Need input from any guys who are comfortable talking about this. (Full Version)

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Cornhusker00 -> Need input from any guys who are comfortable talking about this. (10/20/2008 1:20:09 PM)

Hi everyone,

first, let me start by saying thank you in advance to everyone who answers this for me. I realize that there is a very long thread going on concerning coming out of homosexuality, but the question I need to ask I need input back from people who HAVEN'T struggled in this area. (You'll see why when i ask.)

Anyway, I have fought with homosexuality for my whole life. (I'm 25) I say fought, not struggled, because this is something I have determined to slay, not live with. I have only been in church for the last 7 years, but my whole life I have had a sense of God and known that homosexuality is not what he wanted. Because of that, I never gave into the desires and have kept myself from that lifestyle (a statement I can only attribute to his grace and love protecting me.).

I can honestly say today that I have no desire for homosexuality and the lifestyles it entails. I came to realize that the whole temptation was never really about sex, but identity and a desire for intimacy with other males that I should have received in a healthy way in my adolescence.

Having said all that, this is what I need thoughts on from other guys. I have read some articles stating that when a boy is first going through puberty and adolescence, they begin looking at the males in their lives who they want to be like, both physically and spiritually/emotionally. According to what I've read, because this happens at a time when hormones are starting to change a boy and sexual feelings begin to emerge, certain physical reactions start happening in the child - I.E., they get aroused when they are around a man that they admire and want to be like even though there isn't a thought about anything sexual. The article even said that the child could wonder what man looks like naked, if their friends are developing as quickly, etc.. Basically, to the kid, everything seems to focus on the physical and sexual feelings, which makes them afraid they are gay.

Is this accurate information? For anyone who feels comfortable asking, is this the experience you had at some point in your adolescence? If so, what happened in your life that this changed for you and went away? The reason i'm asking is because I have delt with the fact that I am not gay, but I'm reading this and it feels like, in a sense, I'm stuck at this stage of adolescence. There are guys in my life I admire and it's like sometimes this reaction comes up in me that is described, even though there is no desire for anything sexual. One example is my best friend. I desire nothing sexual with him, but it's like I have these thoughts of wondering what he looks like naked. I originally thought it was homosexual tendency, but after reading these articles and really thinking about it, I'm wondering if maybe this is just God bringing me back to that point in my adolescence I never developed in and he's wanting to bring me through that, but I've just been afraid of asking the questions that, apparantly, every guy has had at one point.

I believe that God is going to awaken normal attractions in me, and this is the last hurdle in the process, but I just don't know how to get from where I am now to where I want to be. Any help and insight would be appreciated. Thank you again!



mrtigger -> RE: Need input from any guys who are comfortable talking about this. (10/21/2008 11:26:17 AM)

quote:


Is this accurate information?


I've heard a lot of different theories about why people are gay. I doubt that any of them are entirely accurate.

I will say I did not experience anything in my young life of admiring/wanting to be like another guy and confusing it with sexual attraction. The main significant male figure in my young life was my father, and my grandfathers were secondary. Other than those I cannot think of any signficant male figures from back then. I never thought of any of them as sexual in any way.

I remember having some gay fantasies as a teenager but those dimished and went away as a young adult. I think my brain is just not wired to see other guys as sexually attractive.

I think some good heterosexual friendships with other guys might be of help to you in your struggle. Also if you can find a good Christian counseler that might be of help as well.



APZR -> RE: Need input from any guys who are comfortable talking about this. (10/21/2008 1:49:43 PM)

While boys will joke with each other in the locker rooms popping towels, tease about birthmarks, etc., I've never wanted to look at them and see how different we were to fantasize. I've never had the desire to "be with" another boy or man, I've always have been interested in girls. If it wasn't my Mom to fix a boo-boo, it was as a teenybopper ogling over the girls in bikinis. To me, the theory in your book sounds like psyco-babble from a college professor trying to sell his books.



eaglesfeather -> RE: Need input from any guys who are comfortable talking about this. (10/21/2008 3:14:41 PM)

Hey, I just want to say there is nothing wrong with curiosity of any human body. Only man in his folly has developed the mindset that the naked human body should always be related to sex. Curiosity about something non-sinful is not a sin.

I'll also take this opportunity to recommend a book "Wild at Heart" that every man could take value from reading.



