God and gf (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Life] >> Relationships



Message

warpspeed10 -> God and gf (11/3/2009 11:02:17 PM)

I have no idea what title would be fitting. This whole thing is a long story so thanks if you keep reading. Honestly I don't think it will all make sense with skipping some. Well maybe a little but really I need to say a lot.. I think.

For those that don't know I am in a long distance relationship with a girl. On one hand we've told each other and even promised that we wanna and will get married and love each other always.

Now in the past six months, she has had a few doubts; she has told me that she needs to get to know me a lot more in real life before she wants to have a relationship with me(which we did but I guess not anymore even though we wanna get married someday? go figure). But most importantly she has "broken up" with me on 6 occassions or so. I've lost count. When it happens so many times, you stop counting. There were various reasons for that. One of them was that she thought I spent so much time with her that I wasn't happy with the rest of my life. Which I am. Others were doubts or the aforementioned spending more time in rl. Personally I'm one that believes in sticking together through anything so all of these not only did I see them as excuses to do such a thing(not that she had some other motive but just... those shouldn't be enough for her to give up on me!), but they also hurt a lot. But the biggest reason is that she says God tells her she shouldn't be with me right now. When I asked her how she is so certain of that, she said: 1) an overwhelming feeling that she thinks is from God 2)random studies at her youth group 3)her family's advice 4) that she has been messing up a lot and isn't ready.

Some of you may say that I should just trust her but it doesn't make sense to me. I almost can't believe God would ask of someone to betray a close friend and bf and hurt him and give up on a relationship(or a close friendship). What's the show of love in that? You could call it a show of faith, but when God told abraham to kill his son, that was it. A show of faith, He didn't really want him to kill his son. And Like I said I think one of the biggest shows of love(at least in my eyes) is just sticking it out. Being with someone no matter what. Jesus(I think it was Jesus... maybe it was someone else, but this is in the new testament) said that God only allowed divorce in the case of adultery because of the hardness of men's hearts. Or something like that. This tells me that if you truly love someone you wouldn't divorce them even if adultery happens and certainly wouldn't divorce them for anything else. So I don't get how God can hate divorce so much but He would tell her to stop being with me just like that. Is a relationship THAT fickle?

I have asked her for very few things. I asked her to love me and want to be with me. Now she says she can't even do those things. And really.. if God really is telling her to do as she thinks He is, then I'm not gonna be angry at her. But either way it hurts a lot.

Now I wanna talk about the above.
1) I too have an overwhelming feeling ,which I also believe is from God, that I SHOULD be with her. I'm spending most of my time in college or studying so that we can have a better life and the rest of it I wish I could spend with her.(well I do other things now since I don't get to but thats irrelevant)
2) I believe that if you are constantly thinking about something then of course you'll find a connection to it with a lot of things. Of course if you are thinking that God might not want you to be in a relationship right now, then when you are having bible studies and something comes up, you'll somehow relate it to a relationship or not having one and stuff like that.
3) I think her family's advice is influencing her too much. One of the things her mom was worried(in case deermousie reads this, yeah, that mom) is that if she's with me she's gonna "waste" a lot of time on the computer talking to me, or not focus enough on her hobbies.(?!? since when is spending time with your boyfriend a waste of time? or preferring him over your hobbies?) And she always said that she'd never pick her hobbies over me with a "duh!" attitude about it. And now, just the other day she said she'd rather do things in rl that interest her rather than chat with me online. I think she still doesn't get how much that hurts and scares me.(scares me cause if she doesn't want to now, what about in 10 years? 20?) I personally want nothing more than to be with her and do... just about anything, I don't care so long as I'm with her. My priorities are very... obvious(? hope using this word makes sense) to me. God first, then her and the children we'll have and then everything else. I don't care if its college or friends or hobbies or my family, I'll always pick her and our children before those things. Why? Well for one I think every person wants someone in their lives that wants to be with them so much and loves them so much. I know I do.
4)As for her messing up, I've forgiven her time and time again and I've even told her I'd rather she be with me and hurt me as much as it takes, than not be with me at all.

Now what does she think God wants her to do? She says... to meet new friends and build friendships(I don't get why building new friendships, most of which will never flourish anywhere near as close to ours is more important than to keep building ours but whatever), college, her art, her job, spending time with people in rl, have all sorts of experiences and just mature and grow. And when does she get to talk to me? Whenever she has nothing else to do. And she doesn't realize how much this hurts me. She says its not like that, but it is.

Now I don't get why she can't do all that and be with me at the same time. She'd probably say she's just not ready yet. She's said that now she feels a lot more peace and she felt guilty before for being with me.

I don't really know what to do. Its hard for me to believe God would want this. Why on earth is getting more experiences and maturing up needed so much before you get a relationship?(I get it if you are 10 years old, not if you are 20) Why do you have to break it up?(I don't think you have to be 100% ready. Noone ever is. Just like noone is ever 100% ready to be a parent. Life throws things at you, you shouldn't give up on them and wait) Part of me feels that she just felt guilty cause of how much she respects her parents (in case you missed my other thread, they were really against it, so she must have been feeling subconsciously like shes wrong or something). She tells me thinking these things means I don't trust her. Well, none of this makes much sense to me otherwise. And I also feel this is so unfair. I've done barely anything wrong, I've forgiven her time and time again for dumping me, I've always tried to love her and show as much love to her as I can and spend as much time with her as possible. And now what do I get? That she can't be with me. She can't spend time with me. She can't tell me she loves me. She can't do almost anything we used to. I'm left with working for us and alone and I haven't done anything to "deserve" this. I didn't yell at her or abuse her or go out with other women or take drugs or ignore her or something to tell me that MAYBE God doesn't want us together at the moment. And now when I'm done studying every day and I'm home I miss her so badly and want to just spend time with her and instead I'm left alone cause she's too busy with art? going out with other friends? Heck, other girls wish their husbands or bfs spent more time with them and less with things that they think they should never choose over them(usually tv, computer games and I guess hanging out with guy friends) but no... In the end I even asked her(or begged her depending on how you see it).. not demanded.. asked her.. that she wouldn't go do something and instead spend time talking to me. But she went ahead and did it. It wasn't important and it would have made me feel heck of a lot more loved and wanted if she would choose me. In fact I asked her twice(not for the same thing). Once a couple weekends ago and once one weekend ago. And she said both times she went because she was upset I asked her not to and that its unreasonable of me to ask her not to do things cause she wouldn't ever ask me not to do things I like. I told her I WISH she'd ask me not to if its to spend time with her. As for being unreasonable.. how is wanting to spend time with her unreasonable? She should want it on her own, but at least she should be able to do me a favor since she says she loves me and wants to show that always. But she didn't. And yet she has asked me to respect her parents, one of which had me under some rules like I'm a 15 year old(im 21) and the other one had no problem saying all kinds of bad things behind my back and had no problem suggesting to my gf that she should date some other boy they both saw cause quoting her 'she was cute'. Did I find it unreasonable and unpleasant? I did, but I still did what she asked me to and I did it gladly.

