RE: FOOD STAMPS - Do you second guess what's in their cart?
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RE: FOOD STAMPS - Do you second guess what's in their c... - 11/1/2009 3:04:59 AM
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JustaFan
Posts: 538
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quote:
ORIGINAL: moon_mouse
When I was in college, I worked at a "sack it yourself" type grocery store that advertised that it welcomed food stamps. I had a group of 3 families that used to come in and pool their stamps to buy in bulk, and then split the small denomination stamps they got back in change. (This was back when Texas used books of Monopoly money looking stamps.) Then, the same families would come back individually and use the small stamps for special treats,like cookies or cake mix and frosting for the kids. If I had been behind one of these moms in line, I might have looked down on her for using food stamps to buy cookies, not knowing how well she had used most of their stamps. It really taught me that I don't always know the whole story, and I generally need to mind my own beeswax!
You make an excellent point. We don't know from looking at one grocery order how they live. It could be a child's birthday or other special occasion.
Also, if I were a poor mother I would want to get a special treat for my child once in a while. They do without so much that other kids have. We should not begrudge children a pack of cookies as a treat.
I work in a library in a very poor, inner city neighborhood. Those children are really, really thrilled and appreciative when I bake cookies or cupcakes for them. And, they aren't picky eaters like middle class kids.
Also, some people are in that situation because they are not well educated or smart about managing their money. It is too bad when they spend too much money at the beginning of the month and don't have enough to last the whole month, but we shouldn't get angry or judgmental about their lack of money skills.
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Judith
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RE: FOOD STAMPS - Do you second guess what's in their c... - 11/1/2009 4:21:14 AM
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LastofAll
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We as Christians are suppose to learn to be quiet, and to mind our own business, and to work with our own hands. Every one of us shall bear our own burden, we are to not cause another to stumble, or to be offended, or any means to cause another to fall. Each one of us stands or falls before our Maker, but not to other people.
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RE: FOOD STAMPS - Do you second guess what's in their c... - 11/1/2009 11:25:24 AM
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StephK
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From: Southwest Louisiana
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quote:
Also, if I were a poor mother I would want to get a special treat for my child once in a while. They do without so much that other kids have. We should not begrudge children a pack of cookies as a treat.
From what I gather in the OP the issue was that it wasn't the single pack of cookies or chips but when the whole purchase was nothing but empty calorie foods or expensive cuts of meat that many not on FS could afford that was mentioned from another thread.
quote:
Also, some people are in that situation because they are not well educated or smart about managing their money. It is too bad when they spend too much money at the beginning of the month and don't have enough to last the whole month, but we shouldn't get angry or judgmental about their lack of money skills.
If the parents are not able to plan their FS because of poor choices and the kids are still going hungry at the end of the month then someone needs to step in and help the family learn these skills. The food budget is one that can be the easiest to get breathing room financially if people learn the secrets. Like I posted above there could be a better educational aspect for those who need it when a family signs up. It's not so much an anger/judgmental issue as it is kids are going hungry issue when they don't have to be in many cases.
FTR, I don't judge what people buy, being fat I understand what it's like to be judged by what is in the grocery cart.
_____________________________
Stephanie
Envy is always referred to by its political alias, "social justice."
~ Thomas Sowell
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RE: FOOD STAMPS - Do you second guess what's in their c... - 11/1/2009 12:09:39 PM
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momma_bee
Posts: 1261
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When we were on WIC, I had to drive in once to apply. Once to take my kids in to be evaluated (ie, look at birth certificates, weight & height) and a third time to take a class on nutitrion, be tested on the class and trained on using the checks.
They wouldn't evaluate my kids while I was there the first time because I didn't have an appt, and I couldn't schedule the class until AFTER the kids were looked at. I asked if I could just take the test and was told no, I had to be taught about nutrition.
The class consisted of a 45 minute video aimed at an 8th-grade level on eating wisely and the test was 10 questions long on what you were allowed to buy. Training was how to read the check (with a shopping list on it) and endorse the back.
I had to spend 2 hours on the road each time.
< Message edited by momma_bee -- 11/1/2009 6:59:54 PM >
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RE: FOOD STAMPS - Do you second guess what's in their c... - 11/1/2009 12:41:40 PM
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jhuperetes
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I am sorry, but I don't recall most of this. Where does it say I supposed "to be quiet", and "mind my own business"?
quote:
ORIGINAL: LastofAll
We as Christians are suppose to learn to be quiet, and to mind our own business, and to work with our own hands. Every one of us shall bear our own burden, we are to not cause another to stumble, or to be offended, or any means to cause another to fall. Each one of us stands or falls before our Maker, but not to other people.
