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Burned by my church of 14 years, need advice - 11/3/2009 2:05:23 AM
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cachingweds
Posts: 61
Joined: 3/25/2009
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Okay, here goes. I have been a member of a local small church for the last 14 years. Recently, I suffered a major injury that required surgery and I have been homebound for a month and a half.
I requested at-home communion, which is supposedly offered to all shut-ins in this church.
I have been kept dangling for the past 6 weeks with nothing but excuses. Nobody from this supposedly big-hearted church has even called to ask how I am doing.
My husband also sustained a minor injury while caring for me, and for several days, we could not do basic chores or prepare a meal. All tolled, he missed about 10 days of work, and he does not get paid sick days. Still, not even one sniff in our direction.
This evening at the dinner hour, however, a member of the vestry called us demanding our pledges for tithing this year - and tonight was not the first time. With medical bills, we are not able to make rent this month. This church has refused me communion. And here they are hitting us up for money?! I am getting the impression that the ministries they tout so grandly like home communion and emergency meals for people just returning from hospital stays are only offered in exchange for large donations. (anybody here remember all those grade school history lessons on the selling of indulgences?)
I would willingly attend another church in my area, and have every intention of doing so as soon as my doctor says I can walk and drive. I sincerely want nothing more to do with this bunch of phonies. The problem is that the church gave my husband and I a loan during a tough financial period and we need to work out a repayment plan.
Should I send my old church a letter stating that I want no further contact with them? It seems that trying to communicate with them by phone does not work. Certainly their claims of compassion for shut-ins could be considered false advertising at the very best, and their demands for money are harassment. On the other hand, we will need to maintain some contact simply because we are repaying a debt. The key issue here is that I do not want any more calls concerning tithing to a church that has no regard for me or for scripture. (Gal 5:10 and James 2: 8-10 are a couple of passages that spring to mind).
Does anybody have any insight for this situation?
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RE: Burned by my church of 14 years, need advice - 11/3/2009 2:19:00 AM
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Covaan_Meshuga
Posts: 3177
Joined: 6/8/2005
From: being knit together in my mother's womb
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Apparently, from the fact that you requested home-communion, which they did not respond to, they know about your situation? You told them clearly that you are unable to attend? Do they perceive this as possibly unnecessary -- perhaps thinking that you can get to church but are not?
Did anyone tell them directly about your husband's injury?
The reason I ask is that sometimes, people think the churches are clairvoyant and somehow just "know" about their situation. So were you clear about what was going on?
I would not blame the person who called for your "tithe." They likely were just doing what they had been told to do -- doing a job. As a church employee, this happens, because not everyone knows every situation.
And what happened that someone knows that you didn't pay a particular amount? How does that come to be? I am not privy to that practice. Do they make you say what you will pay them for a "tithe"? Did you sign a promissory note for this?
But whatever you do, be careful with letters. Depending upon the church, a letter can come back to bite you. If you are going to write a letter, be very careful about what you write. If you need a reference letter from that church in order to switch churches (as can happen in some churches, they could cause trouble if they are the type.
I would be very careful in the future about making written promises for money. As with most churches, they completely misunderstand the tithe when they command you to pay it to them.
_____________________________
While in prayer or praise, I am only as devoted to G-d as I am in my most private moments.
Abiyah, if you had known them as G-d knows them, you would have answered them differently.
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RE: Burned by my church of 14 years, need advice - 11/3/2009 6:17:25 AM
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cposey
Posts: 298
Joined: 8/20/2009
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Put your stock in God and not into the church!
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RE: Burned by my church of 14 years, need advice - 11/3/2009 6:31:43 AM
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keithyhuntington
Posts: 814
Joined: 7/7/2009
From: Tulsa, Okla.
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cposey
Put your stock in God and not into the church!
amen. if my church ever DEMANDED or ASKED for tithes on a personal level from me, i'd give em a mouthful. thats beyond rude. we know we're supposed to tith.. don't ask us. shoot.
_____________________________
Jesus Christ please help me 'cause i'm lonely. Whats the use in living, if you can't make a good living?
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RE: Burned by my church of 14 years, need advice - 11/3/2009 9:54:15 AM
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rcjames
Posts: 6723
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Covaan_Meshuga
Did anyone tell them directly about your husband's injury?
Very well could be a miscommunication along the line somewhere, the wife should contact the Pastor directly, explain the situation, and request communion.
