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RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread - 10/27/2008 12:45:43 AM
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Him4all
Posts: 479
Joined: 6/26/2007
From: Kansas
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Misty35,
First off, I want to say I don't think you owe anyone an apology...certainly not me. I think we all post according to what we believe is the truth and that's what you did. Actually, it was refreshing to hear that you changed your mind concerning what you used to believe. That happens so little, I sometimes wonder what good it's does to keep posting here.
As to your questions, I too can only answer as 'I believe the truth to be'. Be assured others won't agree, and I'm sure we'll hear from them too. Having said that let me tell you what I think happens...and what happened to you. When you first spoke in tongues I believe it was your spirit receiving the release to speak 'through your body' and bypassing your soul/mind/understanding. I think that is the initial 'tongue' spoken, and it is for personal edification. I don't even think (???) it's 'the gift' of The Holy Spirit, I think your spirit always had a language and our initial encounter with The Spirit triggers that Sspiritual release as The Spirit bears witness with our spirit.
After you have experienced the release (the ability of your spirit to speak, without your intellect being involved) I think you are then capable of actually moving in the 'gift of tongues' that is mentioned in chapter 12 of first Corinthians. That 'gift of tongues' isn't your prayer tongue and it isn't from your spirit. And it isn't one you can 'do at your will' whenever you want to either. It's just like the other 'gifts' of The Spirit in that regard. And those gifts aren't really for your benefit, they are for ministry purposes to 'others'. They are only manifested through you by "The Holy Spirit as He wills"...AND if you obey by yielding your physical tongue to God's Spirit (just as you yield your physical tongue to your spirit). It's done in the same way that we yield to the Spirit's unction to lay hands for 'healing', or speak a supernatural word of 'knowledge' or 'wisdom' ect ect with all 9 gifts.
But I think, and I'm really not sure, that when scripture is talking about 'praying for the power to interpret', that it is talking about the power to understand what your spirit is praying in tongues. So, I'm curious as to whether the "three powerful interpretations " that you received might agree with that POV...or not.  What do you think? That's the only way I've experienced it and scripture isn't clear enough for me to be dogmatic about it.
quote:
as far as making myself actually speak in tongues like right now, I cant. Personally, I don't think it's because you can't, but I'm not sure why you don't, either. I do think we 'control' whether or not we speak in either tongue (our spirit's or The Spirit's). And I don't think that it's "to a point" like you said...but totally. Neither our spirit nor The Spirit possesses us to speak either tongue without our 'willful yielding' to them.
That's quite a bit for now, so I'll just sit back and wait for a response.
DR
_____________________________
When you violate LOVE you violate GOD.
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RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread - 10/27/2008 6:45:43 PM
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wacotton
Posts: 751
Joined: 4/11/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: misty35
quote:
ORIGINAL: twincities
acts 19:2 “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?” he asked them.
“No,” they replied, “we haven’t even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.”
3 “Then what baptism did you experience?” he asked.
And they replied, “The baptism of John.”
4 Paul said, “John’s baptism called for repentance from sin. But John himself told the people to believe in the one who would come later, meaning Jesus.”
5 As soon as they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 Then when Paul laid his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in other tongues and prophesied. 7 There were about twelve men in all.
food for thought.
Meaning....John's baptism was a sign of repentance from sin only, not a sign of new life in Christ. Like Apollos (18:24-26), these Ephesian believers needed further instruction on the message and ministry of Jesus Christ. They believed in Jesus as the Messiah, but they did not understand the significance of His death and resurrection or the work of the Holy Spirit. Becoming a Christian involves turning from sin (repentance) and turning to Christ (faith). These "believers" were incomplete. In the book of Acts, believers received the Holy Spirit in a variety of ways. Usually the Holy Spirit would fill a person as soon as he or she professed faith in Christ. Here that filling happened later because these disciples' knowledge was incomplete. God was confirming to these believers, who did not initially know about the Holy Spirit, that they were a part of the church. The Holy Spirit's filling endorsed them as believers.
