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RE: Islam - what is it and what is its threats - 11/18/2009 1:03:32 PM
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cornergas
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Very informative posts theocentric..
They should clear up some of the bad information "Christians" are operating under regarding Muslims and their religion, and Allah..Seems many cannot get the idea that the new testament is based on love..Love for God, and Love of people..but again we have to pay attention to our own salvation, and our own spirituality, and pray that we have all the facts before we start criticism of others religious belief..and we must make sure we are correctly following the God of the Bible..If we are, then we should not have room for hatred and agression toward the Muslim people!
You reap what you sew
Violence begets violence
Vengeance is mine says God
God bless us all.
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RE: Islam - what is it and what is its threats - 11/18/2009 1:06:03 PM
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TheosCentric
Posts: 2675
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quote:
ORIGINAL: CitationSquirrel
quote:
ORIGINAL: cornergas
Is that the scripture according to CitationSquirrel or is there real scriptural reference for that statement?
Well, considering that Islam didn't really come into existence until approximately 632 A.D. (from what I'm seeing, although I'm sure TheosCentric would be able to correct me), I don't think we are going to see any specific reference to Islam in the Bible. That being said however, if I look at the characteristics of the God of Christianity and compare them to the god of Islam, I'm not seeing a lot of similarities between the two.
That would be correct, although it took about 100 years before the Qur'an as we have it today came into existence.
And there is no reference to Islam in the Bible.
I even have a theory that Ishmael could or could not even be the descendants of the Arabs. The only proof of that is Muhammad saying so, but that's just a theory. It could be Esau for all we know.
The 99 names of Allah are very similar to the attributes of God, but it's the heart that worships that matters, not the words on paper.
_____________________________
God uses our bad will to accomplish His good will. - R.C. Sproul
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RE: Islam - what is it and what is its threats - 11/18/2009 1:25:09 PM
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LoyalGypsy
Posts: 2201
Joined: 4/12/2005
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RE Islam what is it and what is its threats
quote:
ORIGINAL: Eutychus
For discussion:
How is Islam different than Christianity?
Do the majority of Muslims want to wipe out Christianity and force Christians to convert?
What is Islam's threat to Christianity and Western Civilization?
Greetings
quote:
How is Islam different than Christianity?
Islam practices Jihad and Christianity salvation
quote:
Do the majority of Muslims want to wipe out Christianity and force Christians to convert?
No they want to make you fall (a real-time example is seen as those who support Islam in this country want to bring the USA down to the worlds level = the same thing
…..Rev 3:11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.
quote:
What is Islam's threat to Christianity and Western Civilization?
Exactly what we are seeing going on at this very moment in time
LG
< Message edited by LoyalGypsy -- 11/18/2009 1:31:40 PM >
_____________________________
Ex 19:5 Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice
...So the Persians ask that the 300 drop their arms. Leonidas responds; "Persians! Come and get them!"
300 The Movie
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RE: Islam - what is it and what is its threats - 11/18/2009 2:59:38 PM
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Eutychus
Posts: 7069
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TheosCentric
And there is no reference to Islam in the Bible.
I agree, but don't they attribute the OT prophecy to be about Muhammad that we Christians consider to a reference to John the Baptist?
Another thing I find interesting is that I've heard they say God protects and preserves His written word, but when the Bible and Quran are in conflict they say Jews and/or Christians corrupted the Bible.
_____________________________
Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." -John 6:29
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RE: Islam - what is it and what is its threats - 11/18/2009 3:14:39 PM
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TheosCentric
Posts: 2675
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Eutychus
quote:
ORIGINAL: TheosCentric
And there is no reference to Islam in the Bible.
I agree, but don't they attribute the OT prophecy to be about Muhammad that we Christians consider to a reference to John the Baptist?
The Muslims attribute the prophecy about the Holy Spirit in John 16 to Muhammad. I counted this argument a number of times on my recent trip to Mali. Many of them have only heard it from their Imam, but don't know where it comes from. I would venture to say the Imams don't even know themselves. It's just rote.
quote:
Another thing I find interesting is that I've heard they say God protects and preserves His written word, but when the Bible and Quran are in conflict they say Jews and/or Christians corrupted the Bible.
The Qur'an at times speaks of how God's Word doesn't change. It also upholds the Torah, Psalms, and Injil (Gospel).
