quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinner-Saint

Oh now the Millennium ended in A.D. 70?

quote:

ORIGINAL: parousia70
The Millennium was fulfilled during the 40 years between the Ascension and the Destruction of Jerusalem, and was symbolic of the length of the entire Davidic Monarchy, From David to Christ, a period of approx. 1000 years. David being the first King in the line and Christ being the last, fulfilling all that the Kings of Israel before Him could not fulfill.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinner-Saint

quote:

ORIGINAL: parousia70
The Millennium was fulfilled during the 40 years between the Ascension and the Destruction of Jerusalem, and was symbolic of the length of the entire Davidic Monarchy, From David to Christ, a period of approx. 1000 years. David being the first King in the line and Christ being the last, fulfilling all that the Kings of Israel before Him could not fulfill.

Well my friend, Isaiah has some Millennium prophecies in his book and Ezekiel has more in the last chapters of his book. Zechariah also describes the Millennium in bits and snatches - however - none of these prophecies were fulfilled between the time when the Messiah was cut off and the destruction of the Temple and the city as foretold by Gabriel.

Dan 9:26 After the sixty-two `sevens,' the Anointed One will be cut off and will have nothing. The people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end will come like a flood: War will continue until the end, and desolations have been decreed.
War will continue until the end.

The BIG event which you and others want to say was the end was but just the first of two rebellions against Rome by the Jews. The second resulted in their dispersal throughout the Roman world so as to dissolve the nation. It didn't work. Nearly two thousand years of persecution by Satan and his forces has failed to wipe God's chosen people off the face of the earth.

Indeed, in a reversal of history, Israel was re-born. Theologians from Augustine to Gill to Spurgeon could have never guessed that we'd actually have a reality in which all the prophecy concerning the coming one 'seven' could be fulfilled - literally.

But you see, Daniel 9:26 inserts three events between the sixty-second 'seven' after which the Messiah is cut off and the one 'seven' which includes the end. In that respect, Gabriel speaks in parallel fashion giving a broad overview in verse 26 which takes us to the end, and then backing up in parallel fashion and giving us more detail about the one 'seven.'

In this we learn how the one 'seven' starts and the it has a midpoint Abominations, a desolator, and that the same desolations which have been decreed will be poured out onto this desolator.

None of this has happened yet.

In fact war continues. This is a sign to us that this prophecy is still on going. War will continue to the end. Not only has the end NOT come yet, the peace which exists after it as Hosea 6:1-2 indicates lasts a thousand years after two thousand years of struggle hasn't come either. Jesus will be a present reality in the world. With all the world's religions and Judeo-Christianity in a distinct minority status, and even those regions which are predominantly Christian not following God's Laws - the world can hardly be said to be ruled by a rod of iron.

No my friend, I think you are seriously in error.

Now you can proclaim the Millennium has happened, but your proclamation is meaningless without anything to back it up. If you want to live in your figurative world, then you might appreciate how the Pharisees could not see the Messiah in Jesus. Perhaps they took all that prophecy about Him figuratively too. I know if I had lived at that time, I probably wouldn't have gone with the "radical" from Galilee.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SandyWings
Dispensationalism is the worst sort of anti-gospel doctrine.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SandyWings
Preterists affirm that all prophecy was fulfilled at the time of the fall of Jerusalem in AD70.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SandyWings
Before we can discuss any of the figurative language of the prophets, we would have to not depend on old habits of being spoon-fed by the sensationalist futurists who came about when a Catholic girl had a dream about Christ returning some 2 or 3 times .

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinner-Saint

quote:

ORIGINAL: SandyWings
Dispensationalism is the worst sort of anti-gospel doctrine.

Oops. You missed. I'm not a Dispensationalist. Nor is Dispensationalism anti-Gospel. That is your opinion, not the truth.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SandyWings
Preterists affirm that all prophecy was fulfilled at the time of the fall of Jerusalem in AD70.

You Preterists keep saying that but I have yet to read or hear how ALL of prophecy was actually fulfilled when I bring up what prophecy for the end-times is IN the Bible! So much for doing so with Scripture!

quote:

ORIGINAL: SandyWings
Before we can discuss any of the figurative language of the prophets, we would have to not depend on old habits of being spoon-fed by the sensationalist futurists who came about when a Catholic girl had a dream about Christ returning some 2 or 3 times .

