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Is the Libertarian party liberal or conservative?
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Total Votes : 32
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(last vote on : 10/12/2008 8:42:10 PM)
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RE: Is the Libertarian party liberal or conservative? - 9/30/2008 1:17:28 PM
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mcleod
Posts: 1066
Joined: 4/4/2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DaveW
Libertarians see no purpose for any kind of government at any level.
This my friend is a lie. I could say that every repubician is very much a goverment lover and I would be right.
For it was a dear Nixon who made the EPA, Froze everyone's wage's and prices(except old mcdonald who during that period raised a big mac to five cents.) Went illegally into one's office in which to try to better himself. This really floored me; he was a quaker and keep a war going for six more years.
Give me a break on how great the elephant has been. Just as bad as the party which has a bunch nuts(can't use the word for them) running it. That the old party say they are different from.
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RE: Is the Libertarian party liberal or conservative? - 9/30/2008 3:44:04 PM
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rgsoundguy
Posts: 401
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Pottstown, PA
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rlj
quote:
By your definition then, something has to be enforced. Legalizing drugs would free up law enforcement to actually protect you and not be busy busting somebody just for possession. As I stated above, I am with you on the pro-choice thing. And for the personal relationships, what is it doing to stop people from being gay? Nothing. Truth be told, and I fall into this category, many libertarians want the government out of marriage period. I made my vow to my wife and to God, but for some reason the State of New Jersey was involved. I don't need a government to recognize my marriage and I think marriage licenses should be done away with. Make the spiritual institution in was meant to be. And I know what people are going to say, it's for wills and what not. Well, show some responsibility and spell out the details of said marriage in a contract and everybody should have a will. That's just common sense and personal responsibility.
My opinion on all of those things is found here:
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.
The feds shouldn't tell me that my state has to allow dope smoking, abortion and lower the age of consent to 13 or whatever they want. Those are planks that are to be left up to the individual states. We don't have the freedom to automatically do those things we are supposed to however have the freedom to elect local officials and pass local laws without Washington telling us what we should and should not do. If you're state wishes to allow dope smoking, continue abortion and drop the age of consent to 13 or whatever that is fine. In my state we don't want legal dope, we have the same opinion on pro-life that Dubya has and we don't object to the age of consent being 16. The fed has no business changing that but does now and this wouldn't improve if Liberterians had their way.
Which is why they would seek to end the federal prohibition of said substances and allow the states enact and enforce their own drug laws. I mean in reality, we actually agree on the RLJ. If you are for states rights then you agree with the Libertarian Party.
_____________________________
Albert Einstein said that insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. That convinces me that our nation is insane because we continually elect republicans and democrats expecting change and get none.
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RE: Is the Libertarian party liberal or conservative? - 9/30/2008 3:50:37 PM
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rgsoundguy
Posts: 401
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Pottstown, PA
Status: offline
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And again, please let me reiterate. I am against abortion which is why I have not completely alligned myself with the Libertarian Party. Abortion is a civil liberties issue, the civil liberties of the baby not the mother. The LP has this one seriously wrong.
_____________________________
Albert Einstein said that insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. That convinces me that our nation is insane because we continually elect republicans and democrats expecting change and get none.
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RE: Is the Libertarian party liberal or conservative? - 9/30/2008 3:57:09 PM
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rgsoundguy
Posts: 401
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Pottstown, PA
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
Says those who want to legalize drugs and have no issue with the 3500 murdered unborn children daily... And for the most part the party doesn't reject the fringe...
If you are a student of economics, you should know that the prohibition of drugs has not only made the drug problem worse than it should be, but it has increased almost every other crime against innocent people. If they were legalized, prices would be lower and addicts could afford to support their habit without resorting to crimes such as theft and murder just to get money for their fix. And again, I AGREE WITH YOU ON THE ABORTION ISSUE!
_____________________________
Albert Einstein said that insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. That convinces me that our nation is insane because we continually elect republicans and democrats expecting change and get none.
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RE: Is the Libertarian party liberal or conservative? - 9/30/2008 4:06:39 PM
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rgsoundguy
Posts: 401
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Pottstown, PA
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mcleod
I could say that every repubician is very much a goverment lover and I would be right.
For it was a dear Nixon who made the EPA, Froze everyone's wage's and prices(except old mcdonald who during that period raised a big mac to five cents.) Went illegally into one's office in which to try to better himself. This really floored me; he was a quaker and keep a war going for six more years.
Give me a break on how great the elephant has been. Just as bad as the party which has a bunch nuts(can't use the word for them) running it. That the old party say they are different from.
