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mysterious figure in Ezekiel 9:2? - 8/27/2008 7:37:21 PM
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cantckaja
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it talks about a man clothed in linen with a writing case. God tells him to wipe out some people so he does. It is prophecy about the destruction of Israel so I kind of think it is meant to be Nebuchanezzar. Thoughts?
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RE: mysterious figure in Ezekiel 9:2? - 8/27/2008 8:03:20 PM
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cantckaja
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just to add to this - after he's done he tells God he did as God wanted. Kind of reminds me of Satan in Job - an evil figure doing God's will, thats why it probably has me thinking of Nebuchandezzar. Let me know if I'm way off base.
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RE: mysterious figure in Ezekiel 9:2? - 8/28/2008 9:41:41 AM
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sparkleingsnow
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I don't think it's Nebuchanezzar. The Bible doesn't say who is was. But for one thing, God told him to put a mark on the men who mourned for the wickedness of the city, so that they would be saved. Why would God use an evil person to mark the people who still worshipped the Lord to save them?
For another thing, the man was dressed in linen. Linen seems to be used in places in the Bible to represent holyness and purity. That would hardly apply to Nebuchadnezzar, King of Babylon.
The Lord used Nebuchadnezzar to punish Israel and Judah, not to save some.
In the prophecy of Ezekiel who were the men who came down, and the one dressed in linen? I don't know. Was it the men who were in charge of the city? Or was it angels? I don't know the answer, and as far as I can tell God's word doesn't say. But I don't think it could be Nebuchadnezzar.
_____________________________
Bless the Lord, O my soul: and all that is
within me, bless his holy name.
Psalm 103:1
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RE: mysterious figure in Ezekiel 9:2? - 8/28/2008 3:19:25 PM
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sparkleingsnow
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cantckaja, I'm thinking you might get more responses to your question in the theology forum.
God Bless.
_____________________________
Bless the Lord, O my soul: and all that is
within me, bless his holy name.
Psalm 103:1
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RE: mysterious figure in Ezekiel 9:2? - 8/28/2008 10:32:13 PM
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RJR_fan
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quote:
it talks about a man clothed in linen with a writing case. God tells him to wipe out some people so he does.
Actually, this angel marks the godly for preservation. Satan is an imitator, and a shoddy one at that. God's mark upon our forehead and right hand is our study of, and obedience to, His Word. That's the mark worth thinking about!
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The future has never been shaped by majorities but rather by dedicated minorities. And free men do not wait for the future; they create it. RJR
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RE: mysterious figure in Ezekiel 9:2? - 8/29/2008 12:25:46 AM
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LCannon
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Probably 'the man' Ezekiel is writing about is himself as narrator. He's observing the removal of 'Shekinah glory', the presence of Jehovah's Glory/Power from the temple and Israel. 'In Ezekiel 9 the Shekinah glory prepares to leave the temple at Jerusalem. I believe that from the days of Manasseh there was the coming and going of the Shekinah glory. God is merciful; He doesn’t, in a petulant mood, give up on people. God is longsuffering and not willing that any should perish.'(JV McGee)
_____________________________
"It may be that when the angels go about their task of praising God they play
only Bach. I am sure, however, that when they are together en famille they
play Mozart and then too our dear Lord listens with special pleasure."(Karl Barth)
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RE: mysterious figure in Ezekiel 9:2? - 8/29/2008 5:41:37 AM
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Tagurit
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LCannon, what a coincidence...I just finished that chapter in McGee's study. After re-reading this chapter, I think that this figure is either Ezekiel or an angel. I liked the correlation McGee made about accountability between the Israelites then and the Body of Believers now. Even then the Israelites were identified with God and how bad was the judgement against them for their rejection of God. It stops and makes one think of those who are in & around Church now and have rejected Christ......
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RE: mysterious figure in Ezekiel 9:2? - 8/29/2008 12:24:31 PM
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LCannon
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Read earlier(McGee), ch 8:16-(even earlier), Tag. That reminds of John's Revelation. The narrator(Ezekiel?)'sees' six angels(ch. 9). Regardless of who definitively, McGee makes the book(and the Minor prophets and prophecy generally)less intimidating.