Oops! You missed again! I'm not Catholic, nor does Pre-Millennium eschatology rely upon some girl's dreams!

Furthermore, you'd have to take some very concrete and literal language figuratively to say that the prophets spoke figuratively throughout - which they don't.

So lay out all of prophecy and lay it up against history one-for-one.
Furthermore, as a test: your layout of history had better be in the same order that God specifies through prophecy which is in the Bible concerning the end-times.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinner-Saint

Oh, now the Sun/moon/star event is only figurative! And only you have the correct figurative interpretation of this!

This is laughable; I ask you to tell me how Preterism stacks up against History by comparing what is IN the Bible to what happened and you shift to the attack!

Well miss, I have done an analysis of the Day of the Lord and the Sun/moon/star event and it can have a very literal fulfillement!


http://forums.crosswalk.com/m_3041795/mpage_1/tm.htm

Now when you are going to present your evidence that all end-time prophecy has been fulfilled?

quote:

ORIGINAL: SandyWings
First of all, there were many Days of the Lord in the OT. The ones you chose to quote are references to Jerusalem being destroyed by king Nebuchadnezzar in 586BC.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SandyWings
We should be focusing on the "Great & terrible Day of the Lord"
prophesied by prophets like Malachi.(which is a reference to 70AD)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SandyWings
Sun, moon, & stars are symbols of authority in society, both political & religious. The sun denotes the chief authority. The moon next in authority, the stars are the nobles. See Gen.37:5-10 for its original meaning. The Morning Star is a symbol of the Messiah. Stars falling from heaven denote the destruction of nobility (as in Dan 8:10)
Stars, moon, & sun not giving their light denote authorities having their rule taken away. (Mt 24:30)
It will be lengthy to give many of the examples of the prophetic symbolism used in the Bible as it relates to actual secular history, so I'll begin with Isaiah13.
Here there is a very remarkable prediction of ancient Babylon. It is in the highest form of poetry. The Lord of hosts mustereth the host of the battle;
the tumultuous rush of the nations is heard; the day of the Lord is proclaimed to be at hand; the stars of heaven and the constellations hold their light; the sun is darkened in his going forth; the moon ceases to shine; the heavens are shaken, and the earth removed out its place.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SandyWings
So it is for the prophets throughout the Bible. In the NT, Jesus' own language of parables is an example that there are literal meanings beyond the obscure language.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SandyWings
The Epistles do the same & Revelation is practically in a cryptogram.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinner-Saint

Now this is a thread about Preterism. I can answer every point you mount against my eschatology but you cannot even answer a single question which has been poised to you.

When are you going to show where stands it written that everything was done in the past?

quote:

ORIGINAL: SandyWings
Reading Josephus' works & other historical accounts, one can see clearly that the earthquakes in various places, the famine, the persecution & deaths of some of the apostles, false prophets throughout the land, the sword & death, all occurred with the timespan from Jesus' discourse on the Mt. of Olives to the time of the siege of Jerusalem(the Great Tribulation)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SandyWings
This was the 3 1/2 yr period from 67-70.5 AD. The seal judgments were included in the events" to come after this" in John's vision.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinner-Saint

quote:

ORIGINAL: SandyWings
Reading Josephus' works & other historical accounts, one can see clearly that the earthquakes in various places, the famine, the persecution & deaths of some of the apostles, false prophets throughout the land, the sword & death, all occurred with the timespan from Jesus' discourse on the Mt. of Olives to the time of the siege of Jerusalem(the Great Tribulation)

You have not proved any eschatology with your figurative interpretations of prophecy.

So what were those earthquakes in diverse places?

I own a copy of Josephus' book and have read it. Please indicate in what book, chapter, and line those things happened.





