|
Users viewing this topic:
none
|
|
Login  | |
|
RE: Masonic beliefs? - 11/14/2009 2:38:14 AM
|
|
|
lw9
Posts: 854
Joined: 7/22/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
orderofscotland: I could call you bigoted and equivalent of the Christian Taliban but out of my caring for my fellow man and from my respect for others I will not do that.
You just did. Nice.
quote:
Thousands upon thousands of Masonic Christian ministers of several Christian faiths and Priests of the Anglican church. They just shake theirs heads and laugh at so called Christians who proclaim they know all about the Freemasons and especially the Christian faith.
Diversion [red herring]. It does nothing to answer the questions posed to you.
quote:
Why attack Freemasons and not the President of the United States.
Diversion and fallacious argument.
quote:
Christians are falsely led to believe that just because literature comes form so Called Christian sources it has to be true. It is a disgrace the amount of Christian trash that is published and then quoted by those unable to think and reason.
Diversion and false accusation.
quote:
A few years ago the Christian church was very vocal and upset over the FICTION book by Dan Brown titled "The Devinci Code" His new book titled "The Lost Symbol" is about the Freemasons and has sold millions of copies.
Diversion. And this has what to do with Freemasonry vs. scripture?
quote:
To prove a Masonic Lodge is not a religion or church, several hundred Lodges applied for tax free status
in various municipalities. Not one case was ever granted the status of a church or a tax free exemption.
Diversion.
quote:
But it is Ok for so called Christians to post all kinds of Masonic garbage and get away with it.
False accusation. Posting Freemason material directly from Freemason sources and comparing it to scripture is not anti-Masonic garbage. We are presenting the FACTS of Freemasonry and asking for a reconciliation to scripture.
quote:
In the AA program you have 12 steps steps, and many say God and one says A HIGHER POWER, they use no bible and it is not Gospel oriented. Many of these meetings are held in local churches and are even recommended by churches for addiction.
Diversion. It's an utterly pointless and false argument that points to one group in the attempt to make something right.
quote:
We are getting no adult or serious input from those professing to be Christian.
I am beginning to think that the responses as you can read are just from those having fun and no desire to
have serious input into serious questions. Or they do not have the ability for serious discussion.
The responses to Masonic posts show the facts.
False accusation. You have been getting plenty of facts as well as thoughtful and serious responses. Do not confuse disagreement with you as 'no serious input'.
quote:
Everyone knows there are deep divides within the Christian denominations and the Jehovah Witness do class themselves as Christian. Just simply answer why all the different denominations publish hate literature against each other. If you are unable to answer that question just say so and we will move on.
Fallacious arugment and diversion. It's based on a false premise, doesn't reconcile Freemasonry to scripture, and has nothing to do with the questions that have been asked of you.
quote:
I once saw a poster with a very legitimate Bible question get dumped because the question was too tough to answer.
Diversion. Has nothing to do with the topic.
quote:
I hate to discuss this publicly on this board and you know why, but I wanted to bring this to your attention.
Later I hope we can get a chance to discuss this and other matters under Masonic terms within our own board
Diversion. No one is stopping you from discussing here. In fact, no moderator has stopped you from saying anything you want, so your 'I'm being oppressed' attitude is ridiculous. It's simply another diversion to avoid dealing with the Biblical issues asked of you.
_____________________________
Thi4f... seriously, guys?? This does not bode well.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Masonic beliefs? - 11/17/2009 1:03:42 PM
|
|
|
AlabamaAlan
Posts: 47
Joined: 6/1/2006
Status: offline
|
My apologies for leaving for a week without any prior announcement; there was a death in the family.
quote:
ORIGINAL: peacebringer
One significant difference is you have entered a covenant with Freemasonry and chosen to sit under their "authority" and have them as master.
This of course leads again to scripture that you cannot serve 2 masters. Living a life of surrender to Jesus or the "master" of Freemasonry has to be difficult, so which master has precedence?
