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quantum of solace - 11/18/2008 3:48:31 PM
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jazzact13
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I don't think there's any spoiler material here.
A few weeks ago, I gave in to a bit of curiosity, and from the library checked out an old James Bond movie. It was "You Only Live Twice", and was from the time when Sean Connery was in the role of the super-spy.
So, I took it home, and an evening or two later, watched it. At the end of it, I sat in my chair thinking "Ok, what was the big deal?"
The few times I've heard disucssions about Bond movies, the common opinion seemed to have been that Bond was at his best when Connery was Bond. I haven't watch many Bond movies. I do remember seeing one, I think it was "Live and Let Die", once when I was traveling. It was, if I may be blunt, a rather ridiculous movie. I expected something more from YOLT.
I'm not sure I got it. Oh, it as better, which may not have been all that hard to do, but it was still just very iffy. The character of Bond in the movie was rather unlikeable. He was selfish and chauvinistic (a PC word, I know, but in this case very true), and with little to any emotional display. Even when his first lover in the movie is poisoned and dies while sleeping with him, he didn't show much in the way of regret or grief or consternation.
I've seen the Brosnan Bond movies, and thought them ok. Rather too clean and super-hero-ish, maybe, but the character was at least likeable at time.
So, last week, I took a gander at "Quantum of Solace", and left it rather impressed indeed.
This new Bond is very different from any I've seen in my admittedly limited experience with the movies. Of coures, he wears tuxedoes and nice suits, but they don't seem to be a part of him as much as they were with Brosnan.
There was almost no use of the kind of techno-tricks that seemed common with Brosnan's Bond. No Q to come up with gadgetry. I rather liked that, it keeps the movie from that super-hero type of feel.
Perhaps the best parallel to this Bond that I can think of is to be found in the Tom Clancy novels, in the character of Clark. A kind of stoic, intense, super-competant killer.
Though, really, the character is more involved with that (that same with Clark as well).
This movie is a direct sequel to the last, Casino Royale, and even brings back many of the characters from it. Bond is still in some state of grief over the betrayal and death of his love from CR, Vesper, and still trying to discover what and who is behind it. At the same time, on the outside, he is denying it to others, perhaps even to himself.
Trips to rough and exotic places are, of course, in order. Haiti is shown as a poor and rough place, though I would guess not as much as the reality. There is an important scene in some kind of opera house, which reminded me a bit of scenes from "The Godfather" movies. Things finally come to an end in South America, not counting a short finale in Russia.
One thing that makes Bond hard to like for me is the philandering and womanizing nature of the character. It was present in YOLT and LaLD and in the Brosnan movies, and sadly even here, though this one seems far more interested in his tasks at hand then in flirting. In QoS, there is the obligatory bedroom scene, sadly, though even it was rather downplayed. I rather think they did it almost as an afterthought, as if thinking "Well, we have to, because that's what Bond does".
As opposed to the Bond in YOLT, this one seems to care for the women who cross his path. His feelings for Vesper still haunt him, and he also seems to care for the Argentine woman whom he meets and rescues in Haiti.
And his relationship with M is given some new twists. They disagree and knock heads, as per usual, but they seem to have a true concern for each other.
I'm really liking this new Bond a lot.
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there is no justice in the rhetoric of class hatred
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RE: quantum of solace - 11/18/2008 9:36:55 PM
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aslouie
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I have to concur with your comments with the latest phase of the 007 franchise, having seen more of the original Bond envisioned by Ian Flemming, with a more nuanced, complex plot, real world believability regarding geo-political issues--and I have seen Quatum of Solace this afternoon! 
Something tells me the Daniel Craig version of the Bond movies are less of a stand alone series of stories--as opposed to a more intelligent, dead serious take on the espionage business... which is why I'm starting to like more and more with a reinvigorated interest in the series!
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With fame I became more and more stupid, which of course is a very common phenomenon.
--Albert Einstein
That's hot.
--Paris Hilton
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RE: quantum of solace - 11/24/2008 9:31:24 PM
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iluvatar
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I have yet to see either of Daniel Craig's Bond movies, but with these sort of reviews, my interest is getting piqued.
-Dan.
