quote:



Back to the original posters post, what she heard was from some extreme right, conservative Christian. Not all Christians are like that, it doesn't mean we're less of a Christian to vote for someone who would want advocate a women's right to chose if she were in that situation. No Christian should be questioned about their faith based on political issues... I forgot when it was okay and alright to question fellow Christians if that made them less of one or more... or if one party is more of God or less... come on my so-called brothers and sisters in Christ.

quote:

But it's okay for those to be murdered via wars?

quote:

Neither is okay and if you really took the time to be as objective as you say you are, then you'll know he's not really pro abortion, no candidate really is, but he is for women's right in that arena, meaning if they were raped or what have you, then the choice should be available for them.

quote:

Back to the original posters post, what she heard was from some extreme right, conservative Christian. Not all Christians are like that, it doesn't mean we're less of a Christian to vote for someone who would want advocate a women's right to chose if she were in that situation. No Christian should be questioned about their faith based on political issues... I forgot when it was okay and alright to question fellow Christians if that made them less of one or more... or if one party is more of God or less... come on my so-called brothers and sisters in Christ.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jhud

quote:

Even if Mccain was in favor of pedophilia rights, I STILL would not vote for him! so you see, nothing can make me like him.

And what about Obama, if endorsing the murder of the unborn isn't bad enough to stop you from supporting him, what would be?

quote:



Anyone who knowlingly supports a candidate who favors Roe vs. Wade essentially supports the ongoing existence of abortion in the US.

quote:

You are mistaken in the way you interpret a vote for obama. a vote for obama is NOT a vote for roe v wade. I am NOT in favor of abortion (except POSSIBLY for some case by case of ectopic pregnancy IF it will kill both mom and child.))

I hate abortion, but i like obama in spite of that issue correlated with him.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe

quote:

ORIGINAL: campbe33

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jhud

quote:

When people die by gun violence it affects more people. It rips families, friends, students and the world apart.

Sure, as do car accidents; but abortion literally and intentionally rips a human being apart.

So do gunshot wounds. Shooting someone can be intentional or unintentional.

Abortion is always intentional... It's a method of murder...

quote:

SPEAKING OF WHICH - ectopic pregnancy - where in many/most cases, the baby will die and/or kill the mother and if left to grow, it could kill the baby and/or the mother.

now all of you who are against abortion, if you truly bleieve it, if you had an ectopic pregnancy, you would not have an abortion, even if its a medical emergency,, is that correct?

if you make an excuse for that, you are talking out of two sides of your mouth. i'll be nice and not call you a hypocrite.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jhud

quote:

SPEAKING OF WHICH - ectopic pregnancy - where in many/most cases, the baby will die and/or kill the mother and if left to grow, it could kill the baby and/or the mother.

now all of you who are against abortion, if you truly bleieve it, if you had an ectopic pregnancy, you would not have an abortion, even if its a medical emergency,, is that correct?

if you make an excuse for that, you are talking out of two sides of your mouth. i'll be nice and not call you a hypocrite.

So you are saying that self-preservation (protecting ones life when it is threatened) justifies intentionally murdering someone for any reason when one's life is not threatened?

If that kind of thinking makes one a 'non-hypocrite', then I am more than happy to be called a hypocrite.

quote:

yes but you see how you define abortion when its convenient for you, its ok. if you are TRULY against abortion, you would trust God and not surgically remove the unborn baby. Some ectopic pregnancies have gone on and not been aborted and the kid is flourishing! I saw this on Discovery Channel this week in fact. Amazing!!! what a beautiful child!!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jhud

quote:

YOU brought up the pedophilia thing - the day you can find me where either candidate is pulling for pedophilia rights, then we will talk about your comparison!

I think John was apparently trying to find out what the worse thing a candidate could advocate and still get your support; apparently it is somewhere between murder and pedophilia. Not quite sure how narrow a line that is though.

quote:

ORIGINAL: campbe33

No, it is not. When a woman has a miscarriage she has aborted her baby.

quote:

ORIGINAL: IMA_CHRISTIAN

quote:



Anyone who knowlingly supports a candidate who favors Roe vs. Wade essentially supports the ongoing existence of abortion in the US.

You are mistaken in the way you interpret a vote for obama. a vote for obama is NOT a vote for roe v wade. I am NOT in favor of abortion (except POSSIBLY for some case by case of ectopic pregnancy IF it will kill both mom and child.))

