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[Poll]
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Evil, created by God?
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| God created evil. |
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| God didn't create evil. |
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Total Votes : 40
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(last vote on : 11/20/2008 1:10:23 AM)
(Poll will run till: -- )
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RE: Evil, created by God? - 10/11/2008 1:59:37 PM
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disciplelife
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quote:
ORIGINAL: dyluck
I can't remember where I heard this but i think it is really interesting example of why God allowed Evil or sin to befall creation (including angels)
I think the easiest answer is: so it will never happen again. I honestly think it is for lack of better words one big lesson to creation.
God seems to not want to create drones that worship him because that's what he created them to do, but have them worship and love and follow him of their own choice.
Yes God already know what will happen, but he does it allows it anyway because it must come to pass... He knows who will go to heaven or hell, but it must come to pass, otherwise God wouldn't be omniscient in foreknowledge, nor would we exist because there wouldn't have been the foreknowledge of God for us.
Well said! God is sovereign and ultimately in control of everything that happens. Satan cannot do anything that God does not allow. God did not create evil, but He allows evil. If God had not allowed for the possibility of evil, both mankind and angels would be serving God out of obligation, not choice. He did not want “robots” that simply did what He wanted them to do because of their "programming." God allowed for the possibility of evil so that we could genuinely have a free will and choose whether we wanted to serve Him or not.
Ultimately, there is not an answer to these questions that we can fully comprehend. We, as finite human beings, can never fully understand an infinite God (Romans 11:33-34). Sometimes we think we understand why God is doing something, only to find out later that it was for a different purpose than we originally thought. God looks at things from an eternal perspective. We look at things from an earthly perspective.
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RE: Evil, created by God? - 10/14/2008 1:17:06 AM
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mikeman2
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It is my opinion that God did NOT create evil. In fact, evil does not really exist in and of itself, rather, the term is used to describe an absence of "good". For example, the term "darkness" is often used to describe evil but in and of itself, darkness does not exist. In fact, you cannot measure darkness in any way because the term darkness is simply a term to describe the absence of light. Light is what is being measured when the term darkness is used. God said, "Let their be LIGHT!!", so it would be assumed that darkness was already present and was NOT created.
The term "cold" is another example. The term "cold" is simply used to describe how much heat something has. Heat can be measured but coldness cannot be measured. In the same fashion, evil does not exist, rather, it is simply a term to describe the absence of God's love in our hearts.
As far as free will, it is of my opinion that the reason we have free will is because God is a God of love. As John once said, "God IS love". To share a mutually loving relationship, both parties MUST have the ability to love or reject the other back and this demands free will. Otherwise, it is simply a mechanical response that we have no control over. In effect, if God programed us to serve and love him he would only be loving himself back and our love for him would mean NOTHING!!!
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RE: Evil, created by God? - 10/14/2008 10:54:52 AM
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Dred
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
To start the ball rolling....
Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.
Proverbs 16:4 The Lord hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.
Amos 3:6 Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the Lord hath not done it?
These are three verses that get tossed around during this debate... And the following to some degree...
Jeremiah 42:6 Whether it be good, or whether it be evil, we will obey the voice of the Lord our God, to whom we send thee; that it may be well with us, when we obey the voice of the Lord our God.
Of course, God did create the wicked though he didn't create them wicked. Evil is a developmental disorder, not a congenital disorder.
As for the Hebrew word which is sometimes translated evil, CARM (a nice general resource) has a little article here:
CARM LINK
When we hear the word "evil", we consistently think of moral evil, but the usage of the relevant word in Hebrew, Greek, and archaic English was not so. Consequently, when we read Isaiah 45:7 (for example) in an older translation, we do usually see the word "evil" but in modern translations, we usually see a word such a "calamity" or "trouble".
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RE: Evil, created by God? - 10/14/2008 11:34:10 AM
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bob97
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Milkman…
I think you’re definition of evil might be pretty much on target; evil is just the absence of God’s moral guidance. Without moral guidance chaos rules.
For whatever reason God did create man with certain urges and these can be used for either good or left unchecked, can go astray…an example of this is sex; God intended it to be used for His purpose but without His guidance man uses it in ways not intended.
When God withdrew His oversight and left man to his own devices things went south pretty fast.
It’s the same with the universe…God created it and controlled it but when He left it to it’s own devices, it started to return to a state of nothingness…useful matter to a state of matter that has no purpose.