I honestly don't know why I made this thread. Partially maybe to rant somewhere and partially to hear.. whatever you have to say... advice, comments, thoughts, or even yelling at me I don't care. I just want some opinions on.. anything I said.



deermousie -> RE: God and gf (11/4/2009 2:31:20 AM)

Let me outline this a bit for clarity. It's OK to rant, although it's hard to read when it's so long (this is the pot calling the kettle black! [:D]). Let me touch on a few things.

quote:

ORIGINAL: warpspeed10
A. she has had a few doubts:
1) she has told me that she needs to get to know me a lot more in real life
2) she has "broken up" with me on 6 occassions or so.
3)she thought I spent so much time with her that I wasn't happy with the rest of my life.


She's not ready to commit. She's hemming and hawing because she doesn't know how to get you to back off. I'm sorry, Warpspeed - I think you need to back off. It needs to be mutual or it's not working.

quote:

B. she says God tells her she shouldn't be with me right now.
1) an overwhelming feeling that she thinks is from God
2)random studies at her youth group
3)her family's advice
4) that she has been messing up a lot and isn't ready.


Whoa! Big red flag!
She thinks God is leading her, and unless you know her to be a liar, then you run the chance of going against the leading of God in her life, and that's something you do NOT want to do. She's learning from Bible studies and God appears to be leading her away from you there, too. Her family, unpleasant as they seem to be (from former thread) are still her family. God put her with them for a reason, and to discount that is to discount God. Not a safe thing to do. Warpspeed, she's practically begging you to back off the only way she knows how. If you don't back off, she'll probably snap and kick you out entirely. Listen to her and respond. Give her the room she needs.

quote:

C. I almost can't believe God would ask of someone to betray a close friend and bf and hurt him and give up on a relationship(or a close friendship). What's the show of love in that?


It's not betrayal when a courtship reveals that it's not working - it's smart. Look at the Bible and see what Christians are supposed to do - love other Christians (all of them), tell the truth, help the helpless... no where does it say grab a girl and force her to marry you when she is pulling away. Your will is not God's will; it's just what you want. She doesn't.

quote:

D. I think one of the biggest shows of love(at least in my eyes) is just sticking it out.


When you're married, yes. But you guys aren't even close to being married - you've taken no vows in front of God and the assembled church to solumnize a God-given marriage. That's when you have to stick it out. Right now you have to bend, and to hang on too tight makes it likely this relationship will soon end.

quote:

E. Jesus(I think it was Jesus... maybe it was someone else, but this is in the new testament) said that God only allowed divorce in the case of adultery because of the hardness of men's hearts. Or something like that. This tells me that if you truly love someone you wouldn't divorce them even if adultery happens and certainly wouldn't divorce them for anything else. So I don't get how God can hate divorce so much but He would tell her to stop being with me just like that. Is a relationship THAT fickle?


Again, you aren't married. Don't mistake your relationship with her for one that God gives - He hasn't given it to you yet. You seem to have a stranglehold on this girl, and there's no biblical basis for it and she's backing off. You must let her; it's the only way you can get her back.

quote:

F. I asked her to love me and want to be with me. Now she says she can't even do those things.


You made a request and she can't do it. She doesn't have to because she's not married to you. Let go. You had no business asking for a thing that's proper in marriage.

quote:

Now I wanna talk about the above:
1) I too have an overwhelming feeling ,which I also believe is from God, that I SHOULD be with her. I'm spending most of my time in college or studying so that we can have a better life and the rest of it I wish I could spend with her.(well I do other things now since I don't get to but thats irrelevant)


Overwhelming feelings aren't as important as what God is doing in her life. Feelings have no validity in Scripture as far as I can tell. Your strong feelings are apparent and I think you're not relating properly to a woman you're not married to.

quote:

2) I believe that if you are constantly thinking about something then of course you'll find a connection to it with a lot of things. Of course if you are thinking that God might not want you to be in a relationship right now, then when you are having bible studies and something comes up, you'll somehow relate it to a relationship or not having one and stuff like that.


Or maybe God is speaking to her through His Word and the leading of the Holy Spirit.

quote:

3) I think her family's advice is influencing her too much.


As a mother of a marriageable young lady, these are unfortunate words. Stay with me, I'm not mad. God gives children to parents with authority and obligation to raise, train, provide and protect them. We pour 18 years of our lives, money, interest and health into our children, whether we do it well or not. For some young guy who has been an adult for only a year or two and can't support himself yet to come along and think his opinion is more important than her parents is presumptuous and ridiculous. Were this my daughter, I'd be giving you the hairy eyeball at this point [:D] and my husband would want to have a long talk with you.

quote:

4)As for her messing up, I've forgiven her time and time again and I've even told her I'd rather she be with me and hurt me as much as it takes, than not be with me at all.


This isn't healthy love, this is desperation. Health wants healthy. Repeated messing up indicates maturity and character problems that need to be fixed before marrying.

quote:

Now what does she think God wants her to do? She says... to meet new friends and build friendships (I don't get why building new friendships, most of which will never flourish anywhere near as close to ours is more important than to keep building ours but whatever), college, her art, her job, spending time with people in rl, have all sorts of experiences and just mature and grow. And when does she get to talk to me? Whenever she has nothing else to do. And she doesn't realize how much this hurts me. She says its not like that, but it is.


Warpspeed, there are some tidbits of social life to be gleened from the Victorians that are worth keeping. Men are bigger and stronger than women, but a gentleman always takes a lady at her word when she says no. And he doesn't ask why. This protects the weaker and more tender interests of the woman from a man's superior strength, and it allows her to go the direction she wants to go without having to get another man to protect her from the first one. It's based on giving her what she wants, and is a form of biblical love (considering another person's interests more important than your own).

quote:

Now I don't get why she can't do all that and be with me at the same time. She'd probably say she's just not ready yet. She's said that now she feels a lot more peace and she felt guilty before for being with me.


A gentleman would never ask a lady to do something that made her feel guilty.

quote:

I don't really know what to do.


You know what to do, it's just not what you want.

quote:

Its hard for me to believe God would want this.


Take this as a friendly punch in the shoulder: do you suppose God knows more what's good for her than you do?

You're not married, you're asking/demanding her love when you are not married, and you're pushing her when she feels God, her parents and interests are leading her away from you. I think you feel it's hard to believe that God won't give you want you want so badly. That's kind of insulting to God, to make Him subservient to your wishes.

quote:

Why do you have to break it up?(I don't think you have to be 100% ready. Noone ever is. Just like noone is ever 100% ready to be a parent.