I hate abortion, but i like obama in spite of that issue correlated with him.

quote:

ORIGINAL: IMA_CHRISTIAN


You are mistaken in the way you interpret a vote for obama. a vote for obama is NOT a vote for roe v wade. I am NOT in favor of abortion (except POSSIBLY for some case by case of ectopic pregnancy IF it will kill both mom and child.))

quote:

ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe

quote:

ORIGINAL: IMA_CHRISTIAN

quote:



Anyone who knowlingly supports a candidate who favors Roe vs. Wade essentially supports the ongoing existence of abortion in the US.

You are mistaken in the way you interpret a vote for obama. a vote for obama is NOT a vote for roe v wade. I am NOT in favor of abortion (except POSSIBLY for some case by case of ectopic pregnancy IF it will kill both mom and child.))

I hate abortion, but i like obama in spite of that issue correlated with him.

Interesting... It's like how people hate what John Gotti did but like the man nonetheless...

How does that work? I have this thing in my hand that I don't like how is feels, the color, it's too heavy, made in the wrong country, and it doesn't glow in the dark... I hand it to the clerk and tell her I'll take it...

quote:

ORIGINAL: IMA_CHRISTIAN

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jhud

quote:

Even if Mccain was in favor of pedophilia rights, I STILL would not vote for him! so you see, nothing can make me like him.

And what about Obama, if endorsing the murder of the unborn isn't bad enough to stop you from supporting him, what would be?

well thats a big question that deserves a better answer than i have at this time. when i get home later i will expound.

what i could say now would take more time than i have..but in a few short words,,, it has to do with whomever will do the best for me as a citizen, thats who i will vote for. and who i personally like better as a person.

plus im sick of this 8 years of bush, i just want somthing different. with mccain i forsee things as they are now. of course, we will not know till the end of his term, but i am willing to take the chance on obama.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kia364

I believe that abortion is an INDIVIDUALS decision. If they want to kill their child and have that put on their conscious and soul then that's them. Your job is to tell them why its wrong and if they decide to do it anyways, how are you going to be responsible for their actions? You're not.
If women want to abort their babies, then they WILL find a way whether there is a law against abortion or not. If there isn't abortion clinics what makes you think that women won't throw their newborns into the trash? This is the world, inform them and if they don't listen then all you can do is pray for them.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LabGuy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lizahana

You're speaking of Senate bill 1173, correct?

Here is the summary:

"S. 1173: Freedom of Choice Act - Declares that it is the policy of the United States that every woman has the fundamental right to choose to: (1) bear a child; (2) terminate a pregnancy prior to fetal viability; or (3) terminate a pregnancy after fetal viability when necessary to protect her life or her health.
Prohibits a federal, state, or local governmental entity from: (1) denying or interfering with a woman's right to exercise such choices; or (2) discriminating against the exercise of those rights in the regulation or provision of benefits, facilities, services, or information. Provides that such prohibition shall apply retroactively.
Authorizes an individual aggrieved by a violation of this Act to obtain appropriate relief, including relief against a governmental entity, in a civil action."

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=s110-1173

The only difference between the laws today, and the aforementioned, is that this bill allows for partial birth abortions when the mother's life, health is endangered.

Peace and God bless,

The Partial-Birth Abortion Ban already includes an exception to protect the life of the mother:

"This subsection does not apply to a partial-birth abortion that is necessary to save the life of a mother whose life is endangered by a physical disorder, physical illness, or physical injury, including a life-endangering physical condition caused by or arising from the pregnancy itself."

The "get out of jail free" card in FOCA is the term "health", which the bill does not define. From nrlc.org on that point:

"The no-restriction policy would also apply after 'viability' to any abortion sought on grounds of 'health.' The bill does not define 'health,' but in some past abortion cases the Supreme Court has sometimes used the term to apply to any physical or emotional consideration whatsoever, including 'distress.'"

It is known full well what that ambiguous exception will result it:

"The lawmakers proposing the legislation, and groups endorsing it, repeatedly emphasized that the bill would, among other things, completely nullify the national ban on partial-birth abortion that the Supreme Court upheld on April 18 in Gonzales v. Carhart."

"Kim Gandy, president of the National Organization for Women, also tied the FOCA directly to the Supreme Court ruling, explaining in an e-mailed alert that the bill 'would legislatively reverse the Court's damaging decision and will enshrine in federal law our right to safe, legal abortion. . . . Our ultimate success depends on electing a president who will sign the legislation and electing a Congress that can withstand any challenge or filibuster.'"