As for the tithe phone call, many Church require the congregants to tithe and the congregant agree when they join. The name probably just came up on a "Please call to remind about tithes" list.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Burned by my church of 14 years, need advice - 11/3/2009 3:28:14 PM
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KaptZ
Posts: 158
Joined: 10/28/2009
From: The swamps of Jersey
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cachingweds
I would willingly attend another church in my area, and have every intention of doing so as soon as my doctor says I can walk and drive. I sincerely want nothing more to do with this bunch of phonies. The problem is that the church gave my husband and I a loan during a tough financial period and we need to work out a repayment plan.
I would concentrate on repaying the loan as if it was to a bank. Pay it off as quickly as possible and politely as possible move on to another church.
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RE: Burned by my church of 14 years, need advice - 11/3/2009 5:06:12 PM
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TheosCentric
Posts: 2690
Joined: 2/26/2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cachingweds
Okay, here goes. I have been a member of a local small church for the last 14 years. Recently, I suffered a major injury that required surgery and I have been homebound for a month and a half.
I requested at-home communion, which is supposedly offered to all shut-ins in this church.
I have been kept dangling for the past 6 weeks with nothing but excuses. Nobody from this supposedly big-hearted church has even called to ask how I am doing.
My husband also sustained a minor injury while caring for me, and for several days, we could not do basic chores or prepare a meal. All tolled, he missed about 10 days of work, and he does not get paid sick days. Still, not even one sniff in our direction.
This evening at the dinner hour, however, a member of the vestry called us demanding our pledges for tithing this year - and tonight was not the first time. With medical bills, we are not able to make rent this month. This church has refused me communion. And here they are hitting us up for money?! I am getting the impression that the ministries they tout so grandly like home communion and emergency meals for people just returning from hospital stays are only offered in exchange for large donations. (anybody here remember all those grade school history lessons on the selling of indulgences?)
I would willingly attend another church in my area, and have every intention of doing so as soon as my doctor says I can walk and drive. I sincerely want nothing more to do with this bunch of phonies. The problem is that the church gave my husband and I a loan during a tough financial period and we need to work out a repayment plan.
Should I send my old church a letter stating that I want no further contact with them? It seems that trying to communicate with them by phone does not work. Certainly their claims of compassion for shut-ins could be considered false advertising at the very best, and their demands for money are harassment. On the other hand, we will need to maintain some contact simply because we are repaying a debt. The key issue here is that I do not want any more calls concerning tithing to a church that has no regard for me or for scripture. (Gal 5:10 and James 2: 8-10 are a couple of passages that spring to mind).
Does anybody have any insight for this situation?
I see a number of problems with this church that others seem to have missed.
1) Nobody has called to ask how you were doing.
2) Refused communion.
3) Tithe pledges. Tithes should be from the heart, not based on what you pledge to give a head of time. What if your financial situation changes?
4) You took a loan from the church? That raises all sorts of red flags. Do they not have a benevolence ministry for such things?
My advice, since you haven't reached anyone else is to try to get a hold of a pastor. If you can't get a hold of even a pastor, there's a problem, esp. since it's apparently a small church. He's not doing his job. Deacons apparently are not doing their job.
I, too, would hesitate to write a letter. Instead, find a new church if you cannot resolve the issue with the pastor. If the new church requires a letter or a resolution with your previous church, then explain the situation that you have been unable to resolve it. They might be able to help you resolve it or accept you anyway. I hope this helps you.
_____________________________
God uses our bad will to accomplish His good will. - R.C. Sproul
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RE: Burned by my church of 14 years, need advice - 11/3/2009 5:16:09 PM
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Kat_D
Posts: 1406
Joined: 9/2/2005
From: Where We Shake, Rattle & Roll!
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quote:
I sincerely want nothing more to do with this bunch of phonies. The problem is that the church gave my husband and I a loan during a tough financial period and we need to work out a repayment plan.
Betcha you weren't calling them a "bunch of phonies" when they bailed you out during your "tough financial period"...just sayin!
They failed to give you communion when you had surgery, so you're ready to write them off without checking to see if there was an unfortunate miscommunication somewhere? It happens. Perhaps the person that was supposed to come out to see you got sick or something. You need to call and talk to your pastor about this before you do anything drastic.
