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RE: $700B Bailout is MY fault America - 9/30/2008 11:32:26 AM
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GregandJenny
Posts: 616
Joined: 2/16/2006
From: Near Seattle Washington
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quote:
I saw a newspaper picture yesterday of a man holding up a sign that said "Don't bail out Wall Street, bail out people." And I thought to myself, that's essentially what they're trying to do.
This is the message that didn't get delivered to the people. Politicians did not do there work partly because there wasn't time to and partly because they didn't want to and maybe they don't really know.
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It does not have to be well with my circumstance to be well with my soul!
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RE: $700B Bailout is MY fault America - 9/30/2008 11:43:25 AM
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GroupW
Posts: 2911
Joined: 11/16/2007
From: Up in the hills of Colorado (very BIG hills...)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: GregandJenny
quote:
I saw a newspaper picture yesterday of a man holding up a sign that said "Don't bail out Wall Street, bail out people." And I thought to myself, that's essentially what they're trying to do.
This is the message that didn't get delivered to the people. Politicians did not do there work partly because there wasn't time to and partly because they didn't want to and maybe they don't really know.
I can agree except for the comment that there wasn't time. I read through that bill in about 45 minutes on Sunday evening. It just wasn't that hard, and I don't have congressional staffers at my beck and call to do research for me. With another 2 hours or so of reading, I think I could have had it all buttoned up with a bow on top. Seriously - that's what I was able to get done on this and it's not even my job!
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“For every problem, there is a solution that is simple, elegant and wrong.” -H.L. Mencken
"Most people would rather die than think; in fact, they do so." -Bertrand Russell
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RE: $700B Bailout is MY fault America - 9/30/2008 11:47:46 AM
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GregandJenny
Posts: 616
Joined: 2/16/2006
From: Near Seattle Washington
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do you know where i can find the bill?
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RE: $700B Bailout is MY fault America - 9/30/2008 11:56:57 AM
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GregandJenny
Posts: 616
Joined: 2/16/2006
From: Near Seattle Washington
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no go. I will look for it when I return from work.
G
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RE: $700B Bailout is MY fault America - 9/30/2008 12:00:21 PM
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stellaluna
Posts: 4227
Joined: 4/11/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: GregandJenny
quote:
I saw a newspaper picture yesterday of a man holding up a sign that said "Don't bail out Wall Street, bail out people." And I thought to myself, that's essentially what they're trying to do.
This is the message that didn't get delivered to the people. Politicians did not do there work partly because there wasn't time to and partly because they didn't want to and maybe they don't really know.
I agree. Financial illiteracy runs rampant through this country. However, I found it quite easy to educate myself on what was going on with the bailout and I think most people are just too lazy to do the same. I was explaining it yesterday to some co-workers, one of whom freely admitted she'd rather have someone tell her about it than read about it for herself.
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RE: $700B Bailout is MY fault America - 9/30/2008 12:34:59 PM
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GroupW
Posts: 2911
Joined: 11/16/2007
From: Up in the hills of Colorado (very BIG hills...)
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I don't know but look for the ears. Chances are he's somewhere in the vicinity.
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“For every problem, there is a solution that is simple, elegant and wrong.” -H.L. Mencken
"Most people would rather die than think; in fact, they do so." -Bertrand Russell
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RE: $700B Bailout is MY fault America - 10/1/2008 6:44:32 AM
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TheosCentric
Posts: 1904
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See this 10 minute YouTube video:
Burning Down The House: What Caused Our Economic Crisis?
No conspiracy theory, simply facts traced back to Carter's administration.
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God at the Center - Latest post - John 3:16 conference?
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RE: $700B Bailout is MY fault America - 10/2/2008 3:42:06 PM
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GroupW
Posts: 2911
Joined: 11/16/2007
From: Up in the hills of Colorado (very BIG hills...)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Giulia
quote:
You've got to be from somewhere in the Commonwealth, LOL.