There is one passage that speaks of corruption, but in a historical context, one sees that there were some Jews that Muhammad knew that had lied to him about some passages. In reference, the passage is really referring the corrupt talk coming out of the Jewish leaders' mouths at the time, but has been interpreted to refer to the Bible. Yet one can easily counter by pointing to verses in both the Qur'an and the Bible that God's Word cannot be changed. It's a difficult position to be placed in at times, but if one focuses the discussion on the Gospel and why we need a Savior, then this issue may or may not be an issue.
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God uses our bad will to accomplish His good will. - R.C. Sproul
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RE: Islam - what is it and what is its threats - 11/18/2009 3:21:38 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 7826
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Mohammed (Or probably his wife) plagurized to Scrptures to suit an agenda that they had to conquer those who had rejected Mohammed.
Just as Smith did for the Mormans and many others have done (Baker, Russell, Jones, etc.); as Jesus prophesied.
(Mat 24:5) For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
(Mat 24:6) And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
(Mat 24:7) For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
(Mat 24:8) All these are the beginning of sorrows.
(Mat 24:9) Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
(Mat 24:10) And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
(Mat 24:11) And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
(Mat 24:12) And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
(Mat 24:13) But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
No difference; just another cultic (AntiScriptureal) movement.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Islam - what is it and what is its threats - 11/19/2009 3:12:33 PM
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cornergas
Posts: 369
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Yes conquer converts, just like the Roman church did in the past with it's armies, under the guise of christianity..slaughtering people who would not join their perverted version of christianity. And of course we had "christians" on both sides of world wars killing each other, and "christians" in Ireland killing each other for years and the list continues to grow...yes we sure are in a position to judge other peoples' spiritual beliefs...hmmm the words "take the log out of your own eyes before trying to remove the one from your brothers' eyes" comes to mind.
Know the truth and it will set you free
Vengeance is mine says God
You reap what you sew-violence begets violence
God bless us all!
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RE: Islam - what is it and what is its threats - 11/19/2009 3:14:52 PM
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TheosCentric
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Correction: Muhammad's first wife was not a Christian. It was her cousin who was the Christian that confirmed Muhammad's "prophethood".
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RE: Islam - what is it and what is its threats - 11/19/2009 3:42:57 PM
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Lapidoth
Posts: 4977
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I guess judging in the LIGHT of Scripture
no longer applies?
Jesus is no longer the only way to God?
We can just love everyone into heaven?
there is to be no hate for any group of people.
We are one race created by one God.
And God handed down His Word to Moses and
became the WORD in Yeshua (Jesus).
Just a nickles worth without reading the thread. LOL
< Message edited by Lapidoth -- 11/19/2009 3:51:46 PM >
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: Islam - what is it and what is its threats - 11/19/2009 4:40:56 PM
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Eutychus
Posts: 7069
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Dothan, AL
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cornergas
Yes conquer converts, just like the Roman church did in the past with it's armies, under the guise of christianity..slaughtering people who would not join their perverted version of christianity. And of course we had "christians" on both sides of world wars killing each other, and "christians" in Ireland killing each other for years and the list continues to grow...yes we sure are in a position to judge other peoples' spiritual beliefs...hmmm the words "take the log out of your own eyes before trying to remove the one from your brothers' eyes" comes to mind.
Which, if any, of those actions were Christ-like and according to His and His Apostles teachings? If they aren't, then those people were not acting like Christians.
_____________________________
Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." -John 6:29
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RE: Islam - what is it and what is its threats - 12/10/2009 4:22:23 PM
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GuitarPraises
Posts: 6
Joined: 12/10/2009
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Hi- I'm new to this board.
First, I want to say I have no hatred nor hold no ill will toward the Muslim people. I have a desire for them to come to know Jesus as their Lord and Savior.
But their religion is a religion of hate. M. Ali is a pastor in a church in Africa. He has written a book, Islam Reviewed that compares Christianity with Islam, and the Bible with the Koran. The page on this link has an online version for convenient reading, and also a link to the publisher's website where you can download it free of charge. It can also be ordered in paperback form for a nominal charge.
Chapter 1:
"Attributing fatherhood to God is condemned vehemently by Allah in the
Koran. In fact, it is regarded as blasphemy. This is one of the reasons that
Muslims believe the Bible texts have been corrupted. They are of the
opinion that Jesus never addressed Himself with any title of Sonship.1
This title is so repulsive to Allah that he even resorted to outright cursing
in one of the suras in the Koran:
". . . .The Christians call Christ the Son of God. That is a saying
from their mouth. [In this] they but imitate what the unbeliev-
ers of old used to say. God's curse be upon them . ." (Surat at-
taubah, 30).