_____________________________
"It may be that when the angels go about their task of praising God they play
only Bach. I am sure, however, that when they are together en famille they
play Mozart and then too our dear Lord listens with special pleasure."(Karl Barth)
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RE: mysterious figure in Ezekiel 9:2? - 8/29/2008 5:36:18 PM
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Kath
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Moving from General Faith to Prophecy/End Times
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RE: mysterious figure in Ezekiel 9:2? - 8/29/2008 10:40:03 PM
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Sinner-Saint
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Let me suggest a name which might shock and surprise you: John.
If you want, I can give some reasons why I think it is him.
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RE: mysterious figure in Ezekiel 9:2? - 8/29/2008 11:18:18 PM
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.IC.
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G'day,,
Hi Sinner-Saint, i would like to hear what you have to say about John being this figure in Ezek.
yours In Christ,,
God Bless
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HOLY, HOLY, HOLY, Lord God Almighty-
which was, and is, and is to come.
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RE: mysterious figure in Ezekiel 9:2? - 8/30/2008 1:47:34 AM
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Sinner-Saint
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When John is taken up to the realm of Heaven (literally an inter-dimensional door to another physical plane of existence overlying ours not bounded by just three dimensions of space and a single dimension of time and thus having spiritual ramifications as well) he has a writing kit.
We can know this not only because of the good reporting John does of everything he does see in the Temple of God in Heaven in Revelation chapters four and five, but later on as Rev 10:4 indicates, John is writing information down.
Now, let me ask you: When John was told to measure the Temple, where are those measurements? Are we ever told in Revelation what they will be? But what about in Ezekiel? In Ezekiel 40:3. This figure Ezekiel sees he says is a "man."
Does Ezekiel in fact "see" John measuring the Temple as John is told to do in Revelation 11?
God has no problem as indicated in the Bible to have others do His work. That is actually the way it's supposed to be.
On the Day of the Lord, when Jesus and His army rout the Northern (Gog/Magog) forces which have occupied Israel since the midpoint invasion (when the King of the North encamps around Jerusalem prior to entering the Temple) He will also cleanse Israel of those Jews who have done evil in His sight. This centers around the Abomination which had been previously erected at the midpoint.
The time in which those who are killed haven't mourned has been the Abomination and the resulting Great Tribulation. Remember, only 1/3 of the Jews will survive the one 'seven' and so pass alive into the Millennium.
The OT Wrath associated with the Day of the Lord has God raising His Hand against His people (Isa 5:25).
Therefore, as part of the cleansing of Israel which God is doing on the second half of the Day of the Lord, He is going to wash the Land of Israel in blood, fire and smoke. All three are used to "cleanse."
Likewise, when Jesus enters the Temple, it and Jerusalem will have to cleansed.
This is what is going on in Ezekiel 9.
Ezekiel sees a man with a writing kit. John has one. As far as I can tell, other than Enoch and Elijah, these are the only two men to go up into Heaven. (Now we have 24 Elders too, but Jesus did lead captives in His train when He ascended into Heaven and He first ascended on His day of resurrection. In Zechariah 3, you can read about men wondered at who are with Jesus. These I think are the Elders. Indeed, by the time John sees them at the end of times, they have been there for nearly 2000 years.) I do not think Paul ascended to Heaven, but the man he was talking about did. Paul was contemporary to John in Israel, and it is likely they met.
Furthermore, John is a faithful servant. He does what he is told well. The man in Ezekiel 9 is unerring in his task.
When dealing with a timeless place like Heaven, it is entirely possible for God to bring two people together who live in different centuries.
Just food for thought.
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RE: mysterious figure in Ezekiel 9:2? - 8/31/2008 9:15:02 PM
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Retrobyter
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Shalom, Sinner-Saint.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Sinner-Saint
When John is taken up to the realm of Heaven (literally an inter-dimensional door to another physical plane of existence overlying ours not bounded by just three dimensions of space and a single dimension of time and thus having spiritual ramifications as well) he has a writing kit.
