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the Tower of Bable - 7/26/2008 5:01:46 PM
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fallenstar
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I don't understand why the tower of Bable was such a problem. If people were buliding a stairway to heaven, you know they can't get there. Eventually, the tower would get so tall it would collapse or they would get too high in altitude and the oxygen would get too thin. They would just hit outerspace and suffocate, if they even make it that far. So why did God care? They would all just be wasting their time anyways.
My theory was that God was angered by their high self-esteem, that they thought they were so mighty that they could reach heaven. No one could really know. I know I could be wrong, and I looked through Genisis 11, NJK V and I could'nt find why the Lord was angry. Did I miss it or somthing, or do just not understand? Why do you think the Tower or Bable was such an issue?
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RE: the Tower of Bable - 7/26/2008 5:43:05 PM
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TrustingGod
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4 Then they said, "Come, let us build ourselves a city, with a tower that reaches to the heavens, so that we may make a name for ourselves and not be scattered over the face of the whole earth." 5 But the LORD came down to see the city and the tower that the men were building. 6 The LORD said, "If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them.
I believe people were thinking way too highly of themselves - and they would eventually worship themselves. Think about man's way of worshipping himself (The Trump Tower comes to mind).
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RE: the Tower of Bable - 7/26/2008 7:35:20 PM
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eaglelady11
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I was thinking of this yesterday. Trusting god hit the nail right one the head, but I want to add that God said that if we spoke all one language, and be unified that we could be like god. To be able to speak the same language we have to be able to humble ourselves, learn to understand each other and be willing to "speak another person's language" which many of us aren't willing to do. so it's almost like a paradox.
the Trump Tower example is perfect!
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RE: the Tower of Bable - 7/26/2008 8:54:08 PM
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colliefan
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They were more interested in a name for themselves than the name of God.
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RE: the Tower of Bable - 7/27/2008 12:02:04 AM
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makarizo
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the tower of babel may have been the beginning of idol worship in the bible.
the bible doesn't say this specifically, but ancient historians say it was erected in honor of baal.
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RE: the Tower of Bable - 7/27/2008 4:30:24 AM
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FurGodWurLivin
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The fun part of the tower of Babel... in Hebrew it means "confusion"... in Chaldean it means "Gate of Heaven".
An interesting theory put forth by Merle Unger is that the Tower of Babel was not constructed with the idea of building a tower so massive you could climb to heaven, but was rather a building that was being constructed specifically for the mystic arts... IE, "let us build a tower that reaches into heaven"
However, there is a second part to this. God's directive to mankind prior to the flood was to populate the earth and take dominion of it. The people at Babel were building the tower so that they wouldn't be scattered over the whole earth. If you think about this, had they succeeded there would have been no Natives in the "New World". To add to the implications of this, the Pilgrims would have died at Plymouth because there wouldn't be anybody there to show them how to grow corn in their new environment. Lewis and Clark would have gotten utterly lost in the Pacific Northwest because Sacajewea wasn't there to guide them. Many of the western settelers would have died from starvation because there was nobody to trade with. It gets a little tedious after a while, doesn't it? But these are two of my favorite theories about Babel.
Adam
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RE: the Tower of Bable - 7/27/2008 9:20:20 AM
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drmark
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quote:
However, there is a second part to this. God's directive to mankind prior to the flood was to populate the earth and take dominion of it. The people at Babel were building the tower so that they wouldn't be scattered over the whole earth. I agree with FGWL that Genesis 9:1 and 7 are clear commands from God with which human efforts at Babel were in direct disobedience. God is never pleased with disobedience and sometimes He acts swiftly and dramatically to end it. Other times, He just let's us learn from the consequences of our sin.
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RE: the Tower of Bable - 7/28/2008 9:30:15 AM
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timf
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the Tower of Babel
Genesis 11:6-7
And the LORD said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do. Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech.
We have a record that God wanted to limit the ability of man to act collectively.
When people recognize what can be accomplished through collective effort, they begin to see their collective selves as as a sort of replacement god. This is what is happening today in our society. The growth of the religion of secularism (the worship of man in general and self in particular) is a result of the indoctrination children have received for the last few generations in public school.
This is part of Satan's plan. Since he cannot be everywhere at once, having mankind order themselves in hierarchical systems greatly aids his ability to leverage his influence of the world.
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RE: the Tower of Bable - 7/28/2008 12:15:37 PM
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cybrjewls
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Greetings! God merely Did the Work in Accordance With His Word to Do by scattering the abroad and confounding their languages and placing the peoples into nation groups all over the earth to populate it in the manner in which He Had Determined. Also, this teaching of ArchiPelago (islands) during the time of Peleg as written was understood by the time of Christopher Colon called Colombus, for the time had come for them to explore the earth and .....
For it is written in The Prophets of God how the nations are like islands in the sea where the beast from the sea comes from among for 1/3 of the angelic beings were cast down to earth for rebellion against God along with lucifer.
quote:
ORIGINAL: fallenstar
I don't understand why the tower of Bable was such a problem. If people were buliding a stairway to heaven, you know they can't get there. Eventually, the tower would get so tall it would collapse or they would get too high in altitude and the oxygen would get too thin. They would just hit outerspace and suffocate, if they even make it that far. So why did God care? They would all just be wasting their time anyways.
My theory was that God was angered by their high self-esteem, that they thought they were so mighty that they could reach heaven. No one could really know. I know I could be wrong, and I looked through Genisis 11, NJK V and I could'nt find why the Lord was angry. Did I miss it or somthing, or do just not understand? Why do you think the Tower or Bable was such an issue?