_____________________________
~Kat
"...And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes...no more death, sorrow, nor crying."
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RE: Burned by my church of 14 years, need advice - 11/3/2009 6:00:49 PM
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cachingweds
Posts: 61
Joined: 3/25/2009
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Hi, all. Thanks for the responses.
Some clarifications:
1. Yes, they knew about my situation. The rector visited me briefly in the hospital, and he's the one who told me I could request home communion. A member of the choir is a family friend, and he has also passed the word. The only contact I have had from them on that front was one phone call from a deacon to tell me she could come sometime that week, but she never set a time, never called back, and never showed. I have repeatedly called, as has my husband, asking for this and not getting an answer. This has been going on since the end of september -- not just a one-time occurrence.
2. The loan was a no-interest loan, and it does need to be paid back to the church. It was taken out several years ago when hubby and I lost our house -- we literally closed on the sale five minutes before forclosure went into effect. That loan helped us get into a new place to live, buy groceries, etc. And yes, it was benevolence, at least the episcopalian version of it. The lord giveth, and you payeth it back.
3. regarding the pledges --There is no specific amount requested, but to encourage tithing, our church uses a pledge card program like PBS. That night was also not the first time they had called, and they haven't even mailed us our card yet. Yes, the guy who called was probably just working off of a list, but with most of the people including the rector aware that we now have large medical bills, you'd think that they'd manage to be polite about it.
All I really want to do is pay off the loan and go somewhere else. The big donors in the local nursing homes get all kinds of pastoral care. My family, however, doesn't seem to qulaify. For 14 years, DH and I have volunteered, baked, tithed, and regarded these people as family, and now we have been dumped like a load of old smelly garbage.
Since we are well aware of the debt but they have kept calling us about pledges, could this be seen as harassment under the FDCPA? I just want them to stop calling. We already have too many bills, and there's no way I'm pledging to that church now.
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RE: Burned by my church of 14 years, need advice - 11/3/2009 6:08:19 PM
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Covaan_Meshuga
Posts: 3177
Joined: 6/8/2005
From: being knit together in my mother's womb
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Please don't start think lawsuit, if you are. That will not solve all the real issues. Just get caller ID, and if you can, give their calls a specific ring, then ignore them. But continue paying what you owe -- that's only right, because you said you would.
_____________________________
While in prayer or praise, I am only as devoted to G-d as I am in my most private moments.
Abiyah, if you had known them as G-d knows them, you would have answered them differently.
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RE: Burned by my church of 14 years, need advice - 11/3/2009 7:00:26 PM
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TheosCentric
Posts: 2690
Joined: 2/26/2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Covaan_Meshuga
I think we all saw those things. They were addressed . 
I didn't see anyone address anything except blaming the OP for the problems.
_____________________________
God uses our bad will to accomplish His good will. - R.C. Sproul
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RE: Burned by my church of 14 years, need advice - 11/3/2009 7:41:23 PM
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manda59
Posts: 8175
Joined: 9/22/2005
From: Hampshire, UK
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Edited to remove quote that has been deleted for TOS.
I personally think it's only right to give your church one more chance to get things right. After all, your leaders are just fallible human beings, as are we all, and they might just have made a mistake. They may be mortified when they realise - or are you suggesting they neglected you on purpose?
And besides, they DID help you out before when you were in need. My church is great for helping people but no way would they have done what your church did before in giving you that loan. At least try giving them another chance before you make any decisions.
< Message edited by Kath -- 11/3/2009 9:46:06 PM >
_____________________________
"Manda.....you said what I tried to say, just much better"
sharonjef, October 2009
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RE: Burned by my church of 14 years, need advice - 11/3/2009 10:28:38 PM
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prophet
Posts: 687
Joined: 4/19/2005
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If they asked me to tithe, i will ask them to build the temple in Jerusalem first so that i can offer my tithes there!
_____________________________
Create in me a Clean Heart, O Lord.
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RE: Burned by my church of 14 years, need advice - 11/4/2009 8:35:52 AM
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seagullplayer
Posts: 332
Joined: 9/18/2007
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You accepted a loan two years ago and have yet to pay it back?
You where in this Church for 14 years;
How many cards did you send the sick in the congregation?
How many interest free loans did you make to people in need?
How many meals did you take to people in need?
How many people did you visit in the hospital, nursing home?
Home many home bound did you take out for the day?