How'd you guess? I am from the great country under the Southern Cross, five stars, that is  . It went whoosh straight over my head. Do you spell maths differently?
We Americans generally can't handle more than one type of math. We nearly always use the word in it's singular form.
_____________________________
“For every problem, there is a solution that is simple, elegant and wrong.” -H.L. Mencken
"Most people would rather die than think; in fact, they do so." -Bertrand Russell
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RE: $700B Bailout is MY fault America - 10/2/2008 5:44:40 PM
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GroupW
Posts: 2911
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From: Up in the hills of Colorado (very BIG hills...)
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The real carnage is what people in the general population rarely see. Credit default swaps are dropping at a very fast pace. Cash structured credits are falling even faster. The gap (or "basis") between cash bonds and their synthetic counterparts is just huge mongombous right now. The number of investment funds that are limiting withdrawals is growing daily.
Ugh. If the average person could see what goes across my Bloomberg screen every day there would be so much more support for this bill coming up for vote tomorrow.
_____________________________
“For every problem, there is a solution that is simple, elegant and wrong.” -H.L. Mencken
"Most people would rather die than think; in fact, they do so." -Bertrand Russell
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RE: $700B Bailout is MY fault America - 10/3/2008 4:07:46 AM
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gigigirrl
Posts: 83
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I watched that video TheosCentric posted. My best friend sent it to me Thursday morning. It is very interesting. I do believe there is a general fault of the consumers of mortgages and other credit as the op talked about. I think that my story highlights that fact.
We were shopping for a house 01/02. We went in to prequalify. We went to two mortgage co and we ended up ignoring them - at least we had our prequalification. Before we went in there I had done several hours of home work to determine exactly how much we could afford - looking at differences in taxes/ energy etc. across the type of house and locations we were thinking about. I went in with the figures and calculations on a spreadsheet. I had one figure as a maximum in mind. We went into a local mortgage co they said we could afford 30% more than I figured. We went to another co - a national one that has had lots of problems and has been in the news quite abit. They said we qualified for 49 percent more than I figured. We had very good scores and they said there were lots of ways we could finance. We said we did not want anything but a fixed rate- We did not want to gamble. We ended up going with a local branch of
http://www.nhsaonline.org/
They said that they only offered 30 year fixed. The interest rate was less then what the two mortgages cos had offered. It was a program. We took some classes to qualify. Most important they agreed with the amount I came up with. Which matched the different income to price calculators found on the internet.
The bad thing is that when were looking at houses and I saw ones online that were out of the range that I had figured. I was tempted to go back to those mortgage cos- I thought you know they had said we could afford it - maybe I was being to cautious. It truly scares me now that I even considered it.
I mean I think about the subsequent years and how some of the times we were able to pay down the principal - but there were times we could just afford our regular mtg payment. What would we have done with those 30% - 49% larger mtgs at that point - plus they would have been a weird hybrid of a interest rate, and when the rates increased - the payment would have increased. I mean did we need a more expensive house. No it was just a want.
My wondering thought is how many people went into the mtg co not knowing how much they could afford and just took the mtg cos. word for it... not taking the responsibility to know for ones self, wanting more. Falling prey to the greed of the mtg companies and the mandate of the govt.
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RE: $700B Bailout is MY fault America - 10/3/2008 10:32:02 AM
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Rick4Him
Posts: 99
Joined: 4/11/2005
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Who is to blame? All of us. We as Christians should know better, we are to owe nothing to anyone as Paul tells us in Romans 13:8. I must admit I owe a mortgage and a car loan and a credit card. I'll assume most in here are in the same situation as I.
Whatever happened to saving up to buy something? I feel this country has sold us a bill of goods (American Dream) that we must have, they tell us. Every individual that is in debt, just as the country is, can't complain.
Arnold Schwartzanegger (sp) said today that California needs a loan of $7 billion to stay afloat? WHAT? He said that they need cash available to supply businesses loans to do business as usual. That is so sad that most businesses rely upon borrowed money to survive. I don't know economics, but God's word is sure.