If you read Acts 8 you will see that there were believers who were already baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus upon whom the Holy Spirit had not yet fallen. I find it inconsistant with the rest of scripture to think that these people were not true believers. The apostles as far as I can tell did not baptize non-believers in the name of Jesus.
< Message edited by wacotton -- 10/27/2008 6:57:57 PM >
_____________________________
Bill Cotton
2 Corinthians 3:6
Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
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RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread - 10/27/2008 6:51:32 PM
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wacotton
Posts: 751
Joined: 4/11/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Him4all
Misty35,
quote:
...please know, there is a HUGE difference between speaking in tongues, which is from the Holy Spirit (not man) directly to God...
Hello Misty, may I point out something I disagree with in your above quote? It is part of what we've been talking about: There is a huge difference between 'your spirit' praying in 'spiritual tongues' to God and 'God The Holy Spirit' speaking through 'a man/tongue' to men ...(man meaning mankind not 'only males' ). What you quote above concerning 'Holy Spirit prayer to God' would mean God is praying to God....what for??? I don't think that's true for The Holy Spirit, like it was for Jesus, who gave up "equality with God" 'partly' to be an example for us. I hope this doesn't start another big debate.
1CO 14:14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.
What I say above is part of the 'two tongues' issue which may apparently even be something for you to think about too. 
DR
Another verse is in chapter 12:10 where Paul writes of "divers kinds of tongues" which supports the concept of different types of tongues. Also in 1 Corinthians 14 Paul speaks of one type of tongue that no man understandeth and anther which requires an interpretation.
_____________________________
Bill Cotton
2 Corinthians 3:6
Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
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RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread - 10/27/2008 6:56:01 PM
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wacotton
Posts: 751
Joined: 4/11/2005
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Sammy,
There is nothing in 1 Corinthians 14 to suggest that the Corinthians were speaking gibberish as you claim. The passage merely states that they were speaking in tongues without an interpretation in the church. Also note that Paul doesn't tell them not to do it if there is no interpretation but says not to do it in chuch but tells them to do it alone with God. If what they were doing was fake Paul would not have told them to do it alone.
_____________________________
Bill Cotton
2 Corinthians 3:6
Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
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RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread - 10/27/2008 7:32:13 PM
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misty35
Posts: 614
Joined: 9/22/2008
From: Arkansas
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: wacotton
quote:
ORIGINAL: misty35
quote:
ORIGINAL: twincities
acts 19:2 “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?” he asked them.
“No,” they replied, “we haven’t even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.”
3 “Then what baptism did you experience?” he asked.
And they replied, “The baptism of John.”
4 Paul said, “John’s baptism called for repentance from sin. But John himself told the people to believe in the one who would come later, meaning Jesus.”
5 As soon as they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 Then when Paul laid his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in other tongues and prophesied. 7 There were about twelve men in all.
food for thought.
Meaning....John's baptism was a sign of repentance from sin only, not a sign of new life in Christ. Like Apollos (18:24-26), these Ephesian believers needed further instruction on the message and ministry of Jesus Christ. They believed in Jesus as the Messiah, but they did not understand the significance of His death and resurrection or the work of the Holy Spirit. Becoming a Christian involves turning from sin (repentance) and turning to Christ (faith). These "believers" were incomplete. In the book of Acts, believers received the Holy Spirit in a variety of ways. Usually the Holy Spirit would fill a person as soon as he or she professed faith in Christ. Here that filling happened later because these disciples' knowledge was incomplete. God was confirming to these believers, who did not initially know about the Holy Spirit, that they were a part of the church. The Holy Spirit's filling endorsed them as believers.
If you read Acts 8 you will see that there were believers who were already baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus upon whom the Holy Spirit had not yet fallen. I find it inconsistant with the rest of scripture to think that these people were not true believers. The apostles as far as I can tell did not baptize non-believers in the name of Jesus.
Im not sure if you are directing that at me or twincities, but my post came straight out of the Bible.