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Well, I've been to one world fair, a picnic, and a rodeo, and that's the stupidest thing I ever heard come over a set of earphones.
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RE: quantum of solace - 11/24/2008 10:46:57 PM
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9drtr
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Daniel Craig in Casino Royale was more like the Bond of the books than anyone since Sean Connery in From Russia with Love. Definitely worth watching.
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Edwin
When we know who is coming, how can we worry about what is coming? When the last hour belongs to us, how can we worry about the next minute?
Ross Crighton
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RE: quantum of solace - 11/25/2008 7:14:12 PM
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StephK
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I read that they were going back to the beginning with Daniel Craig and that they were basically starting over with the series which would be closer to the books. Spike usually has a Bond marathon once a quarter and it's funny seeing how the effects are so cheesy now but back when the movies first came out they were cutting edge.
< Message edited by StephK -- 11/25/2008 7:24:39 PM >
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The heart of the wise inclines to the right but the heart of the fool to the left.
Even as he walks along the road, the fool lacks sense and shows everyone how stupid he is. ~ Ecc. 10:2-3
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RE: quantum of solace - 11/28/2008 1:22:09 PM
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JoeyWest
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is nice to see Bond back to what he was in books. cold blooded and will kill you as to look at you. the womanizer he became with roger moore was sickening
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FOR THOSE WHO HAVE FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A TASTE THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW.
If today was your last day
and tomorrow was too late
Could you say goodbye to yesterday?
Would you live each moment like your last? "Nickelback"
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RE: quantum of solace - 11/28/2008 1:27:52 PM
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JimC
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JoeyWest
is nice to see Bond back to what he was in books. cold blooded and will kill you as to look at you. the womanizer he became with roger moore was sickening
Sean Connery's Bond wasn't exactly celibate.
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RE: quantum of solace - 11/30/2008 8:01:05 PM
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1love1God1way
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I never read the books so I don't give a rat's behind how close they are to them.
I love the old movies, and not since Goldeneye has a Bond movie FELT like the old classics.
I'm sick of this franchise.
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RE: quantum of solace - 11/30/2008 9:48:53 PM
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JoeyWest
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimC
quote:
ORIGINAL: JoeyWest
is nice to see Bond back to what he was in books. cold blooded and will kill you as to look at you. the womanizer he became with roger moore was sickening
Sean Connery's Bond wasn't exactly celibate.
aye you are right.
with Casino Royale and now Quantum he is becoming what come to expect of a secret agent. cold and ruthless.
1love1god1way, the movies now are prequels to all bond movies. in Casino Royale he wasnt even a 00.
they are going back to a storyline. if try them you might be surprised
_____________________________
FOR THOSE WHO HAVE FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A TASTE THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW.
If today was your last day
and tomorrow was too late
Could you say goodbye to yesterday?
Would you live each moment like your last? "Nickelback"
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RE: quantum of solace - 12/1/2008 2:38:02 PM
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JoeyWest
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Giulia, Daniel Craig's 007 is like I stated earlier. real early in Bond's life. He is brash, violent, hard core and solid. He is the best Bond hands down
_____________________________
FOR THOSE WHO HAVE FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A TASTE THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW.
If today was your last day
and tomorrow was too late
Could you say goodbye to yesterday?
Would you live each moment like your last? "Nickelback"
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RE: quantum of solace - 12/1/2008 2:57:22 PM
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Auben
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Haven't seen the latest installment. We will eventually. I do think the title of this one is rather lame (although nothing quite beats Octopussy as a stupid title).
Basically I agree with the above. Dh and I had read Casino Royale and were pleasantly surprised that this is really an Ian Flemming Bond. Bond is a killer in her majesty's service. You get a bit of that with Connery (he was always cold and had a distinct physical look), but as time went on the series became more interested in the suave David Niven type and the female conquest.
I'm not sure we'll ever see the series go completely Flemming (not sure the culture will allow the violence against women seen in some of the films or the 'helpless sex kitten' roles), but it's an interesting change all the same. One much more able to take on the Bourne movies and other spy-thrillers.
