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RE: Signs/Wonders - 12/3/2008 8:12:16 AM
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earthless
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quote:
ORIGINAL: sledmt
quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
quote:
ORIGINAL: sledmt
So, for the demonized man that call on the Lord he is saved.
This utterly contradicts your statement from the last page or two. Change of mind?
I don't know what you think I said, but I do know that just because he called on the Lord, does not mean the demon left him. The demon need to be casted out by a believer.
No where in the word do we have an example of a demon leaving without being cast out or drove out.
The question to you was can/will a demon be convicted by the Holy Spirit unto repentance/salvation? You answered that with a 'no'.
Are you now backtracking?
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RE: Signs/Wonders - 12/3/2008 8:13:28 AM
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earthless
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sled,
Let us get to brass tacks - We have all been waiting for several pages and several days - I personally look forward to you showing us all one single example from Scripture of a born-again believer being inhabited/possessed by demon(s).
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RE: Signs/Wonders - 12/3/2008 3:05:29 PM
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themoodyexperience
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quote:
ORIGINAL: sledmt
quote:
ORIGINAL: themoodyexperience
2 Corinthians 6:14
Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness?
I know the first part of the verse talks about being unequally yoked, but the truth in the second part is more than applicable to this discussion. The Bible makes it clear than light can have no fellowship with darkness. How do you then argue that a born again Christian can be demon possessed?
Interesting verse you use to support your belief. Taking in the context of the section, I believe that it is refering to false teacher that are lead of Satan. But, for the moment, let assume we can apply the verses in the section to this discussion.
Several verses down, it makes a OT reference. It says "they" separate you selfs. One could take this to mean that they were involved with something not Godly. Clean your selfs your not ungodliness.
For today: Christians can be yolked with "demon".
They "Christians" need to get rid of those demons.
Does this make sense.
I would argue that in some very few cases, context does not matter. When he word 'for' is used, it is illuminating a multipurpose truth. In this case, we are told not to be yoked with unbelievers because of the truth of light having no fellowship with darkness. He's almost saying "don't have any fellowship with unbelievers, because everyone knows light has no fellowship with darkness."
Further down in the chapter it says:
"What agreement is there between the temple of God and idols? For we are the temple of the living God. As God has said: "I will live with them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they will be my people."
Now can you honestly tell me that demons can inhabit the temple of the Living God?
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RE: Signs/Wonders - 12/3/2008 4:40:24 PM
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sledmt
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Where in the word does it say that a demon leave at the moment of salvation, without being cast out by a believer.
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RE: Signs/Wonders - 12/3/2008 4:42:39 PM
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sledmt
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Please explain why you think that a demon would ask for repentance?
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RE: Signs/Wonders - 12/3/2008 4:43:43 PM
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sledmt
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While we are at it, do explain why you think believers today can't be possessed like they were in the NT.
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RE: Signs/Wonders - 12/3/2008 4:44:46 PM
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earthless
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He asked you a question: Now can you honestly tell me that demons can inhabit the temple of the Living God?
Same one I lead you to a few pages back - and you, then, said a demon cannot be forgiven nor would he want to be forgiven.
Now it seems that in your quest to say a born-again believer can be inhabited/possessed by the demonic you are willing to forgo the biblical route your premise leads us to - which is that the Holy Spirit cannot be strong-armed by the demonic. God is God.
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RE: Signs/Wonders - 12/3/2008 4:46:32 PM
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earthless
Posts: 6342
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quote:
ORIGINAL: sledmt
While we are at it, do explain why you think believers today can't be possessed like they were in the NT.
From Scripture, please show a single example of a born-again believer that is inhabited/possessed by demon(s).
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RE: Signs/Wonders - 12/3/2008 4:46:51 PM
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raivyne
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quote:
ORIGINAL: sledmt
Where in the word does it say that a demon leave at the moment of salvation, without being cast out by a believer.
Do you believe attaining salvation means one is cleansed and made new? Do you believe a demon can be saved?
_____________________________
P.U.S.H. – Pray Until Something Happens
What if God is asking us for a sign?
Knowledge is proud; wisdom is humble.
Patiently waiting for my KSA
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RE: Signs/Wonders - 12/3/2008 4:47:41 PM
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sledmt
Posts: 321
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quote:
ORIGINAL: themoodyexperience
quote:
ORIGINAL: sledmt
quote:
ORIGINAL: themoodyexperience
2 Corinthians 6:14
Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness?
I know the first part of the verse talks about being unequally yoked, but the truth in the second part is more than applicable to this discussion. The Bible makes it clear than light can have no fellowship with darkness. How do you then argue that a born again Christian can be demon possessed?
Interesting verse you use to support your belief. Taking in the context of the section, I believe that it is refering to false teacher that are lead of Satan. But, for the moment, let assume we can apply the verses in the section to this discussion.
Several verses down, it makes a OT reference. It says "they" separate you selfs. One could take this to mean that they were involved with something not Godly. Clean your selfs your not ungodliness.
For today: Christians can be yolked with "demon".
They "Christians" need to get rid of those demons.
Does this make sense.
