RE: Did Jesus remain God in the flesh? (Full Version)

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awaken -> RE: Did Jesus remain God in the flesh? (2/11/2009 12:19:47 PM)

O.k. When Jesus was born, what was it in Mary...was it seed, nature, Spirit (which is God)?
What happens when we are born of God? What does God put in us to become his children?



MrFribbles -> RE: Did Jesus remain God in the flesh? (2/11/2009 1:02:46 PM)

quote:

When Jesus was born, what was it in Mary...was it seed, nature, Spirit (which is God)?


I'm a bit confused, so before I answer, I must ask two questions. Are you referring to what was in Mary's womb, before Jesus was born? And, what do you mean by "nature"?

quote:

What happens when we are born of God?


Our sins are forgiven, and we are indwelt by the Holy Spirit.



awaken -> RE: Did Jesus remain God in the flesh? (2/11/2009 1:16:11 PM)

The seed of the woman in Genesis is this referring to Jesus?
What was it of God that was in the womb of Mary? was it his seed, nature of God, Spirit of God?

Matt. mentions that Mary found with the child of the Holy Spirit. So Jesus would be a child of God, correct?



MrFribbles -> RE: Did Jesus remain God in the flesh? (2/11/2009 1:37:37 PM)

Please tell me what you mean by "nature."



awaken -> RE: Did Jesus remain God in the flesh? (2/11/2009 1:44:37 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrFribbles

Please tell me what you mean by "nature."


This is what I have heard when a person gets saved they inherit the nature of God. I quess it is another way of saying the Spirit...because God's nature is spirit, right?



laura... -> RE: Did Jesus remain God in the flesh? (2/11/2009 1:51:46 PM)

quote:

The seed of the woman in Genesis is this referring to Jesus?
Yes.

quote:

What was it of God that was in the womb of Mary? was it his seed, nature of God, Spirit of God?
"It" was Emmanuel, God with us. God.



awaken -> RE: Did Jesus remain God in the flesh? (2/11/2009 1:56:26 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: laura...

quote:

The seed of the woman in Genesis is this referring to Jesus?
Yes.

quote:

What was it of God that was in the womb of Mary? was it his seed, nature of God, Spirit of God?
"It" was Emmanuel, God with us. God.


If God was in flesh...Jesus, why did he have to learn and grow in the wisdom, stature and favor with God?



MrFribbles -> RE: Did Jesus remain God in the flesh? (2/11/2009 2:02:58 PM)

quote:

This is what I have heard when a person gets saved they inherit the nature of God.


Well, I would disagree with those who say that. We receive a new nature, but it's not God's nature. It's from God, but not the exact same as God's.

quote:

I quess it is another way of saying the Spirit...because God's nature is spirit, right?


The Holy Spirit is another person of the Godhead, it's not just part of the Father's nature.

So, to answer your question, what was inside Mary was entirely human, conceived in a human woman, but also entirely God, conceived by God the Holy Spirit. The eternal nature of God the Son became a being with a human body, and remains a being with a human body.



awaken -> RE: Did Jesus remain God in the flesh? (2/11/2009 2:08:54 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrFribbles

quote:

This is what I have heard when a person gets saved they inherit the nature of God.


Well, I would disagree with those who say that. We receive a new nature, but it's not God's nature. It's from God, but not the exact same as God's.

quote:

I quess it is another way of saying the Spirit...because God's nature is spirit, right?


The Holy Spirit is another person of the Godhead, it's not just part of the Father's nature.

So, to answer your question, what was inside Mary was entirely human, conceived in a human woman, but also entirely God, conceived by God the Holy Spirit. The eternal nature of God the Son became a being with a human body, and remains a being with a human body.


What is this new nature if not the nature of God? Is the Holy Spirit the nature of God or not? I thought when we accept Jesus as our Saviour the Holy Spirit indwells us? I am getting confused on what you are saying.



rawr.ben -> RE: Did Jesus remain God in the flesh? (2/11/2009 2:11:37 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: awaken

Is the Holy Spirit the nature of God or not?


The Holy Spirit is God, of the same essence as the Father and Son.



MrFribbles -> RE: Did Jesus remain God in the flesh? (2/11/2009 2:15:34 PM)

quote:

What is this new nature if not the nature of God?