If Allah is really the Rahman Rahim (i.e. the Beneficent, the Merciful)
why doesn't he wish that the "blasphemous" Christians repent? Why
resort to outright cursing? Yet in the Bible, God has to bear with even
Satan until the appointed time. Why can't Allah bear with Christians? At
this point, one is forced to ask: who is this Allah that has to resort to
cursing those who believe that Jesus is the Son of God? Could he be the
same God that spoke in the Bible? If the Bible and the Koran had the
same author, would they not definitely speak the same thing?"
M. Ali, Islam Reviewed fishhouse.com, publisher.
There are several prophecies in the Bible which do refer to Islam, but not by name. If you recall, Daniel 7 speaks of Daniel's vision of the four beasts, which are empires. I will concentrate on the first three. The first is the Lion with Wings, or Babylon. the next is the bear, or Medo-Persia, the 3rd is the Leopard, or Greece.
All three empires successively controlled the geographic area that contains the current nations of Iraq, Iran, and Syria. In Revelation 13, we see a beast Described thusly:
"The beast I saw resembled a leopard, but had feet like those of a bear and a mouth like that of a lion. The dragon gave the beast his power and his throne and great authority." Rev 13:2, NIV
This beast is made up of the same three animals described in Daniel 7. There is nowhere in scripture that changes the definition of a beast to mean anything other than an empire, so this beast represents a "super-empire" composed of the same 3 nations that each of the beasts represented in Daniel. God is more concerned with the spiritual side of things, so this Leopard-Bear-Lion Beast is actually the spiritual Islamic Empire, controlled by the dragon, or Satan.
In Revelation 16:12-114 we find:
"The sixth angel poured out his bolw on the great river Euphrates, and its water was dried up to prepare the way for the kings of the East. Then I saw three evil spirits that looked like frogs; they came out of the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. They are spirits of demons performing miraculous signs, and they go out to the kings of the whole world, to gather them for battle on the great day of God Almighty." NIV
The Euphrates pins the location to the Middle East, which is the seat of Islam, the dragon is again Satan, the beast referred to here is the Leopard-Bear-Lion, and the False Prophet, is... well , I'll let you figure that out. These same three spirits have been in control of the area covering Syria, Iraq, and Iran from the beginning.
There are a few more scriptures that point to Islam, but this is getting rather lengthy, and they are probably better discussed in other threads.
Have a blessed day...
-GP
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RE: Islam - what is it and what is its threats - 12/10/2009 4:54:17 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 7826
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TheosCentric
The Qur'an at times speaks of how God's Word doesn't change. It also upholds the Torah, Psalms, and Injil (Gospel).
So does the Qur'an uphold this very improtant part of the Gospel;
(Joh 14:6) Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Do Muslims really believe that believing in Jesus as the Son of God and savior of the World is the only way to the Father (God).?
I do not think so; but please enlighten me if they do?
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Islam - what is it and what is its threats - 12/10/2009 5:09:14 PM
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TheosCentric
Posts: 2675
Joined: 2/26/2006
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: TheosCentric
The Qur'an at times speaks of how God's Word doesn't change. It also upholds the Torah, Psalms, and Injil (Gospel).
So does the Qur'an uphold this very improtant part of the Gospel;
(Joh 14:6) Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Do Muslims really believe that believing in Jesus as the Son of God and savior of the World is the only way to the Father (God).?
I do not think so; but please enlighten me if they do?
Thanks
RC
No, the Qur'an does not uphold that Jesus is the only way, the truth, and the life, but one can use the Qur'an to point them back to this verse, because often they say that we have changed the Bible, when we have not. Once they see that the Qur'an is not talking about the Bible being changed, they can more readily accept what the Bible has to say. That, and the influence of the Holy Spirit.
_____________________________
God uses our bad will to accomplish His good will. - R.C. Sproul
Blog|Facebook|Twitter
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RE: Islam - what is it and what is its threats - 12/10/2009 5:10:26 PM
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TheosCentric
Posts: 2675
Joined: 2/26/2006
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: GuitarPraises
Hi- I'm new to this board.
First, I want to say I have no hatred nor hold no ill will toward the Muslim people. I have a desire for them to come to know Jesus as their Lord and Savior.