Cornhusker00 -> RE: Need input from any guys who are comfortable talking about this. (10/21/2008 5:01:53 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: APZR

While boys will joke with each other in the locker rooms popping towels, tease about birthmarks, etc., I've never wanted to look at them and see how different we were to fantasize. I've never had the desire to "be with" another boy or man, I've always have been interested in girls. If it wasn't my Mom to fix a boo-boo, it was as a teenybopper ogling over the girls in bikinis. To me, the theory in your book sounds like psyco-babble from a college professor trying to sell his books.



I think I need to be clear that I am not talking about FANTASIZING over another guy, and I am also not fantasizing or anything like that over my friend. I'm just trying to make sense of what's going on right now.



beauregarde -> RE: Need input from any guys who are comfortable talking about this. (10/22/2008 8:26:55 AM)

Cornhusker,

Many books, including Wild at Heart, can be reduced to psycho-babble from someone trying to make a buck. What is important is that you are following a chain of events in your life, and trying to make some sense of things. You know your life better than anyone else. If the chain of events is as you described, then run with it. Only by bring truth to the table and laying it out, can it be dealth with.

You are not trying to rationalize poor behavior, condone sin, or explain away a life-style. You are clearing saying, "I know this is wrong, I'm not giving in to it, and I want to be made whole." That is awesome testimony.

In the end, what is being dealt with is the desire to be outside of God's plan for sexual relationships, which are to take place in the bond of matrimony between 1 man and 1 woman.

This desire to be outside of the plan manifests itself in porn, masterbation, fornicate relationships, adultery, vulgar talk, romance novels, lustfuls staring, and other outlets.

God love you brother as you work to clean the cup from inside, instead of just wiping the outside. That's what I see going on right now - and that makes perfect sense.



janidhiro -> RE: Need input from any guys who are comfortable talking about this. (10/22/2008 8:39:49 AM)

Hi Husker:

A lot of what you describe seems pretty normal to me. Everyone goes through their adolescent experiences at different points in their lives. Sometimes curiosity re: another guy is based on admiration: you don't want to be "with" that guy, you may just want to "be" that guy or be like that guy. Our society tends to sexualize everything and this can be confusing to a young person. Don't dwell on the thoughts that scare you. These will diminish through time. When you find yourself in a relationship with a woman who loves and "admires" you for who YOU are, the other stuff will fade in intensity. To echo prior posts, try to establish close relationships with other men. This will also help you to see yourself more an a par with them. Get yourself in an environment where you will encounter naturally occurring naked men such as sports or a gym. This will help you to realize that we are all pretty much the same and will help diminish the curiosity you sometimes experience. Stay away from admiring guys in print or on-line as these are not real people. Stick with real people, real friendships, and real love.



APZR -> RE: Need input from any guys who are comfortable talking about this. (10/22/2008 1:38:02 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cornhusker00

quote:

ORIGINAL: APZR

While boys will joke with each other in the locker rooms popping towels, tease about birthmarks, etc., I've never wanted to look at them and see how different we were to fantasize. I've never had the desire to "be with" another boy or man, I've always have been interested in girls. If it wasn't my Mom to fix a boo-boo, it was as a teenybopper ogling over the girls in bikinis. To me, the theory in your book sounds like psyco-babble from a college professor trying to sell his books.



I think I need to be clear that I am not talking about FANTASIZING over another guy, and I am also not fantasizing or anything like that over my friend. I'm just trying to make sense of what's going on right now.


Well then, I'd say what you are experiencing is maybe normal adolescence... all over again. With a change of mind set, and new commitment to God, your hormones will surge and ebb. I agree with above:
quote:

Sometimes curiosity re: another guy is based on admiration: you don't want to be "with" that guy, you may just want to "be" that guy or be like that guy.
Kind of reminds me of a show I saw... I believe on Discovery Health. A special on sex change operations, and all of the patients said the worse part was the hormone treatments and "going through adolescence all over again". Looking back and thinking... you couldn't pay me enough to take me back to 13. [:D] So no, I don't think you are weird or whacked out... just growing and maturing.



