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RE: Joel Osteen? - 3/5/2008 8:11:23 AM
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earthless
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From: where pigeons are wearing sweaters....
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quote:
ORIGINAL: draexo
quote:
Sorry, because of physical harm and death threats I have received on these boards over the course of some years.. I will not disclose personal information.
Surely I hope you jest!
I do not.
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Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Joel Osteen? - 3/5/2008 11:02:24 AM
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LBolt
Posts: 999
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83 and counting....LOL
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Wisdom is the principle thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding...she shall give to thine head an ornament of grace..---Proverbs 4:7
www.tatepublishing.com/bookstore/book.php?w=978-1-60604-743-9
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RE: Joel Osteen? - 3/6/2008 9:23:00 AM
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J_Michael80
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There are so many other Joel Osteens out there. He is not the only pastor that is a false prophet. Its unfair to pick on Joel Osteen just because he is so popular.
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RE: Joel Osteen? - 3/6/2008 9:38:34 AM
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JimboFletch
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quote:
ORIGINAL: faithfulservant1
There are so many other Joel Osteens out there. He is not the only pastor that is a false prophet. Its unfair to pick on Joel Osteen just because he is so popular.
That's like saying we shouldn't discuss the dangers of Crack Cocaine because there are so many other dangerous drugs like heroine and Meth out there.
One reason Osteen is singled out in this thread is the huge number of people enthralled by his charm while ignoring the man's gross error with scripture and unconcern for sin.
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RE: Joel Osteen? - 3/6/2008 11:34:27 AM
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earthless
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quote:
ORIGINAL: faithfulservant1
There are so many other Joel Osteens out there. He is not the only pastor that is a false prophet. Its unfair to pick on Joel Osteen just because he is so popular.
I see you're new to the boards and that rightly explains your comment. So welcome to the boards and to the community herein.
If you take a couple of seconds to see the threads on this page and on the second page of this 'Church' sub-forum.. you will notice we have a thread on a lot of other Word of Faith teachers which are false teachers and or false prophets (some are both).
As far as your comment of it being "unfair", he is highly popular and touted by both Christian and secular outlets as "America's Pastor" - the bells needs to be rung about his teachings and associations.
Telling us, fellow Christians, not to do so is asking us to outright disobey God's Word.
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RE: Joel Osteen? - 3/6/2008 3:07:39 PM
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AllForIsrael
Posts: 155
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quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
quote:
ORIGINAL: Two
quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
quote:
ORIGINAL: Two
I personally have nothing agianst the guy but he is the epitome of what good looks and smooth talking can do to some people.....though I admit I am not to impressed with his bible knowledge either....
You have nothing against someone who is considered America's Pastor and yet doesn't know anything about the Bible and preaches a false Jesus?
You're a nicer guy than me.
I don't know about all that.
About preaching a false jesus and a false gospel? There are 82 pages in this thread alone of video, written, audio documentation for your study.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Two
Americas Pastor? What?
That is what Christianity Today, Charisma Magazine, NBC, Larry King, etc all pin him to be.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Two
As a person was what I was referring to. I agree with you on the rest.
As a person? I know him personally and have dealt with him on a ministry level (my mother in law is a global Word of Faith star... ironic, I know) as an individual he is EXTREMELY nice and a very easy going guy.
But the same can be said about the Jehovah's Witness elder that lives across the street from me. Doesn't mean he is preaching God's Word.
And making a killing........agian smooth talk and good looks.
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RE: Joel Osteen? - 3/6/2008 3:11:50 PM
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earthless
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Two
And making a killing........agian smooth talk and good looks.
and a lot of ignorant people....
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RE: Joel Osteen? - 3/6/2008 5:04:03 PM
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sasquash_0
Posts: 52
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I think God is all about balance.
We are children of God he is the parent. Ask and we shall receive but not if we are asking for foolish things or abominations or things in which are not in our best interests. It's like a child asking to eat candy for breakfast for the rest of his life. It's a innocent request, candy is sweet, its good, most of us like it, but as a parent we would not oblige this request because we know not only would it spoil the child but it would lead to numerous health problems and disease and may eventually lead to their death.