There is no conflict. Again, we are talking about nothing different than joining any organization. Agreeing to follow the by-laws of any group is not the same as serving a different master.
quote:
Any embracing of multiple paths and interfaith is not about the Gospel. It is about tolerance. Yes, it is about tolerance. However, Masonry does not teach that there is a broad path to Heaven that all faiths may deliver. Masonry does not teach salvation.
Individual Masons are told to follow the tenants of their own faith and look for answers to spiritual matters at their particular houses of worship, not the lodge.
quote:
ORIGINAL: prophet
The oaths are addressed in the presence of the leadershio and made in the name of god. Its not a meal prayer. OATHS As are oaths made by anyone assuming any officers position in various clubs, groups, and organizations - particularly the armed forces or elected political offices.
quote:
Not sure what oaths taken by your soldiers exactly....but do you get paid as masons? A soldier is a career....
Also, does taking a soldiers oath dressed with many religious dressings and behind secured close doors from the public? So it's okay to disobey a Christian law if it is your paid job but not in an unpaid organization, even though both are volunteer groups? A soldier (or politician) swears to uphold the Consitution and orders "so help me God". There is no difference.
As for doors closed from the public, the same is true for most any private organization.
quote:
ORIGINAL: peacebringer
AA: thanks for sharing what you have, can you please share what you consider to be dogma`s and doctrine and how it differs from freemasonry education.
Any Masonic education would be specifc to legends, symbols, etc. and what moral lessons could be taught from them. However, there is nothing dogmatic or doctrinal in Freemasonry as men are allowed to have differing opinions.
I may have different religious interpretations on scripture from other Christians, but those results or differences have spiritual or eternal consequences. That is not the case with Freemasonry as the lessons are not holy or a religion.
quote:
Also recommend this article: http://www.xenos.org/essays/stoich.htm
It seems in these passages Paul is writing against the very things practiced in Freemasonry Since Freemasonry is not a religion, any rituals are not to be in competition with Christianity. According to my understanding of that article, Christians should not participate in any "non-Christian" ritual including those of the OT.
Yet Christ participated in Jewish feasts and Christians still practice circumcision.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Masonic beliefs? - 11/19/2009 10:23:39 PM
|
|
|
lw9
Posts: 854
Joined: 7/22/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
AlabamaAlan: My apologies for leaving for a week without any prior announcement; there was a death in the family.
No apologies necessary, and I'm very sorry to hear this news. I myself don't have much time to spend here, so I dash in and out when I can.
quote:
As are oaths made by anyone assuming any officers position in various clubs, groups, and organizations - particularly the armed forces or elected political offices.
quote:
A soldier (or politician) swears to uphold the Consitution and orders "so help me God". There is no difference.
The topic is Freemasonry, though, and that's what we need to stick with. Pointing to another group for justification doesn't reconcile scripture.
quote:
Since Freemasonry is not a religion, any rituals are not to be in competition with Christianity.
Claiming something is not a religion doesn't make the issues go away.
quote:
Yet Christ participated in Jewish feasts...
Of course He did. Jesus, being God in the flesh and a Jew, faithfully followed God's established Judaic laws and customs for that time. Jesus is also the fulfillment of the law.
God did NOT, however, establish the man-made Freemason rituals - which are pagan in nature. God actually condemns these types of practices many times over. Yes, I have a loved one and in-laws who were involved with Freemasonry and it's associated groups, so I know more than you might think I know.
quote:
.... and Christians still practice circumcision.
It's typically for sanitary reasons, not because they are under the law. Big difference. Christians are completely free to NOT be circumcised if they choose, and I'm not seeing your point on this.
1 Cor 7:19 Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing. Keeping God's commands is what counts.
< Message edited by lw9 -- 11/19/2009 10:53:22 PM >
_____________________________
Thi4f... seriously, guys?? This does not bode well.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Masonic beliefs? - 11/21/2009 12:07:46 PM
|
|
|
peacebringer
Posts: 273
Joined: 5/20/2006
Status: offline
|
I come in and out of thread here. I had actually posted a significant reply earlier in the week only to have the forum go strange on my and lock up and couldn't get back that day.
I want to stick with "Freemasonry" is not a religions issue for a bit.