Bob
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RE: Evil, created by God? - 10/14/2008 3:36:16 PM
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letusreason
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mikeman2
The term "cold" is another example. The term "cold" is simply used to describe how much heat something has. Heat can be measured but coldness cannot be measured. In the same fashion, evil does not exist, rather, it is simply a term to describe the absence of God's love in our hearts.
It's curious that C.S. Lewis used your example metaphorically when he authored Narnia as a cold place in an endless age of winter (and Christmas never came) while under the rule of an evil force when it was devoid of Aslan and his presence. When Aslan arrived, warmth and spring arrived,,, and evil, along with the cold, was banished.
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RE: Evil, created by God? - 10/15/2008 11:47:38 AM
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Theo-Minor
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I would have to say, personally, that this argument, on its superficial level, is ambiguous. On a deeper level, however, I think the answer is pretty clear.
It could be said that "[...] God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good [...]" (Gen. 1:31), demonstrating that everything God made was good, and none of it, even by implication, was evil.
Or, "[...] by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin [...]" (Rom. 5:12), indicating that sin entered via man, not God.
It can also be argued that by context, Isaiah 45:7 should be translated "calamity," since the passage is indicating point and counterpoint (antonyms). Light/Dark, Good/Bad, Peace/Calamity. He forms the light and creates the dark, he makes peace and creates adversity.
However, it can also be argued that all things originate with God, including sin. To suggest that he did not create it implies that he either created something flawed, or that there was something already in existence that he did not create. Either sin was in man accidentally (God had to say "oops"), else sin would have to be viewed as a virus. It was a bad element floating aimlessly in limbo until it had a host to attack, and it infected an otherwise perfect creation. It's something that either the creator created, or that predated the creator in order to be outside the creator's creation.
That's the logical rationale.
From a scriptural perspective, Christ's sacrifice was foreordained before the foundation of the world (1 Pet. 1:20, Rev. 13:8). Before God even created man, the lamb was already slain. It was part of God's great plan ... the "dispensation of the fulness of times" (Eph. 1:10).
Viewing it from that angle, God knew that sin would be present, that it would kill man, and that he would have to sacrifice his son to redeem the world. In which case, being omnicient ... knowing the inevitable outcome ... he still allowed it to happen.
In fact, it can even be demonstrated through scripture that he created the sin, even if man was the one responsible for allowing it to enter into the world.
Paul says that where there is no law, there is no transgression (Rom. 4:15) ... hence, no sin, for we were "alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived," and we died (Rom. 7:9).
Note that in Genesis 2:16-17, "[...] the Lord God commanded the man, saying, of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it [...]"
Man/woman would not have known the desire to eat from the tree, except that God said, "thou shalt not eat of it" (cf. Rom. 7:7-8).
It might also be pointed out that God, "planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed. And out of the ground made the Lord God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil" (Gen. 2:8-9). So it can be demonstrated that the knowledge of good and evil, was put in the garden by God himself, and since this was merely the knowledge of evil, it can be further argued by inference that evil already existed and predated man and his original sin.
But to cut to the chase, the fact that God planted the tree of the knowledge of good and evil in the Garden of Eden clearly demonstrates that God creates evil. Regardless of whether or not it predated man, God created evil when he gave the commandment and created the choice. To eat, or not to eat. To obey the commandment and not eat equals good. To disobey the commandment and eat equals evil. If God had not given mankind the choice to do evil via a commandment that defined right and wrong, man could never have failed. In other words, the moment God defined right and wrong, evil came to be.
All this, of course, ties back into the dispensation of the fulness of times. The lamb was slain from the foundations of the earth ... not after the creation of man, but from the moment of creation itself. God planned it all ... the fall, the law, the crucifixion, the redemption, etc. In which case, it can again be argued that God created evil as a necessary evil to accomplish the end result, which is a deliberate, chosen relationship between man and God rather than, as someone else put it, a bunch of robots doing good because they don't know anything else.
As for arguments about Lucifer and the rebellion ... that's an allegorical creation of Origen in The First Principles, which was later expanded upon in Milton's Paradise Lost. The concept of the fall, prior to the third century, was that angels left their spiritual state and took wives from the daughters of man.
Satan, or Azazel (from the Jewish context), didn't fall with them at that time. In fact, he had nothing to do with it. Azazel taught man how to make weapons of iron, and other things that might be construed as knowledge of evil things. 2 Peter and Jude are both clearly quoting the same source material, which Jude specifies as Enoch, out of which this concept derives.
Satan's fall, from a truly Biblical perspective, was the lie. Satan isn't known as the father of rebellion, or the father of murder, or anything like that. He is the father of lies, because that is his stigma. He lied to the woman, so God said to him, "because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life: And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel" (Gen. 3:14-15).