< Message edited by Auben -- 12/1/2008 3:03:22 PM >
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Tamara
~Everywhere is walking distance if you have the time~
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RE: quantum of solace - 12/1/2008 7:27:45 PM
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aslouie
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Auben
Haven't seen the latest installment. We will eventually. I do think the title of this one is rather lame (although nothing quite beats Octopussy as a stupid title).
Basically I agree with the above. Dh and I had read Casino Royale and were pleasantly surprised that this is really an Ian Flemming Bond. Bond is a killer in her majesty's service. You get a bit of that with Connery (he was always cold and had a distinct physical look), but as time went on the series became more interested in the suave David Niven type and the female conquest.
I'm not sure we'll ever see the series go completely Flemming (not sure the culture will allow the violence against women seen in some of the films or the 'helpless sex kitten' roles), but it's an interesting change all the same. One much more able to take on the Bourne movies and other spy-thrillers.
It's also interesting to note that I recalled some time back, that when Connery became 007, he was in some subconscious way, a sort of nostalgia for UK prestige, as in back in the days when The British Empire never seemed to set, until of course, the two world wars bankrupted it (financially). And right around the time the first Bond movie came out, that's when the "Playboy philosophy" came into vogue, to sort of correlate the cultural/geo-political situation called the sexual revolution and The Cold War.
So yeah, in a way, seeing Her Majesty's best secret serviceman is trying to reclaim its Union Jack, Imperial glory via Freudian ways (like the old "Flashman" pulp novels), i.e. the sort of bedroom activity that generation's Pope denounced!
_____________________________
With fame I became more and more stupid, which of course is a very common phenomenon.
--Albert Einstein
That's hot.
--Paris Hilton
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RE: quantum of solace - 12/2/2008 5:23:37 AM
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Giulia
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quote:
Giulia, Daniel Craig's 007 is like I stated earlier. real early in Bond's life. He is brash, violent, hard core and solid. He is the best Bond hands down
My decision was based on time. Bond film started a little earlier while the burn after reading started later. I haven't seen this guy Daniel Craig so I can't say. Just that I am often the odd one out and often I don't agree with the general consensus. Solid and hard core ois good. Don't like violent and brash though.
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RE: quantum of solace - 12/2/2008 12:26:50 PM
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Auben
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Interesting, Aslouie (as always). So what do you think the popularity is for the US then? I always read the usual male fantasies of power and machismo into it but never much national psychology.
It is more violent, Giulia. It's on the line for me. If the series gets much more violent I won't watch it, but it's still equitable with many in the action/thriller range.
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Tamara
~Everywhere is walking distance if you have the time~
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RE: quantum of solace - 12/2/2008 5:14:53 PM
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aslouie
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Auben
Interesting, Aslouie (as always). So what do you think the popularity is for the US then? I always read the usual male fantasies of power and machismo into it but never much national psychology.
It is more violent, Giulia. It's on the line for me. If the series gets much more violent I won't watch it, but it's still equitable with many in the action/thriller range.
Hmmm... I would guess that in spite of America's growing preeminence as a global superpower, I still find it strange that many American males still want to embody the classy--yet commercialized/oft-campy persona that is 007, maybe in part to the whole post-modernist "thing" going on then until possibly 9-11, i.e. disenchantment with suburbia, the failed/disillusionment of the sexual revolution (at least in my mind), and of course, the need to resort to these far-fetched fantasies, sexual and/or otherwise, that puts guys in both a collective and individual level, to compel themselves in this Willy Loman-esque, quixotic quest to pursue that James Bond ideal--even if it's not specifically as a secret agent, gadgets and all. I guess it's a no brainer to see why Spike TV is now the new home for the whole James Bond franchise (being it is advertised as the network for men, in the Maxim magazine/post-feminist age).
As for the violence, I guess it's been said on numerous occasions that the Daniel Craig version is trying to adapt, or more accurately, copy the sort of "cinema verite," MTV-styled (pseudo-) arthouse chic of cinematography, where I suppose jerky handheld camera shots, coupled with the rapid moving, hand held pan shots simulates a sort of attention-deficit disorder feel, where the audience (at least by today's generational standards) needs constant, non-stop action without so much as a breather for (contemplative, quiet time with God) silence. That's my metafictional/metanarrative, psychological take on the latest style on enhancing film violence.