But their religion is a religion of hate. M. Ali is a pastor in a church in Africa. He has written a book, Islam Reviewed that compares Christianity with Islam, and the Bible with the Koran. The page on this link has an online version for convenient reading, and also a link to the publisher's website where you can download it free of charge. It can also be ordered in paperback form for a nominal charge.
Chapter 1:
"Attributing fatherhood to God is condemned vehemently by Allah in the
Koran. In fact, it is regarded as blasphemy. This is one of the reasons that
Muslims believe the Bible texts have been corrupted. They are of the
opinion that Jesus never addressed Himself with any title of Sonship.1
This title is so repulsive to Allah that he even resorted to outright cursing
in one of the suras in the Koran:
". . . .The Christians call Christ the Son of God. That is a saying
from their mouth. [In this] they but imitate what the unbeliev-
ers of old used to say. God's curse be upon them . ." (Surat at-
taubah, 30).
If Allah is really the Rahman Rahim (i.e. the Beneficent, the Merciful)
why doesn't he wish that the "blasphemous" Christians repent? Why
resort to outright cursing? Yet in the Bible, God has to bear with even
Satan until the appointed time. Why can't Allah bear with Christians? At
this point, one is forced to ask: who is this Allah that has to resort to
cursing those who believe that Jesus is the Son of God? Could he be the
same God that spoke in the Bible? If the Bible and the Koran had the
same author, would they not definitely speak the same thing?"
M. Ali, Islam Reviewed fishhouse.com, publisher.
There are several prophecies in the Bible which do refer to Islam, but not by name. If you recall, Daniel 7 speaks of Daniel's vision of the four beasts, which are empires. I will concentrate on the first three. The first is the Lion with Wings, or Babylon. the next is the bear, or Medo-Persia, the 3rd is the Leopard, or Greece.
All three empires successively controlled the geographic area that contains the current nations of Iraq, Iran, and Syria. In Revelation 13, we see a beast Described thusly:
"The beast I saw resembled a leopard, but had feet like those of a bear and a mouth like that of a lion. The dragon gave the beast his power and his throne and great authority." Rev 13:2, NIV
This beast is made up of the same three animals described in Daniel 7. There is nowhere in scripture that changes the definition of a beast to mean anything other than an empire, so this beast represents a "super-empire" composed of the same 3 nations that each of the beasts represented in Daniel. God is more concerned with the spiritual side of things, so this Leopard-Bear-Lion Beast is actually the spiritual Islamic Empire, controlled by the dragon, or Satan.
In Revelation 16:12-114 we find:
"The sixth angel poured out his bolw on the great river Euphrates, and its water was dried up to prepare the way for the kings of the East. Then I saw three evil spirits that looked like frogs; they came out of the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. They are spirits of demons performing miraculous signs, and they go out to the kings of the whole world, to gather them for battle on the great day of God Almighty." NIV
The Euphrates pins the location to the Middle East, which is the seat of Islam, the dragon is again Satan, the beast referred to here is the Leopard-Bear-Lion, and the False Prophet, is... well , I'll let you figure that out. These same three spirits have been in control of the area covering Syria, Iraq, and Iran from the beginning.
There are a few more scriptures that point to Islam, but this is getting rather lengthy, and they are probably better discussed in other threads.
Have a blessed day...
-GP
Anyone who attempts to pinpoint who the Beast of Revelation is cannot be trusted.
_____________________________
God uses our bad will to accomplish His good will. - R.C. Sproul
Blog|Facebook|Twitter
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RE: Islam - what is it and what is its threats - 12/10/2009 5:23:14 PM
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GuitarPraises
Posts: 6
Joined: 12/10/2009
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TheosCentric
quote:
ORIGINAL: GuitarPraises
Hi- I'm new to this board.
First, I want to say I have no hatred nor hold no ill will toward the Muslim people. I have a desire for them to come to know Jesus as their Lord and Savior.
But their religion is a religion of hate. M. Ali is a pastor in a church in Africa. He has written a book, Islam Reviewed that compares Christianity with Islam, and the Bible with the Koran. The page on this link has an online version for convenient reading, and also a link to the publisher's website where you can download it free of charge. It can also be ordered in paperback form for a nominal charge.
