Jeremiah 29:11 & 12 (Full Version)

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teaspoon61 -> Jeremiah 29:11 & 12 (10/4/2008 1:14:31 PM)

11.For I know the plans I have for you," declares the Lord, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future. 12.Then you will call upon me and come and pray to me, and I will listen to you. 13.You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart.


This is the Bible verse I have clung to since my divorce. (because of my ex-husband's adultry) I have it taped to my computer at work, Jeremiah 29:11. (But I know the other verses referr to us coming to the Lord and praying to Him.)

Recently, I read the comment that this veres does not apply to us today. . . that it was written for a specific people at a specific point in time for one specific purpose.


This has discouraged me into thinking that I'm not supposed to think that God has plans for me to prosper.

My question is . . . is this true that these Old Testament verses like this were for those specific purposes? am I taking the verse out of context?



colliefan -> RE: Jeremiah 29:11 & 12 (10/4/2008 1:28:23 PM)

quote:


My question is . . . is this true that these Old Testament verses like this were for those specific purposes? am I taking the verse out of context?


While the specifics were directed to Israel, we can take heart in the principles. But remember, there was significant time between the promise and the fufillment in the interim they were to

Jer 29:7 (ESV) But seek the welfare of the city where I have sent you into exile, and pray to the Lord on its behalf, for in its welfare you will find your welfare.



Bluethread -> RE: Jeremiah 29:11 & 12 (10/4/2008 2:38:23 PM)

This is a question of consistency. If one wishes to claim the Creators blessings for Israel, one needs to consider what the Creator expects of Israel. In most countries, one can not claim the rights of that country without becoming a citizen of that country and with citizenship comes certain responsibilities. Unless a person can find a loophole in the Scriptures, as many claim to in the 13th amendment to the US constitution, one needs to accept the requirements of citizenship.

Also, one needs to consider what those plans are. I believe, this verse is about a healthy and vibrant society which the Creator has outlined in His word. They are not a secret lottery ticket that magically makes one's life better. There are specific things that we as citizens of the kingdom can do to begin receiving the Creator's blessings today.



Little_1 -> RE: Jeremiah 29:11 & 12 (10/4/2008 3:29:25 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: colliefan

quote:


My question is . . . is this true that these Old Testament verses like this were for those specific purposes? am I taking the verse out of context?


While the specifics were directed to Israel, we can take heart in the principles.


A few years ago, I was walking home from work. It was during a difficult time (I was being bullied at work) and I had a real heavy heart. I was praying and asking God if I had done anything wrong to bring about my present difficulties. I know the Lord knew my heart and I know He knew the situation. As I was walking down the lane which led to our cottage, the words of Jeremiah 29:11-12 came clearly and loudly into my thoughts.

Now I know these words were originally intended for the Children of Israel (and for a specific purpose at the time they were originally spoken) but I do believe that as Colliefan has said in his post, that we can still take heart in the principles these texts convey even today (many hundreds of years later). I do believe that on that day, the Holy Spirit conveyed to me that God had a plan for my life and that it was a good plan and despite what I was experiencing, nothing or no one was going to alter God's plan.

I have held on to these texts all the years since and more so this past year whilst facing another totally different and much more difficult situation.

The devil would have me believe God's plan for my life is a bad plan and an evil plan (and on the surface, it does look bad) but I know in my heart that the Lord will keep His Word.

I hope you too will be encouraged in the fact that God has a good plan for your life - He will not allow anything to touch your life which cannot bring Him glory and bless you in the process. God can take even the sad situations in our lives and give us "beauty instead of ashes, the oil of gladness instead of mourning, and a garment of praise instead of a spirit of despair." Be encouraged and do not let anything rob you of Your hope in God and the principles and great truths contained in His Word.



makarizo -> RE: Jeremiah 29:11 & 12 (10/4/2008 6:21:26 PM)

'prosper you and not harm you"
psalm 139 tells us that GOD knows everything,

***I don't know if you are taking the verse out of context or not***

what does "prosper" mean to you?
what did it mean to the apostle Paul?
Act 14:19 But Jews came from Antioch and Iconium, and having won over the crowds, they stoned Paul and dragged him out of the city, supposing him to be dead.

after the 70 years of captivity, what great and prosperous thing happened in Israel?
can someone say "antiochus epiphanes"?