Dan94 -> RE: Need input from any guys who are comfortable talking about this. (10/22/2008 7:10:04 PM)

I have been down that rabbit trail of examining my past experiences while trying to make sense of it all. I find, that with God by my side I do not have to be the sum total of my past life,..sexually or otherwise. The danger is when you start to obsess while trying to figure something out, what happened in your past. To me you sound like your heading in the right direction as you lean on Jesus.
Do not let Satan draw you in and away from Jesus or from Godly counsel you may get in this forum. God knows your confusion and will direct your path....May God bless!



Cornhusker00 -> RE: Need input from any guys who are comfortable talking about this. (10/23/2008 11:36:45 AM)

Thank you, everyone, for your input. This really has helped me to get a grasp on this whole thing...

APZR, I'm suspecting that it is adolescence all over again, but I'm thinking that this time God wants to make me whole through it. One thing that God has been showing me as I have prayed about this is to even change the way I'm praying about it. He has been showing me that in the past, I have prayed from a position of fear rather than faith.. For example, rather than praying "God, break this lie that has rooted itself in my mind and heart," I have made fearful prayers like "God, please take these "attractions" away."

Truthfully, I know that God made me, and when he made me he wired me to be attracted to women... thus the reason I have a penis.. LOL But when adolescence kicked in, all these fears that I was gay were unchallenged because I didn't really have anyone to draw my identity from. My dad was distant, my brothers weren't there, and I was too afraid to ask anyone else because I didn't feel safe. Plus, I wasn't really even sure what to ask.

Up til now, I've dealt with the problem by saying "God, I don't want to be this way," not even realizing that by making this prayer I was believing a lie that simply wasn't true.

So, another question. If any of you reading this who are fathers or mentors to youth had a 12-13 year old kid come up to you and talk to you about anything I described earlier, what your response to them be? I know this sounds crazy, but I think the key in this for me is applying that knowledge and guidance I should have had when I was 13 to my present condition because, in essence, I am still in adolescence. I believe this is where God is leading me to explore right now.



APZR -> RE: Need input from any guys who are comfortable talking about this. (10/23/2008 6:29:49 PM)

To be honest, I don't hide behind vague answers or avoid the question. I learned that from my FIL. He was always straight up with his youngest son, who was about 8 or 9 when I first started dating my now wife. He didn't act like sexual attraction and being a man was something dirty that was to be hidden in a closet. He was open with the questions and answers when his son asked. At first, that was surprising to me, and in complete contrast of my experience in my own family. But I learned that kids will let you know that it's time to talk about sex when they start with the questions about the opposite sex. In my own childhood, and while we were a happy family, my father didn't chose to have "the sex talk" with me until 13. But by then, I had already noticed girls and was wayyy noisy long before... and yes, I found his stash of Playboys. So when my own kids are of the curious age, I do not plan to hide behind avoiding questions.



John_O -> RE: Need input from any guys who are comfortable talking about this. (10/24/2008 9:05:19 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cornhusker00

Thank you, everyone, for your input. This really has helped me to get a grasp on this whole thing...

APZR, I'm suspecting that it is adolescence all over again, but I'm thinking that this time God wants to make me whole through it. One thing that God has been showing me as I have prayed about this is to even change the way I'm praying about it. He has been showing me that in the past, I have prayed from a position of fear rather than faith.. For example, rather than praying "God, break this lie that has rooted itself in my mind and heart," I have made fearful prayers like "God, please take these "attractions" away."

Truthfully, I know that God made me, and when he made me he wired me to be attracted to women... thus the reason I have a penis.. LOL But when adolescence kicked in, all these fears that I was gay were unchallenged because I didn't really have anyone to draw my identity from. My dad was distant, my brothers weren't there, and I was too afraid to ask anyone else because I didn't feel safe. Plus, I wasn't really even sure what to ask.

Up til now, I've dealt with the problem by saying "God, I don't want to be this way," not even realizing that by making this prayer I was believing a lie that simply wasn't true.

So, another question. If any of you reading this who are fathers or mentors to youth had a 12-13 year old kid come up to you and talk to you about anything I described earlier, what your response to them be? I know this sounds crazy, but I think the key in this for me is applying that knowledge and guidance I should have had when I was 13 to my present condition because, in essence, I am still in adolescence. I believe this is where God is leading me to explore right now.