Chapter 1:
"Attributing fatherhood to God is condemned vehemently by Allah in the
Koran. In fact, it is regarded as blasphemy. This is one of the reasons that
Muslims believe the Bible texts have been corrupted. They are of the
opinion that Jesus never addressed Himself with any title of Sonship.1
This title is so repulsive to Allah that he even resorted to outright cursing
in one of the suras in the Koran:
". . . .The Christians call Christ the Son of God. That is a saying
from their mouth. [In this] they but imitate what the unbeliev-
ers of old used to say. God's curse be upon them . ." (Surat at-
taubah, 30).
If Allah is really the Rahman Rahim (i.e. the Beneficent, the Merciful)
why doesn't he wish that the "blasphemous" Christians repent? Why
resort to outright cursing? Yet in the Bible, God has to bear with even
Satan until the appointed time. Why can't Allah bear with Christians? At
this point, one is forced to ask: who is this Allah that has to resort to
cursing those who believe that Jesus is the Son of God? Could he be the
same God that spoke in the Bible? If the Bible and the Koran had the
same author, would they not definitely speak the same thing?"
M. Ali, Islam Reviewed fishhouse.com, publisher.
There are several prophecies in the Bible which do refer to Islam, but not by name. If you recall, Daniel 7 speaks of Daniel's vision of the four beasts, which are empires. I will concentrate on the first three. The first is the Lion with Wings, or Babylon. the next is the bear, or Medo-Persia, the 3rd is the Leopard, or Greece.
All three empires successively controlled the geographic area that contains the current nations of Iraq, Iran, and Syria. In Revelation 13, we see a beast Described thusly:
"The beast I saw resembled a leopard, but had feet like those of a bear and a mouth like that of a lion. The dragon gave the beast his power and his throne and great authority." Rev 13:2, NIV
This beast is made up of the same three animals described in Daniel 7. There is nowhere in scripture that changes the definition of a beast to mean anything other than an empire, so this beast represents a "super-empire" composed of the same 3 nations that each of the beasts represented in Daniel. God is more concerned with the spiritual side of things, so this Leopard-Bear-Lion Beast is actually the spiritual Islamic Empire, controlled by the dragon, or Satan.
In Revelation 16:12-114 we find:
"The sixth angel poured out his bolw on the great river Euphrates, and its water was dried up to prepare the way for the kings of the East. Then I saw three evil spirits that looked like frogs; they came out of the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. They are spirits of demons performing miraculous signs, and they go out to the kings of the whole world, to gather them for battle on the great day of God Almighty." NIV
The Euphrates pins the location to the Middle East, which is the seat of Islam, the dragon is again Satan, the beast referred to here is the Leopard-Bear-Lion, and the False Prophet, is... well , I'll let you figure that out. These same three spirits have been in control of the area covering Syria, Iraq, and Iran from the beginning.
There are a few more scriptures that point to Islam, but this is getting rather lengthy, and they are probably better discussed in other threads.
Have a blessed day...
-GP
Anyone who attempts to pinpoint who the Beast of Revelation is cannot be trusted.
Whew, what a way to be greeted!
The beast is not a who, it's a what, and I have showed you that the scripture itself points out what it is. In fact, the Book of Revelatoin starts out:
"The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show His servants what must soon take place. Rev 1:1, NIV
If the meaning of the prophecy is still hidden, why would John say this?
In Chapter 6, we se Jesus opening the seals, which means the meaning is revealed to us, as opposed to Daniel, who was told to seal the book, which hid the meaning until the time of the end. (Dan 12:4, 9)
< Message edited by GuitarPraises -- 12/10/2009 5:56:19 PM >
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RE: Islam - what is it and what is its threats - 12/10/2009 7:05:34 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 7826
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TheosCentric
No, the Qur'an does not uphold that Jesus is the only way, the truth, and the life, but one can use the Qur'an to point them back to this verse, because often they say that we have changed the Bible, when we have not. Once they see that the Qur'an is not talking about the Bible being changed, they can more readily accept what the Bible has to say. That, and the influence of the Holy Spirit.
Then the Qu'ran does not uphold the Gospel.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Islam - what is it and what is its threats - 12/10/2009 7:08:33 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 7826
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: GuitarPraises
Whew, what a way to be greeted!
Oh don't take it personal GuitarPraises, Theo-Centric is a good man and a Christian; he is just a tad defensive over Islam.
I think he works a lot in the area of the world that is mainly Muslim.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Islam - what is it and what is its threats - 12/11/2009 2:31:04 AM
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GuitarPraises
Posts: 6
Joined: 12/10/2009
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: GuitarPraises
Whew, what a way to be greeted!