Or an airline pilot. Marriage and parenting first of all require the people to be able to give the mate/screaming baby what they need (which isn't instinctual - you need training) when the person is sacrificing what they need. And keep doing it for 30 years. It's not for sissies or untrained people.

quote:

Life throws things at you, you shouldn't give up on them and wait


You gonna jump in the pool before you can swim? [:)]

quote:

Part of me feels that she just felt guilty cause of how much she respects her parents


This is not a bad thing. It's just bad for you because you don't get what you want. Look at it from the POV of what God is doing in her life.

quote:

(in case you missed my other thread, they were really against it, so she must have been feeling subconsciously like shes wrong or something).


Or feels God is leading her and you don't like it.

quote:

And I also feel this is so unfair.


Whoa, stop. When a person says "unfair" it usually means they aren't getting what they think they should have. Check yourself for coveteousness.

quote:

I've done barely anything wrong, I've forgiven her time and time again for dumping me, I've always tried to love her and show as much love to her as I can and spend as much time with her as possible. And now what do I get? That she can't be with me. She can't spend time with me. She can't tell me she loves me. She can't do almost anything we used to
.

The situation is changing. The only way this can work out is if you bend with it and do what needs doing. And even then there is no guarantee you will marry her. God could be leading you away from her. Can you trust Him to give you His best when it's not what you wanted at first? See Ps. 84:11

quote:

I'm left with working for us...


So if you couldn't marry her then you'd quit college and flip hamburgers the rest of your life? Live in a tent? Or are you preparing for the rest of your life, to do well, no matter who is in your arms? Will you be able to support a family someday if you don't marry her? Will you have children with the wife God gives you?

quote:

...and alone and I haven't done anything to "deserve" this.


Right. God may be leading you in a way you don't know, and it will be wonderful and none of us deserve it. We are sinners and all we deserve is death and hell.
But God gives us eternal life and forgiveness of sin and His love and His blessings on earth. None of us deserve that, but we get it. Rejoice!

quote:

I didn't yell at her or abuse her or go out with other women or take drugs or ignore her or something to tell me that MAYBE God doesn't want us together at the moment.


Maybe God has a plan that doesn't depend on your behavior or desires? He is God, and it's His universe.

quote:

As for being unreasonable.. how is wanting to spend time with her unreasonable?


If God is leading her away from you and you are resisting God, spending time with her is unreasonable and worse.

quote:

She should want it on her own, but at least she should be able to do me a favor since she says she loves me and wants to show that always. But she didn't. And yet she has asked me to respect her parents


Are you dictating what she should feel? That's dangerous. Look at the marriage threads to see why.

quote:

one of which had me under some rules like I'm a 15 year old(im 21)


They are her parents. If you want the girl, you have to follow their stupid rules. And maybe they aren't so stupid. There was a guy who was interested in our kid, and you should have seen the rules we laid on him. We were testing him and protecting both of them from themselves.

quote:


I honestly don't know why I made this thread. Partially maybe to rant somewhere and partially to hear.. whatever you have to say... advice, comments, thoughts, or even yelling at me I don't care. I just want some opinions on.. anything I said.


No yelling, no anger, just motherly advice and a caring heart. I wish my husband were here to put a fatherly arm around your shoulder. Learn from this, Warpspeed, and trust God to give you His best, not your best. You'll find you won't be disappointed. He made you and He knows what you need and already has plans. Part of that may be a test for you.

God bless you, Brother in the Lord, and strengthen your walk of faith. It will end well! [:)]



keithyhuntington -> RE: God and gf (11/4/2009 4:05:39 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: deermousie
Whoa! Big red flag!
She thinks God is leading her, and unless you know her to be a liar, then you run the chance of going against the leading of God in her life, and that's something you do NOT want to do. She's learning from Bible studies and God appears to be leading her away from you there, too.


thats why i think its a bunch of bologna. i've been there. you like a girl, but OOOHHHHHh god says she can't date you. i think thats bull. the girl just doesnt like the guy, but feels too bad to say that, so she cops out and blames the breakup on God... poor God... what did he do to deserve this treatment? ever since the begining of time, girls/boys have been blaming their break-ups on God, when the fact of the matter is... they just don't like the other person anymore. but you can't argue with God (as mouse said) so its the perfect excuse. no pain, no blame. "God doesnt agree with this. adios!" and you just have to stand there and accept it.

i agree with mouse though, you gotta stranglehold on this girl. shes hemming and hawing, i say just let it go. as soon as i met my wife we both KNEW beyond a doubt we were 'the one.' if she's hemming and hawing and balking, chances are it was just the lust of the flesh, not a real legit love.



warpspeed10 -> RE: God and gf (11/4/2009 4:54:03 AM)

quote:

She's not ready to commit. She's hemming and hawing because she doesn't know how to get you to back off. I'm sorry, Warpspeed - I think you need to back off. It needs to be mutual or it's not working.


You are right about that.

quote:

Whoa! Big red flag!
She thinks God is leading her, and unless you know her to be a liar, then you run the chance of going against the leading of God in her life, and that's something you do NOT want to do. She's learning from Bible studies and God appears to be leading her away from you there, too. Her family, unpleasant as they seem to be (from former thread) are still her family. God put her with them for a reason, and to discount that is to discount God. Not a safe thing to do. Warpspeed, she's practically begging you to back off the only way she knows how. If you don't back off, she'll probably snap and kick you out entirely. Listen to her and respond. Give her the room she needs.


How come her saying God is leading her based on the things she mentioned, really is God leading her, but what I believe God is leading me to do is just what I want? I dont see discounting her parents as discounting God. People have free will. You should listen to authorities too, but not if they go against God. If their advice goes against what I believe to be God's will, (with hers or my parents or any parents) why should I think the kid should obey.

quote:

It's not betrayal when a courtship reveals that it's not working - it's smart. Look at the Bible and see what Christians are supposed to do - love other Christians (all of them), tell the truth, help the helpless... no where does it say grab a girl and force her to marry you when she is pulling away. Your will is not God's will; it's just what you want. She doesn't.


quote:

When you're married, yes. But you guys aren't even close to being married - you've taken no vows in front of God and the assembled church to solumnize a God-given marriage. That's when you have to stick it out. Right now you have to bend, and to hang on too tight makes it likely this relationship will soon end.


quote:

Again, you aren't married. Don't mistake your relationship with her for one that God gives - He hasn't given it to you yet. You seem to have a stranglehold on this girl, and there's no biblical basis for it and she's backing off. You must let her; it's the only way you can get her back.