Studies have shown that homosexual attraction is primarily due to three causes. 1) An absent or insufficient relationship with one's father (or other appropriate male role model). 2) being abused or otherwise traumatized, 3) being rleentlessly teased by ones peers during the formative years.

Over 90% of people practicing that behavior admit that one of the first two is present in their lives. In fact IIRC the percentage reported for the first reason is something like 97%.



shoe -> RE: Need input from any guys who are comfortable talking about this. (10/24/2008 10:58:59 AM)

If the data John Q presented is true then I fall into that category. I think that for each person's perspective, there are an unlimited amount of influences that shape how they feel about certain things. The responses to this thread are across the board from one saying that it's normal to compare ourselves to other men, another saying it's got to be a homosexual trait. I guess it depends on who you ask. However, I think that Cornhusker made himself clear that in his mind it wasn't sexual.



Cornhusker00 -> RE: Need input from any guys who are comfortable talking about this. (10/25/2008 1:41:51 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: shoe

If the data John Q presented is true then I fall into that category. I think that for each person's perspective, there are an unlimited amount of influences that shape how they feel about certain things. The responses to this thread are across the board from one saying that it's normal to compare ourselves to other men, another saying it's got to be a homosexual trait. I guess it depends on who you ask. However, I think that Cornhusker made himself clear that in his mind it wasn't sexual.


Unfortunately in this topic, answers vary so much across the board that it makes it very difficult to get practical direction from anyone on it. It's not exactly like alcoholism, where the church and the secular world say it's wrong and you shouldn't do it. Unfortunately, it goes down to your core and identity, and you have a very clear message from the world telling you that's who you are and you should embrace it. Even more confusing is the mixed message from most christians now that offers no help to someone who is really looking for answers and you are just told to "pray about it." No offense to anyone, but that's kind of a "no-duh" statement. Obviously, you are going to pray about it, but what is needed is practical advice on how to restore the part of your soul that this SYMPTOM comes from. (Homosexuality is a symptom of an emotional brokeness.. nothing else.)

Thus, the reason I started this thread. These are real emotions and feelings I am sorting through, and although I appreciate the gesture I don't need statistics of how men turn out gay.. I've read those, understand them, and relate to them. they've offered insight, and I know now beyond the shadow of a doubt that I am not gay and that all of this has been based on a lie and a fear that I didn't have someone to help me sort through when I was an adolescent. What I need now is insight and advice on how to move past these things and, basically, finish adolescence... (hope that makes sense.)



janidhiro -> RE: Need input from any guys who are comfortable talking about this. (10/28/2008 4:48:28 PM)

quote:

What I need now is insight and advice on how to move past these things and, basically, finish adolescence... (hope that makes sense.)


Dear Cornhusker: I am sorry re: your struggle. I think the men who have posted here have offered good advice and perspective. You know that you are not gay and that is a good thing. I do no want to sound critical. I think that maybe if you shift your focus away from yourself and your situation you will make incredible progress. Men are strong; strong men help other people, strong men give of themselves, strong men help the helpless, strong men put other's needs first; these are not only great social values, they are great Christian virtues. Shifting focus will help you establish your strong male identity, who you are in Christ. I am not saying just suck it up and ignore your issues. Just put them in perspective and focus on others. You will be surprised how this can help. I will try to remember to pray for you.



jn1010lf -> RE: Need input from any guys who are comfortable talking about this. (11/7/2008 6:47:00 PM)

Hello Cornhusker00

Quite frankly, I would not get too involved with the questions you raised. That is history, so let me applaud you. I've been down a road similar to yours and we've both taken the right approach to sexual indentity. Let me add some color to your experience in the Bible

God, in the beginning, did a magnificent Adam and Eve routine. Now, I've found no such place in the Bible where He did an Adam and Bruce or Eve and Jane routine. So mucy for God's desire.