_____________________________
"For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind." 2 Timothy 1:7 
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RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread - 10/27/2008 7:40:21 PM
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Him4all
Posts: 479
Joined: 6/26/2007
From: Kansas
Status: offline
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wacotton,
quote:
Another verse is in chapter 12:10 where Paul writes of "divers kinds of tongues" which supports the concept of different types of tongues. Also in 1 Corinthians 14 Paul speaks of one type of tongue that no man understandeth and anther which requires an interpretation.
Thanks Bill, I hadn't thought of the "divers kinds of tongues" before in that light. It would make sense to us of course, but those who don't believe would probably just say that means the different kinds of 'earthly tongues'. Oh well. 
DR
_____________________________
When you violate LOVE you violate GOD.
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RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread - 10/28/2008 9:30:42 AM
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rcjames
Posts: 5782
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: wacotton
Another verse is in chapter 12:10 where Paul writes of "divers kinds of tongues" which supports the concept of different types of tongues. Also in 1 Corinthians 14 Paul speaks of one type of tongue that no man understandeth and anther which requires an interpretation.
Correct, "Diverse kinds of tongues" are well mentioned in 1 Cor. 14.
(1Co 14:2) For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.
Since this one is speaking unto God I rekon that is preyer tongues.
(1Co 14:12,13) Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church. Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.
This would seem to be God speaking to man, and as such would need interpretation.
Then there is the following;
(1Co 14:14,15) For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful. What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.
Praying and singing in tongues, since they are man speaking to God then there is no need for public interpretation. This verse seems to promote promote praying and singing in either tongues or a known language.
All Scripture is really clear, if we approach it without an agenda.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread - 10/28/2008 1:58:51 PM
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Him4all
Posts: 479
Joined: 6/26/2007
From: Kansas
Status: offline
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RC,
quote:
Praying and singing in tongues, since they are man speaking to God then there is no need for public interpretation. This verse seems to promote promote praying and singing in either tongues or a known language.
Two other scriptures support singing in tongues also:
COL 3:16 Let the word of Christ richly dwell within you, with all wisdom teaching and admonishing one another with psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with thankfulness in your hearts to God.
EPH 5:19 speaking to one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody with your heart to the Lord;
quote:
(1Co 14:12,13) Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church. Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.
This would seem to be God speaking to man, and as such would need interpretation.
So do you think that this means you should pray to manifest the 'gift of interpretation' from The Holy Spirit...when you or someone else manifest the 'gift of tongues' from The Holy Spirit? Or does it mean to pray for an interpretation of your own spirit's tongue? What do you think? Is it either one, or the other...or is it both in your opinion?
DR
< Message edited by Him4all -- 10/28/2008 2:06:02 PM >
_____________________________
When you violate LOVE you violate GOD.
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RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread - 10/30/2008 2:36:06 PM
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wacotton
Posts: 751
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: misty35
quote:
ORIGINAL: wacotton
quote:
ORIGINAL: misty35
quote:
ORIGINAL: twincities
acts 19:2 “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?” he asked them.
“No,” they replied, “we haven’t even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.”
3 “Then what baptism did you experience?” he asked.
And they replied, “The baptism of John.”
4 Paul said, “John’s baptism called for repentance from sin. But John himself told the people to believe in the one who would come later, meaning Jesus.”
5 As soon as they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 Then when Paul laid his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in other tongues and prophesied. 7 There were about twelve men in all.
food for thought.
Meaning....John's baptism was a sign of repentance from sin only, not a sign of new life in Christ. Like Apollos (18:24-26), these Ephesian believers needed further instruction on the message and ministry of Jesus Christ. They believed in Jesus as the Messiah, but they did not understand the significance of His death and resurrection or the work of the Holy Spirit. Becoming a Christian involves turning from sin (repentance) and turning to Christ (faith). These "believers" were incomplete. In the book of Acts, believers received the Holy Spirit in a variety of ways. Usually the Holy Spirit would fill a person as soon as he or she professed faith in Christ. Here that filling happened later because these disciples' knowledge was incomplete. God was confirming to these believers, who did not initially know about the Holy Spirit, that they were a part of the church. The Holy Spirit's filling endorsed them as believers.