When where you a father to the fatherless? Or help to a widow?
You don’t mind asking them for something, but get upset when they ask you.
Don’t worry about a letter, I think they will understand.
Two sides to every story...
_____________________________
The world has only one problem, sin.
There is only one solution, Jesus.
Seems a lot of people watch evangelist on TV and call it going to church.
My kids use to play Mario Cart and think they where driving…
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RE: Burned by my church of 14 years, need advice - 11/4/2009 11:05:24 AM
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Kat_D
Posts: 1406
Joined: 9/2/2005
From: Where We Shake, Rattle & Roll!
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quote:
ORIGINAL: prophet
If they asked me to tithe, i will ask them to build the temple in Jerusalem first so that i can offer my tithes there!
The thing that some seem to be missing here is that the OP said they made a pledge to their church. A pledge by definition is a binding promise to give the church a certain amount. With this in mind, I don't see it as the church asking for a tithe. They are just attempting to collect on the pledge.
The person who called may have no idea of this family's current financial hardship, so the OP needs to call the church and let them know they are unable to pay at this time.
Moral: Don't make pledges.
_____________________________
~Kat
"...And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes...no more death, sorrow, nor crying."
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RE: Burned by my church of 14 years, need advice - 11/7/2009 8:23:48 PM
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souljaboy
Posts: 23
Joined: 11/3/2009
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Catchingweds, your situation could be repeated time and time again as too many churches are run as business organisations, not as the body of Christ or family.
A lot of problems arise because of perceptions and the reality is something different. I have decided to live a day at a time because the scripture says to take no thought for tomorrow. Today's problems may not be tomorows problems and vica versa. Therefore no church should if they are exercising grace should demand anything. Apart from the fact that so called "pledges" are not scriptual. The only instruction was to put aside money as the Lord has blessed you and then at the appropiate time give it to the church.
If your finances go into a negative situation, you are not obliged to give anything to the church. Tithes are not scriptual anyway as they are only mentioned twice in the NT both by Jesus when he was telling off the Pharisees. The word is never used in any instruction given to the church about giving.
What is important to me is integrity and if someone says they will do something and don't, I question their integrity. The scriptures says to let your yes be yes and your no be no. If they have promised to bring you communion in the home, that is what should happen.
Unfortunately a lot of ministers have not grasped that they are there to serve the congregation. The congregation is not there to give them a platform for their ministry. When that happens the servant spirit goes out the window and relationships break down.
Regarding the loan, you are free from any responsibility in that regards except to pay it back, whether you attend the church or you don't. To insist that you have to attend because of the loan is blackmail not grace.
There is nothing special about an interest free loan because that is what the scripture tells us to do. I lent my son money to start a business and have not charged him one cent of interest.
I would leave the ball in their court and let them know that you felt let down and have decided unless there is some resolution of the situation, you are going to make a move to another church. If that is the case, you thank them for all they have done in the past and wish them well.
Doing that will enable them to redress the situation and if that does not produce a response, you know where you stand.
< Message edited by souljaboy -- 11/7/2009 8:32:36 PM >
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RE: Burned by my church of 14 years, need advice - 11/9/2009 12:13:08 AM
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michele_erin
Posts: 101
Joined: 5/8/2006
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I'm sorry that you are so upset over this, but honestly, if you are leaving because they won't bring you communion and because they called about your tithe, you were looking for a reason to leave to begin with. I could tell you stories about my old church that would make your toenails curl -- and weren't even close to this and even in spite of all that we stayed until the Lord told us it was okay for us to leave and go some place else.
They probably call about financial contributions because as you said they are a "small congregation" so they do need help financially so that they can do certain things in the community, provide benevolence to those who need it, rent, lights, power, water, etc. The church has real needs -- a larger congregation, not nearly as big of a deal when people miss paying their tithe because there are many others there to help out.
I hope you get this sorted out.
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RE: Burned by my church of 14 years, need advice - 11/9/2009 1:10:44 AM
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Child4Jesus
Posts: 426
Joined: 5/24/2005
From: Long Island, Nassau, Elmont, NY
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cachingweds
Okay, here goes. I have been a member of a local small church for the last 14 years. Recently, I suffered a major injury that required surgery and I have been homebound for a month and a half.
I requested at-home communion, which is supposedly offered to all shut-ins in this church.