I'm highly against this all. If its a couple of vows that make the difference between sticking it out and giving it up so easily, then I'd feel sad for the people involved. It should be love and it should be something they want to do, not afraid of not doing. And since when shouldn't you stick it out in relationships or even friendships? I don't know of any verse that somehow encourages you to give up on friendships or relationships. I'm sure there are a bunch, including song of solomon that speak of how great it is to have friendships or a relationship. The only verse I know that even remotely suggests something against this is the one that says not to get dragged down by unbelievers. Which to me doesn't say run away from them; Jesus Himself was around them all the time. I bet some of them did all kinds of dangerous things most christians today would advise other christians to run away and never get in contact with said person again. To me this verse says that if you are hanging out with unbelievers cause you love the sinful things they do, maybe you should change that. And until you change that you could try not doing those things with them or not being with them when they do them.

Anyway, the girl says she loves me and wants to marry me someday, so supposing that is true, I just don't see what could be that makes her feel shes not ready. If God really is telling her not to be with me then thats that. But the conversation is more about what if its something else?

Maybe you think I'm not being "gentleman" enough or unreasonable but bear with me and I'll give you a somewhat unrealistic, nevertheless valid(IMO) example.

Suppose that it isn't God that is telling her to stop being with me, but its some fear she has that might never go away. For example the guilt she might be feeling from her parents. What if her parents never agree to this and she just keeps feeling guilty non stop? You honestly believe if this is the case, then the right thing to do is to let her go? I see it as a weakness/flaw in her character that I'm trying to help her see and then fix. In this case fixing this COINCIDES with something that once fixed, I'll enjoy. If someone here on the forums said they were having sex outside of marriage and didn't think its wrong, wouldn't you try to help them see how they are wrong and help them stop? It's no different.

So really I don't get what I do that's so wrong.

quote:

You made a request and she can't do it. She doesn't have to because she's not married to you. Let go. You had no business asking for a thing that's proper in marriage.


No she doesnt "have to". I don't see how you should only love and want to be with someone only in marriage. People want things from other people. We are christians and if something is that important to them, we should try to fulfill their wishes. She has asked things from me too and I never ever felt she had no business asking me those things and I was always glad to do them. If you love someone enough and those wishes don't go against God, you'll do them. Its not just limited to relationships. Friends can need things of you also. A true close good friend would take another friend's wishes seriously and make them happen. So I don't get how this is wrong.

As for letting go, no I can not and will not. People have let go of me many times in the past and now she has too to a big point. I never felt love through that, only abandonment and loneliness and unwanted. Knowing what that's like, I would never give up on someone that I've grown close to. Until she marries some other guy, I'm not letting go. And if she marries me.. uh well then I don't have to let go! And for what its worth, maybe we haven't made an oath in church, but we have both promised(did I mention that before?) and I take that promise very seriously. You mention later on a healthy relationship. Well because I do want one, I will not let go and give up on the just a couple of basic things that I need. I can wait and be patient but I won't give up.


quote:

Overwhelming feelings aren't as important as what God is doing in her life. Feelings have no validity in Scripture as far as I can tell. Your strong feelings are apparent and I think you're not relating properly to a woman you're not married to.


I don't get what you mean by not relating properly. But anyway, this was in contrast to what she said. that one of the reasons shes so sure that its God telling her not to be with me at the moment is that she has an overwhelming feeling... to not be with me at the moment. As for feelings not having validity... as far as I remember there is scripture that says God puts and fulfills the desires of our hearts.

Now how you know when God is saying something to you, is a pretty good topic for another thread. Let's leave it at that I believe God wants me to be with her and do my best to make everything work and be a good husband and parent, and she believes God doesn't want her with me at the moment and instead she has to gain experiences... for some reason.. without me..

quote:

As a mother of a marriageable young lady, these are unfortunate words. Stay with me, I'm not mad. God gives children to parents with authority and obligation to raise, train, provide and protect them. We pour 18 years of our lives, money, interest and health into our children, whether we do it well or not. For some young guy who has been an adult for only a year or two and can't support himself yet to come along and think his opinion is more important than her parents is presumptuous and ridiculous. Were this my daughter, I'd be giving you the hairy eyeball at this point and my husband would want to have a long talk with you.


2 things. 1) I sure would want my opinion to matter more to her than her parents or anyone's except God's. 2) Its not just my opinion, I'm talking also about HER opinion. She may think that being with me is right, but her parents influence her so much that she feels guilty. Give guilt enough time and inthe end you'll change your mind. People with addictions for example might have been having big amounts of guilt over very long periods of time. Some of them end up despising themselves and think they are worthless. This case can be similar although not to such an extreme.

Now before you get upset about number 1 above, let me ask you cause you seem to tell me a lot about how many wrong things I ask for from a gf. (this is assuming a bit too much, so sorry if I'm wrong, but maybe you've been a mom and married so long you don't remember exactly what being single is like) If you were single and wanted a guy to marry, would you not want him to love you first? To want to be with you? to value your opinion more than that of his parents? If you are honest, I'm almost certain the answer to all would be yes. So I don't get what I've asked that's so wrong. If my own gf can't love or want to be with me, well I'm not gonna "force" her to(I can't anyway). I'll try to fix it, I'll give it time too, but if she won't change and has no intention of ever changing to fit my basic needs, then yes I'll move on. But I don't see how your needs should go down the drain until you are married and suddenly BAM you demand things from your wife. I personally think that aside from sex and kids, you can have everything else in a relationship and don't need a marriage for it. You and some people may find asking those things of her improper, but I don't and I don't see anywhere in the bible saying its improper.

quote:

This isn't healthy love, this is desperation. Health wants healthy. Repeated messing up indicates maturity and character problems that need to be fixed before marrying.


No it is love. Like I said in my PM I think, how is being willing to be with someone even if they hurt you, not love? God wants to be with us and He knows we are gonna hurt His "feelings"(if He has feelings or something else I don't know!) I'm actually kinda proud of myself that I'm able to love someone that much. If only I had the same desire to be with other people(not in a relationship way) I'd probably be able to influence more lives towards Christ.

As for messing up, from what she's told me and what I consider the mess up we have different views on it. She considers a mess up that she knew she couldnt be with me but stayed cause she wanted to, then left me again, then came back, then again. She thinks that hurt me more than if she had just left me at the start and stuck with it. Personally if God really is telling her not to be with me, then she messed up with following what He wants, but she didnt mess up with me, only because what I care for is the fact that she can't be with me. I don't mind much the getting my hopes up, then disappointed again. The way I see it if she just stuck to leaving me from the start I'd just be disappointed constantly. Now what I consider the mess up I guess comes from not being able to completely believe that God would ask this of her. Its not cause I want to be with her so much, its what I said before, that there is simply no verse in the bible backing this behavior of hers up or anything reasonable. I said the rest before, I won't repeat myself since this is getting like extremely long.

quote:

Warpspeed, there are some tidbits of social life to be gleened from the Victorians that are worth keeping. Men are bigger and stronger than women, but a gentleman always takes a lady at her word when she says no. And he doesn't ask why. This protects the weaker and more tender interests of the woman from a man's superior strength, and it allows her to go the direction she wants to go without having to get another man to protect her from the first one. It's based on giving her what she wants, and is a form of biblical love (considering another person's interests more important than your own).