If you read Acts 8 you will see that there were believers who were already baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus upon whom the Holy Spirit had not yet fallen. I find it inconsistant with the rest of scripture to think that these people were not true believers. The apostles as far as I can tell did not baptize non-believers in the name of Jesus.
Im not sure if you are directing that at me or twincities, but my post came straight out of the Bible.
Yes you posted scripture from the Bible but then you gave your own interpreation to it.
Now I doubt if I could convince you that you are wrong about Acts 19 because you assume that these people were not really saved. First of all Acts 19 states that they were "believers" so what exactly were they believers in if they did not believe in Jesus? Anyway I mentioned Acts 8 because it shows people who are baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus still needing the Holy Spirit to fall upon them. Now there are only two ways to interpret this:
1)They weren't really saved - I find it hard to believe they would baptize people in the name of Jesus who were not genuinely saved.
2)They were saved but there is a second work of the Holy Spirit that comes after salvation called the baptism of the Holy Spirit.
I was saved for 8 months before I was baptized with the Holy Spirit.
I have no doubt whatsoever that I was saved because Jesus changed my life dramatically, but I was not baptized with the Holy Spirit until 8 months after. When I was first saved I was told that I already had the Holy Spirit. Later I was told that I had to receive it by faith and that not everyone got the gift of tongues. Then I began to ask Jesus about it and he showed me two things.
First he showed me that the disciples received the Holy Spirit twice. In John 20:22 on the first day of the resurrection when Jesus breathed on them (very symbolic of the new birth) and said, "receive ye the Holy Ghost" (the tense of the Greek word for receive shows that He was not talking about the future) and then again the Holy Spirit came upon them in Acts 2 when they were baptized with the Holy Spirit.
Second he showed me that everyone who could speak in tongues described the baptism with the Holy Spirit as a very distinct and definite experience that occured after salvation and those who could not speak in tongues did not.
_____________________________
Bill Cotton
2 Corinthians 3:6
Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
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RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread - 10/30/2008 6:10:34 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 5782
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Him4all
What you quote above concerning 'Holy Spirit prayer to God' would mean God is praying to God....what for??? I don't think that's true for The Holy Spirit, ....
DR
Would;
(Rom 8:26) Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
constitute "God praying to God" in your opinion.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread - 10/31/2008 11:54:16 AM
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Him4all
Posts: 479
Joined: 6/26/2007
From: Kansas
Status: offline
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RC,
A very long answer is what's required to answer your very short question RC.
quote:
Would;
(Rom 8:26) Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
constitute "God praying to God" in your opinion.
No it doesn't 'IMO', but you'll have to bear with me while I tell you why. The main reason you believe that's what the above verse is saying is because translators capitalize the word spirit in that verse. As you know the original texts were all 'upper case' or 'lower case' and therefore, all capitalization is a product of 'interpretation' (based upon belief) and not 'translation'. Read that same verse again/below 'without man's capitalization' and what thought enters your mind.
(Rom 8:26) Likewise the spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
Now compare that same verse with the following scripture:
1CO 2:11 For what person knows a man's thoughts except the spirit of the man which is in him? So also no one comprehends the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.
With those two verses I believe we have some justification as to 'prayer tongues' being 'our spirit' praying to God. It also justifies why our spirit needs to pray...because our spirit knows what we are 'really' thinking (whether it's right or wrong). I'm sure we'd all agree on that...OK not all of us maybe. 
Now, with the above thoughts in mind, let's now read Rom 8:23...which puts the verse you quoted, verse 28, in context
ROM 8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body. Having read it in context what is this verse saying, let's see how it relfects on verse 28? But in reading vs 26, keep in mind that our 'born again holy spirit' is the firstfruit (offspring) of The Holy Spirit (John 3:6).
ROM 8:26 Likewise the spirit helps us in our weakness; for we do not know how to pray as we ought, but the spirit himself intercedes for us with sighs too deep for words. 27 And he who searches the hearts of men knows what is the mind of the spirit, because the spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.