I would argue that in some very few cases, context does not matter. When he word 'for' is used, it is illuminating a multipurpose truth. In this case, we are told not to be yoked with unbelievers because of the truth of light having no fellowship with darkness. He's almost saying "don't have any fellowship with unbelievers, because everyone knows light has no fellowship with darkness."
Further down in the chapter it says:
"What agreement is there between the temple of God and idols? For we are the temple of the living God. As God has said: "I will live with them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they will be my people."
Now can you honestly tell me that demons can inhabit the temple of the Living God?
Look at the whole passage including the OT reference. Tell me what you think the OT reference means in the context of the whole passage.
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RE: Signs/Wonders - 12/3/2008 4:48:39 PM
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earthless
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quote:
ORIGINAL: raivyne
quote:
ORIGINAL: sledmt
Where in the word does it say that a demon leave at the moment of salvation, without being cast out by a believer.
Do you believe attaining salvation means one is cleansed and made new? Do you believe a demon can be saved?
This is a great question! I wonder what sled believes happens when a person is born-again. Just what does he believe the Holy Spirit does and what salvation actually entails.
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RE: Signs/Wonders - 12/3/2008 4:52:09 PM
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sledmt
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quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
quote:
ORIGINAL: sledmt
While we are at it, do explain why you think believers today can't be possessed like they were in the NT.
From Scripture, please show a single example of a born-again believer that is inhabited/possessed by demon(s).
You show me from scripture an example of a demon leaving without being cast out.
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RE: Signs/Wonders - 12/3/2008 4:55:30 PM
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sledmt
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quote:
ORIGINAL: raivyne
quote:
ORIGINAL: sledmt
Where in the word does it say that a demon leave at the moment of salvation, without being cast out by a believer.
Do you believe attaining salvation means one is cleansed and made new? Do you believe a demon can be saved?
So, with your line of thinking, when we are made new, everyone that is blind with unsaved should be healed when they become a believer. How often does this happen?
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RE: Signs/Wonders - 12/3/2008 4:56:41 PM
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earthless
Posts: 6342
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where pigeons are wearing sweaters....
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quote:
ORIGINAL: sledmt
quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
quote:
ORIGINAL: sledmt
While we are at it, do explain why you think believers today can't be possessed like they were in the NT.
From Scripture, please show a single example of a born-again believer that is inhabited/possessed by demon(s).
You show me from scripture an example of a demon leaving without being cast out.
That is a straw-man argument.
I asked you several pages back a series of questions which lead you to the answer of your own question. Have you changed your mind on what you believe now compared to a week or two ago?
We keep asking you questions and you keep not answering them. Why is that?
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RE: Signs/Wonders - 12/3/2008 4:59:43 PM
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earthless
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quote:
ORIGINAL: sledmt
So, with your line of thinking, when we are made new, everyone that is blind with unsaved should be healed when they become a believer. How often does this happen?
That would be a good argument if not for the fact that physical healing and financial/material wealth is not promised to every born-again believer.
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RE: Signs/Wonders - 12/3/2008 5:01:10 PM
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sledmt
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quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
quote:
ORIGINAL: sledmt
quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
quote:
ORIGINAL: sledmt
While we are at it, do explain why you think believers today can't be possessed like they were in the NT.
From Scripture, please show a single example of a born-again believer that is inhabited/possessed by demon(s).
You show me from scripture an example of a demon leaving without being cast out.
That is a straw-man argument.
I asked you several pages back a series of questions which lead you to the answer of your own question. Have you changed your mind on what you believe now compared to a week or two ago?
We keep asking you questions and you keep not answering them. Why is that?
You are doing the same thing. I keep asking the same question, and you keep asking me the same question. When you answer my question, it really answer you question.
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RE: Signs/Wonders - 12/3/2008 5:03:08 PM
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sledmt
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quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
quote:
ORIGINAL: sledmt
So, with your line of thinking, when we are made new, everyone that is blind with unsaved should be healed when they become a believer. How often does this happen?
That would be a good argument if not for the fact that physical healing and financial/material wealth is not promised to every born-again believer.
Please show me from the Word it promises to deliver every believer from a demon.
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RE: Signs/Wonders - 12/3/2008 5:07:04 PM
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sledmt
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quote:
ORIGINAL: raivyne
quote:
ORIGINAL: sledmt
Where in the word does it say that a demon leave at the moment of salvation, without being cast out by a believer.
Do you believe attaining salvation means one is cleansed and made new? Do you believe a demon can be saved?
I all know it what the word says, he instructed us to cast demons out of people. When this is not done, they have to still be there in the person in some form.
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RE: Signs/Wonders - 12/3/2008 5:11:55 PM
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earthless
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quote:
ORIGINAL: sledmt
quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
quote:
ORIGINAL: sledmt
Ok, since there has been many questions floating around, whats was your question.
In regards to a demon inhabited/controlled individual.. can those demons accept the Lord as their Savior? Can they repent of their sin?
Why would a demon want salvation. Why would they try to repent? Even if he could, he can't. The Lord has not provided salvation for demons, but for man.