1st honestly I don't care much for gentleman stuff. If I find something thats considered to be gentlemanly right then sure, I'll do it but not because of it being gentlemanly. Basically, I'm going to be myself. 2nd this isn't one of them. She doesn't need to get a man to protect me from her. I'm not gonna fly all the way there and punch her or something for all this. But anyway, no I don't believe a man should take a lady at her word when she says no and leave it at that. If I were to go the "gentlemanly" way I'd give up on her completely the way she's been acting. But I love her and wont give up on her. And don't worry, if she really wants me to give up on her in the end, she'll get her wish. Without needing a guy to protect her. And if I was angry enough for her to need one, he'd probably be in more danger than her because I wouldn't hit a girl unless it was self defense. (btw this isn't meant to be taken completely seriously)

quote:

A gentleman would never ask a lady to do something that made her feel guilty.


Thats a too narrow approach. What if a wife feels guilty having sex with her husband for some reason that God doesn't think its a reason to feel guilty about? Should the husband do nothing and sit and wait? I'm not asking her to stay with me and keep feeling guilty. I want to find out why she feels guilty and fix that first. I wouldn't ask her to be with me until thats done. And in case it wasn't implied or I didn't say it, I haven't asked her to stay with me. I've only tried to understand this more and fix it if I can.

quote:

Take this as a friendly punch in the shoulder: do you suppose God knows more what's good for her than you do?


absolutely. Most of this thread is about if it isn't God leading her but something else.

quote:

You're not married, you're asking/demanding her love when you are not married, and you're pushing her when she feels God, her parents and interests are leading her away from you. I think you feel it's hard to believe that God won't give you want you want so badly. That's kind of insulting to God, to make Him subservient to your wishes.


I'm sorry but parents and interests are nowhere near enough to tell me she can't be with me. God is more than enough. If a girl expects to dump me for her interests and thinks I'll be happy about it, no way. How would you feel if your husband before you got married dumped you cause he wants to play basketball in china or something like that. Sounds crazy?

quote:

Or an airline pilot. Marriage and parenting first of all require the people to be able to give the mate/screaming baby what they need (which isn't instinctual - you need training) when the person is sacrificing what they need. And keep doing it for 30 years. It's not for sissies or untrained people.


I said the same in my PM so I agree with you here. As for the training, it can come at the same time. Some people learn faster under pressure and will be fine. Lots of "untrained" people have had babies or marriages and turned out fine

quote:

You gonna jump in the pool before you can swim?


Sure, everyone has to. First time you put a child in the water they are gonna freak out. Maybe I'll freak out too, but I won't drown. Who learns to swim without jumping in the pool first anyway?

quote:

Whoa, stop. When a person says "unfair" it usually means they aren't getting what they think they should have. Check yourself for coveteousness.


Well if you don't believe people should ask for things before marriage then yes by your standards I am not getting something I think I should have and you think I shouldn't necessarily.

quote:

So if you couldn't marry her then you'd quit college and flip hamburgers the rest of your life? Live in a tent? Or are you preparing for the rest of your life, to do well, no matter who is in your arms? Will you be able to support a family someday if you don't marry her? Will you have children with the wife God gives you?


Honestly I don't know what I would do. I guess if I give up on her completely someday I'll find out.

quote:

Right. God may be leading you in a way you don't know, and it will be wonderful and none of us deserve it. We are sinners and all we deserve is death and hell.
But God gives us eternal life and forgiveness of sin and His love and His blessings on earth. None of us deserve that, but we get it. Rejoice!


this is why I wrote "deserve". I know about all this and had in mind and have it every time I write or see the word deserve. Still, do you think people deserve to be safe? If not, then why does everyone suggest to abused wives to get seperated? You can twist and turn it but in the end its because someone believes so strongly they deserve to be safe that they don't even realize they think they deserve it. Its taken for granted that their safety far outweighs the immature(or however else you want to characterize) failings of their husband.(and yes I'm actually all for seperation too in most cases). In the end people need some things that they "deserve". But again if you feel one shouldn't need anything out of a relationship but only out of a marriage then yes by your point of view I don't "deserve" anything.

quote:

If God is leading her away from you and you are resisting God, spending time with her is unreasonable and worse.


No in this case she wasn't argueing that. I never told her to stay with me if God is asking her not to. I told her to spend time with me when she wanted to do something else. Simply wanted, not asked by God to do that thing. Its as simple as the examples I used. Picking watching tv over doing something with your wife.

quote:

Are you dictating what she should feel? That's dangerous. Look at the marriage threads to see why.


Depends on what you mean by dictating. Its what I would want from my gf or wife to be like. If she doesn't want to be with me and won't change, like I said above, I won't demand that she does or force her to, ill simply say goodbye when my patience runs out. Well not from my wife, but part of me would want to.

quote:

They are her parents. If you want the girl, you have to follow their stupid rules. And maybe they aren't so stupid. There was a guy who was interested in our kid, and you should have seen the rules we laid on him. We were testing him and protecting both of them from themselves.


Test all you want. Protecting them from themselves IS thinking of them as immature and weak. Its insulting, disrespectful and shows a lack of trust towards us. If you are fine with being all that then go ahead. If your daughter was 30 years old and her bf too would you still lay all those rules on them?

quote:

No yelling, no anger, just motherly advice and a caring heart. I wish my husband were here to put a fatherly arm around your shoulder. Learn from this, Warpspeed, and trust God to give you His best, not your best. You'll find you won't be disappointed. He made you and He knows what you need and already has plans. Part of that may be a test for you.


Maybe. I try to see it as a test sometimes but its hard to do so. Maybe eventually I'll get it and grow stronger out of this.



herestoresmysoul -> RE: God and gf (11/4/2009 4:57:21 AM)

warpspeed I agree with deermousie. For whatever reason (and it doesnt really matter if it is God or not )she isnt ready for a serious relationship and doesnt want to be in one.
God may well be telling her to back off. You may well not be right for each other, and God may well have someone else for both you and her.Even if it isnt God, she clearly is wanting to end this relationship it seems to me. I dont knowe why she keeps on and on breaking up with you and coming back,as that is cruel to you, she really needs to do it once and stick to it if that is what she wants.I think she is far too immature for marriage from what you said.

The only thing you can do is to let her go. If you stop contact, then she will know if you are the right one for her, but while you are doing all the running and she is doing all the avioding it will never work. Relationships and marriages take 2 committd people. She is not committed. Its no good if one wants the relationship and one doesnt. I am sorry to have to say these things but do you really want a wife/girlfriend who really doesnt want you 100%? I cant think of anything worse that being with a person who really doesn't want to be with me.