I don't think it's about hating ourselves or each other it's about hating the sin within us, our stubbornness or deceitfulness, obstinance, our tendencies toward sin. It's about giving way to our own understanding and asking him to fill us with his. God says again and again to guard our hearts, our minds, treat our bodies as temples (be healthy) respect ourselves by not engaging in sinful acts. He says to love each other but to cast out sin to beat it to dust so there is nothing left. We are to honor our mothers/fathers/husbands/wives/brothers/sisters/friends/strangers but convict each other of our sinfulness.
It's his will, his heart, his thinking, his plan that should be done not ours. I think as we mature we learn to align our thinking, hearts, spirit, dreams, plans etc. with his, then we truly will know joy and peace, we truly prosper whether that means monetary gain or not. I do now one thing that God said trust in him and we shall not want, he will provide. I have always found this to be true in my own life. It doesn't mean that we will be rich, but that we will always have what we need and we need to learn to be grateful for what we are given, not lust after riches or be jealous of our neighbors blessings. Some may gain momentary rewards others may not, for everything under heaven there is a purpose, you need to find god's purpose for your life. God gives us many talents which I belivie are all to be used to glorify him not ourselves. If we can do this in the manner in which he told us then we will truly know what it means to be blessed, to have joy, to live the gift of life that God so much wanted us to have, we will know peace, and happiness. It doesn't come without trials and hardship we need these to grow, but it doesn't mean we live our lives mired in depression disease and self loathing either. So often these things are self inflicted, God forgives we have a hard time forgiving ourselves and inflict ourselves when it is not necessary.
No one has the right nor permission to judge others salvation, do not judge less you be judge yourselves. Listen to what God is telling you and do it and let him take care of the rest.
I think with any pastor, minister, priest, preacher etc, you can listen but then seek God first, seek his wisdom above your own. To listen and wholeheartedly follow any man is foolishness no man is perfect always seek God first, through prayer and the scriptures, listen with your whole heart to what he is saying and follow him not your preacher then you will have understanding, peace, and will not be led astray, no matter who is doing the talking.
Jodi
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RE: Joel Osteen? - 3/6/2008 5:07:36 PM
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earthless
Posts: 6348
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Jodi,
No one is judging Joel's salvation. We are judging his teachings in light of Scripture - that is a biblical mandate and more than necessary in our day and age.
"Judge not lest.." is not to be taken out of context. That passage, in context, speaks to the fact that you better have your own stuff together, [B]with regard to that particular sin[/B], because any standard of judgment you might apply to others will likewise be applied to you by the Lord.
Christ preached love, yet He did not validate tolerance of sinful behavior. Love denotes not only compassion and understanding, but discipline and mercy (Proverbs 13:24).
Our society tends to grab hold of the God depicted in "Jesus Loves Me" and want to sweep the God of Justice under the rug because frankly, He's no longer en vogue.
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Joel Osteen? - 3/6/2008 5:22:21 PM
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AllForIsrael
Posts: 155
Joined: 3/1/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
Jodi,
No one is judging Joel's salvation. We are judging his teachings in light of Scripture - that is a biblical mandate and more than necessary in our day and age.
"Judge not lest.." is not to be taken out of context. That passage, in context, speaks to the fact that you better have your own stuff together, [B]with regard to that particular sin[/B], because any standard of judgment you might apply to others will likewise be applied to you by the Lord.
Christ preached love, yet He did not validate tolerance of sinful behavior. Love denotes not only compassion and understanding, but discipline and mercy (Proverbs 13:24).
Our society tends to grab hold of the God depicted in "Jesus Loves Me" and want to sweep the God of Justice under the rug because frankly, He's no longer en vogue.
Agree earthless 100%
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http://forensictheology.smfnew.com
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RE: Joel Osteen? - 3/6/2008 8:00:47 PM
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sasquash_0
Posts: 52
Joined: 4/19/2005
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earthless,
Yes I agree with you, that is what I meant. I speak from my understanding of the holy spirit I am not as skilled as I should be in quoting word for word from scripture. Although I am working on that.