Because thou hast done this ... That's the reason for his fall. Cain is known for his murder. The serpent is known for his lie.
So the angels fell for taking mortal women as wives, and Satan fell for lying to the woman, which can both be validated in scripture (Jude 1:6, 2 Pet. 2:4, Gen. 6:1-4, Gen. 3:14-15). There is otherwise no real evidence for some grand rebellion in heaven (the idea of which is ludicrous to begin with). If one chooses to do the research on the passages in Isaiah and Ezekiel, they will find that they don't really add up. Origen read something into the passages that wasn't there. He allegorized it, which he was actually known for doing in many other circumstances.
All of this (about the fall) is more appropriate in its own thread, however.
These are my thoughts on the matter.
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Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. (Ecclesiastes 12:13)
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RE: Evil, created by God? - 10/15/2008 1:11:16 PM
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Jhud
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quote:
It is my opinion that God did NOT create evil. In fact, evil does not really exist in and of itself, rather, the term is used to describe an absence of "good". For example, the term "darkness" is often used to describe evil but in and of itself, darkness does not exist. In fact, you cannot measure darkness in any way because the term darkness is simply a term to describe the absence of light. Light is what is being measured when the term darkness is used. God said, "Let their be LIGHT!!", so it would be assumed that darkness was already present and was NOT created.
I would say I agree strongly with this understanding of evil, and I would take it further by saying that in creating man, God made a creature that had the possiblity of living apart from God; and as much as humans do so, they live evil lives. Christ put it this way:
John 3:19
"This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil.
Darkness (or evil) is not something in and of itself, it is the absence of something - light or Christ.
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It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first..
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RE: Evil, created by God? - 10/16/2008 10:33:00 AM
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bob97
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If God created something from nothing (darkness) then that darkness existed before God created. God imposed His will upon this void and created good.
If God withdrew His will from this creation it would return to darkness (entropy).
I think it's possible that darkness or what we call evil existed before God created. So God didn't created evil...He overcame it.
Bob
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The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: Evil, created by God? - 10/16/2008 11:30:57 AM
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Jhud
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quote:
If God created something from nothing (darkness) then that darkness existed before God created. God imposed His will upon this void and created good.
If God withdrew His will from this creation it would return to darkness (entropy).
I think it's possible that darkness or what we call evil existed before God created. So God didn't created evil...He overcame it.
That's an interesting take - but I don't know that any thing existed before God created the universe - All we really have to go on is 'In the beginning'. I don't know there was a void, rather that there was only God.
But I certainly can't be dogmatic on the issue.
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It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first..
- Ronald Reagan
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RE: Evil, created by God? - 10/16/2008 1:34:19 PM
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URForgiven
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bob97
If God created something from nothing (darkness) then that darkness existed before God created. God imposed His will upon this void and created good.
If God withdrew His will from this creation it would return to darkness (entropy).
I think it's possible that darkness or what we call evil existed before God created. So God didn't created evil...He overcame it.
Bob
God creates out of darkness (evil)?
Peace
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are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?" Galatians 3:3
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RE: Evil, created by God? - 10/16/2008 2:03:06 PM
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Dred
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I have been a bit surprised at how many here have expressed that they understand evil to be a lack of something. I agree. As the Eastern Orthodox like to put it 'evil is nothing'. However, I do not think that, as a consequence, we should say that evil predates God's creation. As I understand it, evil is nothing, but it is a specific kind of nothing. It is an empty spot where something should be. Before creation, there were no empty spots; now there are. For example, the human heart and mind should be filled with love and wisdom, though that is often not the case.
Consider the human mind. When it is very young, there is no problem with a lack of wisdom. As time passes, the mind will develop. Will it develop into a mind filled with truth or lies, wisdom or habitual foolishness? In both minds, there is a real development--a structure. In one case it is a rather empty structure. Perhaps this is why the judgment analogy using a building built upon the only foundation (Christ) with gold, silver, precious stones vs. wood, hay, straw is so apt (1 Cor. 3). Gold, silver, and precious stones are all very solid, relatively dense materials into which fire cannot penetrate. However, hay, straw, and (to a lesser extent) wood, are structures with little substance. Hot gasses quickly penetrate and consume them. Hay and straw are so volatile because the volume they occupy is mostly air. They are visible and appear to be something, but are mostly nothing.
God lays a foundation for our being and it is held together in Christ. However, as we mature, every choice we make builds a more developed person on that foundation. Certainly, choices may result in habits and habits are part of character.