It seems your definition is based on promoting a 'particular path' or "doctrine" as central.
I would argue that there are specific doctrines unique to masonry. There are specific things that are done. Yes there are variations on the theme. There are also things expected and without variation such as the ritual play mentioned in the 3rd degree (don't have time to look it up right now.)
Now as to the proclamation of "not a religion" generally Buddhism professes not to be a religion. They claim their ceremonies are not religious. I recall the season of survivor that was in Thailand. They had a women who was a Christian talk show host on the cast that season. They had a period of opening ritual that They insisted was "not religious" yet this woman did not see it that way and was essentially mocked for falling to participate (by the editing of the show and the host.) So professing and making a claim does not make it so.
Yes, I recognize that Freemasonry does not "dictate" choice and encourage folks to walk their paths and uses symbols to match those paths.
Also I want to note that Freemasonry here is being presented as simply "pluralistic" and relative, even to the meaning of symbols. When legends and symbols were created, They were not with particular meaning, They mean what They mean to the individuals and individual chapters. I acknowledge that there as been acknowledgement of consistencies but the focus of the presentation is "Things mean different to different people" (that is my take, not intending to set up a straw man.) The other generalization is "It is just a club with folks that like ritual." (again not intending straw-man, it is how the argument seems to me).
_____________________________
http://peacebringer7.wordpress.com/
http://www.peacebringer.net/phpBB3
True peace is not the absence of conflict, it is surrender to the King of Kings.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Masonic beliefs? - 11/21/2009 3:10:04 PM
|
|
|
orderofscotland
Posts: 146
Joined: 11/8/2009
Status: offline
|
I asked these questions and received no answers
Which denomination represents the Christian faith the best?
Why do different Christian denominations publish hate literature against each other.
I will add another
Why are their different Christian denominations?
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Masonic beliefs? - 11/21/2009 3:27:53 PM
|
|
|
orderofscotland
Posts: 146
Joined: 11/8/2009
Status: offline
|
Judges 1:19
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Masonic beliefs? - 11/21/2009 5:15:26 PM
|
|
|
lw9
Posts: 854
Joined: 7/22/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
orderofscotland: I asked these questions and received no answers
Which denomination represents the Christian faith the best?
Why do different Christian denominations publish hate literature against each other.
I will add another
Why are their different Christian denominations?
I'm not seeing the connection at all. Those would be questions for another thread - and you are free to create such a thread. This particular thread, however, is about Freemasonry. You might try reviewing the questions and discussions in THIS thread regarding the OP topic.
< Message edited by lw9 -- 11/21/2009 5:22:49 PM >
_____________________________
Thi4f... seriously, guys?? This does not bode well.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Masonic beliefs? - 11/21/2009 5:47:51 PM
|
|
|
orderofscotland
Posts: 146
Joined: 11/8/2009
Status: offline
|
Iw9
Yes those questions are very pertinent.
Freemasonry is Freemasonry but yet we have virtually hundreds of Christian denominations all professing and preaching to be the word of God.
Any Christian bookstore has literature against other Christian faiths, and you never answered why they do.
And you never answered what faith represents the Christian faith, surely they all don't because of the literature published by the Christians.
You want me as a Christian and a Mason to talk sensibly to someone who thinks they represent the christian church.
If you think you do, tell me what faith you are.
I do know you are unable to speak for all, the Jehovah Witness claim to be Christians, and so do the Southern Baptists.
It would be nice to know who I am talking to, it is just far too simple to say you are a Christian.
Are you ashamed of the church you are speaking for?
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Masonic beliefs? - 11/21/2009 9:41:24 PM
|
|
|
lw9
Posts: 854
Joined: 7/22/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
orderofscotland: Yes those questions are very pertinent.
They are not only pertinent, but they are in keeping with the OP, which you clearly are ignoring.
quote:
Freemasonry is Freemasonry but yet we have virtually hundreds of Christian denominations all professing and preaching to be the word of God.
And? This diversion has nothing to do with the topic. Start a new thread.
quote:
Any Christian bookstore has literature against other Christian faiths, and you never answered why they do. And you never answered what faith represents the Christian faith, surely they all don't because of the literature published by the Christians.