This was your response a few weeks ago. Remember?
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RE: Signs/Wonders - 12/3/2008 5:12:59 PM
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earthless
Posts: 6342
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quote:
ORIGINAL: sledmt
quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
quote:
ORIGINAL: sledmt
quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
quote:
ORIGINAL: sledmt
While we are at it, do explain why you think believers today can't be possessed like they were in the NT.
From Scripture, please show a single example of a born-again believer that is inhabited/possessed by demon(s).
You show me from scripture an example of a demon leaving without being cast out.
That is a straw-man argument.
I asked you several pages back a series of questions which lead you to the answer of your own question. Have you changed your mind on what you believe now compared to a week or two ago?
We keep asking you questions and you keep not answering them. Why is that?
You are doing the same thing. I keep asking the same question, and you keep asking me the same question. When you answer my question, it really answer you question.
Friend,
I have more than answered all of your questions. The problem is that you're now asking a straw-man argument question. And it does not hold water, something you would see if you would answer the questions being asked of you by other posters and myself.
Something you did do - remember? You admitted that a demon cannot be forgiven nor would a demon seek such forgiveness.
Do you remember?
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RE: Signs/Wonders - 12/3/2008 5:13:56 PM
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sledmt
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This is the question I'm left, if I believe as others do on this forum that a demon just leave at the moment of salvation (some how). Why did Christ cast out demons. To be showy. Just for the fun of it. I don't think so. I believe everything that he did for a reason.
Here another thought. In the NT Paul refers to Christ as destorying the works of devil. This included casting out demons and physical healing. So is some of sickness still seen in alot of churchs works of the devil that Christians never took care of? Why are they not totally "made new"?
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RE: Signs/Wonders - 12/3/2008 5:15:40 PM
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sledmt
Posts: 321
Joined: 8/25/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
quote:
ORIGINAL: sledmt
quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
quote:
ORIGINAL: sledmt
Ok, since there has been many questions floating around, whats was your question.
In regards to a demon inhabited/controlled individual.. can those demons accept the Lord as their Savior? Can they repent of their sin?
Why would a demon want salvation. Why would they try to repent? Even if he could, he can't. The Lord has not provided salvation for demons, but for man.
This was your response a few weeks ago. Remember?
That doesn't prove anything.
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RE: Signs/Wonders - 12/3/2008 5:16:06 PM
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earthless
Posts: 6342
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quote:
ORIGINAL: sledmt
Here another thought. In the NT Paul refers to Christ as destorying the works of devil. This included casting out demons and physical healing.
Really? Where are born-again believers promised physical healing in this earthly life?
Want to know where? Nowhere - sickness is part of living in this fallen world. Some are healed and many are not.
We all grow old, get headaches, get the flu, get diarrhea, get wrinkles, get tired, etc.. all part of this fallen world and corrupted flesh.
We all die - the death rate is one per person.
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RE: Signs/Wonders - 12/3/2008 5:18:11 PM
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raivyne
Posts: 1010
Joined: 8/28/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: sledmt
quote:
ORIGINAL: raivyne
Do you believe attaining salvation means one is cleansed and made new? Do you believe a demon can be saved?
So, with your line of thinking, when we are made new, everyone that is blind with unsaved should be healed when they become a believer. How often does this happen?
1. you don't know what my line of thinking is.
2. your statement doesn't even make sense.
3. you haven't answered the two questions. They are very important in me determining where you are coming from.
It is pretty typical that someone who doesn't know (or doesn't have facts to back up) what they are talking about answers a question with a question. Until you answer my questions I'll have to grudgingly assume you don't have the foggiest and go on about my business.
_____________________________
P.U.S.H. – Pray Until Something Happens
What if God is asking us for a sign?
Knowledge is proud; wisdom is humble.
Patiently waiting for my KSA
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RE: Signs/Wonders - 12/3/2008 5:19:53 PM
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sledmt
Posts: 321
Joined: 8/25/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
quote:
ORIGINAL: sledmt
quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
quote:
ORIGINAL: sledmt
quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
quote:
ORIGINAL: sledmt
While we are at it, do explain why you think believers today can't be possessed like they were in the NT.
From Scripture, please show a single example of a born-again believer that is inhabited/possessed by demon(s).
You show me from scripture an example of a demon leaving without being cast out.
That is a straw-man argument.
I asked you several pages back a series of questions which lead you to the answer of your own question. Have you changed your mind on what you believe now compared to a week or two ago?
We keep asking you questions and you keep not answering them. Why is that?
You are doing the same thing. I keep asking the same question, and you keep asking me the same question. When you answer my question, it really answer you question.
Friend,
I have more than answered all of your questions. The problem is that you're now asking a straw-man argument question. And it does not hold water, something you would see if you would answer the questions being asked of you by other posters and myself.
Something you did do - remember? You admitted that a demon cannot be forgiven nor would a demon seek such forgiveness.
Do you remember?
I guess in your mind you think you have answered all the questions. But as I look at your scripture, none of it really address the debate. You have made a bunch of assumptions that I don't see in the Word.
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