As for other current protections, it is also perfectly understood what the bill would do to them:

"In a factsheet posted on its website, the Planned Parenthood Federation of America (PPFA) explains, 'FOCA will supercede anti-choice laws that restrict the right to choose, including laws that prohibit the public funding of abortions for poor women or counseling and referrals for abortions. Additionally, FOCA will prohibit onerous restrictions on a woman's right to choose, such as mandated delays and targeted and medically unnecessary regulations.'"

Please read the full article here.

-Robb

quote:

ORIGINAL: ljmac

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lizahana

quote:

ORIGINAL: ljmac

quote:

McCain's nrlc.org score 66%

This is dishonesty on display. After years and years of a nearly perfect pro-life abortion record, the poster presents an evaluation of McCain based on three votes. To top it off, the one vote that McCain differed with the NRLC on, isn't even on abortion.

On the NRLC home page you can find:

- A link titled, John McCain-A Champion for Our Issue

- Another link, Barak Obama's Actions and Shifting Claims on the Protection of Born-Alive Aborted Infants...

The NRLC is dedicated to stopping BHO and electing John McCain.
Stop the Obama killing machine

Justice, Peace and McCain for the unborn

That was not dishonesty, ljmac, and you know it - here is McCain's 66% - a score that has been there for months - from the nrlc.org's own website:

"John McCain (R-AZ) X O NV X NV NV NV 2 1 66%"

http://www.capwiz.com/nrlc/scorecard.xc?chamber=S&state=US&session=110&x=12&y=11

And it is a fact that there are over a dozen Democrats that score better than McCain on the nrlc.org - please DO let me know if you want me to post them from the nrlc.org for the 3rd or 4th time again.

Peace and God bless,

The dishonesty is that you've taken three votes out of twenty years and presented them as an accurate representation of his record. It isn't. Then you've compounded your dishonesty by using those three votes in a abortion thread when the one time he disagreed with the NRLC wasn't even about abortion.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lizahana

quote:

ORIGINAL: ljmac

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lizahana

quote:

ORIGINAL: ljmac

quote:

McCain's nrlc.org score 66%

This is dishonesty on display. After years and years of a nearly perfect pro-life abortion record, the poster presents an evaluation of McCain based on three votes. To top it off, the one vote that McCain differed with the NRLC on, isn't even on abortion.

On the NRLC home page you can find:

- A link titled, John McCain-A Champion for Our Issue

- Another link, Barak Obama's Actions and Shifting Claims on the Protection of Born-Alive Aborted Infants...

The NRLC is dedicated to stopping BHO and electing John McCain.
Stop the Obama killing machine

Justice, Peace and McCain for the unborn

That was not dishonesty, ljmac, and you know it - here is McCain's 66% - a score that has been there for months - from the nrlc.org's own website:

"John McCain (R-AZ) X O NV X NV NV NV 2 1 66%"

http://www.capwiz.com/nrlc/scorecard.xc?chamber=S&state=US&session=110&x=12&y=11

And it is a fact that there are over a dozen Democrats that score better than McCain on the nrlc.org - please DO let me know if you want me to post them from the nrlc.org for the 3rd or 4th time again.

Peace and God bless,

The dishonesty is that you've taken three votes out of twenty years and presented them as an accurate representation of his record. It isn't. Then you've compounded your dishonesty by using those three votes in a abortion thread when the one time he disagreed with the NRLC wasn't even about abortion.

ljmac, I quoted DIRECTLY from nrlc.org itself - if you don't like the score that they give McCAin, the same one he's had for months, then I suggest that you write to them.

Peace and God bless,

quote:

ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe

quote:

ORIGINAL: IMA_CHRISTIAN

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jhud

quote:

Even if Mccain was in favor of pedophilia rights, I STILL would not vote for him! so you see, nothing can make me like him.

And what about Obama, if endorsing the murder of the unborn isn't bad enough to stop you from supporting him, what would be?

well thats a big question that deserves a better answer than i have at this time. when i get home later i will expound.

what i could say now would take more time than i have..but in a few short words,,, it has to do with whomever will do the best for me as a citizen, thats who i will vote for. and who i personally like better as a person.

plus im sick of this 8 years of bush, i just want somthing different. with mccain i forsee things as they are now. of course, we will not know till the end of his term, but i am willing to take the chance on obama.

Since a vote for Obama isn't one for abortion on what grounds have you determined that a vote for McCain is for the status quo? How does that work? Is there a method to this? Even if McCain said he was for the status quo voting for him wouldn't be a vote for it, right? Isn't that how it works?