I believe it is saying 'WE' do this 'spiritual groaning' within ourselves vs 23. And we do so with what spirit? I believe it is the 'born again holy spirit' of a person which has been born in 'spirit' by The Holy Spirit which makes our spirit a holy spirit. Translators simply don't understand this concept IMO and therefore make mistakes with their capitalizing of spirit, based upon their theology instead of true Spiritual truths. I don't fault them for doing so, they simply did the best job they could.
I don't know if I even want to ask what you think.
DR
_____________________________
When you violate LOVE you violate GOD.
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RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread - 10/31/2008 6:53:44 PM
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misty35
Posts: 614
Joined: 9/22/2008
From: Arkansas
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: wacotton
quote:
ORIGINAL: misty35
quote:
ORIGINAL: wacotton
quote:
ORIGINAL: misty35
quote:
ORIGINAL: twincities
acts 19:2 “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?” he asked them.
“No,” they replied, “we haven’t even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.”
3 “Then what baptism did you experience?” he asked.
And they replied, “The baptism of John.”
4 Paul said, “John’s baptism called for repentance from sin. But John himself told the people to believe in the one who would come later, meaning Jesus.”
5 As soon as they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 Then when Paul laid his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in other tongues and prophesied. 7 There were about twelve men in all.
food for thought.
Meaning....John's baptism was a sign of repentance from sin only, not a sign of new life in Christ. Like Apollos (18:24-26), these Ephesian believers needed further instruction on the message and ministry of Jesus Christ. They believed in Jesus as the Messiah, but they did not understand the significance of His death and resurrection or the work of the Holy Spirit. Becoming a Christian involves turning from sin (repentance) and turning to Christ (faith). These "believers" were incomplete. In the book of Acts, believers received the Holy Spirit in a variety of ways. Usually the Holy Spirit would fill a person as soon as he or she professed faith in Christ. Here that filling happened later because these disciples' knowledge was incomplete. God was confirming to these believers, who did not initially know about the Holy Spirit, that they were a part of the church. The Holy Spirit's filling endorsed them as believers.
If you read Acts 8 you will see that there were believers who were already baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus upon whom the Holy Spirit had not yet fallen. I find it inconsistant with the rest of scripture to think that these people were not true believers. The apostles as far as I can tell did not baptize non-believers in the name of Jesus.
Im not sure if you are directing that at me or twincities, but my post came straight out of the Bible.
Yes you posted scripture from the Bible but then you gave your own interpreation to it.
Now I doubt if I could convince you that you are wrong about Acts 19 because you assume that these people were not really saved. First of all Acts 19 states that they were "believers" so what exactly were they believers in if they did not believe in Jesus? Anyway I mentioned Acts 8 because it shows people who are baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus still needing the Holy Spirit to fall upon them. Now there are only two ways to interpret this:
1)They weren't really saved - I find it hard to believe they would baptize people in the name of Jesus who were not genuinely saved.
2)They were saved but there is a second work of the Holy Spirit that comes after salvation called the baptism of the Holy Spirit.
I was saved for 8 months before I was baptized with the Holy Spirit.
I have no doubt whatsoever that I was saved because Jesus changed my life dramatically, but I was not baptized with the Holy Spirit until 8 months after. When I was first saved I was told that I already had the Holy Spirit. Later I was told that I had to receive it by faith and that not everyone got the gift of tongues. Then I began to ask Jesus about it and he showed me two things.
First he showed me that the disciples received the Holy Spirit twice. In John 20:22 on the first day of the resurrection when Jesus breathed on them (very symbolic of the new birth) and said, "receive ye the Holy Ghost" (the tense of the Greek word for receive shows that He was not talking about the future) and then again the Holy Spirit came upon them in Acts 2 when they were baptized with the Holy Spirit.