And? Diversion and off-topic. Other Christian literature that is not about Freemasonry has nothing to do with the topic. Start a new thread.
quote:
You want me as a Christian and a Mason to talk sensibly to someone who thinks they represent the christian church.
If you think you do, tell me what faith you are. Are you ashamed of the church you are speaking for?
And that makes what difference in regard to the topic? Well, none.
Let me make this very clear for you: I'm not speaking for any church, period, and I never claimed to, so it's a moot point and a red herring. The Bible speaks plainly enough all on it's own, and that is what I and others are presenting. No matter which church anyone attends, the questions and issues I and others have raised here are totally fair and valid. So this line of attack is completely pointless to this discussion.
Bottom line: Your diversionary tactics of attempting to cast shadows and doubt over churches, christian literature, individual faith, etc. does not speak well of you, and it does not remove the very real issue at hand: Reconcile Freemasonry to the Bible. For your review, here's the topic for this thread:
OP: Has there ever been any discussion on Masonic beliefs and their compatability with Christian beliefs? Should Masons be allowed church membership? What are their beliefs?
If you would like to continue to discuss the above topic, then do so. If you would like to continue to ignore the OP and throw out absurd red herrings, then we're done.
< Message edited by lw9 -- 11/21/2009 9:49:44 PM >
_____________________________
Thi4f... seriously, guys?? This does not bode well.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Masonic beliefs? - 11/21/2009 10:19:44 PM
|
|
|
Bopa
Posts: 4
Joined: 11/21/2009
Status: offline
|
This is the first time I have read a religious forum discussing Masonry and actually sided with the person representing religion. Peacebringer I commend you on engaging Masons and keeping an open mind, yet at the same time sticking to your beliefs.
Just remember that the views given by some Masons are not those of all Masons.
I would also like to point out to everyone, that information provided on the internet is not always fact and cannot be taken as gospel (no pun intended). Youtube is not a news organization or a good source for facts. If you get your news from sound bites, than you are uninformed. I think we rely too much on internet content as factual. I prefer to get information from several sources on and off the internet to reach a conclusion. Which brings me to the topic at hand.
As far as this forum thread is concerned, I can offer my personal experience with religion and masonry as it pertains to my experiences.
In my opinion, everyone is entitled to an opinion. Your faith is your own. You can share your beliefs with those who agree with you, and debate those who do not. I prefer to keep it civil and not attack those with different beliefs, sexual orientations, or political views.
I live my life treating other people with respect. I guess I will find out in the end whether being a mason forfeited my ticket into heaven. I was baptized as Catholic, raised a Catholic, and joined the Masons in 2004. I have not become confused about who god is, and have not been asked to believe or worship anyone else.
I am curious to see how much of my post, LW9 sees as "Diversion"!
< Message edited by Bopa -- 11/21/2009 10:34:51 PM >
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Masonic beliefs? - 11/21/2009 11:05:18 PM
|
|
|
lw9
Posts: 854
Joined: 7/22/2005
Status: offline
|
welcome Bopa
quote:
I would also like to point out to everyone, that information provided on the internet is not always fact and cannot be taken as gospel (no pun intended).
True... but... when I read the beliefs and practices posted by Freemasons themselves, it wouldn't be very kind to call them liars, ya know? I take their words at face value. I don't use secondhand information. Instead I've gone directly to the source for information on this subject, such as in post #2. The Freemason sources I've studied - whether in books or online - have all been in agreement on the major issues we've been discussing here.
quote:
I am curious to see how much of my post, LW9 sees as "Diversion"!
I don't see any diversions in your post. I also don't think I've been unfair in calling it like is regarding orderofscotland's responses. It is what it s.