From Adam Clarke's Commentary:

Earthquakes, in divers places - If we take the word óåéóìïé from óåéù to shake, in the first sense, then it means particularly those popular commotions and insurrections which have already been noted; and this I think to be the true meaning of the word: but if we confine it to earthquakes, there were several in those times to which our Lord refers; particularly one at Crete in the reign of Claudius, one at Smyrna, Miletus, Chios, Samos. See Grotius. One at Rome, mentioned by Tacitus; and one at Laodicea in the reign of Nero, in which the city was overthrown, as were likewise Hierapolis and Colosse. See Tacit. Annal. lib. xii. and lib. xiv. One at Campania, mentioned by Seneca; and one at Rome, in the reign of Galba, mentioned by Suetonius in the life of that emperor. Add to all these, a dreadful one in Judea, mentioned by Josephus (War, b. iv. c. 4). accompanied by a dreadful tempest, violent winds, vehement showers, and continual lightnings and thunders; which led many to believe that these things portended some uncommon calamity.
The Fifth sign, fearful portents.
To these St. Luke adds that there shall be fearful sights and great signs from heaven (Luk_21:11). Josephus, in his preface to the Jewish war, enumerates these.
1st. A star hung over the city like a sword; and a comet continued a whole year.
2d. The people being assembled at the feast of unleavened bread, at the ninth hour of the night, a great light shone about the altar and the temple, and this continued for half an hour.
3d. At the same feast, a cow led to sacrifice brought forth a lamb in the midst of the temple!
4th. The eastern gate of the temple, which was of solid brass, and very heavy, and could hardly be shut by twenty men, and was fastened by strong bars and bolts, was seen at the sixth hour of the night to open of its own accord!
5th. Before sun-setting there were seen, over all the country, chariots and armies fighting in the clouds, and besieging cities.
6th. At the feast of pentecost, when the priests were going into the inner temple by night, to attend their service, they heard first a motion and noise, and then a voice, as of a multitude, saying, Let Us Depart Hence!
7th. What Josephus reckons one of the most terrible signs of all was, that one Jesus, a country fellow, four years before the war began, and when the city was in peace and plenty, came to the feast of tabernacles, and ran crying up and down the streets, day and night: “A voice from the east! a voice from the west! a voice from the four winds! a voice against Jerusalem and the temple! a voice against the bridegrooms and the brides! and a voice against all the people!” Though the magistrates endeavored by stripes and tortures to restrain him, yet he still cried, with a mournful voice, “Wo, wo to Jerusalem!” And this he continued to do for several years together, going about the walls and crying with a loud voice: “Wo, wo to the city, and to the people, and to the temple!” and as he added, “Wo, wo to myself!” a stone from some sling or engine struck him dead on the spot!
It is worthy of remark that Josephus appeals to the testimony of others, who saw and heard these fearful things. Tacitus, a Roman historian, gives very nearly the same account with that of Josephus. Hist. lib. v.

Famine, persecution, death, false prophets, and sword play were yearly occurrences. So what was so special about this time which distinguishes it from any other four decades in history? Nothing much. As a matter of fact, the first Jewish rebellion happened during the relatively calm period called Pax Romana.

Very observant:

1Th 5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.



And the siege of Jerusalem was the worst time ever? Prove this particular siege was worse then other sieges. Be careful! The firebombing of Dresden was worse in loss of life than the Roman siege of Jerusalem! How about Masada? Wasn't that terrible too?

John Gill
be such as was not since the beginning of the world, to this time, no, nor ever shall be. The burning of Sodom and Gomorrha, the bondage of the children of Israel in Egypt, their captivity in Babylon, and all their distresses and afflictions in the times of the Maccabees, are nothing to be compared with the calamities which befell the Jews in the siege and destruction of Jerusalem. Great desolations have been made in the besieging and at the taking of many famous cities, as Troy, Babylon, Carthage, &c. but none of them are to be mentioned with the deplorable case of this city. Whoever reads Josephus's account will be fully convinced of this; and readily join with him, who was an eyewitness of it, when he says (m), that

"never did any city suffer such things, nor was there ever any generation that more abounded in malice or wickedness.''

And indeed, all this came upon them for their impenitence and infidelity, and for their rejection and murdering of the Son of God; for as never any before, or since, committed the sin they did, or ever will, so there never did, or will, the same calamity befall a nation, as did them.