Very well said. Republicans and Democrats have a lot more in common than they realize, and it's very scary to me. This is why I can not bring myself to cast a vote for most Republicans anymore. Democrats never had a shot with me anyway!
_____________________________
Albert Einstein said that insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. That convinces me that our nation is insane because we continually elect republicans and democrats expecting change and get none.
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RE: Is the Libertarian party liberal or conservative? - 9/30/2008 5:34:36 PM
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rlj
Posts: 2138
Joined: 4/14/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
Which is why they would seek to end the federal prohibition of said substances and allow the states enact and enforce their own drug laws. I mean in reality, we actually agree on the RLJ. If you are for states rights then you agree with the Libertarian Party.
The opinion I have always gotten from Liberterians was that the federal government would decide for example that all drug use would be legal as opposed to just repealing the federal laws to leave the states to fill the void.
_____________________________
-Roger
This is who I'm voting for. He is from the same party I voted for last time. This is consistent with my belief in the failure of the two party system and my disgust with it.
http://www.baldwin08.com/#
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RE: Is the Libertarian party liberal or conservative? - 9/30/2008 10:34:04 PM
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rgsoundguy
Posts: 401
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Pottstown, PA
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rlj
quote:
Which is why they would seek to end the federal prohibition of said substances and allow the states enact and enforce their own drug laws. I mean in reality, we actually agree on the RLJ. If you are for states rights then you agree with the Libertarian Party.
The opinion I have always gotten from Liberterians was that the federal government would decide for example that all drug use would be legal as opposed to just repealing the federal laws to leave the states to fill the void.
The libertarian philosophy is that prohibition is not the way to deal with a drug problem, but ultimately, the decisions on such matters should be left up to the states and even more so the local governments.
_____________________________
Albert Einstein said that insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. That convinces me that our nation is insane because we continually elect republicans and democrats expecting change and get none.
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RE: Is the Libertarian party liberal or conservative? - 9/30/2008 10:57:41 PM
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mapachito13
Posts: 2498
Joined: 10/1/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rgsoundguy
If you are a student of economics, you should know that the prohibition of drugs has not only made the drug problem worse than it should be, but it has increased almost every other crime against innocent people. If they were legalized, prices would be lower and addicts could afford to support their habit without resorting to crimes such as theft and murder just to get money for their fix.
You ever gone to Amsterdam? You can go to the park and see all the heroin addicts getting their legal fix in public and having the rest deal with the consequences. How is a heroin addict going to be able to keep a job to support a fix even at the legal, lower prices.
Forgive the pun but that's a crack pipe dream!
_____________________________
Peace Sells....But Who's Buying!
"I would argue that the most serious threat to the United States is not someone hiding in a cave in Pakistan or Afghanistan, but our own fiscal irresponsibility."-David Walker, fmr comptroller general of the US
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RE: Is the Libertarian party liberal or conservative? - 9/30/2008 11:22:27 PM
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rgsoundguy
Posts: 401
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Pottstown, PA
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mapachito13
quote:
ORIGINAL: rgsoundguy
If you are a student of economics, you should know that the prohibition of drugs has not only made the drug problem worse than it should be, but it has increased almost every other crime against innocent people. If they were legalized, prices would be lower and addicts could afford to support their habit without resorting to crimes such as theft and murder just to get money for their fix.
You ever gone to Amsterdam? You can go to the park and see all the heroin addicts getting their legal fix in public and having the rest deal with the consequences. How is a heroin addict going to be able to keep a job to support a fix even at the legal, lower prices.
Forgive the pun but that's a crack pipe dream!
You see, the problem with Amsterdam is that they basically opened it up to the drug dealers. That's not the way to do it. You need to treat it like alcohol. Even the late great William F Buckley was on board with this.
_____________________________
Albert Einstein said that insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. That convinces me that our nation is insane because we continually elect republicans and democrats expecting change and get none.
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RE: Is the Libertarian party liberal or conservative? - 10/1/2008 8:24:53 AM
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mapachito13
Posts: 2498
Joined: 10/1/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rgsoundguy
quote:
ORIGINAL: mapachito13
quote:
ORIGINAL: rgsoundguy
If you are a student of economics, you should know that the prohibition of drugs has not only made the drug problem worse than it should be, but it has increased almost every other crime against innocent people. If they were legalized, prices would be lower and addicts could afford to support their habit without resorting to crimes such as theft and murder just to get money for their fix.
You ever gone to Amsterdam? You can go to the park and see all the heroin addicts getting their legal fix in public and having the rest deal with the consequences. How is a heroin addict going to be able to keep a job to support a fix even at the legal, lower prices.