Oh don't take it personal GuitarPraises, Theo-Centric is a good man and a Christian; he is just a tad defensive over Islam.
I think he works a lot in the area of the world that is mainly Muslim.
Thanks
RC
RC- I'm OK- I was expecting ''Welcome'' or similar before getting blasted, though :LOL:
I can understand where he's coming from. I have a few Muslim friends, and I know it takes about 7 years of witnessing to them before they see the light.
I have a Pastor friend in Kawempe,Uganda
who survived a machine gun attack during a worship service during his first year of ministry. He is a native & former witch doctor in a largly Muslim community and is breaking down the gates of hell weekly. His harvest has grown from around 5 or 6 to over 4000 in just 10 years.
He is training new pastors and starting new congregations on a regular basis. The local Muslim gov't is appreciates the help he gives the community.
2 more quick facts:
over 6Mi Muslims came to Christ last year in Africa alone.
About 41% of them experience a vision in whiich Christ appears to them.
- GP
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RE: Islam - what is it and what is its threats - 12/11/2009 5:23:22 AM
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TheosCentric
Posts: 2675
Joined: 2/26/2006
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: GuitarPraises
quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: GuitarPraises
Whew, what a way to be greeted!
Oh don't take it personal GuitarPraises, Theo-Centric is a good man and a Christian; he is just a tad defensive over Islam.
I think he works a lot in the area of the world that is mainly Muslim.
Thanks
RC
RC- I'm OK- I was expecting ''Welcome'' or similar before getting blasted, though :LOL:
I can understand where he's coming from. I have a few Muslim friends, and I know it takes about 7 years of witnessing to them before they see the light.
I have a Pastor friend in Kawempe,Uganda
who survived a machine gun attack during a worship service during his first year of ministry. He is a native & former witch doctor in a largly Muslim community and is breaking down the gates of hell weekly. His harvest has grown from around 5 or 6 to over 4000 in just 10 years.
He is training new pastors and starting new congregations on a regular basis. The local Muslim gov't is appreciates the help he gives the community.
2 more quick facts:
over 6Mi Muslims came to Christ last year in Africa alone.
About 41% of them experience a vision in whiich Christ appears to them.
- GP
Maybe I was a little bit harsh, but one of my pet peeves is when people attempt to use scripture and current events to try to prove something that isn't there.
My M.A. is in Islam and I don't think it's helpful to try show that the "Beast" in the Bible is Islam or Communism, or any other worldview in the world. It's not helpful, not Biblical at all, IMO. There's one guy who attempts to use numbers to do the same thing.
As for Muslims coming to know Christ, I was recently in Mali and we saw the Holy Spirit working in ways that one could not imagine. For the most part, it does take a long time working with most Muslims. But God also works quickly at times. About 7 or 8 people were added to the kingdom during that week I was there.
_____________________________
God uses our bad will to accomplish His good will. - R.C. Sproul
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RE: Islam - what is it and what is its threats - 12/11/2009 8:28:45 AM
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evry1needsgod
Posts: 2123
Joined: 2/4/2008
Status: offline
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From the Qur'an,
8:39: “And fight them until there is no more disbelief in Islam and the religion will all be for Allâh Alone...”
9:29: “Fight against those who (1) believe not in Allâh, (2) nor in the Last Day, (3) nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allâh and His Messenger (4) and those who acknowledge not Islam as the religion of truth among the people of the Scripture, until they pay the Jizyah [religious tax] with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.”
9:34: “O you who believe! Verily, there are many of the Jewish rabbis and the Christian monks who devour the wealth of mankind in falsehood, and hinder men from the Way of Allâh. And those who hoard up gold and silver, and spend it not in the Way of Allâh -- announce unto them a painful torment.”
9:123: “O you who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are close to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allâh is with those who are the pious.”
9:5 "Slay the pagans wherever you may come upon them, and take them captive, and besiege them, and lie in wait for them at every conceivable place..."
So much for being a religion of peace.  It doesn't require much intelligence to understand the threats that Islam presents. They need Jesus! They need peace...
_____________________________
"Believers are saved from their sin, not merely in their sinning!"--drmark
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RE: Islam - what is it and what is its threats - 12/12/2009 11:11:57 AM
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GuitarPraises
Posts: 6
Joined: 12/10/2009
Status: offline
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quote:
... but one of my pet peeves is when people attempt to use scripture and current events to try to prove something that isn't there.