< Message edited by lw9 -- 11/21/2009 11:15:25 PM >
_____________________________
Thi4f... seriously, guys?? This does not bode well.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Masonic beliefs? - 11/22/2009 12:06:39 AM
|
|
|
Bopa
Posts: 4
Joined: 11/21/2009
Status: offline
|
Ok. I read post number two. What seems to be at issue here is that there can be only one true god. I am a Mason and I agree. It appears the issue other religions have with masons is that we refer to the "Grand Architect of the Universe" as a sort of blanket term that covers all gods and all beliefs. This obviously is to accommodate all religions. Unfortunately this term tends to give the impression there is another god we keep in hiding, and secretly worship when no one is looking. I was never asked to worship or pray to anyone else's god, but I respect other religions and practices.
If at some later date, I find that I was mislead, I will go to confession and ask for forgiveness.
As it stands right now, we help less fortunate people in our community, we have fundraisers, we honor and recognize outstanding people in our community. We do not pass judgement on others. I was raised a catholic, and by becoming a Mason, I am further able to give back to my community just like at church. that is all.
I am trying to stay on topic. Please do not attack me with comparisons or accuse me of diversion. I speak from my own experiences.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Masonic beliefs? - 11/22/2009 12:38:01 AM
|
|
|
Bopa
Posts: 4
Joined: 11/21/2009
Status: offline
|
quote:
when I read the beliefs and practices posted by Freemasons themselves, it wouldn't be very kind to call them liars, ya know? I take their words at face value. I don't use secondhand information.
Like I said, you can't always believe what your read on the internet. Unless you have personally read a Masonic guide book, the information you find on the internet is second or third hand, and is only the interpretation of the person who read the Masonic text.
It is no different than when I sit through a Catholic sermon. Our pastor will read a section of the bible and then give his interpretation to prove his point. There are other pastors who would read the same passage and preach a different meaning all together. Not to mention, that each person listening to the sermon will take away something different when they leave.
To stay on point, my Religious beliefs and my Masonic beliefs do not contradict each other, they complement each other.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Masonic beliefs? - 11/22/2009 6:01:45 AM
|
|
|
orderofscotland
Posts: 146
Joined: 11/8/2009
Status: offline
|
iw9
My questions are in keeping with the thread, which is about the Church and Freemasonry.
Apparently you are of the opinion that all questions and answers should be from a church standpoint
and nothing from a Freemasons standpoint. What kind of a discussion board is that when it is all one sided.
It is not a discussion at all.
Also in all unfairness to this board, you anti Masonic Christians insist on answers that assume Freemasonry is a religion.
Probably 95% of all your answers and questions are redundant to this board because Freemasonry is not a religion.
If you can't answer questions just say so, don't accuse others of diversions when in fact it is your accusation that is the diversion.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Masonic beliefs? - 11/22/2009 6:37:19 AM
|
|
|
orderofscotland
Posts: 146
Joined: 11/8/2009
Status: offline
|
It is very interesting to note that I have never heard or read of anything anti Masonic from the original Christian church.
It is always from those who broke from the real Christian church.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Masonic beliefs? - 11/22/2009 6:45:39 AM
|
|
|
orderofscotland
Posts: 146
Joined: 11/8/2009
Status: offline
|
The Baptist church does not have a God
The Orthodox Church does not have a God
And the Freemasons do not have a God.
It is people who believe in a God, they don't own or posses a God.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Masonic beliefs? - 11/22/2009 9:12:04 AM
|
|
|
peacebringer
Posts: 273
Joined: 5/20/2006
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Bopa
This is the first time I have read a religious forum discussing Masonry and actually sided with the person representing religion. Peacebringer I commend you on engaging Masons and keeping an open mind, yet at the same time sticking to your beliefs.
Just remember that the views given by some Masons are not those of all Masons.
I would also like to point out to everyone, that information provided on the internet is not always fact and cannot be taken as gospel (no pun intended). Youtube is not a news organization or a good source for facts. If you get your news from sound bites, than you are uninformed. I think we rely too much on internet content as factual. I prefer to get information from several sources on and off the internet to reach a conclusion. Which brings me to the topic at hand.
As far as this forum thread is concerned, I can offer my personal experience with religion and masonry as it pertains to my experiences.
In my opinion, everyone is entitled to an opinion. Your faith is your own. You can share your beliefs with those who agree with you, and debate those who do not. I prefer to keep it civil and not attack those with different beliefs, sexual orientations, or political views.