Phil 4:13 I can do all things through Christ Who strengthens me.

I like that verse, it goes good with -
2Ti 3:12 Indeed, all who desire to live godly in Christ Jesus will be persecuted.



Bluethread -> RE: Jeremiah 29:11 & 12 (10/4/2008 8:48:40 PM)

The presumption here is that whoever reads this verse can be assured that The Creator has plans for them specifically, and that those plans are all positive without regard for the actions of the hearer or those around him. Then, that person will seek The Creator with all there heart. In my opinion this is not only out of context, but can lead some to continue in self-destructive behaviors.

We are talking about Jeremiah here. He is talking to people who have found themselves in a terrible situation due to the fact that they had rejected The Creators plan. The Creator has a plan, and it is a good plan. The point is that we can only expect to receive the blessings of that plan if we follow it both personally and corporately. As we choose not to follow that plan then we will increasingly put ourselves and others at risk in this life.



Little_1 -> RE: Jeremiah 29:11 & 12 (10/5/2008 11:43:41 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bluethread

......We are talking about Jeremiah here. He is talking to people who have found themselves in a terrible situation due to the fact that they had rejected The Creators plan. The Creator has a plan, and it is a good plan. The point is that we can only expect to receive the blessings of that plan if we follow it both personally and corporately. As we choose not to follow that plan then we will increasingly put ourselves and others at risk in this life.


Regardig these verses, there is also a presumption amongst many Christians that God will bless His people with regards to money, property, cars, etc. Whilst God can bless His people with such, it is far more likely that He is speaking about spritual blessing and spiritual prosperity. That is by far the greatest riches we can be given by God. All worldly riches are nothing like in comparison and come a poor second to those truly following God's plan.



GrahamCracker -> RE: Jeremiah 29:11 & 12 (10/5/2008 5:21:39 PM)

That's why we should be careful about which teachers to listen to. Not everyone who quotes the Bible knows what they are talking about.



bob97 -> RE: Jeremiah 29:11 & 12 (10/5/2008 6:09:24 PM)

Greed is an all consuming force, even for many who claim to be believers. It’s really easy for the false prophet to push these buttons.

Bob



GrahamCracker -> RE: Jeremiah 29:11 & 12 (10/5/2008 6:21:56 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bob97

Greed is an all consuming force, even for many who claim to be believers. It’s really easy for the false prophet to push these buttons.

Bob


Bob,

I have seen some otherwise good ministers misuse this scripture. I would think they would know better. But you are right. If a sound Christian minister can misuse scriptures, it is only a step away from false prophets doing the same thing.



CherishedbyGod -> RE: Jeremiah 29:11 & 12 (10/5/2008 6:28:56 PM)

teaspoon61,

Here is another verse for you

Rom 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

All things!!!

Are all things good? My goodness, no! Especially what you have gone through.

But all things work together for our good!

I am greatly saddened to hear what happened to you....[:(]



teaspoon61 -> RE: Jeremiah 29:11 & 12 (10/5/2008 8:49:09 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bob97

Greed is an all consuming force, even for many who claim to be believers. It’s really easy for the false prophet to push these buttons.

Bob


I wasn't thinking monetarily when I focus on this verse. There are other ways for God to show me "prosperity" . . I like that fact that others have mentiond spiritual prosperity.

I'm thinking on plans for "hope and a future".

Also I have heard others use this verse and fail to read the second two. . . that we come to Him and pray & He will listen.

.



bob97 -> RE: Jeremiah 29:11 & 12 (10/5/2008 10:33:59 PM)

teaspoon...I read the verses to say that God will prosper us in what ever way is in our best interest according to His will. It could be almost anything that would serve His kingdom or His will in general.

