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RE: false teachers named? - 10/31/2008 2:43:07 PM
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themoodyexperience
Posts: 1167
Joined: 3/19/2008
From: Tuscumbia, Alabama
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quote:
ORIGINAL: GodsMusic
Benny wants to kill his gainsayers. In one youtube video while on TBN he says he would like to "kill them with a Holy Ghost mashcine gun."
How pathetic is that? Benny Hinn is very well described in 2nd Peter:
Yeah, I don't see anyone on this thread naming BH as a false teacher saying they want to kill him,so......
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RE: false teachers named? - 11/2/2008 10:59:10 AM
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lw9
Posts: 1129
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quote:
Ps103: Anyone who believes in the Nicene creed--I figure God will straighten out any kinks in their cables. They are my brothers and sisters as near as I can tell.
Speaking in general, I think sometimes there's too much trust placed in the Nicene creed and not enough digging deeper to find out the full details of what a church or a leader really believes. Regarding 'leaders' and churches, some give lip service to the Nicene Creed yet turn right around and make their confession completely null and void through spiritually poisonous anti-Biblical/extra-Biblical teachings and doctrinal stances. Seems best to compare their beliefs to scripture. If they [leader or church] proclaims the Nicene Creed yet denies Jesus Christ and His gospel in any way - including His full atonement, His completed work on the cross, salvation through faith not works - then no, I do not accept them as Christian leaders or Christian churches. They are a deception. I will witness to the members if possible and warn others away from that particular leader or church as best I can.
< Message edited by lw9 -- 11/2/2008 11:27:55 AM >
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Aperture Science. We do what we must because we can.
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RE: false teachers named? - 11/2/2008 7:04:03 PM
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lw9
Posts: 1129
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quote:
Um, if they rejected those things, they would be rejecting the Nicene Creed.
No one ever said deception would be obvious or simple. You have to dig deeper to get to the truth. It's very easy for a church to confess a creed but then go on to teach something contradictory and destructive over time, taking the creed as a starting point but slowly adding in their own teachings, their own traditions, their own paths to salvation. A church can eventually deny Christ in a very subtle way with many not even questioning or realizing it because they trusted a church that confessed a creed.
Deception is subtle for a reason.
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Aperture Science. We do what we must because we can.
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RE: false teachers named? - 11/2/2008 8:30:16 PM
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phosadaud
Posts: 11126
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From: Washington State
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That doesn't make the creed the problem. We have churches where I am from who claim to follow Scripture only who do the same thing.
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RE: false teachers named? - 11/2/2008 9:16:18 PM
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lw9
Posts: 1129
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quote:
phosadud: That doesn't make the creed the problem. We have churches where I am from who claim to follow Scripture only who do the same thing.
I'm not saying the creed is the problem. I believe it's 'us' that is the problem. Going back to post #52, "Speaking in general, I think sometimes there's too much trust placed in the Nicene creed and not enough digging deeper to find out the full details of what a church or a leader really believes."
The exact same thing can be said for putting too much trust in leaders/churches that claim to follow Scripture only but are actually not. The problem lies with us and our unwillingness to study these issues more deeply. My whole point is that we can't just swallow everything that seems 'good' on the surface, especially when there are lives in the balance.
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Aperture Science. We do what we must because we can.
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RE: false teachers named? - 11/2/2008 11:53:16 PM
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sledmt
Posts: 321
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Earthless,
I have a question. Just to make sure I understand you, what verses are you using to back you statement about every "thou saith the Lord" must come true??
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RE: false teachers named? - 11/3/2008 9:13:39 AM
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earthless
Posts: 6342
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where pigeons are wearing sweaters....
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quote:
ORIGINAL: sledmt
Earthless,
I have a question. Just to make sure I understand you, what verses are you using to back you statement about every "thou saith the Lord" must come true??
Someone claiming that the Lord is speaking through them is placing themselves on par with Biblical Prophecy. Biblical prophecy plays two roles. It foretells the future, and it explains what the positive or negative results of future events will be.