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RE: FOOD STAMPS - Do you second guess what's in their c... - 11/1/2009 4:14:17 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 7822
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From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: LastofAll
We as Christians are suppose to learn to be quiet, and to mind our own business, and to work with our own hands. Every one of us shall bear our own burden, we are to not cause another to stumble, or to be offended, or any means to cause another to fall. Each one of us stands or falls before our Maker, but not to other people.
And if the person you observe is obviously doing wrong(Breaking the law -sinning) and is claiming to be a Christian?
Whay do you do?
Thanks
RC
edited for spelling
< Message edited by rcjames -- 11/1/2009 4:20:23 PM >
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
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RE: FOOD STAMPS - Do you second guess what's in their c... - 11/1/2009 4:24:53 PM
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Corne
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This is thread about breaking the law/sinning? I thought it was about having opinions about food stamps purchases.
I think the admonishment to mind our own business fits perfectly here.
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RE: FOOD STAMPS - Do you second guess what's in their c... - 11/1/2009 6:31:12 PM
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didymus101
Posts: 1294
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Do you look for what you can put into that cart, what you can add to make life easier for people who are either in need financially or spiritually?
Are we the "need police"? looking only to oversee abuses and judge the "abusers."
The whole notion of this thread seems extremely shallow to me.
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RE: FOOD STAMPS - Do you second guess what's in their c... - 11/1/2009 8:20:27 PM
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jhuperetes
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I think individually we should not judge, but that does not preclude us from discussing the benefits, issues and possible improvements to the program.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Corne
This is thread about breaking the law/sinning? I thought it was about having opinions about food stamps purchases.
I think the admonishment to mind our own business fits perfectly here.
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RE: FOOD STAMPS - Do you second guess what's in their c... - 11/1/2009 8:25:49 PM
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Corne
Posts: 1794
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jhuperetes
I think individually we should not judge, but that does not preclude us from discussing the benefits, issues and possible improvements to the program.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Corne
This is thread about breaking the law/sinning? I thought it was about having opinions about food stamps purchases.
I think the admonishment to mind our own business fits perfectly here.
I am for discussing the merits, demerits of the program, but that is not this discussion. I think often we are prone to blur our opinions of the program with the people themselves. We need to love the needy. Our hearts should be FOR them.
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RE: FOOD STAMPS - Do you second guess what's in their c... - 11/2/2009 2:18:44 PM
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GraceyGirl
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Back in the day - I lost my job at a major hospital. DH was a full time student (3 years out of Marine Corps) and our savings ran out in about two months. We had no family to help us, and being near the holidays, the food pantries were nearly wiped out. I swallowed my pride and went to the welfare office. I received the "opposite" critique than the one we tend to pass on people we see.
I'm an educated woman. I was asked why I couldn't get a job? We had credit cards, and I had to argue and then appeal three times b/c it was not "disposable income." The welfare people couldn't understand why I wouldn't just go charge groceries on my card. "Umm, b/c I can't pay for it once I do?"
When we finally received our aid (about six weeks after applying) we'd been eating grits and eggs, Ramen and Mixed Veggies for that entire time - every day. I kid you not. I was so sick of canned vegatables and ramen noodles. My children had not had milk or dairy in over a month. In our state, they prorate your food stamps (once you're approved) to the day you applied, so for our family of four, we received almost $900 at one time. When the card arrived, we showered, put on our n ice clothes, and went to Kroger and then to WalMart. My little ones bought small pint sized milks and drank them right there in the store once I'd paid for them. It makes me cry, and makes my heart hurt to know that they took such pleasure in something that should be a staple in every house.
We loaded three buggies full, and spent a little over $600. What did not fit in my house, I took to my church.
We dealt with the issue of toilet paper and soap this way - one of us would buy something moderately expensive, like name brand coffee, and the other would return it and get store credit w/o the receipt. Then, we'd buy tp. What else are you going to do?
I think the system is messed up personally. I think that social workers should examine and evaluate expenditures, and those found to be abusing the benefits (by buying candy, sodas, etc more frequently than healthy foods) should have to take some classes and perhaps be assigned a guardian to assist them in wise buying. But then. . .with our gub'ment. . .that's just a pipe dream.