I was refering to other posters comments on the first few pages about the salvation of Joel and his followers, it was pretty much said that anyone who belivies in Joel is on the path to hell and will not see the kingdom of heaven. That is not for anyone to say. I've seen Joel I'm not sure what his intentions are they be good, just misguided. Hopefully Christ will convict and set him straight.
I just wanted to make the point we should never follow any preacher, pastor, teacher hook line and sinker, as I see so many people do. Seek God first both in prayer and scripture, ask for understanding and his will, and you will not be led astray by the Joel's of the world or by any new movements.
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RE: Joel Osteen? - 3/7/2008 2:09:39 AM
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Sammy_S
Posts: 512
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From: Brampton,Ontario
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Earthless
quote:
Sorry, because of physical harm and death threats I have received on these boards over the course of some years.. I will not disclose personal information.
Sorry to hear about that.And just to add I was not really serious about that question and neither did i expect you you to answer.But that has to be really hard on you is it not?
And unless this is too personal for you have you spoken to her about it?And how did she react?
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RE: Joel Osteen? - 3/8/2008 4:42:07 PM
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Sammy_S
Posts: 512
Joined: 10/6/2007
From: Brampton,Ontario
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Rwe
quote:
My MIL fully knows my stance - you can't keep it hidden when you're known for your writings, speaking tours, etc..
The greatest thing was to have her visit my church (now old church), watch the people's reactions (because they were skilled in apologetics) and have her sit through one of my sermons. God does have a sense of humor.
Wow..So would you say that she is saved but preaching a false message or that she is not saved and a false preacher?
I ask because that is something that I have been wandering about.Can a true believe preach an utterly false message?
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RE: Joel Osteen? - 3/9/2008 7:16:45 PM
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earthless
Posts: 6348
Joined: 4/11/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Sammy_S
Wow..So would you say that she is saved but preaching a false message or that she is not saved and a false preacher?
I ask because that is something that I have been wandering about.Can a true believe preach an utterly false message?
We cannot judge another person's salvation - only God knows an individuals heart and state. Having said that, it is indeed our task to judge their teachings in light of Scripture and stand on the Word of God regardless of societal pressures, political correctness, etc..
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Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Joel Osteen? - 3/9/2008 7:34:58 PM
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Lapidoth
Posts: 3471
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: OKLAHOMA
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That's it earthless.
We can't and are not to judge someone on salvation.
God judges them for and about that.
But we are also commanded to judge teachings according
to God's Word. And to sound the alarm as a watchman on
the four corner towers of the city.
Can a true believer preach an utterly false message? Yes.
That happens every Sunday, and every day on television.
That's why we are commanded to "judge ourselves" as not to
judged in the end.
We are to be "bereans", more noble than them all in looking
up everything everyone tells us. I'm sitting here right now as
I make manuscripts for upcoming lessons to verify the content
by Scripture. It's time consuming, but I'm not one of those lazy
feel-good christians. I verify everything I hear, and everything I
speak to a congregation.
JO's message is the "broad path" that leads to destruction.
Many christians are listening to him and many lost are listening to
him. But the christians won't grow biblically, and the lost may or may
not get saved. If they are witnessed to by others, they have just as
good a chance at getting saved as on the job.
Many a time is the "watchman" ignored when the shofar is sounded,
but the gates are battered down just the same whether the city wakes
up or not. God told Isaiah to "tell them" but they would "not listen."
God told Ezekiel to "tell them" but some "would" listen and some "would not."
When the sound goes out, the watchman's job is done and the responsiblity
is shifted solely on those with ears.
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: Joel Osteen? - 3/9/2008 8:21:55 PM
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draexo
Posts: 340
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From: Saratoga County, New York
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quote:
ORIGINAL: carlkeigley
But the christians won't grow biblically, and the lost may or may
not get saved.
Yes. What is said about these Christians and their state of salvation? What are we to do about that?