I live my life treating other people with respect. I guess I will find out in the end whether being a mason forfeited my ticket into heaven. I was baptized as Catholic, raised a Catholic, and joined the Masons in 2004. I have not become confused about who god is, and have not been asked to believe or worship anyone else.
I am curious to see how much of my post, LW9 sees as "Diversion"!
Bopa, I always attempt to engage in respect. Yet, I will take a stand for truth for there is truth. The issue here is related to freemasonry at what it is about. Now whether an individual does or does not individually become confused related to YWHW and remembers Him and all His revealed reality, does not validate the fact that Freemasonry teaching run antithetical to the Bible. I have yet to have anyone indicate where in the Bible it is granted to ADD or supplement the Gospel with anything and yet it is done with those in Freemasonry as they bend the symbols and customs in their own mind to fit that which does not fit.
_____________________________
http://peacebringer7.wordpress.com/
http://www.peacebringer.net/phpBB3
True peace is not the absence of conflict, it is surrender to the King of Kings.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Masonic beliefs? - 11/22/2009 9:16:22 AM
|
|
|
peacebringer
Posts: 273
Joined: 5/20/2006
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: orderofscotland
I asked these questions and received no answers
Which denomination represents the Christian faith the best?
Why do different Christian denominations publish hate literature against each other.
I will add another
Why are their different Christian denominations?
Let me quickly answer these distractions (which is apparently a common masonry tactic).
No demonination represents the Christian faith best. We all have parts wrong. Folks generally tend to argue over silly things and engage in disrespect. This is a matter of sin. We have demoninations because we seperate over the ways we reduce YWHW, or some people insist that what they know of God is right, even thought it is simply the perspective they have as a blind man and the elephant in the room. Now, how that pertains to this freemasonry discussion is rather disjointed. Your argument seems to be "Well the church is flawed so back off of freemasonry" as if the flaws in the church give any validation for engaging in mixing the Bible with the teachings of Masonry.
_____________________________
http://peacebringer7.wordpress.com/
http://www.peacebringer.net/phpBB3
True peace is not the absence of conflict, it is surrender to the King of Kings.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Masonic beliefs? - 11/22/2009 9:33:17 AM
|
|
|
orderofscotland
Posts: 146
Joined: 11/8/2009
Status: offline
|
Peacebringer
Is Freemasonry a Religion...yes or no
Does Freemasonry have a God...yes or no
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Masonic beliefs? - 11/22/2009 9:58:52 AM
|
|
|
orderofscotland
Posts: 146
Joined: 11/8/2009
Status: offline
|
Peacebringer
Well I see you are unable to answer simple yes and no questions.
I also see were you are getting your information from.
So it is only logical with your way of thinking that Thomas Pain, Voltaire,
Ingersoll and Huxley are correct on the Christian religion.
Is it Ok for me to post websites that are anti christian on here or is this site reserved just for
you anti Masonic Christians to post against us Freemason Christians.
A simple yes or no will suffice also for that question.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Masonic beliefs? - 11/22/2009 10:08:50 AM
|
|
|
orderofscotland
Posts: 146
Joined: 11/8/2009
Status: offline
|
Also I will add that Freemasonry Watch is a Roman Catholic promotion site.
That site also claims that the Roman Catholic church is the one true Christian church.
That contradicts everything you guys have been saying about the denominations being the same.
The Orthodox church is the original Church not the Roman Catholics..
So there you have it...one of the worlds great Christian churches telling lies
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Masonic beliefs? - 11/22/2009 10:28:19 AM
|
|
|
orderofscotland
Posts: 146
Joined: 11/8/2009
Status: offline
|
The website were Peacbringer gets his Anti Masonic knowledge
is also against Protestantism
Now isn't that something
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Masonic beliefs? - 11/22/2009 11:22:49 AM
|
|
|
lw9
Posts: 854
Joined: 7/22/2005
Status: offline
|
hello bopa.
quote:
I live my life treating other people with respect. I guess I will find out in the end whether being a mason forfeited my ticket into heaven. I was baptized as Catholic, raised a Catholic, and joined the Masons in 2004. I have not become confused about who god is, and have not been asked to believe or worship anyone else.