Prophecy may announce events that bring joy and pleasure or fear and foreboding. When prophecy is ignored, it is usually because the hearers don’t like what they hear for one reason or another. Biblical prophecy is not usually general in nature.
It normally is very specific as to how it will affect someone or something. But it is always dependable and worthy of our complete trust. We can allow prophecy to help shape our lives, giving us direction and guidance in serving our Lord.
It should be a source of strength and instruction for us. Unlike what we hear called “prophecy” today, both in the church and outside the church, true biblical prophecy is always accurate and precise. What God prophesies always occurs.
Are you looking for Scripture that proves the simple truth that true biblical prophecy is always accurate and precise?
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: false teachers named? - 11/3/2008 2:55:24 PM
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sledmt
Posts: 321
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quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
quote:
ORIGINAL: sledmt
Earthless,
I have a question. Just to make sure I understand you, what verses are you using to back you statement about every "thou saith the Lord" must come true??
Someone claiming that the Lord is speaking through them is placing themselves on par with Biblical Prophecy. Biblical prophecy plays two roles. It foretells the future, and it explains what the positive or negative results of future events will be.
Prophecy may announce events that bring joy and pleasure or fear and foreboding. When prophecy is ignored, it is usually because the hearers don’t like what they hear for one reason or another. Biblical prophecy is not usually general in nature.
It normally is very specific as to how it will affect someone or something. But it is always dependable and worthy of our complete trust. We can allow prophecy to help shape our lives, giving us direction and guidance in serving our Lord.
It should be a source of strength and instruction for us. Unlike what we hear called “prophecy” today, both in the church and outside the church, true biblical prophecy is always accurate and precise. What God prophesies always occurs.
Are you looking for Scripture that proves the simple truth that true biblical prophecy is always accurate and precise?
Show me from the word how you build this doctrine.
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RE: false teachers named? - 11/3/2008 3:41:13 PM
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figmentPez
Posts: 2113
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From: TX
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quote:
ORIGINAL: sledmt
quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
Are you looking for Scripture that proves the simple truth that true biblical prophecy is always accurate and precise?
Show me from the word how you build this doctrine.
While Earthless is correct, in that the requirement for true prophecy is found throughout scripture, here it is in a nutshell:
Deut 18:20-22
20'But the prophet who speaks a word presumptuously in My name which I have not commanded him to speak, or which he speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet shall die.'
21"You may say in your heart, 'How will we know the word which the LORD has not spoken?'
22"When a prophet speaks in the name of the LORD, if the thing does not come about or come true, that is the thing which the LORD has not spoken The prophet has spoken it presumptuously; you shall not be afraid of him.
While we aren't called to kill false prophets anymore, we are called to denounce them. If someone speaks a prophecy in the name of the LORD, and that prophecy does not come true, they are a false prophet, and we are not to be afraid to denounce them.
EDIT: Fixed a typo
< Message edited by figmentPez -- 11/3/2008 4:01:07 PM >
_____________________________
I make this challenge to all Christians:
Read Daniel 7:13-14
And tell me: Who do you say that the Son of Man is?
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RE: false teachers named? - 11/3/2008 3:57:38 PM
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kernsfamily
Posts: 1425
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From: Dallas (originally Detroit)
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quote:
While we aren't called to kill false prophets anymore, we are called to denounce them. If someone speaks a prophecy in the name of the LORD, and that prophecy does not come true, they are a false prophet, and we are not to be afraid to denounce them.
It sure is easier said than done, isn't it? Not so much with "false prophets", but with "false teachers"....
I know of one person, in particular, whom my in-laws think is just "WONDERFUL"....and, yet, I quickly discerned was a "false teacher"....and, as I looked more and more into his teachings, the more troubled I was at what was being taught. THOUGH, for every person I determine to be a "false teacher", there are hundreds, if not thousands, of people, who are convinced that the "teacher" in question is biblically solid/correct, and the greatest teacher of scripture that there is. Show them all the "proof", and still, they remain convinced that he speaks "the truth", because they LIKE what they hear, and want to believe that all he teaches is straight from scripture.