If you let her go,then trust God that if it is what he wants he will bring you back together at the right time.(maybe when she has grown up more)



warpspeed10 -> RE: God and gf (11/4/2009 5:16:31 AM)

quote:

warpspeed I agree with deermousie. For whatever reason (and it doesnt really matter if it is God or not )she isnt ready for a serious relationship and doesnt want to be in one.
God may well be telling her to back off. You may well not be right for each other, and God may well have someone else for both you and her.Even if it isnt God, she clearly is wanting to end this relationship it seems to me. I dont knowe why she keeps on and on breaking up with you and coming back,as that is cruel to you, she really needs to do it once and stick to it if that is what she wants.I think she is far too immature for marriage from what you said.

The only thing you can do is to let her go. If you stop contact, then she will know if you are the right one for her, but while you are doing all the running and she is doing all the avioding it will never work. Relationships and marriages take 2 committd people. She is not committed. Its no good if one wants the relationship and one doesnt. I am sorry to have to say these things but do you really want a wife/girlfriend who really doesnt want you 100%? I cant think of anything worse that being with a person who really doesn't want to be with me.

If you let her go,then trust God that if it is what he wants he will bring you back together at the right time.(maybe when she has grown up more)


This is basically the conclusion I've reached too. I told her too that I don't think shes ready either. Whether its because God is telling her not to be with me(then she simply can't do the things I need, though its not her "fault"), or .. and hopefully not.. because she really doesn't want to be with me but hasn't completely realized it yet.

As for why she comes back, like I said, I personally thought we simply talked and things got better and she changed her mind, but instead, turns out she kept feeling guilty all along, just wanted to be with me so much that she disobeyed God to be with me. She has a small bad habit of not telling me some things right away, actually its more of a general thing of her being generally introverted a bit this way with everyone, but whatever.

Honestly I have no problem.. well thats a lie, I'll be really sad for a long time.. until she can be with me again, but I will let her go if its God saying so. The problem I'm so scared of is that maybe its what Keithy said. And she really doesn't like me. I would never believe that but lately there are just so many things she does that point to that but they aren't things God has asked of her. God hasn't asked her to like her art or college or certain things she can experience more than talking to me. And even though she told me its important to her months ago that she gets to know me more in rl, just a few days ago suddenly she decided that God didn't make people to be in long distance relationships (which I totally disagree with) so basically she thinks being with me without getting to know me more in real life would be going against God now...

Honestly I can't say I dont have my own doubts lately. I haven't had not one doubt ever until lately and she's been having them for months... most guys would have probably let her go a long time ago, but I still trust that she really loves me, but after all this I can't help but worry a bit that she might not after all.



GregandJenny -> RE: God and gf (11/4/2009 10:56:36 AM)

I think sometimes as men it is hard for us to be told no by a woman. Part of the problem is that as Christian men we are taught to be loyal, a keep our commitments and this particular area of dating we work really hard in a relationship that we want and when it's not going our way we can't let go because we are being "loyal" to our promise. In that we try to hard brother to hold on tight that in our insecurities we get over bearing, invasive and down right manipulative to get what we think God wants as if His spirit can't complete his will.

being in love, especially with the "one" we want to marry crates a fog, where we might disallusioned and disoriented and our focus becomes on many things, when our focus needs to be on Jesus.

I encourage you to pray, seek Godly men, live your life as if she is part but not all of your life. Be still for a while, and Let the Holy Spirit Speak with you, he will deliver to you the truth.

G



GregandJenny -> RE: God and gf (11/4/2009 11:00:37 AM)

Here's a link to an article in a few posts down that Fritz posted

Immeasurably More



deermousie -> RE: God and gf (11/4/2009 11:40:10 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: keithyhuntington
you like a girl, but OOOHHHHHh god says she can't date you. i think thats bull. the girl just doesnt like the guy, but feels too bad to say that, so she cops out and blames the breakup on God... poor God... what did he do to deserve this treatment? ever since the begining of time, girls/boys have been blaming their break-ups on God, when the fact of the matter is... they just don't like the other person anymore. but you can't argue with God (as mouse said) so its the perfect excuse. no pain, no blame. "God doesnt agree with this. adios!" and you just have to stand there and accept it.


I had a guy cop out on me with this excuse once, too, and it was really insulting. But he was right - our relationship wasn't God's will, but it was because God wasn't going to give me to a selfish guy who didn't know God's plan. The guy thought he was being clever, not knowing I was the one who dodged a bullet.

I'm the mother of a marriageable young lady, and I know my husband and I are not to give her in marriage to a non-Christian or a guy who isn't ready to support a family or doesn't know how marriage and life works. It's no cop out; God gives good gifts, not half-baked ones that aren't ready to take the stress of life. Life is hard sometimes... most times.

quote:

i agree with mouse though, you gotta stranglehold on this girl. shes hemming and hawing, i say just let it go. as soon as i met my wife we both KNEW beyond a doubt we were 'the one.' if she's hemming and hawing and balking, chances are it was just the lust of the flesh, not a real legit love.


I agree with Keith. I dated for two decades (yes, I'm old as dirt [:D]) and when I met the guy I later married, we knew. There was no effort (that came after the wedding. Colicky babies are a lot of effort!). Our pastors and friends all were in favor of the match; our parents were, too.



KaptZ -> RE: God and gf (11/4/2009 11:51:06 AM)

Warpspeed-

I agree with much of the other postings.

Hard as it seems to face. I'd say you just have to let her go.

Good Luck!



bolt. -> RE: God and gf (11/4/2009 12:07:18 PM)

I just don't see what kind of a guy really wants to be with a girl that doesn't want that too -- and wants God to make sure that happens for him. It's a recipe for disaster.

Leave the girl alone... and don't even think about getting married until you have a grasp on the concepts of personal respect that dearmousie is trying ever so diligently to be a teacher to you about. Trust me, it's easier to learn from teachers than from life lessons.

Love and commitment is for marriage. Dating is for evaluation and assessment of a possible match. What you are doing is pretending that a job interview is an employment contract. It's not -- and neither the girl nor God have any reason to live up to your expectation of this being permanent.

You are free in your heart to continue to focus on her. But you are a brute if you keep harassing her with deep conversations and attempts to convince her of the rightness of this 'relationship'.



Elena1030 -> RE: God and gf (11/4/2009 12:59:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bolt.

I just don't see what kind of a guy really wants to be with a girl that doesn't want that too -- and wants God to make sure that happens for him. It's a recipe for disaster.

Leave the girl alone... and don't even think about getting married until you have a grasp on the concepts of personal respect that dearmousie is trying ever so diligently to be a teacher to you about. Trust me, it's easier to learn from teachers than from life lessons.