Is evil the building of a light, relatively empty structure upon the initial foundation of one's being--a house made of straw?
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"We count any belief in Him, even the smallest belief, better than any belief about Him." --from Robert Falconer, by George MacDonald
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RE: Evil, created by God? - 10/23/2008 3:45:39 PM
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dyluck
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hmmm interesting. I agree a little on everyone's side.
first of all... We cannot comprehend God, but the bible specifically says that He is the only alpha and omega. God has no begining and has no end. therefore, God pre-dates darkness or evil or what have you. God himself is prefect. You cannot have order without conflict. On of God's noted atributes is that he desires unconditional love toward him. The angeles as they are now cannot control their love toward God. Clearly they had choice before or God instilled it in Lucifer to have choice (Lucifer was noted the first one to ever sin - therefore physical darkness is not a result of sin nor is it a product of sin as there was void before creation of earth/universe).
I believe this whole thing was a test and an example. 1 God created us with choice although chosen by him and we would not seek him without him and his "removing of the heart of stone and putting in a heart of flesh". God's desire is for us to come to him and worship him on our own wanting. Remember, Adam and eve had the choice, eat or don't eat from the tree.... The devil uses a lie and decipt to make them think that they will be of the knowledge of God if they do (power) and so they sinned. We are in a different situation becasue we are born in sin and therefore cannot come to God unless he interveens in our hearts.
Death is a result of a curse of transgression against Gods grace and love. So was the ability to sin in God's purpose in the end? I say yes.
Really is a good example for this never to happen again to creation and number 2 to find out who truly wants to seek God.
One may say "why does this sinful time need to happen if God already knows what will happen and people will go to Hell". Well if God already knew and decided to not create us because of sin, then he didn't already know because it wouldn't come to pass... Therefore everything predestined by God must come to pass otherwise God is not all powerful. Make sense?
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RE: Evil, created by God? - 10/23/2008 7:08:30 PM
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1love1God1way
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bob97
If God created something from nothing (darkness) then that darkness existed before God created. God imposed His will upon this void and created good.
Bob
Nothing and darkness are not synonymous.
Darkness is SOMETHING.
There was nothing.
We don't know what nothing is. We can't imagine nothing.
When we think of "nothing" we think of a dark empty room. But that darkness, that space the darkness takes up, that's all something.
We have to imagine a God that created out of a nothing that didn't even contain space.
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RE: Evil, created by God? - 10/24/2008 1:18:01 AM
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bob97
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Ben...it is interesting that in Gen 1:2 we have both a void and darkness isn't it?
Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
Bob
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The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: Evil, created by God? - 10/24/2008 10:22:28 AM
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dyluck
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Brother bob,
Look at the first verse
" 1 In the beginning God created the heavens (starless darkness / the void / universe) and the earth"
Look at the context of the next verse:
" 2 Now (at this point), the (newly created) earth was [a] formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.
" 3 And God said, "Let there be light," and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and He separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light "day," and the darkness he called "night." And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day. " (God creates phyical light for the first time and can be visible in the sky calling it day and night... therfore this context was the separation of light and darkenss and the sky of earth in which day and night can be distinguished, notice though, this is not the sun.... as later in verse 14 he creates the sun, moon and stars).
Then read verse 14 in which the sun, moon and stars give the light.
Phyical darkness has no corilation with actual sin except it is used to represent it's characteristics and it's reaction to light.
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RE: Evil, created by God? - 10/24/2008 10:46:22 AM
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bob97
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Hi dyluck...
The real point of contention here is; is evil just the absents of God's perfect will. As an example consider Mat 23;
Mat 22:13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness ; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Evil is just the absents of God and man is left to his own devices. Darkness is equated to evil.
In the beginning God's will was not imposed on the void and it was dark. It was only when God imposed His will on it and created did good exist.
Bob
_____________________________
The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: Evil, created by God? - 10/24/2008 7:01:19 PM
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dyluck
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bob97
Hi dyluck...
The real point of contention here is; is evil just the absents of God's perfect will. As an example consider Mat 23;
Mat 22:13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness ; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Evil is just the absents of God and man is left to his own devices. Darkness is equated to evil.
In the beginning God's will was not imposed on the void and it was dark. It was only when God imposed His will on it and created did good exist.
Bob
Yes for sure. The scripture runs in conjuction with "outer darkness" and "firey furnice / lake of fire". This indicates to me that the lake of fire will be absent from light or Glory of God. The destruction of Sin will be carried out in absence from God himself in his wrath in the lake of fire in eternal darkenss of burning sulfur.