In contrast, for all I know, there are people out there who are denouncing my pastor as a "false teacher".....(he's quite well-known, and is on TV & Radio around the world).....and, yet, he's VERY biblically-solid....
One person's "false teacher" is another person's "Biblically-solid teacher" and vice-versa....
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RE: false teachers named? - 11/3/2008 4:00:43 PM
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earthless
Posts: 6342
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From: where pigeons are wearing sweaters....
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kernsfamily,
I have to disagree. Your point would only be valid if the Bible's core essentials were a matter of interpretation. But they are not.
Secondary issues are a whole other matter - but the core essentials - what makes biblical Christianity Christian (and not Mormonism, Jehovah Witness'ism, etc..) are absolute and not matter of interpretation.
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: false teachers named? - 11/3/2008 4:49:22 PM
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Lapidoth
Posts: 3469
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From: OKLAHOMA
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We live in a day (which was prophesied) that
there are no "absolute truths."
Although, the absolute truths have not changed.
They are still there between the covers of our Bibles.
Yet, we divide into the rooms of our choice of right and wrong.
As in the days of sodom and gomorrah.
As in the days of Noah.
You gotta check the clouds with an outstretched hand to see
if it's going to rain brimstone or flood.
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: false teachers named? - 11/3/2008 5:17:24 PM
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Qtman
Posts: 9446
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From: Crimson Tide Country
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I cannot for the life of me figure out why the community continues to let these type of thread stand. The Bible teashes it is each persons responsibility to discern the truth about these false prophets and or teachers. No where does it say, that I can find, we are suppose to publicly name them and or ridicule them. As a matter of fact the Bible also teaches that we are to test those in the "church" and that God will take care of those out of the Church. I know the TOS says we cannot call each other false prohpets, heretics, etc. But apparently if one is not a member then it is open season on them. I find this unChristian and totally uncalled for.
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STRESS = The internal struggle created when the brain trys to over ride the heart's desire to tell off some jerk that really deserves to be told off.
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RE: false teachers named? - 11/3/2008 5:30:25 PM
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solarflare
Posts: 798
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Qtman
I cannot for the life of me figure out why the community continues to let these type of thread stand. The Bible teashes it is each persons responsibility to discern the truth about these false prophets and or teachers. No where does it say, that I can find, we are suppose to publicly name them and or ridicule them. As a matter of fact the Bible also teaches that we are to test those in the "church" and that God will take care of those out of the Church. I know the TOS says we cannot call each other false prohpets, heretics, etc. But apparently if one is not a member then it is open season on them. I find this unChristian and totally uncalled for.
That would be fine if people's lives were not in the balance and in the NT false teachers etc were most certainly named. I have NO problem with naming names........waaaaay too many people purport to speak for God.
God is not the author of confusion....yet so many of these people contradict each other. Open season? Only if they are false!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 
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RE: false teachers named? - 11/3/2008 5:31:41 PM
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solarflare
Posts: 798
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quote:
Yes, it is right to expose error and to name those who are in error. It is right to "earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints" (Jude 3).
YES!
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RE: false teachers named? - 11/3/2008 7:34:58 PM
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lw9
Posts: 1129
Joined: 7/22/2005
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quote:
Qtman: I cannot for the life of me figure out why the community continues to let these type of thread stand.
And I cannot for the life of me comprehend why anyone would not want to warn others away from deceptive and destructive false teachers. Totally astounds me.
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Aperture Science. We do what we must because we can.
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RE: false teachers named? - 11/3/2008 7:37:12 PM
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Qtman
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From: Crimson Tide Country
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I guess it is mainly because you and a few others have declared them to be false does not necessarily mean they are. I am perfectly capable of making that decision myself and do not need any of you to tell me.
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STRESS = The internal struggle created when the brain trys to over ride the heart's desire to tell off some jerk that really deserves to be told off.