I think the answer for any guy is to get close to God, hang out with Him, develop a close relationship with Him. He in turn will make of you what He wants you to be. My experiences has shown me that His response will be to make a guy heterosexual, in freedom and in truth.



squidget -> RE: Need input from any guys who are comfortable talking about this. (11/8/2008 3:43:57 AM)

gday cornhusker honestly it seems that you have it right in that you say its a battle , something to fight .
in romans paul tells us that he was in a struggle ( battle )romans 7;14 to 23 ,
here is where i can relate with battles i have , and its possibly the same in your situation .
L DONT want to do the things i do , as i know there against GODS will . yet i do then .
why ? becauise although im a "new creation" in CHRIST i still live in an old sinfilled body that at times still has some form of control .
paul explains this in romans chapter 7 , take stock in that paul struggled as we do with our issues and yet he showed us that it is not the " real " us the spirit man in us ( because we detest what our flesh is doing ) but the old man that is slowly dying to its self .
you will come through it and it is all to the GLORY of JESUS who is there renewing you step by step eah day
blessings squidge



MisterTR -> RE: Need input from any guys who are comfortable talking about this. (11/11/2008 4:21:19 PM)

It's interesting and enlightening to look through this post. I can't really offer any advice or guidance from a personal perspective, but I'm sure there are some good resources out there. Like with any issue, it sometimes just takes diligence finding the resources you need to help.



deut_3019 -> RE: Need input from any guys who are comfortable talking about this. (11/2/2009 7:33:33 PM)

Hi there. Long-time browser, and have rarely posted. This post caught my eye a while back and I've been apprehensive in posting here. The OP describes me to a "T". I've struggled with this BIG TIME!! Can't go into details at this time as I am posting this from work. I'll catch this later. God Bless.



GroupW -> RE: Need input from any guys who are comfortable talking about this. (11/2/2009 7:44:59 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cornhusker00

According to what I've read, because this happens at a time when hormones are starting to change a boy and sexual feelings begin to emerge, certain physical reactions start happening in the child - I.E., they get aroused when they are around a man that they admire and want to be like even though there isn't a thought about anything sexual. The article even said that the child could wonder what man looks like naked, if their friends are developing as quickly, etc.. Basically, to the kid, everything seems to focus on the physical and sexual feelings, which makes them afraid they are gay.

Is this accurate information?


Yes, I think this can be accurate - descriptive of some people but not of others. At some point, most boys are extremely curious about EVERYTING and simultaneously insecure about nearly ANYTHING. Where any one boy takes that, I think is impossible to predict.

For more information on this, you can try to contact someone at "Where Grace Abounds" - a Christian organization that's very skilled with these kinds of questions. If you need assistance with contact information, feel free to let me know.



johndoo -> RE: Need input from any guys who are comfortable talking about this. (11/7/2009 7:22:30 AM)

I registered just to be able to repond to this post.

I've found it helpful to talk to a christian therapist and read more on my own as you have obviously done. Congratulations on moving through this process on your own so far.

The Kinsey rating scale tells us that people can be rated from 1-6 on the sexuallity scale from 100% homosexual to 100% heterosexual.
If a person is a perfect 3 they are a perfectly balanced bisexual.
The challenge is that then there are those that are a 1.4 and a 2.3 because this all operates on a continuum. Does your peoccupation with the male body mean that you are a 1.2 or higher? I don't know but a therapist may be able to help you sort that out. I don't remember the exact statistics but around 20% of men in surveys have some type of bi tendencies.

The key point as has already been made is that whatever you determine to be your true sexual orientation, doesn't mean that you have to act on it.
Many men don't act on their sexuality until marriage.
And bi and homosexual men don't have to act on their sexuality with others.
And married men shouldn't act on their sexuality with people other than their wife.

I'm glad you have good male friends. That is important. If you are young and unmarried you probably do things together. For older guys it his good to just schedule breakfast or coffee weekly or biweekly for fellowship, "accountability group", "encouragement group" or whatever you call it. As others have suggested, although you think about the physical, what in part your soul needs is emotional intimacy which is not wrong.

God bless you.



DaveW -> RE: Need input from any guys who are comfortable talking about this. (11/10/2009 3:09:04 PM)

Christian counselors John and Paula Sandford (elijahhouse.org) have said that same gender attractions are from a "polarity" in the mind or spirit being reversed, either thru trauma, improper relationships at certain key junctures in life or demonic oppression.

They have had some good fruit of praying for healing - i.e. the magnetic polarity reversing again back to where it is supposed to be.

You may wish to contact them.

Don't know where you live, cornhusker, but they are located in Spokane WA and have trained counselors all over the country. I am sure they could find you one near whereever you live.