I'm not Roman Catholic myself, but I just wanted to point out that if you are a Roman Catholic , then you are completely at odds with your church. An excerpt from the official Vatican website:
LINK: Irreconcilability between Christian faith and Freemasonry "Since the Church began to declare her mind concerning Freemasonry, her negative judgment has been inspired by many reasons, both practical and doctrinal. She judged Freemasonry not merely responsible for subversive activity in her regard, but from the earliest pontifical documents on the subject and in particular in the Encyclical Humanum Genus by Leo XIII (20 April 1884), the Magisterium of the Church has denounced in Freemasonry philosophical ideas and moral conceptions opposed to Catholic doctrine. For Leo XIII, they essentially led back to a rationalistic naturalism, the inspiration of its plans and activities against the Church. In his Letter to the Italian people Custodi (8 December 1892), he wrote: «Let us remember that Christianity and Freemasonry are essentially irreconcilable, so that enrolment in one means separation from the other».
In any case, for a Catholic Christian, it is not possible to live his relation with God in a twofold mode, that is, dividing it into a supraconfessional humanitarian form and an interior Christian form. He cannot cultivate relations of two types with God, nor express his relation with the Creator through symbolic forms of two types. That would be something completely different from that collaboration, which to him is obvious, with all those who are committed to doing good, even if beginning from different principles. On the one hand, a Catholic Christian cannot at the same time share in the full communion of Christian brotherhood and, on the other, look upon his Christian brother, from the Masonic perspective, as an «outsider».
Precisely by considering all these elements, the Declaration of the Sacred Congregation affirms that membership in Masonic associations «remains forbidden by the Church», and the faithful who enrolls in them «are in a state of grave sin and may not receive Holy Communion».
With this last statement, the Sacred Congregation points out to the faithful that this membership objectively constitutes a grave sin and by specifying that the members of a Masonic association may not receive Holy Communion, it intends to enlighten the conscience of the faithful about a grave consequence which must derive from their belonging to a Masonic lodge.
Only Jesus Christ is, in fact, the Teacher of Truth, and only in him can Christians find the light and the strength to live according to God’s plan, working for the true good of their brethren.
Just food for thought.
< Message edited by lw9 -- 11/22/2009 11:32:20 AM >
_____________________________
Thi4f... seriously, guys?? This does not bode well.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Masonic beliefs? - 11/22/2009 1:27:24 PM
|
|
|
orderofscotland
Posts: 146
Joined: 11/8/2009
Status: offline
|
Iw9
We have several Roman Catholics in my Lodge, a few even asked the local priest about joining and he gave them his blessing to do so.
The Catholic church is in a bind with old Papal Bulls put out by several Popes. They cannot rescind them because a Pope is suppose to be infallible
which means he makes no mistakes.
What you posted is the Roman Church version of some old anti Masonic literature put out by the Church.
What really upset the Church was that the Freemasons destroyed their power in Europe and especially Italy.
It was the Freemasons under Garibaldi who unified Italy and destroyed the power of the church. It was Mussolini who gave them a few acres for thye Vatican
nd some pwer again. They have observation rights at the United Nations. People got tired of being burnt at the stake and their lives being controlled by the church
that was why the overthrow.
That carried on with the overthrow of Great Briatain and the establishment of the United States by the Freemasons.
The Constitution of the United States is a Masonic document and limits the power of the church.
That was all done from sad experiences when religion gets total control, ir does not work.
Anyway that is a very brief history and we can go on from here.
The Roman Catholic church is now making overtures to get along better with other Christian denominations, the Pope met today with the leader of the
Anglican church
|
|
|
|
 New Messages |
 No New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/ New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/o New Messages |
 Locked w/ New Messages |
 Locked w/o New Messages |
|
 Post New Thread
Reply to Message
Post New Poll
Submit Vote
Delete My Own Post
Delete My Own Thread
Rate Posts |
|
|
Forum Tools
Printable Version