We can know this not only because of the good reporting John does of everything he does see in the Temple of God in Heaven in Revelation chapters four and five, but later on as Rev 10:4 indicates, John is writing information down.
Now, let me ask you: When John was told to measure the Temple, where are those measurements? Are we ever told in Revelation what they will be? But what about in Ezekiel? In Ezekiel 40:3. This figure Ezekiel sees he says is a "man."
Does Ezekiel in fact "see" John measuring the Temple as John is told to do in Revelation 11?
God has no problem as indicated in the Bible to have others do His work. That is actually the way it's supposed to be.
On the Day of the Lord, when Jesus and His army rout the Northern (Gog/Magog) forces which have occupied Israel since the midpoint invasion (when the King of the North encamps around Jerusalem prior to entering the Temple) He will also cleanse Israel of those Jews who have done evil in His sight. This centers around the Abomination which had been previously erected at the midpoint.
The time in which those who are killed haven't mourned has been the Abomination and the resulting Great Tribulation. Remember, only 1/3 of the Jews will survive the one 'seven' and so pass alive into the Millennium.
The OT Wrath associated with the Day of the Lord has God raising His Hand against His people (Isa 5:25).
Therefore, as part of the cleansing of Israel which God is doing on the second half of the Day of the Lord, He is going to wash the Land of Israel in blood, fire and smoke. All three are used to "cleanse."
Likewise, when Jesus enters the Temple, it and Jerusalem will have to cleansed.
This is what is going on in Ezekiel 9.
Ezekiel sees a man with a writing kit. John has one. As far as I can tell, other than Enoch and Elijah, these are the only two men to go up into Heaven. (Now we have 24 Elders too, but Jesus did lead captives in His train when He ascended into Heaven and He first ascended on His day of resurrection. In Zechariah 3, you can read about men wondered at who are with Jesus. These I think are the Elders. Indeed, by the time John sees them at the end of times, they have been there for nearly 2000 years.) I do not think Paul ascended to Heaven, but the man he was talking about did. Paul was contemporary to John in Israel, and it is likely they met.
Furthermore, John is a faithful servant. He does what he is told well. The man in Ezekiel 9 is unerring in his task.
When dealing with a timeless place like Heaven, it is entirely possible for God to bring two people together who live in different centuries.
Just food for thought.
Wow. When you said, "When John is taken up to the realm of Heaven (literally an inter-dimensional door to another physical plane of existence overlying ours not bounded by just three dimensions of space and a single dimension of time and thus having spiritual ramifications as well) he has a writing kit," it brought back memories.
I used to be so cerebral as to make such statements. Then, I discovered that I didn't NEED to get so cerebral! God's word makes PERFECT SENSE in a literal interpretation of Scripture without succumbing to the weird points of view from those who are trying to make their words palatable to the intelligencia of our time. Don't fall prey to this fallacy.
Second, when one uses certain terms in Scripture, it is important that we take the basic etymology of the word rather than the wide, ethereal, mystic definitions of that word.
For instance, it is not necessary to think of "heaven" as some ethereal, "spiritual" place far away called "Heaven"; most (if not all) of what we read about heaven should really be interpreted with the word translated "sky" instead of "heaven."
Another such word is the word "angel." This is a transliterated word (from the Greek word "aggelos" meaning "messenger") that really should have been translated "messenger" and should be thought of as a HUMAN messenger.
Now, you MAY be right in thinking that Yechezk'el (Ezekiel) saw Yochanan (John) from the future, but I think a simpler understanding is implied. The ones who wore linen in the Tanakh (the OT) were the PRIESTS! I believe we are simply seeing a scribe from the cohanim (priestly order) or the L'vi'im (Levites), especially in light of the fact that he is seeing God's sh'kinah (presence) move from the keruv ("cherub") above the mercy seat to the threshold of the Holy Place, a place wherein the cohanim alone were to serve.