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RE: false teachers named? - 11/3/2008 7:38:35 PM
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solarflare
Posts: 798
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quote:
ORIGINAL: drfuss
Something we should keep in mind about false teachers discussed in the New Testament, is that these false teachers were generally within the local church, not in another church or another denomination. There were no other churches in each town or other denominations. There were a number of elders within each church; and not a single elder (senior pastor) system that we have today. So the warnings were generally about false teachers (Elders) within the local church.
Paul, in speaking to the elders of the church of Ephasis, said:
Acts 20:30 - Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.
Uh huh....and there was no TV, radio or internet. So, local was more or less imposed. We don't live in that world anymore and false has a bigger platform from which to cock a doodle doo......and so do those who say..."shut up. we are tired of your lies and misrepresentation of God, His Son and the Holy Spirit."
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RE: false teachers named? - 11/3/2008 7:40:54 PM
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solarflare
Posts: 798
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Qtman
I guess it is mainly because you and a few others have declared them to be false does not necessarily mean they are. I am perfectly capable of making that decision myself and do not need any of you to tell me.
Well then it should not bother you if we have our say too. And FYI, it's not just a few others. More and more people are fed up with men who declare themselves equal with God by saying we should not ever question what they say or tell us to do.
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RE: false teachers named? - 11/3/2008 7:44:03 PM
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lw9
Posts: 1129
Joined: 7/22/2005
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quote:
Qtman: I guess it is mainly because you and a few others have declared them to be false does not necessarily mean they are.
When I and several others here call someone a false teacher or prophet, it is ALWAYS backed up with proof. We cite books, audio, and video evidence of the teacher in question and compare with scripture. If you disagree with the conclusions made, you have every opportunity to take it up in the appropriate thread.
quote:
I am perfectly capable of making that decision myself and do not need any of you to tell me.
Then our posts are not for you. No one is forcing you to read them. 
_____________________________
Aperture Science. We do what we must because we can.
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RE: false teachers named? - 11/3/2008 7:47:46 PM
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earthless
Posts: 6342
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From: where pigeons are wearing sweaters....
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Qtman
I guess it is mainly because you and a few others have declared them to be false does not necessarily mean they are. I am perfectly capable of making that decision myself and do not need any of you to tell me.
So I guess now you see that there is a biblical precedent to name names, to test all things in light of Scripture? Good, praise Jesus!
And you're absolutely right. Just because someone says that _______'s teachings are unbiblical does not mean they indeed are. Which is why we all have access to a Bible and can see if the claim is true or not.
So please feel free to correct me on anyone whose teachings I have tested in light of Scripture on here. I more than welcome any and all correction, rebuking, instruction with the Word. Iron sharpens iron.
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: false teachers named? - 11/3/2008 7:49:52 PM
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Qtman
Posts: 9446
Joined: 3/21/2006
From: Crimson Tide Country
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If Paul was here I would be willing to listen to him. He was a God appointed apostle. You people are not. You are mere mortals that have an opinion as to what is false and what is not.
BTW Paul was not admonishing Peter for false teachings he was talking about hypocracy. Peter acting one way around the Gentiles and another around the Jews. He was talking about Peter's licing like a Gentile and then telling the Gentiles they should live like a jew.
In my opinion no-one on these threads has been appointed an apostle and has no authority to do what y'all seem intent on doing.
_____________________________
STRESS = The internal struggle created when the brain trys to over ride the heart's desire to tell off some jerk that really deserves to be told off.
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RE: false teachers named? - 11/3/2008 8:01:55 PM
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Johnny_
Posts: 395
Joined: 11/26/2006
From: California
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Qtman
In my opinion no-one on these threads has been appointed an apostle and has no authority to do what y'all seem intent on doing.
I am going to politely disagree. The bible doesn't say that we have to be an apostle or an angel to recognize a false teacher and a false prophet. We all have an individual responsibility as stewards of God's word to teach, love, admonish, and rebuke. And if anyone is teaching something that is fundamentally different from what the bible teaches, then you need to call them out and hold them accountable for it. We certainly cannot stop these wolves in sheep's clothing but we can certainly identify them and warn other sheeps.
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