This is all wrong and it says so Biblically. Maybe we all need to suffer from our greed. Obviously most of us ignored scripture and followed our neighbors down the rosy path to owning a home and a new car. If you are truly born again we have a home reserved in Heaven and that is where we need to focus our attention, not on this world and its limited and temporary pleasures.
As Christians we need to ask God if this is where He wants us. Are we to value a new home and auto's to the point it damages our witness?
Our politicians tell us "It's the economy stupid!" WOW do we really believe that? I pray not, for we will either serve money or God. We need to set the example in this lost world and in my opinion we are failing, and I include myself.
Rick
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RE: $700B Bailout is MY fault America - 10/3/2008 10:15:04 PM
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edrummer
Posts: 11
Joined: 9/19/2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: gigigirrl
...They said we qualified for 49 percent more than I figured. We had very good scores and they said there were lots of ways we could finance...
Oh, man. We got similar offers. I laughed at them. And they were marketed as a Christian mortgage company. Just think of the house I could have NOT afforded if I borrowed as much as they said I could.
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RE: $700B Bailout is MY fault America - 10/4/2008 12:24:49 AM
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GroupW
Posts: 2911
Joined: 11/16/2007
From: Up in the hills of Colorado (very BIG hills...)
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The amount the bank tells you you qualify for is the maximum amount a person can afford if and only if:
He owns a fully paid for car that will never have a repair bill or need replacing. Every.
Is willing to eat Kraft Macaroni and Cheese every night. For 10 years.
Is willing to grow his own cotton to make clothes.
Knows how to weave sweaters from dryer lint.
Is skilled at self-appendectomies.
Believes its ok to tithe from one's estate proceeds.
Your 49% number is interesting. I've never been comfortable at more than 50% of what I qualified for.
_____________________________
“For every problem, there is a solution that is simple, elegant and wrong.” -H.L. Mencken
"Most people would rather die than think; in fact, they do so." -Bertrand Russell
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RE: $700B Bailout is MY fault America - 10/4/2008 1:07:53 AM
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stellaluna
Posts: 4227
Joined: 4/11/2005
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About five years ago I pretty well had my debt under control, most of it paid off, no car payment, etc. I put out some feelers on buying a house. I made about $24,000 at the time and was hoping to get something small in an up-and-coming neighborhood in the $40,000-45,000 range. (At the time, this was doable in this particular housing market.)
Well, I spoke to a realtor acquaintance who assured me that with my credit score and income, I could get a mortgage no problem. She suggested I talk to someone at Countrywide. Countrywide not only was willing to give me a mortgage, they were willing to give me a mortgage for $66,000. I said there was no way I could afford that and they did a long complicated worksheet to show me how I could afford it. I said they were crazy, I couldn't afford it. My calculations showed that a house for the lower amount would cost me about the same as what I was already paying in rent, plus a little more for taxes and their calculations would have had me spending a full two-thirds of my paycheck every month on a mortgage. That didn't even include utilities...or FOOD.
I didn't even know anything about mortgages or fixed rate or ARM or anything at the time, but I was smart enough to know that something didn't add up. I didn't buy a house.  And I've been glad everyday since.
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Who should be allowed to attend church?
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RE: $700B Bailout is MY fault America - 10/5/2008 12:56:45 PM
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JustaChristian
Posts: 49
Joined: 5/20/2005
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Amazing how the truth of this story gets so well buried.
There were serious problems with loans that were made that should not have been.
But that is not the truth about what caused these banks to go under! The banks would have lost money but survived. It was greed and manipulation in the form of bundling and repeadly selling and inflating the onership of the debt instruments that destroyed their value. It was the ponzi scheme where dishonest brokers made millions.
Nothing to see here folks. Just believe the ideology while the fatcats steal you money. Like Jesus said, it is always the poor that are to blame for our ills. Move along now and go enjoy your daily propaganda :)
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RE: $700B Bailout is MY fault America - 10/6/2008 10:35:27 AM
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GBrady
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Joined: 6/24/2007
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The only problem with your scenario is MY story.