Forgive the pun but that's a crack pipe dream!
You see, the problem with Amsterdam is that they basically opened it up to the drug dealers. That's not the way to do it. You need to treat it like alcohol. Even the late great William F Buckley was on board with this.
Who do you think are going to apply for the new drug dealers business licenses and go legit? Caring people? Or will the same drug dealers just get their papers and they are back in business?
I grew up in a neighborhood where drugs were everywhere and saw the effects of that. I don't think drugs' effects will become tolerable once we make it legal!
_____________________________
Peace Sells....But Who's Buying!
"I would argue that the most serious threat to the United States is not someone hiding in a cave in Pakistan or Afghanistan, but our own fiscal irresponsibility."-David Walker, fmr comptroller general of the US
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RE: Is the Libertarian party liberal or conservative? - 10/1/2008 10:04:09 AM
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MrFribbles
Posts: 1629
Joined: 1/29/2007
From: Hawaii, but I've moved around since then
Status: offline
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I am of the religious opinion that it is the Church's job to create moral change in the world, not the governments. We are the ones who should be showing the world that abortion is wrong, not Uncle Sam. The government banning abortion flat out would be like the parent who says "No, you cannot do this," and then doesn't tell the child the "why" behind the prohibition. Will the child do that thing? Maybe not, but it's more likely that they'll just sneak around their parents and do it anyway. It is our role to come alongside those who believe abortion is OK and show them, with love, that it is not. In doing so, we will be like the parent who takes a child, sits them down, and lovingly tells them that they aren't allowed to do something because it will hurt them in the long run.
The government's role is to serve the people, not legislate morality. That is why I am a libertarian.
_____________________________
You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
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RE: Is the Libertarian party liberal or conservative? - 10/1/2008 11:12:54 AM
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mapachito13
Posts: 2498
Joined: 10/1/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MrFribbles
The government's role is to serve the people, not legislate morality. That is why I am a libertarian.
So anything goes as long as it doesn't infinge on anyones else's right to do anything?
Age of consent laws out the window. Sexual taboos cannot be legislated against. Porn on regular TV. (Freedom of speech unhindered. Don't like it change the channel!) It's legal to be a drug addict. Have you really thought through all the ramifications of not allowing the government to legislate "morality" which I would call civil society.
If we believe the government's authority is derived from God (Romans 13) then the government better act like that in some capacity.
The Articles of Confederation were thrown out in favor of our current Republican federal form of government because they saw early on that that form of government doesn't work!
_____________________________
Peace Sells....But Who's Buying!
"I would argue that the most serious threat to the United States is not someone hiding in a cave in Pakistan or Afghanistan, but our own fiscal irresponsibility."-David Walker, fmr comptroller general of the US
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RE: Is the Libertarian party liberal or conservative? - 10/1/2008 3:45:54 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5392
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MrFribbles
I am of the religious opinion that it is the Church's job to create moral change in the world, not the governments. We are the ones who should be showing the world that abortion is wrong, not Uncle Sam. The government banning abortion flat out would be like the parent who says "No, you cannot do this," and then doesn't tell the child the "why" behind the prohibition. Will the child do that thing? Maybe not, but it's more likely that they'll just sneak around their parents and do it anyway. It is our role to come alongside those who believe abortion is OK and show them, with love, that it is not. In doing so, we will be like the parent who takes a child, sits them down, and lovingly tells them that they aren't allowed to do something because it will hurt them in the long run.
The government's role is to serve the people, not legislate morality. That is why I am a libertarian.
The civil government's role is to be God minister of wrath for those who do evil... It's ordained by God for the sake of order so it's first responsibility is to serve God, not the people...
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 29:12 If a ruler hearken to lies, all his servants are wicked.
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RE: Is the Libertarian party liberal or conservative? - 10/1/2008 3:53:03 PM
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rgsoundguy
Posts: 401
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Pottstown, PA
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
The civil government's role is to be God minister of wrath for those who do evil... It's ordained by God for the sake of order so it's first responsibility is to serve God, not the people...
If we lived in a true Theocracy perhaps, but we don't. So now we as The Church need to do God's work and as per the Great Commission. The charge was to make disciples, not elect people to enact legislation to aid in the making of disciples. Just like we are supposed to give to those in need, not pay taxes so the government will do it for us. It goes both way, you know?
_____________________________
Albert Einstein said that insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. That convinces me that our nation is insane because we continually elect republicans and democrats expecting change and get none.