_____________________________
With fame I became more and more stupid, which of course is a very common phenomenon.
--Albert Einstein
That's hot.
--Paris Hilton
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RE: quantum of solace - 12/3/2008 8:18:38 AM
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jazzact13
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If you can handle the action and fighting in something like "The Bourne Supremacy", then "Quantum of Solace" shouldn't be a problem. Yes, there is plenty of fighting, but I don't think it was gratuitious, nor was it horror-movie gory.
Watched 'From Russia with Love' a couple of evenings ago, and while there were some glimpses of soemthing similar to the latest Bond, there was still more than a bit of the objectification of women by him in that movie, too.
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there is no justice in the rhetoric of class hatred
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RE: quantum of solace - 12/3/2008 1:49:46 PM
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Auben
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Bonus points for using the term 'Willy Loman-esque.'
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Tamara
~Everywhere is walking distance if you have the time~
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RE: quantum of solace - 12/3/2008 3:46:10 PM
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JP67
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I've never been a huge Bond fan but DH is. He has not cared for the last 2. He actually mentioned to me he was done with Bond considering how they are making them now. I've not seen the most recent one so I can't comment personally. I will say I didn't realize they were based on books (told ya I wasn't a fan lol) and I'll mention that to DH. Maybe he'll read them and then do a comparison.
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RE: quantum of solace - 12/3/2008 7:20:41 PM
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9drtr
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BTW, "Octopussy" and "Quantum of Solace" are the titles of short stories that involve James Bond, as are "From a View to Kill" and "For Your Eyes Only." They actually make sense as the titles of those stories.
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Edwin
When we know who is coming, how can we worry about what is coming? When the last hour belongs to us, how can we worry about the next minute?
Ross Crighton
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RE: quantum of solace - 12/4/2008 12:52:55 AM
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aslouie
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Auben
Bonus points for using the term 'Willy Loman-esque.'
Maybe I should include Walter Mitty-esque!
_____________________________
With fame I became more and more stupid, which of course is a very common phenomenon.
--Albert Einstein
That's hot.
--Paris Hilton
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RE: quantum of solace - 12/4/2008 10:16:57 PM
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Auben
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Aslouie, you amuse me.
Walter Mitty would also work in the context.
I think Walter Mitty gave us the glitter that hid the dim reality, while Willy Loman did the opposite. It gave us the dirty reality while obfuscating the glittering fantasy he lived by.
Spike tv indeed. I think they like Mitty a bit better...with judo, a handheld camera, women with damaged psyches because their fathers named them sexual innuendos and all.
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Tamara
~Everywhere is walking distance if you have the time~
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RE: quantum of solace - 12/7/2008 3:05:32 PM
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wshepherd
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Saw the new Casino Royale. It's the first Bond movie I ever liked, so I guess that means I will go see Quantum of Solace. Daniel Craig's Bond is killer.
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"You will either be a good example or a horrible warning."
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RE: quantum of solace - 12/10/2008 6:27:32 PM
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ManimalX
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QoS reminds me much more of a Borne Idnetity type of film than any other Bond film I have seen (which, granted, isn't many). Gone is the high-tech gadgetry, the tricked out car (except for a good opening chase scene), over the top bad guys, and most of the overplayed sexcapades. Craig's bond is less suave, more elemental force. The one time he uses his "charm" to seduce another female agent, he is not only chastised for it, but seems to get the point that it was wrong.
QoS is a much more intense and solemn Bond film. I would never call it the best film I have ever seen, but it was an intriguing spy flick that was an entertaining watch.
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"But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a roar, and the heavenly bodies will be burned up and dissolved, and the earth and the works that are done on it will be exposed." - 2nd Peter 3:10
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. I went to watch a movie with the guy who is doing my editing and he wanted to see "Quantum of Solace" but he didn't say he didn't want to see " Burn After Reading". He didn't make up his mind and I was getting quite impatient so i made an executive decision and we went to see "Burn After Reading" which I disliked after all that 
. I would like to see "Quantum of Solace" because now I am curious, even though the guy in it seems totally foreign to the film. Like he doesn't look really smoooth like Bond is supposed to look. Perhaps I will change my mind when I see it.