What type of action should we take? Paul confronted Peter at one point.
_____________________________
The truth will set you free!
TRUTH
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RE: Joel Osteen? - 3/9/2008 10:41:14 PM
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Lapidoth
Posts: 3471
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: OKLAHOMA
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The answer is in the Sermon on the Mount.
Those who hunger and thirst after righteousness will be filled.
The language reveals that it's in the depth of the hunger and thirst
to the "filling" that we receive.
If we want more biblical knowledge we will do what it takes to find it.
And we will find it. If we have little hunger and thirst, we will be filled
to that level.
But, if we're satisfied with what comes over the
airwaves and sound systems, desiring bad teachings, we will be filled
with what they put out. And we will become just like them. Are we
disciples of "whoever" or are we truly disciples of Christ?
Two conditions were given by Christ Himself that he said if we didn't
pass them, we are "unfit" and "cannot" be His disciples.
The choice is ours.
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: Joel Osteen? - 3/10/2008 8:22:50 PM
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Lapidoth
Posts: 3471
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: OKLAHOMA
Status: offline
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quote:
I supposed I have to get my Bible out to find out the two conditions???
Here's some starters:
Luke 14:26
"If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and
children, and brethren, and sisters, yeah, and his own life also, he cannot be
my disciple."
Luke 14:33
"So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath,
he cannot be my disciple."
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
John 8:31-32
31. "Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, "If ye continue in my
word, then are ye my disciples indeed:"
32. "And ye shall lknow the truth, and the truth shall make you free."
John 15:8
"Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my
disciple."
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: Joel Osteen? - 3/10/2008 8:41:14 PM
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LBolt
Posts: 999
Joined: 11/30/2007
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quote:
31. "Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, "If ye continue in my
word, then are ye my disciples indeed:"
32. "And ye shall lknow the truth, and the truth shall make you free."
The my "word" and "truth" is the Torah!
By knowing the truth we can stay clear of the theology of Joel Olsteen and any one else whose teaching doesn't cut the mustard!
_____________________________
Wisdom is the principle thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding...she shall give to thine head an ornament of grace..---Proverbs 4:7
www.tatepublishing.com/bookstore/book.php?w=978-1-60604-743-9
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RE: Joel Osteen? - 3/11/2008 6:41:05 PM
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AllForIsrael
Posts: 155
Joined: 3/1/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: LBolt
quote:
31. "Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, "If ye continue in my
word, then are ye my disciples indeed:"
32. "And ye shall lknow the truth, and the truth shall make you free."
The my "word" and "truth" is the Torah!
By knowing the truth we can stay clear of the theology of Joel Olsteen and any one else whose teaching doesn't cut the mustard!
Roger that.............
_____________________________
http://forensictheology.smfnew.com
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RE: Joel Osteen? - 3/11/2008 7:03:30 PM
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lightshineon
Posts: 3462
Joined: 4/11/2005
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Well you know how she covets that big screen, they may all be in kahootz. Watch your back, and remote control.
quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
quote:
ORIGINAL: lightshineon
Is she the one giving you death threats (lol)
quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
quote:
ORIGINAL: Sammy_S
Earthless
quote:
Sorry, because of physical harm and death threats I have received on these boards over the course of some years.. I will not disclose personal information.
Sorry to hear about that.And just to add I was not really serious about that question and neither did i expect you you to answer.But that has to be really hard on you is it not?
And unless this is too personal for you have you spoken to her about it?And how did she react?
My MIL fully knows my stance - you can't keep it hidden when you're known for your writings, speaking tours, etc..
The greatest thing was to have her visit my church (now old church), watch the people's reactions (because they were skilled in apologetics) and have her sit through one of my sermons. God does have a sense of humor. 
Ha ha! No, that was Benny Hinn, Paul Crouch, and Kenneth Copeland.
_____________________________
Remember, whenever you have pearls, there are always plenty of pigs nearby who would be glad to step on them.
F.T., 2007
Be sure you vote for those, whose views you want your children to emulate.
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