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God called. He'd like His church back.
~John Wimber~
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RE: FOOD STAMPS - Do you second guess what's in their c... - 11/2/2009 2:43:46 PM
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cow451
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Several brief points:
The "social workers" seldom have actual degrees in Social Work.
Having been poor during childhood and been the recipient of welfare services, including public housing, I am cautious about judging the use of Food Stamps, etc. If being poor were such a good deal, everybody would be trying to get there.
The only people profiting from the system are professional criminals who engage in organized fraud, or unscrupulous business owners that trade Food Stamps for smokes, booze and/or drugs.
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I know when there is a trouble, and when there is not a trouble, and you may rest assured that there is a trouble.---- Inspector Jacques Clouseau
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RE: FOOD STAMPS - Do you second guess what's in their c... - 11/2/2009 2:44:57 PM
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saintAngel
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Every one of us shall bear our own burden, we are to not cause another to stumble, or to be offended, or any means to cause another to fall. Each one of us stands or falls before our Maker, but not to other people.
and yup some times people do need to be quiet and mind their own business
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RE: FOOD STAMPS - Do you second guess what's in their c... - 11/2/2009 3:17:19 PM
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didymus101
Posts: 1294
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liveloved, I'm not entitled to my view on the subject? You say the thread was to look at ourselves. I read the posts. There was a lot of badmouthing government and arguments about such programs but few took the thread as being one for self-examination. I was not questioning the motivation behind the thread or saying anything about the person who started it.
With our new president, I hear these petty discussions about politics start in Bible studies, from the pulpit, and afterward in fellowship. I had just come from an early morning discussion group on Romans where, to me, it degenerated into slamming democrats, liberals, welfare-recepients, and so forth, all very righteously cloaked in a call to live by God's standards. I expressed my concern, was met with righteous indignation, and said I had to leave.
Do you really think I am unaware of the "shallows"? Do you think I have not waded or even rode the rapids of the "shallows"? Have I appeared that "shallow" to you?
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RE: FOOD STAMPS - Do you second guess what's in their c... - 11/2/2009 5:31:11 PM
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Liveloved
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quote:
ORIGINAL: agapist
liveloved, I'm not entitled to my view on the subject? You say the thread was to look at ourselves. I read the posts. There was a lot of badmouthing government and arguments about such programs but few took the thread as being one for self-examination. I was not questioning the motivation behind the thread or saying anything about the person who started it.
With our new president, I hear these petty discussions about politics start in Bible studies, from the pulpit, and afterward in fellowship. I had just come from an early morning discussion group on Romans where, to me, it degenerated into slamming democrats, liberals, welfare-recepients, and so forth, all very righteously cloaked in a call to live by God's standards. I expressed my concern, was met with righteous indignation, and said I had to leave.
Do you really think I am unaware of the "shallows"? Do you think I have not waded or even rode the rapids of the "shallows"? Have I appeared that "shallow" to you?
No, my friend, I was teasing you. Certainly you are entitled to an opinion. And I so enjoy the things you share and usually am in hearty and loving agreement. I just took your statement and made a silly out of it and then wanted to point to the good that I had taken from the thread, using it to judge myself.
You are not shallow. You do not appear shallow to me. And the last thing I intended was to hurt you. I take life too seriously at times so look for ways of lightening up. I thought I was being funny. If that was at your expense, I am sorry. I will learn. I will try.  LL
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Liveloved
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Now may the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that you may abound in hope by the power of the Holy Spirit. Romans 15:13
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RE: FOOD STAMPS - Do you second guess what's in their c... - 11/3/2009 1:31:39 AM
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richartrod
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: LastofAll
We as Christians are suppose to learn to be quiet, and to mind our own business, and to work with our own hands. Every one of us shall bear our own burden, we are to not cause another to stumble, or to be offended, or any means to cause another to fall. Each one of us stands or falls before our Maker, but not to other people.
And if the person you observe is obviously doing wrong(Breaking the law -sinning) and is claiming to be a Christian?
Whay do you do?
Thanks
RC
edited for spelling
If the person you observe is obviously doing wrong, you raise your voice and call them out in front of everyone in the checkout area, say they are a bad witness, declare that God imparted to you by revelation the offender and his/her family will be left behind when the Rapture hits because of this sin against God and humanity  ... and make a mad dash for the exit before they throw a can of chocolate fudge at your head!  LOL, ROTF!