Now the point I was making before was that God is the only thing that always was; therefore, darkness wasn't always there otherwise darkenss is just as eternal as God. If you join darkness to "always was" then sin to darkness (blackness / void), then sin was just as eternal as God, which is totally not true. The bible does not indicate that anywhere, only that God has no begining. Sin didn't come into the picture until just before the fall of Satan. If you look at the doctrine of Sin and Satan, you can see what God did with "choice" therefore, sin had a purpose that ultimately circles back to the reasoning of God in which we truly cannot understand.
Remember the tree of the knowledge of Good and evil??? Who created that tree?
Genesis 2:9
And the LORD God made all kinds of trees grow out of the ground—trees that were pleasing to the eye and good for food. In the middle of the garden were the tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
here is the devil trying to make Adam and eve sin by power (just like the devil did himself).
Genesis 3:5
"For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."
22 And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever."
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RE: Evil, created by God? - 10/27/2008 7:45:37 PM
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Fledgling
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quote:
Coincidentally...both Obama & Oprah begin with a zero...
What is the significance of a zero? although they begin with a capital O.
I can't find zero anywhere in the bible.
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RE: Evil, created by God? - 10/27/2008 8:37:22 PM
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Theo-Minor
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Nor will you find it in any other early literary works. Zero didn't exist until about the seventh century AD.
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Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. (Ecclesiastes 12:13)
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RE: Evil, created by God? - 10/28/2008 9:39:24 AM
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bob97
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Hi dyluck…
Have you ever wondered where the evil that was found in Satan originated? God created Satan and he was perfect. Satan was given authority by God and that authority corrupted Satan…where did the tendency come from?
Ezekiel 28:13 - 15 (KJV) 13Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. 14Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. 15Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
The other thing that gives me pause…it seems that God was surprised.
Bob
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RE: Evil, created by God? - 10/28/2008 5:04:31 PM
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dyluck
Posts: 155
Joined: 9/2/2008
Status: offline
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Hi bob, I see what you are saying from a logical standpoint, but you and I know, God works in mysterious ways.
Lucifer was perfect by the definition of carnal perfection, but still not the holiness / perfection of God. Satan wasn't devinly holy and therefore could be compared to other cheribs unlike God whom cannot be compared. That is why God says "I am that I am". I think the perfection stated for Lucifer was as perfect as something can be. Lucifer was never heir to the thrown of God; therefore could never be truly holy.
I do believe though, absolute power corrupts power absolutely. This is the carnal reason lucifer did what he did; however, God surpised is not something I would say as God already knew. The fall of Satan was what I believe, in his design. Why do you think the devil will not repent? Why does the devil and his cohorts hate God so much??? I have a feeling that is one of the reasons.
Now... remember, the devil took 1/3 of the angels with him, which means he had time to deceive them. God knew what was going on; again, in his design. It was until he was actually found with iniquity (actually commited the sin) that he was cast out.
Read:
Romans 9:22-23
22What if God, choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath—prepared for destruction? 23What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory—
This verse suggests that God made what God made (objects of destruction or mercy) to show his love and mercy to the objects of his mercy (us and his angels and his creatures and creation).
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RE: Evil, created by God? - 10/28/2008 9:14:21 PM
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Fledgling
Posts: 71
Joined: 8/11/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
Have you ever wondered where the evil that was found in Satan originated? God created Satan and he was perfect. Satan was given authority by God and that authority corrupted Satan…where did the tendency come from?
Ezekiel 28:13 - 15 (KJV) 13Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. 14Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. 15Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
The other thing that gives me pause…it seems that God was surprised.
I see what you mean RC. I have always thought that heaven is perfect. But it seems like things can go wrong in heaven, as they have. And I am a firm believer in God but in that passage it does seem like he made Satan to be perfect.. and expected him to be so... then Satan wasn't but became, defiled by sin. It does make one pause, because God is believed to be perfect and all knowing. If he makes something that is perfect you would expect it to remain? perfect. I guess angels in heaven have free will also.. free will to be evil.. so then is heaven not perfect.. Is there free will there and also evil?
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RE: Evil, created by God? - 10/28/2008 9:34:12 PM
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bob97
Posts: 1902
Joined: 6/24/2006
From: Kansas
Status: offline
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My point is that sin preceded Satan other wise he could not have been corrupted by it. Satan didn’t invent sin…if there had not been a potential for sin then Satan would not have committed it.
Bob
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