As I've said before, the man Paul knew over 14 years earlier, whether himself or another such as Yochanan, was NOT "caught UP" to "Heaven"; he was "snatched away" (Greek: "harpazo") to the third "Sky!" That is the sky or atmosphere around the third earth that Kefa ("Cephas" or Peter) describes in II Peter 3:13 below. It is that atmosphere surrounding the New Earth after the global Fire (as opposed to the global Flood) upon which the Yerushalayim Chadashah (New Jerusalem) lands. Yerushalayim Chadashah is also called the "Paradeisos" (transliterated "Paradise" meaning "Park" or "Orchard") of God. (Rev. 2:7 cf. Rev. 22:2)
2 Peter 3:3-13
3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: (first "heaven" or sky and first earth)
6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, (second "heaven" or sky and second earth) by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, (third "heaven" or sky and third earth) wherein dwelleth righteousness.
KJV
Hope this makes things a little clearer. We don't have to go wild with our theories to make sense of God's Word.
Retrobyter
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RE: mysterious figure in Ezekiel 9:2? - 9/2/2008 9:03:53 AM
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sparkleingsnow
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I think the bottom line is that the Bible doesn't say, so while we might guess, we don't know.
_____________________________
Bless the Lord, O my soul: and all that is
within me, bless his holy name.
Psalm 103:1
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RE: mysterious figure in Ezekiel 9:2? - 9/3/2008 1:10:08 AM
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whisperingwaters
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Well Sinner-Saint I find your thoughts interesting and it makes me wonder if when we do get to heaven if we will be able to "travel time" obviously John did so we might be able to also.
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The words of a man's mouth are as deep waters, and the well-spring of wisdom as a flowing brook. Proverbs 18:4
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RE: mysterious figure in Ezekiel 9:2? - 9/3/2008 10:46:20 AM
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MichaelTheeArchAngel
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The person dressed in white with a writing kit is Yahshua. He is the Lamb who is worthy of opening the book.
quote:
ORIGINAL: cantckaja
it talks about a man clothed in linen with a writing case. God tells him to wipe out some people so he does. It is prophecy about the destruction of Israel so I kind of think it is meant to be Nebuchanezzar. Thoughts?
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RE: mysterious figure in Ezekiel 9:2? - 9/3/2008 11:06:59 AM
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Tagurit
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Although I believe Pre-incarnate Christ appears many times in the OT, I don't think that He is represented in Ezek 9:2.
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RE: mysterious figure in Ezekiel 9:2? - 9/7/2008 10:28:05 PM
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Retrobyter
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Shalom, MichaelTheArchAngel.
You said,
quote:
ORIGINAL: MichaelTheeArchAngel
The person dressed in white with a writing kit is Yahshua. He is the Lamb who is worthy of opening the book.
Hmmm.... In Ezekiel 9:2???!!! No, I don't think so. That is really a stretch! Furthermore, it is totally unnecessary to make that assumption.
Retrobyter
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RE: mysterious figure in Ezekiel 9:2? - 9/8/2008 12:58:51 PM
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LoyalGypsy
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cantckaja
just to add to this - after he's done he tells God he did as God wanted. Kind of reminds me of Satan in Job - an evil figure doing God's will, thats why it probably has me thinking of Nebuchandezzar. Let me know if I'm way off base.
quote:
Ezekiel 9:2
Greetings,
quote:
after he's done he tells God he did as God wanted
First of all that’s not what it said, and one pays closer attention to Ezekiel 9:2 verse 10...the key to the beginning of the book of revelation is that 1 man was the only one who did as the Lord commanded..
…There is nothing to indicate that God wanted anyone one dead….
…..because the command to find a repenting heart is seen in verse 3-4 and that command was issued before the others went out to destroy.
= And “He called”… to the man clothed with linen, who had the writer's inkhorn at his side; 4 and the Lord said to him, … "Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and put a mark on the foreheads of the men who sigh and cry over all the abominations that are done within it."