What about the "birth pangs" prophecy, does that not point to 1948, when Israel became a nation?
I would say that is a fairly recent current event.
There are about 13 prophecies in Daniel and Revelation that mention so many days. When a year is substituted for each day, and you have either a starting point or end point mentioned, at the other end is a significant historical event. Such as the crucifixion of Christ in Dan 9 24-26. It's there.
quote:
My M.A. is in Islam and I don't think it's helpful to try show that the "Beast" in the Bible is Islam or Communism, or any other worldview in the world. It's not helpful,
Well, it probably shouldn't be shown to Muslims, and when I am talking to people about the topic, I always emphasize that I do not have Muslims, I am not against them, I do not promote or condone violence against them, dor do I intend for anyone else to who ia listening to me. But Christians need to know what's coming in the next few years so we can prepare ourselves for spiritual warfare.
quote:
not Biblical at all, IMO. There's one guy who attempts to use numbers to do the same thing.
Theos, did you test out the theory, or did you simply summarily dismiss it based on doctrine you had already been taught?
Let's look at the first 69 weeks of Daniel. It is commonly understood to be about the Messaih, right?Using scripture, knowledge of history, and simple mathematics, it can be shown that from the decree to rebuild the walls and streets of Jerusalem, issued to Nehemiah by Artexerxes in 444 BC, counting 69 weeks of Hebrew years (360-day years)
69 x 7 = 483 Hebrew years. Factor it to determine our Solar year equivalent (483 x .9857 = 476 Solar Years. We can ignore the zero year as most historians do. We end up with this: 476-444=32.
32 AD. The approximate year of Christ's crucifixion. (Historians allow a 1-3 year vairiance when dealing with dates in ancient times.) Seems to work here. Does other places too.
(God stated the number of years as days per Numbers 14:34 and Ezekiel 4:4-6)
So when given a starting point and an amount of time, in the scripture itself, why would it not be biblical to do the calculation? Seems like that other guys attempts might work out pretty well.
quote:
As for Muslims coming to know Christ, I was recently in Mali and we saw the Holy Spirit working in ways that one could not imagine. For the most part, it does take a long time working with most Muslims. But God also works quickly at times. About 7 or 8 people were added to the kingdom during that week I was there.
That's great. Theos, I am glad God has called you to that ministry. It sounds very rewarding. I'll pray with you that your work will continue to be very fruitful.
Have a blessed day
-GP
< Message edited by GuitarPraises -- 12/12/2009 11:18:49 AM >
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RE: Islam - what is it and what is its threats - 12/12/2009 5:45:24 PM
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LoyalGypsy
Posts: 2201
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: evry1needsgod
From the Qur'an,
8:39: “And fight them until there is no more disbelief in Islam and the religion will all be for Allâh Alone...”
9:29: “Fight against those who (1) believe not in Allâh, (2) nor in the Last Day, (3) nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allâh and His Messenger (4) and those who acknowledge not Islam as the religion of truth among the people of the Scripture, until they pay the Jizyah [religious tax] with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.”
9:34: “O you who believe! Verily, there are many of the Jewish rabbis and the Christian monks who devour the wealth of mankind in falsehood, and hinder men from the Way of Allâh. And those who hoard up gold and silver, and spend it not in the Way of Allâh -- announce unto them a painful torment.”
9:123: “O you who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are close to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allâh is with those who are the pious.”
9:5 "Slay the pagans wherever you may come upon them, and take them captive, and besiege them, and lie in wait for them at every conceivable place..."
So much for being a religion of peace. It doesn't require much intelligence to understand the threats that Islam presents. They need Jesus! They need peace...
quote:
So much for being a religion of peace.
LINK
LG
_____________________________
Ex 19:5 Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice
...So the Persians ask that the 300 drop their arms. Leonidas responds; "Persians! Come and get them!"
300 The Movie
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RE: Islam - what is it and what is its threats - 12/12/2009 5:58:02 PM
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benelchi
Posts: 4108
Joined: 9/14/2007
From: California
Status: offline
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quote:
I can understand where he's coming from. I have a few Muslim friends, and I know it takes about 7 years of witnessing to them before they see the light.
2 more quick facts:
over 6Mi Muslims came to Christ last year in Africa alone.
About 41% of them experience a vision in which Christ appears to them.
And about 71.29% of statistics are made up on the spot. 
_____________________________
אשת־חיל מי ימצא ורחק מפנינים מכרה
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