Spurgeon
"For there shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be." Read the record written by Josephus of the destruction of Jerusalem, and see how truly our Lord’s words were fulfilled. The Jews impiously said, concerning the death of Christ, "His blood be on us, and on our children." Never did any other people invoke such an awful curse upon themselves, and upon no other nation did such a judgment ever fall. We read of Jews crucified till there was no more wood for making crosses; of thousands of the people slaying one another in their fierce faction fights within the city; of so many of them being sold for slaves that they became a drug in the market, and all but valueless; and of the fearful carnage when the Romans at length entered the doomed capital; and the blood-curdling story exactly bears out the Savior’s statement uttered nearly forty years before the terrible events occurred."

"The destruction of Jerusalem was more terrible than anything that the world has ever witnessed, either before or since. Even Titus seemed to see in his cruel work the hand of an avenging God. (Commentary on Matthew, p. 412)

(Josephus, The Wars Of The Jews, Preface, Section 4)
"...the misfortunes of all men, from the beginning of the world, if they be compared to these of the Jews are not so considerable as they were..."




After that - Name the Day of the Lord. Provide specific fulfillment to the gathering of the Elect. Describe the Sun being darkened, the moon becoming red, and "falling stars." What was the sign of the Son of Man in the sky? Who were the 144,000? From where did the Great Multitude show up from?

She has explained how the language is figurative in nature. Again read Is 13:10 which explains the destruction of the Babylonian Empire by the Medes. So the question to you is why do you assume Jesus uses the exact same language in a literal manner when the OT Prophets did not? The burden of proof is on you. As for the 144,000:
They were sealed:

Rev 7:4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

Who does Paul say was sealed:

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

They are the firstfruits:

Rev 14:3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
Rev 14:4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

Who does James say were "firstfruits"?

Jam 1:18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

So in your view the "firstfruits" come at the end of the age. Why are they called "firstfruits" instead of "lastfruits"?

The 144000 is symbolic of the first Jewish believers. You are familiar with the symbolism of numbers?



Finally - since you say all the seals were done -

Where is the burning of a third of the Earth?
Where did a third of the sea turn to blood?
Where was a third of the water made bitter?
When was a third of the light struck?
From where was the abyss opened and what were the dates for the five months of torture for the wicked?
Who was it that died when one third of the Earth's population was killed?

If that isn't enough for you to chew on --

When did sores appear on all mankind?
When did all the sea turn to blood?
When did all the water turn to blood?
When were all seared by heat?
How long was Satan's Kingdom cast into darkness?
How did the Angels make a way for the King of the East to come?
Show us where, when, who, what, and how all the world's armies were defeated by Christ! - And along with that - what was the final earth-changing earthquake which will literally level mountains?

You see Miss Preterist - you have a lot of work to do.

So let me repeat it again for you slowly in large print so you can read it:

If you really want to know, there are excellent books that will give you answers. "Who is this Babylon" by Don Preston or "The Days of Vengeance" by David Chilton and many others.

When are you going to show how ALL of prophecy was fulfilled?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinner-Saint

Here are excerpts from the book The End Times Controversy: The Second Coming Under Attack by Tim F. LaHaye (Editor), Thomas Ice (Editor)

"'Engys' is used twice in the book of Revelation. In fact, the word 'engys' bookends Revelation in 1:3 and 22:10. The apostle writes, "Blessed in he who reads and those who hear the words of the prophecy, and heed the things that are written in it; for the time is 'near' (1:3). At the end of the book an angel speaks to John and says, "Do not seal up the words of this prophecy of the book, for the time is 'near'...

"In the original Greek text, both Revelation 1:3 and 22:10 read nearly the same way. The verses do not say the kingdom of God (or heaven) is at hand, but 'the season (kairos) is sure'. Here in Revelation, why did John not use the Greek word 'kronos', which would have indicated a nearness in a certain chronological sense? Also, why in these verses did he not use the verb 'engyzo' (with the perfect sense), but instead, simply the noun 'enbys'? John is simply focusing on the fact of the certainty about the season someday coming, and is not emphasizing the closeness of the events." (p. 293)

"This family of Greek words (engys, engizo) is a compound with a preposition and a noun meaning "in (the) hand". As an adverb, it carries the thought that something "is certain, it is a sure thing", "one has it in his hand". The 'Exegetical Dictionary of the New Testament" Greek lexicon gives the meaning of the related word 'engyos' as "standing as surety, guaranteeing... In other words, 'certainty' is one of the most compelling meanings for the word..." (p. 285)

"The internationally known lexicographers Liddell and Scott, in showing the descriptive use of 'tachos' with compound words, confirm that in most cases, the overwhelming meaning of 'tachos' is "speediness of action"...