Second he showed me that everyone who could speak in tongues described the baptism with the Holy Spirit as a very distinct and definite experience that occured after salvation and those who could not speak in tongues did not.
quote:
Meaning....John's baptism was a sign of repentance from sin only, not a sign of new life in Christ. Like Apollos (18:24-26), these Ephesian believers needed further instruction on the message and ministry of Jesus Christ. They believed in Jesus as the Messiah, but they did not understand the significance of His death and resurrection or the work of the Holy Spirit. Becoming a Christian involves turning from sin (repentance) and turning to Christ (faith). These "believers" were incomplete. In the book of Acts, believers received the Holy Spirit in a variety of ways. Usually the Holy Spirit would fill a person as soon as he or she professed faith in Christ. Here that filling happened later because these disciples' knowledge was incomplete. God was confirming to these believers, who did not initially know about the Holy Spirit, that they were a part of the church. The Holy Spirit's filling endorsed them as believers.
Meaning....John's baptism was a sign of repentance from sin only, not a sign of new life in Christ. Like Apollos (18:24-26), these Ephesian believers needed further instruction on the message and ministry of Jesus Christ. They believed in Jesus as the Messiah, but they did not understand the significance of His death and resurrection or the work of the Holy Spirit. Becoming a Christian involves turning from sin (repentance) and turning to Christ (faith). These "believers" were incomplete. In the book of Acts, believers received the Holy Spirit in a variety of ways. Usually the Holy Spirit would fill a person as soon as he or she professed faith in Christ. Here that filling happened later because these disciples' knowledge was incomplete. God was confirming to these believers, who did not initially know about the Holy Spirit, that they were a part of the church. The Holy Spirit's filling endorsed them as believers.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
First of all Bill, that is not my interpretation, that is the footnotes from my Bible, I'll accept your apology in advance, seeing that you assumed wrong. Oh and your right, you cant convince me. :)
_____________________________
"For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind." 2 Timothy 1:7
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RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread - 11/1/2008 9:59:09 AM
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rcjames
Posts: 5782
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: misty35
Meaning....John's baptism was a sign of repentance from sin only, not a sign of new life in Christ. Like Apollos (18:24-26), these Ephesian believers needed further instruction on the message and ministry of Jesus Christ. They believed in Jesus as the Messiah, but they did not understand the significance of His death and resurrection or the work of the Holy Spirit. Becoming a Christian involves turning from sin (repentance) and turning to Christ (faith). These "believers" were incomplete. In the book of Acts, believers received the Holy Spirit in a variety of ways. Usually the Holy Spirit would fill a person as soon as he or she professed faith in Christ. Here that filling happened later because these disciples' knowledge was incomplete. God was confirming to these believers, who did not initially know about the Holy Spirit, that they were a part of the church. The Holy Spirit's filling endorsed them as believers.
So let's see; in your zeal to negate the Baptism of the Holy Spirit as being separate from the indwelling you are claiming that some believers have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit when they believe and some do not?
And since Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever; what would be the difference between believers in the Book of Acts and present day Believers?
Thanks
RC
edited for spelling
< Message edited by rcjames -- 11/1/2008 10:27:09 AM >
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread - 11/1/2008 12:09:57 PM
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misty35
Posts: 614
Joined: 9/22/2008
From: Arkansas
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: misty35
Meaning....John's baptism was a sign of repentance from sin only, not a sign of new life in Christ. Like Apollos (18:24-26), these Ephesian believers needed further instruction on the message and ministry of Jesus Christ. They believed in Jesus as the Messiah, but they did not understand the significance of His death and resurrection or the work of the Holy Spirit. Becoming a Christian involves turning from sin (repentance) and turning to Christ (faith). These "believers" were incomplete. In the book of Acts, believers received the Holy Spirit in a variety of ways. Usually the Holy Spirit would fill a person as soon as he or she professed faith in Christ. Here that filling happened later because these disciples' knowledge was incomplete. God was confirming to these believers, who did not initially know about the Holy Spirit, that they were a part of the church. The Holy Spirit's filling endorsed them as believers.
So let's see; in your zeal to negate the Baptism of the Holy Spirit as being separate from the indwelling you are claiming that some believers have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit when they believe and some do not?
And since Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever; what would be the difference between believers in the Book of Acts and present day Believers?