I know that God has given me so much in my life and all are things that I didn't deserve...I have no explanation.

I’m far from being wealthy but I certainly have everything that I need. I have good health and God has allowed my wife to recover from liver cancer twice now. But most importantly by His grace He has allowed my wife and me to be His children.

I look back on my life today and can see God’s hand in my well being. He kept me safe in countless situations when I should have died…one could just say I was lucky but I know otherwise. He allowed me to prosper in business…one could say I was skilled but I know otherwise.

I think that God works these small miracles in all believers’ lives. I also think the quality and quantity are subject to the lives we lead. Most people never give them a second thought, thinking that they were just fortunate…I know I did for a long time but as I develop I now see the hand of God at work in my life every day.

Bob



Little_1 -> RE: Jeremiah 29:11 & 12 (10/6/2008 2:43:06 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CherishedbyGod

teaspoon61,

Here is another verse for you

Rom 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

All things!!!

Are all things good? My goodness, no! Especially what you have gone through.

But all things work together for our good!

I am greatly saddened to hear what happened to you....[:(]


I believe all things do work together for good for those who love God and are called according to His purpose that is.

The past year has been the worst year in my hubby and my life and yet it has been the most spiritually blessed. God has taken the terrible situation and brought spiritual good out of it and I praise Him.



Little_1 -> RE: Jeremiah 29:11 & 12 (10/6/2008 2:47:20 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: teaspoon61

quote:

ORIGINAL: bob97

Greed is an all consuming force, even for many who claim to be believers. It’s really easy for the false prophet to push these buttons.

Bob


I wasn't thinking monetarily when I focus on this verse. There are other ways for God to show me "prosperity" . . I like that fact that others have mentiond spiritual prosperity.

I'm thinking on plans for "hope and a future".

Also I have heard others use this verse and fail to read the second two. . . that we come to Him and pray & He will listen.

.


AMEN sister. [:D] These second two verses are some of the best aren't they?

I believe God has a good plan for our future and we can say without doubt that we know He has a good plan for our future, i.e. eternity with Him. ((((((( Hallelujah ))))))). Nothing will change this great hope of all His children. NOTHING. [:D]



phyl2 -> RE: Jeremiah 29:11 & 12 (10/7/2008 3:01:39 PM)

If CherishedbyGod had not brought up Romans 8:28, I would have. Because the whole context of Jeremiah and the promise in 29:11-12 is understood in context with Romans 8:28, and with James 1:2-4, Romans 5:1-5, and 1 Peter 1:3-7.

quote:

Consider it pure joy, my brothers, whenever you face trials of many kinds, 3because you know that the testing of your faith develops perseverance. 4Perseverance must finish its work so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything. James 1:2-4


quote:

Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, weF21 have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand. And weF22 rejoice in the hope of the glory of God. 3Not only so, but weF23 also rejoice in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; 4perseverance, character; and character, hope. 5And hope does not disappoint us, because God has poured out his love into our hearts by the Holy Spirit, whom he has given us. Romans 5:1-5


quote:

Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade--kept in heaven for you, 5who through faith are shielded by God's power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time. 6In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while you may have had to suffer grief in all kinds of trials. 7These have come so that your faith--of greater worth than gold, which perishes even though refined by fire--may be proved genuine and may result in praise, glory and honor when Jesus Christ is revealed. 1 Peter 1:3-7


The trials and hard times we go through are allowed so that we may grow in faith and perseverence, so that we will be refined and become mature and complete, not lacking anything.

God's promise through Jeremiah was given to a people who were headed into some very hard times, into exile. Yet in exile, His chosen not only survived, they thrived. And, God used that exile to scatter His people throughout the world, where He used them to prepare the world for the coming of the Messiah and the Gospel.

In every culture, seekers were drawn to God's chosen and His teaching. These were the people who responded to God's message as spread through the evangelistic travels of Paul.

God's plan for our hope and our future is the Kingdom of God. Their suffering and hope prepared the way for our suffering and hope which prepares us for His Kingdom.



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