Love and commitment is for marriage. Dating is for evaluation and assessment of a possible match. What you are doing is pretending that a job interview is an employment contract. It's not -- and neither the girl nor God have any reason to live up to your expectation of this being permanent.

You are free in your heart to continue to focus on her. But you are a brute if you keep harassing her with deep conversations and attempts to convince her of the rightness of this 'relationship'.



Thank you for saying this, bolt. I pray that many would read your statement and take heed. Too many folks take the attitude that their strong feelings for another give them the right to demand any number of emotional, verbal, and physical responses from the beloved, even if the beloved doesn't wish to be loved by the person. And a demanding love really isn't a true one in the first place... but is rather, a strong desire, one that creates strings, ropes, chains even. It becomes a prison and not a wide-open space or garden (which the Bible likens real love to).


warpspeed10,

While some have used the "God told me" bit as a cop-out, it's not always so. I'll give you an example.

I liked a guy I was dating, but I had some great misgivings about him and about the strength of us as a match. And I wasn't sure if I was giving appropriate weight to the factors I was assessing in my mind. I truly did seek God's wisdom and input and guidance about all the subissues and the overall issue. And I came to the conclusion together with Him.

But the guy didn't want to believe me. He believed his feelings more. And he believed very strongly that God was leading us to be together.

What he was mistaking for a romantic connection was just a personal and sibling connection for the purpose of ministry as a team (which is how we started to get to know each other). Eventually, he let me go in his heart. And he found another. A woman far more suited to him, and he is to her. And now they are married with newborn twins, and he adopted her other child as his own.


So please, ramp down your eagerness to far, far less than warp speed. [;)]

The woman who loves you freely on her own, with no ounce of coercion from you, is the one you want. And for whatever reason, this woman isn't her. That should be sufficient enough --- while you're hurting and grieving, no reason seems sufficient enough to warrant the loss.



laura... -> RE: God and gf (11/4/2009 3:44:20 PM)

Is God in control or isn't He?

If God wants the two of you to marry then God will work out her feelings not you. If God is in control then God will bring the two of you together and work it all out...He doesn't need your help convincing her. If she's not ready for a committed relationship with you then God hasn't made her ready. If she isn't sure then God hasn't made her sure.

You're fighting God. Give it up.



warpspeed10 -> RE: God and gf (11/4/2009 4:13:55 PM)

quote:

Is God in control or isn't He?

If God wants the two of you to marry then God will work out her feelings not you. If God is in control then God will bring the two of you together and work it all out...He doesn't need your help convincing her. If she's not ready for a committed relationship with you then God hasn't made her ready. If she isn't sure then God hasn't made her sure.

You're fighting God. Give it up.


So you would agree parents shouldn't teach their kids things either? Since God is in control, He'll be the one to decide when the kids are ready to learn something.

I'm not fighting God. I've said it repeatedly that if God really wants her not to be with me, there's nothing I can do. I'm "fighting" the case that maybe its not God and its just something else that can be fixed.

Likewise I've said before that I HAVE let her go. Some of you may find it brutal to keep talking about it but I don't. And until she finds it brutal I don't see a reason to stop.

It seems lots have misunderstood me, but whatever. I can't blame you, its a very long post and its hard to take everything into consideration, or understand where I'm coming from. And there are things I probably haven't mentioned.



laura... -> RE: God and gf (11/4/2009 4:37:25 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: warpspeed10

quote:

Is God in control or isn't He?

If God wants the two of you to marry then God will work out her feelings not you. If God is in control then God will bring the two of you together and work it all out...He doesn't need your help convincing her. If she's not ready for a committed relationship with you then God hasn't made her ready. If she isn't sure then God hasn't made her sure.

You're fighting God. Give it up.


So you would agree parents shouldn't teach their kids things either? Since God is in control, He'll be the one to decide when the kids are ready to learn something.


God uses parents to teach their children. Her parents have apparently taught her well as she is not jumping into a relationship that she is not ready for and that God has not given her His assurance that it is His will.

quote:

I'm not fighting God. I've said it repeatedly that if God really wants her not to be with me, there's nothing I can do. I'm "fighting" the case that maybe its not God and its just something else that can be fixed.


Since she believes that it is God leading her to not be with her then it is God that will have to correct her if she is wrong. This isn't something that you can fix. And forcing the issue very well could be you fighting God. If God really wants you two to marry He'll fix it. Trust God.

quote:

Likewise I've said before that I HAVE let her go. Some of you may find it brutal to keep talking about it but I don't. And until she finds it brutal I don't see a reason to stop.

It seems lots have misunderstood me, but whatever. I can't blame you, its a very long post and its hard to take everything into consideration, or understand where I'm coming from. And there are things I probably haven't mentioned.


I can't find where you've stated that you have let her go in your posts



deermousie -> RE: God and gf (11/4/2009 8:09:54 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: laura...
I can't find where you've stated that you have let her go in your posts


He mentioned it; I saw it.



georgerobbyjr -> RE: God and gf (11/8/2009 10:41:20 PM)

I think long distance relationships only work when a time-specified plan is in place for 1 of the parties to move to the country and city the other party lives in. I had 2 ldr's, one that resulted in marriage, and 1 that resulted in the girl being forced to join the navy), and neither relationship was any fun in its original state. Furthermore, after a person has dumped you more than once, jeez, why go back? If love is only 1 directional (ie. giving but not receiving) what is the point? Worse yet, perhaps she isn't emotionally stable. Would you dump someone 6 times, and then get back together with them? Also, how can you wait for someone who feels they don't know you well enough.
What do your emotions have to do with God? Just because you feel attached and smitten with a woman doesn't mean God wants you to be with her, he may desire quite the opposite. Do you think every time you fall in love it is from God? I wish my thoughts and emotions were completely on par with God's will, but I doubt they are. Anyway I see you have let the girl go since you feel she isn't ready, a wise decision. I just had a few ideas for next time. Hahaha, your name says it all, slow down! Sorry, couldn't resist. Pray that you will learn from this and that God will give you a suitable woman at the right time.



rockominal -> RE: God and gf (11/9/2009 4:35:54 AM)