It's a new human nature, free from a bondage to sin. It is "of God," in that it originates from God, and seeks to glorify Him, but it is not "of God," in that it isn't the exact same nature God has.

quote:

Is the Holy Spirit the nature of God or not?


No, the Holy Spirit is God.

quote:

I thought when we accept Jesus as our Saviour the Holy Spirit indwells us?


He does, but that doesn't mean we instantly become God, or even begin acting exactly like God. Rather, He begins working with our new nature to make us more like the people God would like us to be.



awaken -> RE: Did Jesus remain God in the flesh? (2/11/2009 2:25:16 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: 1love1God1way

quote:

ORIGINAL: awaken

Is the Holy Spirit the nature of God or not?


The Holy Spirit is God, of the same essence as the Father and Son.


essence???what do you mean as essence?



Ezra -> RE: Did Jesus remain God in the flesh? (2/11/2009 2:31:22 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: awaken
The seed of the woman in Genesis is this referring to Jesus?
What was it of God that was in the womb of Mary? was it his seed, nature of God, Spirit of God?


Awaken:

The seed of the woman was indeed the Lord Jesus Christ. He was eternally God (John 1:1-3) and God was His Father eternally, but when He was conceived in the womb of the virgin Mary, that was a supernatural conception by the Holy Spirit. To go beyond this and attempt to analyze the details would be presumptuous and foolish.

However, it was not at the point of conception at which God became the Father of the "only begotten Son", but that was the point at which God the Son took human form as the babe Jesus. The relation of the Father and the Son is eternal.

According to Scripture the Lord Jesus Christ was fully God and fully sinless man since His conception. As a man He grew in wisdom and stature. As a man He also prayed to His Father. As God He has the fullness of the Godhead within Himself. That is why God the Father addresses Him as God in Hebrews 1:8. The Holy Spirit is also God.

This is undoubtedly a "mystery" but it is true nonetheless. God -- the Lord God Almighty -- was "manifest" or revealed "in the flesh" (in a human body) as Jesus of Nazareth.

I trust this answers your questions.



laura... -> RE: Did Jesus remain God in the flesh? (2/11/2009 2:32:03 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: awaken

quote:

ORIGINAL: laura...

quote:

The seed of the woman in Genesis is this referring to Jesus?
Yes.

quote:

What was it of God that was in the womb of Mary? was it his seed, nature of God, Spirit of God?
"It" was Emmanuel, God with us. God.


If God was in flesh...Jesus, why did he have to learn and grow in the wisdom, stature and favor with God?

Philippians 2
5Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus,
6who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. 8Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. 9 For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, 10so that at the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE WILL BOW, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

He is our example. Jesus humbled himself to become human and he showed us how to "grow in wisdom, stature and favor of God."

Jesus is God:

Romans 9:5 (New International Version)
5Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of Christ, who is God over all, forever praised! Amen.



awaken -> RE: Did Jesus remain God in the flesh? (2/11/2009 2:55:06 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrFribbles

quote:

What is this new nature if not the nature of God?


It's a new human nature, free from a bondage to sin. It is "of God," in that it originates from God, and seeks to glorify Him, but it is not "of God," in that it isn't the exact same nature God has.

quote:

Is the Holy Spirit the nature of God or not?


No, the Holy Spirit is God.

quote:

I thought when we accept Jesus as our Saviour the Holy Spirit indwells us?


He does, but that doesn't mean we instantly become God, or even begin acting exactly like God. Rather, He begins working with our new nature to make us more like the people God would like us to be.


I can see in scripture where the Holy Spirit is God..I do not question that.

But when I read about Jesus it says...son of God, in the image of God etc. I am a daughter of my father but I am not my father. Even if I looked (image) just like my mother...I am still not my mother.

Even Peter, when Jesus asked him who he thought He was...he said "Christ, the son of God" He did not say He was God.

He spoke of his father as being seperate than him. Yes, they were one in agreement, but I can not see them the same person.

I was taught the trinity as I said earlier...but I do not understand it in light of the scriptures.

I do believe that Jesus remained in the flesh after he resurrected because it says he had flesh and bones. It was a resurrected body, different, yet fleshly.