"Swiftness of motion is the compelling and most common meaning of 'tachos': "quickness, haste, speed". Bauer, Arndt, and Gingrich (BAG) list the meaning of 'tachos' as "speed, quickness, swiftness, haste"...

"Many Greek scholars, both futurists and non-futurists, agree that the idea of tachos here (Rev. 1:1) has to do with swiftness of execution when the prophetic events begin to take place...

"'En tachei' is translated by Lange "in swift succession", who adds that other scholars "correctly interpret it as referring to the rapidity of the course of the events prophesied"...

"The adverb 'tachu' is translated in almost very case as "quickly, suddenly, speedily, without delay". The meaning is "do not procrastinate, do not hesitate" (pp. 295, 296)

"The leading Greek lexicon in our day is Bauer, Arndt, and Gingrich (BAG), which lists the following definitions for 'tachos': "speed, quickness, swiftness, haste" (p. 814 of the lexicon). The two times this noun appears in Revelation (1:1, 22:6), if is coupled with the preposition 'en', causing this phrase to function grammatically as an adverb revealing to us the "sudden" manner in which these events will take place. They will occur "swiftly". The other word in the 'tachos' family used in Revelation as an adverb is 'tachus', which all six times occurs with the verb 'erchmomai', "to come" (2:16, 3:11, 11:14, 22:7,12, and 20). BAG gives as its meaning "quick, swift, speedy" (p. 814, lexicon). and specifically classifies all six uses in Revelation as meaning "without delay, quickly, at once" (p. 815, lexicon). Thus, contrary to the timing assumptions of Preterists such as Demar and Gentry, who take every occurrence as a reference to timing, BAG (and the other lexicons also agree) recommends a translation descriptive of the manner in which an event will happen." (pp. 103-104)

"When it comes to the Greek word 'mello', Preterists are quick to say they believe 'mello' ("to be about to, going to happen, intend to"), as used in certain prophetic passages, proves that second coming events are imminent. However, the word is seldom used in passages that support the Preterist arguments about the second coming, or in a way that would point to as instant and sudden happening. The lexicons BAG and Balz and Schneider confirm this. BAG hardly mentions a future use of 'mello' that would specifically prove the Preterist case. The word is most often translated "be destined, inevitable, intend".

"According to the prestigious Liddell and Scott Greek-English lexicon, the main way the word is to be translated is "to be destined", or "likely to", "indicating an estimated certainty or strong probability" and an "expectation". The respected Greek lexicon Thayer says the word is used "of those things which will come to pass...by fixed necessity of divine appointment...are to be, destined to be".

"In certain prophetic passages where 'mello' is used in a future sense, immediacy is not implied. Balz and Schneider show that the word "can express the necessity of an event that is based on the divine will and thus is certain to occur"... (p. 297)

"The word 'mello' is used thirteen times in Revelation, and is to be translated "will" in most cases. Again, the idea of when specific events are to take place is not the point. That they are certain is the most common meaning." (p. 300)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sooner

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinner-Saint

Here are excerpts from the book The End Times Controversy: The Second Coming Under Attack by Tim F. LaHaye (Editor), Thomas Ice (Editor)

"'Engys' is used twice in the book of Revelation. In fact, the word 'engys' bookends Revelation in 1:3 and 22:10. The apostle writes, "Blessed in he who reads and those who hear the words of the prophecy, and heed the things that are written in it; for the time is 'near' (1:3). At the end of the book an angel speaks to John and says, "Do not seal up the words of this prophecy of the book, for the time is 'near'...