Thanks
RC
edited for spelling
Rcjames
Why is it so hard for you and others here to realized, that the post you keep referring to you, is directly from the Bible. That post is not my interpretation, its FOOTNOTES from the Bible. So stop trying to have a debate with me, and look for the answers elsewhere. If that post were my interpretation, then there may very well be a debate, but with me getting that information from the Bible, meaning those arent my words, Im not going to debate it with you.
I was simply reading this thread, referred to my Bible, read the footnotes and posted that information.
Is it really that hard to understand? LOL....and to be honest with you, I havent even read the last several post here because Im no longer interested in this thread, so many people are out to prove who is wrong and right here, that a thread can be ruined very easily. So thats why today, after I post this, I will unsubscribe to this thread, because its all getting a little bit pathetic.
And there is only one person that can give you and many more true meaning and wisdom to the Word, and thats God.....so stop debating it, and seek His presence. Its so very easy to have knowledge of the Word, but to live it, is very different. I often wonder the people here who want to make this into a argument, truly know know what they are talking about? Thats very interesting to me. Its so easy to get Scripture from the Bible and post it, but have you truly experienced what your talking about? Maybe you have, but my perfect example is this, I had a guy from this thread, who was going to try and tell me that I was wrong, and the funny thing that struck me, is how in the world can he do that, when he is clearly not me?
Anyway, have a great day RC, and post as you like, I wont be back, I think you all have kinda damaged this thread, and have repeated yourselves numerous times.
_____________________________
"For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind." 2 Timothy 1:7
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RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread - 11/1/2008 1:47:56 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 5782
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: misty35
Why is it so hard for you and others here to realized, that the post you keep referring to you, is directly from the Bible. That post is not my interpretation, its FOOTNOTES from the Bible.
Misty35, please do not refer to footnotes (That are the writings of man's theology) to equate the Word of God.
There are many variations on footnotes(Some may be correct, some may be incorrect, but since they disagree with each other; they cannot be considered truth), There is only one infallably, unerring, truthful Word of God; so please refer to Scriptrue if you are trying to make a Scriptureal point.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread - 11/1/2008 3:41:05 PM
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misty35
Posts: 614
Joined: 9/22/2008
From: Arkansas
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: misty35
Why is it so hard for you and others here to realized, that the post you keep referring to you, is directly from the Bible. That post is not my interpretation, its FOOTNOTES from the Bible.
Misty35, please do not refer to footnotes (That are the writings of man's theology) to equate the Word of God.
There are many variations on footnotes(Some may be correct, some may be incorrect, but since they disagree with each other; they cannot be considered truth), There is only one infallably, unerring, truthful Word of God; so please refer to Scriptrue if you are trying to make a Scriptureal point.
Thanks
RC
Just as many here have their own theology of Scripture. But as for me, I will believe what the footnotes say in my Bible before I believe what someone's theology here is. The Bible, the Word of God, including the footnotes, have not pointed me in the wrong direction yet.
_____________________________
"For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind." 2 Timothy 1:7
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RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread - 11/1/2008 5:21:46 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 5782
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: misty35
Just as many here have their own theology of Scripture. But as for me, I will believe what the footnotes say in my Bible before I believe what someone's theology here is. The Bible, the Word of God, including the footnotes, have not pointed me in the wrong direction yet.
Well it does seem to this ole boy that those footnotes have pointed you in the wrong direction concerning the subject at hand.
Honestly though when footnotes counter plain Scripture; I think that Scripture wins out.
But then again that could just be me.
If you do not mind how about sharing which Bible you use?
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread - 11/1/2008 11:44:40 PM
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MrFribbles
Posts: 1886
Joined: 1/29/2007
From: Hawaii, but I've moved around since then
Status: offline
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quote:
The Bible, the Word of God, including the footnotes, have not pointed me in the wrong direction yet.
The Bible and those footnotes are not one and the same. God inspired the Bible - He did not inspire those footnotes. That doesn't mean they're automatically wrong, but don't put more faith in them than is due.
_____________________________
You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
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