I am 38. I earn just a little over $30K a year. My wife is a stay-at-home mom, both because we desire that our 3 year old has his mommy around and because after figuring cost of child care, purchasing/insuring/gasing/upkeep of a 2nd vehicle (we only have 1 car, a paid-for 2000 Pontiac Sunfire) and costs of her working (i.e. "office" clothes) there's a very minimal return that wasn't worth it for the tradeoff of having to put our son in childcare all the time. We still have about $80,000 in school loans that aren't paid off plus the mortgage. (We have NO credit card debt, having cashed out my wife's 401K to take care of that.)
We had formerly lived in an apartment in a declining neighborhood where it was not uncommon to see the police helicopter any given night overhead hunting for crooks. After one too many close calls (our neighbor's apartment was broken into and we think it was attempted at ours based on some marks around door, but we had a small dog at time that barks loudly at noises so we think she scared them off) and me believing part of my responsibility as a husband is to provide for my wife's safety, we found a home. The bank offered up to $130,000 for a fixed-rate government backed 1st time homebuyer loan with no money down (we simply did NOT have any money for a down payment), we only used $107,000 of it. We spend over 30% of my income on the mortgage payments (approx. 40% goes to it) which is far over the "acceptable" rate of spending for housing but the only alternative is for us to go back to a neighborhood where my wife continually fears for her and our son's safety.
We are behind on the house and have been making payments about $200 higher than usual to catch up (50% of income) which should be done after November. There will likely be nothing for my wife for Christmas..and little to nothing for my boy. This also means that I am letting "little" things go like some needed car maintenance (the brakes need work), basement stuff (we had a leak that left mold, I chipped all of that out and disposed of but we still have gaping holes in our basement ceiling) and the garage (the door is frozen stuck open...I haven't been able to fix it and can't set aside money to do that right now)
I'm not asking America to "pay for" my mortgage but it's hard for me to feel like I'm being deliberately irresponsible for getting my wife and kid out of harm's way.
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RE: $700B Bailout is MY fault America - 10/6/2008 10:39:52 AM
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GBrady
Posts: 18
Joined: 6/24/2007
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Also, we realized in getting that house that interest rates WERE impossibly low and we'd likely not see a better opportunity by waiting 5 years to try and save up a down payment...so we took the plunge.
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RE: $700B Bailout is MY fault America - 10/6/2008 10:41:39 AM
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GregandJenny
Posts: 616
Joined: 2/16/2006
From: Near Seattle Washington
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quote:
We had formerly lived in an apartment in a declining neighborhood where it was not uncommon to see the police helicopter any given night overhead hunting for crooks. After one too many close calls (our neighbor's apartment was broken into and we think it was attempted at ours based on some marks around door, but we had a small dog at time that barks loudly at noises so we think she scared them off) and me believing part of my responsibility as a husband is to provide for my wife's safety, we found a home. The bank offered up to $130,000 for a fixed-rate government backed 1st time homebuyer loan with no money down (we simply did NOT have any money for a down payment), we only used $107,000 of it. We spend over 30% of my inco
I think some would say that the irresponsibility is not moving, but was purchasing a house with no money down and it seems as if you have no savings. At this point if something was to happen to you unfortunately you and your family would be up a creek.
I belive you have very good intentions, there is just no back up plan if if fails. There are many Americans that got themselves in the exact same situation but they didn't have th means to catch up when they got behind and didn't have a back up plan or a savings account to go into when they didn't have their regular cash flow or needed money for an emergency.
G
_____________________________
It does not have to be well with my circumstance to be well with my soul!
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RE: $700B Bailout is MY fault America - 10/6/2008 10:48:43 AM
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GBrady
Posts: 18
Joined: 6/24/2007
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I also agree with Birdiecat. A large part of my support for Ron Paul stemmed from my desire to see us OFF the Federal Reserve System.
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