"In the original Greek text, both Revelation 1:3 and 22:10 read nearly the same way. The verses do not say the kingdom of God (or heaven) is at hand, but 'the season (kairos) is sure'. Here in Revelation, why did John not use the Greek word 'kronos', which would have indicated a nearness in a certain chronological sense? Also, why in these verses did he not use the verb 'engyzo' (with the perfect sense), but instead, simply the noun 'enbys'? John is simply focusing on the fact of the certainty about the season someday coming, and is not emphasizing the closeness of the events." (p. 293)

"This family of Greek words (engys, engizo) is a compound with a preposition and a noun meaning "in (the) hand". As an adverb, it carries the thought that something "is certain, it is a sure thing", "one has it in his hand". The 'Exegetical Dictionary of the New Testament" Greek lexicon gives the meaning of the related word 'engyos' as "standing as surety, guaranteeing... In other words, 'certainty' is one of the most compelling meanings for the word..." (p. 285)

"The internationally known lexicographers Liddell and Scott, in showing the descriptive use of 'tachos' with compound words, confirm that in most cases, the overwhelming meaning of 'tachos' is "speediness of action"...

"Swiftness of motion is the compelling and most common meaning of 'tachos': "quickness, haste, speed". Bauer, Arndt, and Gingrich (BAG) list the meaning of 'tachos' as "speed, quickness, swiftness, haste"...

"Many Greek scholars, both futurists and non-futurists, agree that the idea of tachos here (Rev. 1:1) has to do with swiftness of execution when the prophetic events begin to take place...

"'En tachei' is translated by Lange "in swift succession", who adds that other scholars "correctly interpret it as referring to the rapidity of the course of the events prophesied"...

"The adverb 'tachu' is translated in almost very case as "quickly, suddenly, speedily, without delay". The meaning is "do not procrastinate, do not hesitate" (pp. 295, 296)

"The leading Greek lexicon in our day is Bauer, Arndt, and Gingrich (BAG), which lists the following definitions for 'tachos': "speed, quickness, swiftness, haste" (p. 814 of the lexicon). The two times this noun appears in Revelation (1:1, 22:6), if is coupled with the preposition 'en', causing this phrase to function grammatically as an adverb revealing to us the "sudden" manner in which these events will take place. They will occur "swiftly". The other word in the 'tachos' family used in Revelation as an adverb is 'tachus', which all six times occurs with the verb 'erchmomai', "to come" (2:16, 3:11, 11:14, 22:7,12, and 20). BAG gives as its meaning "quick, swift, speedy" (p. 814, lexicon). and specifically classifies all six uses in Revelation as meaning "without delay, quickly, at once" (p. 815, lexicon). Thus, contrary to the timing assumptions of Preterists such as Demar and Gentry, who take every occurrence as a reference to timing, BAG (and the other lexicons also agree) recommends a translation descriptive of the manner in which an event will happen." (pp. 103-104)

"When it comes to the Greek word 'mello', Preterists are quick to say they believe 'mello' ("to be about to, going to happen, intend to"), as used in certain prophetic passages, proves that second coming events are imminent. However, the word is seldom used in passages that support the Preterist arguments about the second coming, or in a way that would point to as instant and sudden happening. The lexicons BAG and Balz and Schneider confirm this. BAG hardly mentions a future use of 'mello' that would specifically prove the Preterist case. The word is most often translated "be destined, inevitable, intend".

"According to the prestigious Liddell and Scott Greek-English lexicon, the main way the word is to be translated is "to be destined", or "likely to", "indicating an estimated certainty or strong probability" and an "expectation". The respected Greek lexicon Thayer says the word is used "of those things which will come to pass...by fixed necessity of divine appointment...are to be, destined to be".

"In certain prophetic passages where 'mello' is used in a future sense, immediacy is not implied. Balz and Schneider show that the word "can express the necessity of an event that is based on the divine will and thus is certain to occur"... (p. 297)

"The word 'mello' is used thirteen times in Revelation, and is to be translated "will" in most cases. Again, the idea of when specific events are to take place is not the point. That they are certain is the most common meaning." (p. 300)

Thats your reply?? You quote from Tim LaHaye and think that is the definitive answer?