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RE: the Tower of Bable - 7/28/2008 12:19:07 PM
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drmark
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quote:
This is part of Satan's plan. Since he cannot be everywhere at once, having mankind order themselves in hierarchical systems greatly aids his ability to leverage his influence of the world. How do you reconcile this Romans 13:1-6?
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RE: the Tower of Bable - 7/29/2008 9:50:35 AM
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timf
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This is part of Satan's plan. Since he cannot be everywhere at once, having mankind order themselves in hierarchical systems greatly aids his ability to leverage his influence of the world.
How do you reconcile this Romans 13:1-6?
Nowhere in Romans 13 are hierarchical collective systems praised as being from God. Most of history shows the function of government little changed until the start of the 20th century. Keeping public order, punishing thieves and murderers was pretty much the function of government.
The spread of atheism in the form of communism, national socialism, and the secularism of progressivism and liberalism have worked to make an intrusive and pervasive view of government an acceptable and even "normal" view today. Just because it exists today does not mean that the Bible endorses the concept of government as a replacement god.
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RE: the Tower of Bable - 7/29/2008 10:57:52 AM
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drmark
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quote:
Nowhere in Romans 13 are hierarchical collective systems praised as being from God. Apparently, your definition of government is quite different than mine, timf. I see no way to have effective government without some systematic and collective hierarchy. How and why that hierarchy is used results in praise to God or dishonor of His Name.
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Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: the Tower of Bable - 7/29/2008 1:16:26 PM
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Him4all
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fallenstar,
Your logic is the same logic that I once had concerning the physical imposibility of such a task. But I have now come to another POV concerning that logical assumption.
Adam,
quote:
ORIGINAL: FurGodWurLivin
An interesting theory put forth by Merle Unger is that the Tower of Babel was not constructed with the idea of building a tower so massive you could climb to heaven, but was rather a building that was being constructed specifically for the mystic arts... IE, "let us build a tower that reaches into heaven"
I've also heard a similar teaching in a study bible of mine (The Companion bible/ EW Bullinger). The top of this tower had an astrology tool built into it at the top (eg the constellations of the zodiac/Mazzoroth or something similar).
JOB 38:32 Can you lead forth the Mazzaroth/4216 in their season, or can you guide the Bear with its children? 33 Do you know the ordinances of the heavens? Can you establish their rule on the earth?
4216 mazzarah: some noted constellation (only in the plur.), perh. collect. the zodiac
BTW, the Bear and her children is also known today as 'the big dipper' and its fainter companion 'the little dipper'. Also known in the Hebrew as 'the greater sheepfold' and 'the lessor sheepfold'.
The Tower of Babel's purpose was similar to the 'tower of Dendra' (sp. ?) in Egypt. This was an 'observatory' tower for the purpose of 'unlawfully' prediciting the future through astrology. In other words, let us build a temple whose top is 'unto the heavens' (Plural in the Heb).
Hope this helps.
DR
< Message edited by Him4all -- 7/29/2008 1:27:28 PM >
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RE: the Tower of Bable - 7/29/2008 6:23:09 PM
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rcjones
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One might suggest that the tower of Babel narrative and Jacobs ladder are parallel but opposite narratives.
Jesus is the stone that was rejected, and struck and split.
Jacob laid his head on a stone as a pillow symbolically placing trust or authority in Christ, whereas the others used their hands and works to produce "bricks for stone". Or man made Christs or gods.
The burden of the tower was heavy compared to the light ladder.
The tower never did reach heaven but the ladder bridged the gap.
You also might wish to check out double entendre:
And the whole earth was on a certain brink (point of decision) and of a certain matter. And it came to pass as they departed a pile of ruins (remnants of the flood?) [to the House of God] that they found a breach or divide in the nations of two competing words or messages and they remained there [undecided]. And they promised or vowed man to his companion "Ascribe glory [to us]. Let us make a false Christ and give total devotion in heaven and on earth. And they made a false Christ and they existed for trouble in heaven and on earth.
If the double entendre means anything, it supports the idea that they were starting a false religion.
< Message edited by rcjones -- 7/29/2008 6:38:56 PM >
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RE: the Tower of Bable - 8/1/2008 3:07:39 AM
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VCO
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quote:
ORIGINAL: fallenstar
I don't understand why the tower of Bable was such a problem. If people were buliding a stairway to heaven, you know they can't get there. Eventually, the tower would get so tall it would collapse or they would get too high in altitude and the oxygen would get too thin. They would just hit outerspace and suffocate, if they even make it that far. So why did God care? They would all just be wasting their time anyways.
. . .
U&U
First of all it was a form of Idoletry, the TOWER of Babel was their FOCUS, not God.
Second, they were all staying right there in that ONE spot to build and worship at the TOWER, dispite what God had commanded them to do:
Genesis 1:27-28 (NASB)
27 God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.
28 God blessed them; and God said to them, "Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it; and rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over every living thing that moves on the earth."
Hence, God gave them numerous languages, so that they would NOT stay there, but scatter and settle with those that spoke the same language.
"However, the Tower of Babel was not built for the worship and praise of God, but was dedicated to the glory of man,. . ." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tower_of_Babel
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RE: the Tower of Bable - 8/4/2008 12:42:19 AM
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ironsharpensiron
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A friend and I were discussing this a while back, and came to the conclusion that they were believing themselves to be god's if only they could reach heaven. They were sure full of themselves.
Fast forward centuries later and look at us now...soaring into space, making plans to inhabit other planets, creating clones, artificial life forms, artificial robotic limbs, incredible technologies...and patting ourselves on the back in the process.
Methinks this modern world is the current 'tower of Babel.'
matthew
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