As far as I'm concerned my man, this is a blessing in disguise.[;)]
You have gone off the chain for her thus far. I don't know what she's into right now, and are you sure you know what she's into? C'mon. You have the romantic flare going on so stop wasting it. Red flag number one: my family doesn't like you (?) or you don't actually appeal to them or some such? Is that supposed to be some sort of caveat? Just take a deep breath for awhile and take this stuff down a few notches. You DO NOT want to get mixed up with a "family" that doesn't particularly care for you. That is the last thing you will ever want on you "to do" list. Consider that a noose around your neck that you willhave to wear for the rest of your life. Even if you do overcome it, it will be like walking on egg shells. One wrong move and you are toast. Like I said, this is a blessing in disguise. This is a long distance relationship? That's great. The longer the distance the better. I would at this point be more concerned about your own functionality. Seriously. It's no longer about if she's the "right" chick for you or if you are right for her. You have to get on with just stuff in general and keep moving. You aren't even engaged to this chick? By all means, stop doing this. I'm serious man. Let her relatives find her a boyfriend or something. What's going on during the day with you now since this thing is long distance? Play the new kid on the block and start talking to some other people and just take some chick to a movie or something. Just ask somebody to go out, no commitment, go get some food, watch the show, talk about stuff, and take advantage of where you are right now. Mingle with the crowd and integrate with others. You are actually estranged from her and her relatives as far as I can see. Can you imagine actually being married to her and still live as a stranger to her and her relatives? Take it from me, you don't "warm up" to people. It's like that actress said to Al Pacino in the movie Sea of Love that came on the movie channel. "I believe in love at first sight." I believe in that spark! I believe in this :: she snaps her fingers::. " And I'm not getting that from you." Al Pacino was secretly holding back, which is why.
Well it relates to people in general. It either clicks or it doesn't. You aren't going to get this chick away from her relatives EVER, if that is indeed part of the reason she doesn't want to be with you. Don't make this mistake because it ain't gonna happen. You are in good shape because you have the wherewithal to say arrivederci, it's been fun, with NO guilt or strings whatsoever attached. Hurry up and get onto something else.



creationtalk -> RE: God and gf (11/9/2009 9:48:51 PM)

Frankly, warpspeed, If you were interested in my daughter you would scare me to death.

quote:

I'm highly against this all. If its a couple of vows that make the difference between sticking it out and giving it up so easily, then I'd feel sad for the people involved. It should be love and it should be something they want to do, not afraid of not doing. And since when shouldn't you stick it out in relationships or even friendships? I don't know of any verse that somehow encourages you to give up on friendships or relationships.


Dating/courtship is for two people to get to know each other to see if they want to commit. A dating relationship is NOT a commitment. It can be ended at any time by either party for any reason. And let me tell you, for me, someone telling me that I CAN'T end a relationship with them is a good hint that I BETTER end the relationship because he is at best controlling and at worst dangerous.

quote:

The only verse I know that even remotely suggests something against this is the one that says not to get dragged down by unbelievers. Which to me doesn't say run away from them; Jesus Himself was around them all the time. I bet some of them did all kinds of dangerous things most christians today would advise other christians to run away and never get in contact with said person again.

There is a BIG difference between associating with non-believers/sinners as a MINISTRY...but did you notice, Jesus did not date or marry any of them. Furthermore, his core group of friends and the people he hung out with when he was relaxing or having fun were his DISCIPLES and other people who believed he was the Messiah. May I point out that Jesus did NOT spend a lot of time with the religious folks that wanted to control what he did, said, and thought.

quote:

As for letting go, no I can not and will not.

This hints of obsession. It is unhealthy and a bit frightening to me. If you are so convinced that she is the one that you are to marry, then letting her go should not be frightening.

The harder you hold tight to your gf, the harder she will struggle to get away.

quote:

I'm sorry but parents and interests are nowhere near enough to tell me she can't be with me. God is more than enough. If a girl expects to dump me for her interests and thinks I'll be happy about it, no way. How would you feel if your husband before you got married dumped you cause he wants to play basketball in china or something like that. Sounds crazy?

This more than hints of obsession...this practically screams obsession. Frankly, I'd a lot rather be dumped before the marriage than after...
BOLD: What makes you so sure that GOD says you are to be married to this woman? I have not seen anything in your posts to lead me to believe that you are ready for marriage. GOD selected her parents and gave them the obligation to lead her. God made her unique, with a unique set of interests. For you to now say that God made a mistake when he did all that and He's trying to correct it through you...pretty arrogant, wouldn't you say?

quote:

as far as I remember there is scripture that says God puts and fulfills the desires of our hearts.


Psalm 37:4 "Delight yourself in the Lord and he will give you the desires of your heart."

However, to presume that EVERY desire you have is given by God and will therefore be fulfilled by God is a dangerous extrapolation. Are you delighting yourself in the Lord? Can you honestly say to God and to us that if God never gives you this woman/girl as your wife you will be content and "delighted"? Hebrews 13:5b says "...be content with what you have, because God has said, 'Never will I leave you; never will I forsake you." You should be content with where you are because you are in God. This does not mean you should never strive for things, but until you are willing to let go what you WANT and yield completely to God and are content if all that you are ever given is the confidence of salvation and God...then God can work through and with you and give you desires that HE will fulfill.

quote:

1) I sure would want my opinion to matter more to her than her parents or anyone's except God's. 2) Its not just my opinion, I'm talking also about HER opinion. She may think that being with me is right, but her parents influence her so much that she feels guilty.

How do you know this is also HER opinion? From your posts it seems that it is what you THINK should be her opinion but she has told you that she is NOT ready for marriage.

I believe that you are violating scriptures when you encourage her to defy her parents. She is instructed BY GOD to HONOR her parents. Unless her parents are asking her to do things that are directly against GOD, then (at least) until such time as she is on her own and self-supporting, she has an obligation to follow their leading. You want your opinion to matter most to her? Then start by respecting her and her parents.

quote:

I don't care much for gentleman stuff.


Then perhaps we need to ask what you consider "gentleman" stuff. Because I expect a man to always be a gentleman. Please note, this does not mean opening doors, treating me like I'm helpless...it is respecting me as a co-heir through Christ, respecting the talents and abilities that God has given me, a protector (while recognizing when to let me protect myself), considerate, willing to trust me enough to set me free--to not try to tie me down and control me....

quote:


quote:

A gentleman would never ask a lady to do something that made her feel guilty.


Thats a too narrow approach. What if a wife feels guilty having sex with her husband for some reason that God doesn't think its a reason to feel guilty about? Should the husband do nothing and sit and wait? I'm not asking her to stay with me and keep feeling guilty. I want to find out why she feels guilty and fix that first.


BOLD: So now you can read God's mind and know what he thinks? Equating your position as a bf to that as a husband is inappropriate.

Italics: This may not be yours to fix. BTW--are you sure she feels guilty? And if she feels guilty, are you sure that you don't already know why? (as in she is going against the guidance of her parents, which she KNOWS is wrong, and therefore is feeling guilty...and you don't want to recognize that her opposing her parents is wrong, so you deny that you know why she feels guilty?)

quote:

I'm not fighting God. I've said it repeatedly that if God really wants her not to be with me, there's nothing I can do. I'm "fighting" the case that maybe its not God and its just something else that can be fixed.

Perhaps you are not fighting God...but you are not trusting Him either. If you trusted God with the outcome, you would back off. You can bring your petitions to God, but God is the one who brings them about IN HIS TIME. If you try to force God's timing, you run the risk of losing the very blessing that God had for you.



Page: [1]



Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.5 ANSI