I have been kept dangling for the past 6 weeks with nothing but excuses. Nobody from this supposedly big-hearted church has even called to ask how I am doing.
My husband also sustained a minor injury while caring for me, and for several days, we could not do basic chores or prepare a meal. All tolled, he missed about 10 days of work, and he does not get paid sick days. Still, not even one sniff in our direction.
This evening at the dinner hour, however, a member of the vestry called us demanding our pledges for tithing this year - and tonight was not the first time. With medical bills, we are not able to make rent this month. This church has refused me communion. And here they are hitting us up for money?! I am getting the impression that the ministries they tout so grandly like home communion and emergency meals for people just returning from hospital stays are only offered in exchange for large donations. (anybody here remember all those grade school history lessons on the selling of indulgences?)
I would willingly attend another church in my area, and have every intention of doing so as soon as my doctor says I can walk and drive. I sincerely want nothing more to do with this bunch of phonies. The problem is that the church gave my husband and I a loan during a tough financial period and we need to work out a repayment plan.
Should I send my old church a letter stating that I want no further contact with them? It seems that trying to communicate with them by phone does not work. Certainly their claims of compassion for shut-ins could be considered false advertising at the very best, and their demands for money are harassment. On the other hand, we will need to maintain some contact simply because we are repaying a debt. The key issue here is that I do not want any more calls concerning tithing to a church that has no regard for me or for scripture. (Gal 5:10 and James 2: 8-10 are a couple of passages that spring to mind).
Does anybody have any insight for this situation?
quote:
ORIGINAL: TheosCentric
I see a number of problems with this church that others seem to have missed.
1) Nobody has called to ask how you were doing.
2) Refused communion.
3) Tithe pledges. Tithes should be from the heart, not based on what you pledge to give a head of time. What if your financial situation changes?
4) You took a loan from the church? That raises all sorts of red flags. Do they not have a benevolence ministry for such things?
My advice, since you haven't reached anyone else is to try to get a hold of a pastor. If you can't get a hold of even a pastor, there's a problem, esp. since it's apparently a small church. He's not doing his job. Deacons apparently are not doing their job.
I, too, would hesitate to write a letter. Instead, find a new church if you cannot resolve the issue with the pastor. If the new church requires a letter or a resolution with your previous church, then explain the situation that you have been unable to resolve it. They might be able to help you resolve it or accept you anyway. I hope this helps you.
I was thinking the same things TheosCentric. That part that stood out the most is the load thing. Isn't the church supposed to be helping bothers and sisters in need?
_____________________________
In Christ,
Richad
The greatest heresy to American Christianity is that if you ask Jesus to come into your heart, he definitely will.
Paul Washer
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RE: Burned by my church of 14 years, need advice - 11/9/2009 9:29:56 AM
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Kat_D
Posts: 1406
Joined: 9/2/2005
From: Where We Shake, Rattle & Roll!
Status: offline
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quote:
I was thinking the same things TheosCentric. That part that stood out the most is the load thing. Isn't the church supposed to be helping bothers and sisters in need?
Yes, the church should be helping brothers and sisters with true needs. However, it is not the church's duty to bail them all out of their financial difficulties. The church is not a bank. In my well over 20 years experience working in Pastoral Care, many people's financial difficulties stem from their own poor financial choices. The OP lost her house...if the church is responsible for bailing out everyone in the church body who loses their house in this day and age, the church will soon become bankrupt and rendered incapable of helping anyone.
_____________________________
~Kat
"...And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes...no more death, sorrow, nor crying."
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RE: Burned by my church of 14 years, need advice - 11/12/2009 12:27:00 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 6723
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cachingweds
I requested at-home communion, which is supposedly offered to all shut-ins in this church.
Specifically to whom and how did your make this request?
Thanks
RC
edited for clarity
< Message edited by rcjames -- 11/12/2009 12:34:10 PM >
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Burned by my church of 14 years, need advice - 11/12/2009 11:40:25 PM
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agapeflight
Posts: 120
Joined: 3/29/2009
Status: offline
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You should flee from any church that preaches tithing as a command for Christians it is heresy.
Also I think the fact that you hit them up for money in the past does complicate the matter though. For their part they should have simply given you the money or some part that they were led and not entered into a surity, and you should have not allowed the obligation to be formed. It is folly for a church to start making loans to its members. Either give or don't and leave it at that.
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