MrFribbles -> RE: Did Jesus remain God in the flesh? (2/11/2009 3:02:22 PM)

quote:

But when I read about Jesus it says...son of God, in the image of God etc. I am a daughter of my father but I am not my father. Even if I looked (image) just like my mother...I am still not my mother.


You're thinking of this in human terms. Jesus is not the Son of God in the same way we're the children of our parents. It shows His position, not His genealogy. Jesus is submissive to the Father. That doesn't mean He is less powerful than the Father, anymore than a wife who chooses to submit to their husband is less valuable than the husband.

quote:

Even Peter, when Jesus asked him who he thought He was...he said "Christ, the son of God" He did not say He was God.


But Thomas did. And Jesus did not rebuke Him for it. If Jesus wasn't God, why didn't He tell Thomas, "No, don't call me God!"

quote:


He spoke of his father as being seperate than him. Yes, they were one in agreement, but I can not see them the same person.


That's because they're not the same person. They're both entirely and equally God, but different persons of the Godhead.



laura... -> RE: Did Jesus remain God in the flesh? (2/11/2009 3:09:27 PM)

quote:

He spoke of his father as being seperate than him. Yes, they were one in agreement, but I can not see them the same person.


Jesus also said that they were one and that anyone who sees him sees the Father:

John 14:9Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'?



rawr.ben -> RE: Did Jesus remain God in the flesh? (2/11/2009 3:12:37 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: awaken

quote:

ORIGINAL: 1love1God1way

quote:

ORIGINAL: awaken

Is the Holy Spirit the nature of God or not?


The Holy Spirit is God, of the same essence as the Father and Son.


essence???what do you mean as essence?


The Godhead is three persons, but are made up of the same "stuff."



laura... -> RE: Did Jesus remain God in the flesh? (2/11/2009 3:16:06 PM)

Let us not forget the testimony of John 1:

John 1
1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was with God in the beginning.
3Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4In him was life, and that life was the light of men. 5The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it.

6There came a man who was sent from God; his name was John. 7He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all men might believe. 8He himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light. 9The true light that gives light to every man was coming into the world.

10He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. 11He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. 12Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— 13children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God.

14The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

15John testifies concerning him. He cries out, saying, "This was he of whom I said, 'He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.' " 16From the fullness of his grace we have all received one blessing after another. 17For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. 18 No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father's side, has made him known.

It always amazes me how those who say the bible never says Jesus is God miss all the passages that say Jesus is God.



awaken -> RE: Did Jesus remain God in the flesh? (2/11/2009 5:04:08 PM)

But Thomas did. And Jesus did not rebuke Him for it. If Jesus wasn't God, why didn't He tell Thomas, "No, don't call me God!"

I believe Thomas was speaking of his authority that he saw that Jesus had...

In the Greek language and in the culture of the day, “GOD” (all early manuscripts of the Bible were written in all capital letters) was a descriptive title applied to a range of authorities, including the Roman governor (Acts 12:22), and even the Devil (2 Cor. 4:4). It was used of someone with divine authority. It was not limited to its absolute sense as a personal name for the supreme Deity as we use it today.



awaken -> RE: Did Jesus remain God in the flesh? (2/11/2009 5:30:09 PM)

laura, I have not ignored those scriptures, I just do not see them saying the same as you do.

John 1
1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was with God in the beginning.
" Jesus Christ” is not a lexical definition of logos. This verse does not say, “In the beginning was Jesus.” “The Word” is not synonymous with Jesus, or even “the Messiah.” The word logos in John 1:1 refers to God’s creative self-expression—His reason, purposes and plans, especially as they are brought into action. It refers to God’s self-expression, or communication, of Himself. This has come to pass through His creation (Rom. 1:19 and 20), and especially the heavens (Ps. 19). It has come through the spoken word of the prophets and through Scripture, the written Word. Most notably and finally, it has come into being through His Son (Heb. 1:1 and 2).

10He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. This verse is a reference to the Father, not to Christ.

14The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth. The “Word” is the wisdom, plan or purpose of God and the Word “became flesh” as Jesus Christ. Notice that it said he came from the Father ...but does not say he is the Father.

18 No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father's side, has made him known.The KJV reads..No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him. (KJV)...again it says the only begotten Son.