….so the command to mark was an “outer expression” here in Eze 9 as the mark on the forehead dictates an outer expression,
and furthermore expresses being covered; not saved… in the words in verse 4 …and…. as we see here in verse Exek 9:5 To the others He said in my hearing, "Go ..after.. him” through the city and kill;
……..And that Spirit…. or Gods intention is reflected here in like manner in the NC; here in the Gospel account in Luke 9:54-56 ……..but the mark or the covering for those who are Christ’s is not an outer it is now inner salvation!
And if we pay attention to the shadows in Eze 9, the man clothed with linen who did as God commanded him and went out to mark (cover) the repentant… this man in the Gospel account… is Jesus
But the interesting part in this prophecy rides the definite likeness of this shadow in the OT of Ezek 9 being revealed in Christ in the NT ….and by moving forward by the descriptions in the rest of the passage in Ezek 9 reveals, the rest reveals unto us the Great tribulation
So if the type and shadow are consistent in Ezek 9 being revealed in Christ in the NT…. then in like manner Jesus will also come again as the Father will command Him to take with Him back to the Father those who are marked (not covered…. but saved!!)….before the killing begins in the tribulation.
Here is the order of things…
1 The first advent dictates clearly in Jesus own words… as seen in Ezek9 verse 10 …where we see that the man (Jesus) returned to God “alone”… to report… all that God had commanded was done!
…by reason…this was because the mark was an outer expression for the OT saints …not the inner…the inner came “after” Jesus left!! …Therefore….
the man in linen reported to God alone…
And that is seen here in Joh 13:33 and
36 Simon Peter said to Him, "Lord, where are You going?" Jesus answered him, "Where I am going you cannot follow Me now, but you shall follow Me afterward.
2 In the Second Advent there is nothing holding the Saints to the earth…and if the pattern is going to be the same as written in Ezek 9! ….when the order goes out…in like manner as in Eze 9….God will send the man in linen first… not to mark… but to gather those who are marked (, but you shall follow Me afterward) inwardly….and will be “taken out” of the way of the destroyers!
Whereas in Exe 9 11 Just then, the man clothed with linen, who had the inkhorn at his side, reported back and said, "I have done as You commanded… “me."
………The SC prophecy dictates that when the man reports back to Father after being called the second time it is WITH his Saints…not alone!
Jude 1:14 - Show Context
Now Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men also, saying, "Behold, the Lord comes ““with”” ten thousands of His saints,
1Th 3:13 - Show Context
so that He may establish your hearts blameless in holiness before our God and Father at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ “”with”” all His saints.
quote:
after he's done he tells God he did as God wanted
So can you see why the use of the word "wanted"... was not consistent? 
LG
_____________________________
Ex 19:5 Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice
...So the Persians ask that the 300 drop their arms. Leonidas responds; "Persians! Come and get them!"
300 The Movie
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RE: mysterious figure in Ezekiel 9:2? - 9/8/2008 6:05:19 PM
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Sinner-Saint
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quote:
ORIGINAL: whisperingwaters
it makes me wonder if when we do get to heaven if we will be able to "travel time" obviously John did so we might be able to also.
Thanks for the compliment; I'm glad a thought of mine opened up some possibilities in your thinking.
I have been wondering about time in Heaven. I wonder if we can truly understand it with our limiting experience with our linear time. For us, time is always present, always progressing and never ending.
What if in Heaven, God has ordered His Realm with two, or even three-dimensions of time?
Could we presently comprehend how our timeless God could control or manipulate time? Obviously time is very important because God gave us cycles to measure time, and God has a plan which is timed precisely, I would refer the reader to Hosea 6:1-3 for an example of Psalm 90:4 and 2Pe 3:8.
I don't know that we will 'time travel' as much as it is possible for God to bring different time lines together - that is, He can overlap two individual's "present-perspective" so that they occur simultaneously in Heaven. God can also "show" someone the future.
I would love to learn about the past, how things came to be. I was just out West, and I would love to know how the geography was formed. Wouldn't it be great to hear about all the creatures which God created and why?
It's nice to know we'll have an eternity to come to know an infinite God.
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