Of course you're not supposed to do that... if you value your skull!
RC raises a legitimate question, but I don't believe the answer is confrontation right then and there on the spot. Perhaps bringing the matter up privately, one-on-one, as Jesus taught may be a better example. But if the other persists in sinning by cheating the system, that is to their own peril, spiritually and legally. But we should not have a holier-than-thou, I-told-you-so attitude if they repent and sincerely want to make amends after experiencing the consequences.
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RE: FOOD STAMPS - Do you second guess what's in their c... - 11/3/2009 2:12:02 AM
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Corne
Posts: 1794
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What is the sin we're talking about here?
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RE: FOOD STAMPS - Do you second guess what's in their c... - 11/3/2009 2:37:20 AM
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Covaan_Meshuga
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From: being knit together in my mother's womb
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Harvie
I was reading elsewhere some comments by people about recent grocery shopping experiences that they've had. In several cases, people were outraged or at least annoyed over items in someone else's shopping cart primarily because the other shopper was using "food stamps" or "WIC coupons" or the EBT (electronic benefits card).
What are your thoughts? Do you second-guess what sorts of things that people receiving government assistance are buying? Are you critical or resentful of their choices? Do you ever say anything to them?
When I was a grocery cashier, I would question these things, but I really don't think of questioning anymore. And I would not know that they are using public funds anymore either -- don't they just use cards now, like debit cards?
The last time I questioned what was in anyone's cart, it was an extremely overweight man and extremely overweight woman, who had a cart FULL of candy -- which I would not have noticed either, if it had not been for what was going on. With them was a beautiful little girl who was dancing and twirling -- and singing. What was she singing quite loudly in such delight? "One eight hundred ninety-nine JENNY!"
Sure, there are some who will misuse public funds, but in my opinion, it is not my business to keep track of others: I am my own handful.
_____________________________
While in prayer or praise, I am only as devoted to G-d as I am in my most private moments.
Abiyah, if you had known them as G-d knows them, you would have answered them differently.
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RE: FOOD STAMPS - Do you second guess what's in their c... - 11/3/2009 1:54:37 PM
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BelleWeather
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From: New York City
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Auben
Unless God has given me a lot of personal time and insight in someone's life, I don't feel its my place to judge. I don't know who could know someone's heart or life from this kind of encounter. We hardly know the people we see every day.
My family was on food stamps several times when I was a teen. Its given me some insight into the variety of people in that situation.
Its embarrassing. Its frustrating. And losing your job and needing to depend on them doesn't mean you suddenly know how to cook, budget, or make good decisions with your life.
People respond to it differently. Some get dressed up to go shopping (I won't let them look down on me). Many don't change a thing. There's a certain fear of change when you're living at the bottom. There's a lot of trial and error to any change and that's scary. And yeah, having food stamps doesn't mean your kids act better or you do either.
People are people. That means they come from all backgrounds and exhibit a whole range of good and bad things, even before they need assistance. Food stamps doesn't create that...human sin nature creates that.
If I start judging every person I meet for 5 minutes it contributes to the fear and embarrassment of the good people who end up in that situation. I can give up any private satisfaction in feeling superior in order to make that burden a little less for those people.
Thank you for your witness Auben.
_____________________________
There's a crack in everything.
That's how the light get's in.
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RE: FOOD STAMPS - Do you second guess what's in their c... - 11/3/2009 3:10:36 PM
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Corne
Posts: 1794
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I was responding to the post above mine.
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RE: FOOD STAMPS - Do you second guess what's in their c... - 11/3/2009 5:28:51 PM
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richartrod
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Corne
I was responding to the post above mine.
Corne:
My post was in turn responding to another post, which in turn was responding to another post (confusing, isn't it?). The sin referred to is that of using EBT cards or food stamps to buy food not allowed under those benefits, such as buying candy or other junk food instead of milk, eggs or produce, especially when it's happening in front of our face.
But again, this thread isn't about sin. It's about how we respond to seeing people buying groceries with EBT cards and food stamps. Do we indeed second-guess or judge what they're putting into their grocery cart? Are we resentful of their choices or even being on such programs? Do we confront them on what we know or percieve as bad choices on what they buy?
My previous post was a Conan O'Brien-style response to whether or not we should call out a brother or sister in Christ for their sin of cheating the system or bad food choices. I felt the thread was getting off topic, and my humor (albeit bizarre) was a reflection of that. I apologize if it was taken too seriously or misunderstood.
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