I see Jesus as the Son of God not God in the flesh!



awaken -> RE: Did Jesus remain God in the flesh? (2/11/2009 5:31:38 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: 1love1God1way

quote:

ORIGINAL: awaken

quote:

ORIGINAL: 1love1God1way

quote:

ORIGINAL: awaken

Is the Holy Spirit the nature of God or not?


The Holy Spirit is God, of the same essence as the Father and Son.


essence???what do you mean as essence?


The Godhead is three persons, but are made up of the same "stuff."


It says God is Spirit...that makes one. And then there is the son of God..that makes two.



MrFribbles -> RE: Did Jesus remain God in the flesh? (2/11/2009 11:23:08 PM)

quote:

(all early manuscripts of the Bible were written in all capital letters)


And without spaces or punctuation to boot.

quote:

In the Greek language and in the culture of the day, “GOD”..was a descriptive title applied to a range of authorities, including the Roman governor (Acts 12:22), and even the Devil (2 Cor. 4:4).


You're misunderstanding those texts. In the Acts example, they're shamelessly flattering Herod by saying he was speaking like a god. They were comparing him with the divine because they were kissing up to him.
In 2 Cor., Paul is addressing the concept that Satan has entire control over the unbeliever - not in the sense of possessing them, but in the sense that ultimately they serve and worship him, to some degree or another.
If theos were just another nice way of saying "dude in charge," why wouldn't Jesus be called theos in that way until after His resurrection, when His divinity was most clearly demonstrated on earth?

quote:

It was not limited to its absolute sense as a personal name for the supreme Deity as we use it today.


Nor was it back then. It referred to other gods (little g) quite often.

quote:

It says God is Spirit...that makes one.


No, it says God is spirit. Lower case s. The Father is spirit, and so is the Holy Spirit, obviously. Both are God. That makes two persons. And then there's the Son, who is also God. He was spirit until the incarnation, and ever since then He has had a physical (albeit glorified, after His resurrection) body. That makes three persons. Three persons, one essence - God.



awaken -> RE: Did Jesus remain God in the flesh? (2/12/2009 10:43:04 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrFribbles

quote:

(all early manuscripts of the Bible were written in all capital letters)


And without spaces or punctuation to boot.

quote:

In the Greek language and in the culture of the day, “GOD”..was a descriptive title applied to a range of authorities, including the Roman governor (Acts 12:22), and even the Devil (2 Cor. 4:4).


You're misunderstanding those texts. In the Acts example, they're shamelessly flattering Herod by saying he was speaking like a god. They were comparing him with the divine because they were kissing up to him.
In 2 Cor., Paul is addressing the concept that Satan has entire control over the unbeliever - not in the sense of possessing them, but in the sense that ultimately they serve and worship him, to some degree or another.
If theos were just another nice way of saying "dude in charge," why wouldn't Jesus be called theos in that way until after His resurrection, when His divinity was most clearly demonstrated on earth?

quote:

It was not limited to its absolute sense as a personal name for the supreme Deity as we use it today.


Nor was it back then. It referred to other gods (little g) quite often.

quote:

It says God is Spirit...that makes one.


No, it says God is spirit. Lower case s. The Father is spirit, and so is the Holy Spirit, obviously. Both are God. That makes two persons. And then there's the Son, who is also God. He was spirit until the incarnation, and ever since then He has had a physical (albeit glorified, after His resurrection) body. That makes three persons. Three persons, one essence - God.


Jesus being the son of God has authority.

John 4:24.." God is a Spirit; and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth"

God is a Spirit is in cap's...our spirit is in lower case.



MrFribbles -> RE: Did Jesus remain God in the flesh? (2/12/2009 11:18:50 AM)

quote:

Jesus being the son of God has authority.


Yes, but Thomas isn't just ascribing authority to Jesus. He doesn't just call Him theos. If Thomas just called him theos, then you might have something. But he calls Jesus kurios (lord), which does often just apply to human authority, and theos, God. If you can find one other instance where a mere human is called kurios and theos, please share it.

quote:

God is a Spirit is in cap's...our spirit is in lower case.


You yourself mentioned that the original Greek texts is all in caps, and now you're basing your argument on an English capitalization of a word? I'm not sure how that fits.
Incidentally, "spirit" here lacks the definite article, so it isn't referring to the Holy Spirit. It's not describing who the Father is, but rather His nature.



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