Protector_of_Man -> RE: Need input from any guys who are comfortable talking about this. (11/12/2009 8:39:30 AM)

I think what John_O wrote is true. See if any of those points ring true in your life. If it is the first one, or second for that matter, you maybe holding onto resentment towards your father for whatever reason. If this is true you may have to open up about your feelings about your relationship with him. Try and see that however you believe your father has wronged you is due to what has occured for them in life and they did whatever they were capable of in terms of connecting with you. Once you realise that they did whatever they were capable of doing it will give you some perspective in the matter and ultimately allow you to forgive your dad. Ask God to guide you in process. He is father to the fatherless.

God bless you brother,

Protector_of_Man



souljaboy -> RE: Need input from any guys who are comfortable talking about this. (11/17/2009 8:57:05 PM)

quote:

But when adolescence kicked in, all these fears that I was gay were unchallenged because I didn't really have anyone to draw my identity from. My dad was distant, my brothers weren't there, and I was too afraid to ask anyone else because I didn't feel safe. Plus, I wasn't really even sure what to ask.


The cause of homosexuality is not too difficult to ascertain as I discovered when I started couselling young homosexuals. All their stories were virtually the same. The core issue was "my dad was distant".

My counselling did not focus on the homosexuality because that is only the fruit of something deeper. You can't deal with homosexual feelings unless you deal with the spirit of rejection, which is brought on by a distant father who does not affirm your identity. Therefore you seek elsewhere for that and for some that ends up in homosexuality.

Most young homosexuals are always chasing Mr. Right, a person who he sees has the attributes that they would like. Because both are operating out of rejection, they never do find Mr Right because they are too insecure to commit.

I usually start by asking them to tell me about their relationship with their dad and it usually ends up in tears because they realise what they want more than anything is a Dad who cares for them.



deut_3019 -> RE: Need input from any guys who are comfortable talking about this. (11/22/2009 6:29:24 PM)

I took this quote from another thread. What BenQuebec describes about identity struggles, self acceptance issues, etc... seem to fit the bill for me:

quote:

I'd like to share my thoughts on same-sex attraction, in case it may help you. Have you ever thought that perhaps you are attracted to who you want to be (as opposed to who you want to be with)? I've seen men struggle with this, and nearly ever time, these mean have intense identity struggles, struggling to accept themselves - some to the extent of self-loathing, wishing they were someone else. Somewhere along the line, they see a man that they admire, or perhaps that they envy, that they'd like to be like, or identify with, and they mistake these feelings for sexual attraction.


These next quotes from Cornhusker00 (in this thread) describe me to a 'T' as I have previously mentioned (his example about what he felt about his best friend somewhat describes what I struggle with on occasion):

quote:

Having said all that, this is what I need thoughts on from other guys. I have read some articles stating that when a boy is first going through puberty and adolescence, they begin looking at the males in their lives who they want to be like, both physically and spiritually/emotionally. According to what I've read, because this happens at a time when hormones are starting to change a boy and sexual feelings begin to emerge, certain physical reactions start happening in the child - I.E., they get aroused when they are around a man that they admire and want to be like even though there isn't a thought about anything sexual. The article even said that the child could wonder what man looks like naked, if their friends are developing as quickly, etc.. Basically, to the kid, everything seems to focus on the physical and sexual feelings, which makes them afraid they are gay.


quote:

The reason i'm asking is because I have delt with the fact that I am not gay, but I'm reading this and it feels like, in a sense, I'm stuck at this stage of adolescence. There are guys in my life I admire and it's like sometimes this reaction comes up in me that is described, even though there is no desire for anything sexual. One example is my best friend. I desire nothing sexual with him, but it's like I have these thoughts of wondering what he looks like naked. I originally thought it was homosexual tendency, but after reading these articles and really thinking about it, I'm wondering if maybe this is just God bringing me back to that point in my adolescence I never developed in and he's wanting to bring me through that, but I've just been afraid of asking the questions that, apparently, every guy has had at one point.


These have been issues I've dealt with on and off over the years, especially in my teens and early 20s (I'm 40+ now.)

I'm seeking earnest prayer, advice, and guidance in these matters, since they tend to crop up and blind-side me from time to time. Yes, I'm married to a wonderful woman (we are both Christian and regular church attenders) who is aware of these issues, and am a father of 3.

Thanks in advance.



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