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RE: Is the Libertarian party liberal or conservative? - 10/1/2008 4:17:14 PM
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rgsoundguy
Posts: 401
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Pottstown, PA
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mapachito13
Who do you think are going to apply for the new drug dealers business licenses and go legit? Caring people? Or will the same drug dealers just get their papers and they are back in business?
I grew up in a neighborhood where drugs were everywhere and saw the effects of that. I don't think drugs' effects will become tolerable once we make it legal!
Actually, no. I believe that drug dealers should remain locked up. Just because a law is removed from the books does not suddenly decriminalize the criminal. The drug dealers who didn't get caught and go legit are suddenly subject to L & I. Libertarians are not against checks and balances.
I can see that you are emotionally attached to this issue and I respect that, but you have to understand, it was prohibition that created the problem. It created a market for organized crime. It's similar to the people who want to completely ban guns. It's an emotional thing and the gut reaction is ban them, but the problem with that is it will create a black market for organized crime, and in the end, the only people with the guns will be the criminals.
_____________________________
Albert Einstein said that insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. That convinces me that our nation is insane because we continually elect republicans and democrats expecting change and get none.
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RE: Is the Libertarian party liberal or conservative? - 10/1/2008 4:31:39 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5392
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rgsoundguy
If we lived in a true Theocracy perhaps, but we don't.
Romans 13 doesn't speak of theocracy... It speaks to the purpose of the civil government, the purpose God ordained for it...
quote:
So now we as The Church need to do God's work and as per the Great Commission. The charge was to make disciples, not elect people to enact legislation to aid in the making of disciples.
So... We have a government that sanction unlawfulness, with Christians supporting such a thing and that is going to bring about making disciples? I see a mixed message... Cannot support unlawfulness and in the next breath speak of doing God's work... Electing people and supporting laws that are on conflict with God's law is hypocrisy and serving two masters...
quote:
Just like we are supposed to give to those in need, not pay taxes so the government will do it for us. It goes both way, you know?
One doesn't have to be a Libertarian to be against the government usurping the role of the church regarding the poor...
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 29:12 If a ruler hearken to lies, all his servants are wicked.
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RE: Is the Libertarian party liberal or conservative? - 10/1/2008 4:39:14 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5392
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rgsoundguy
I can see that you are emotionally attached to this issue and I respect that, but you have to understand, it was prohibition that created the problem. It created a market for organized crime. It's similar to the people who want to completely ban guns. It's an emotional thing and the gut reaction is ban them, but the problem with that is it will create a black market for organized crime, and in the end, the only people with the guns will be the criminals.
Guns serve a useful purpose... What does heroin serve other than to destroy?
Go to church on Sunday, sell heroin and cocaine on Monday and all is well? And pat one's self on the back because now the criminal element is removed and the world is a better place?
I don't know... Something is missing here...
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 29:12 If a ruler hearken to lies, all his servants are wicked.
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RE: Is the Libertarian party liberal or conservative? - 10/1/2008 5:01:21 PM
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rgsoundguy
Posts: 401
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Pottstown, PA
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
Romans 13 doesn't speak of theocracy... It speaks to the purpose of the civil government, the purpose God ordained for it...
I had to reread Romans 13 as a refresher. I do not see instructions on who to vote for. It mainly says that those who are in power, are there because God ordains it. So whether baby killer Obama or St. John McCain is elected, they are ordained by God in that position, per Romans 13. So if even one of the lunatic fringe of the Libertarian Party somehow became president banned all laws, even he or she would be ordained by God.
quote:
So... We have a government that sanction unlawfulness, with Christians supporting such a thing and that is going to bring about making disciples? I see a mixed message... Cannot support unlawfulness and in the next breath speak of doing God's work... Electing people and supporting laws that are on conflict with God's law is hypocrisy and serving two masters...
First of all, the belief that something should be legal does not in turn mean one condones or promotes said act. I support the legalization of drugs and prostitution, if it were to happen, you would not find me snorting cocain off a hookers belly. I would continue to educate people about the dangers of such thngs, much like smoking or excessive drinking. Ultimately the only thing that will put an end to these things is the Saving Grace of Jesus Christ, not prohibition by the Government.
quote:
One doesn't have to be a Libertarian to be against the government usurping the role of the church regarding the poor...
I was merely comparing how it seems that many in the church expect the government spread their morals, but not do their giving for them. It is the role of the church to give and to teach morals.
_____________________________
Albert Einstein said that insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. That convinces me that our nation is insane because we continually elect republicans and democrats expecting change and get none.
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RE: Is the Libertarian party liberal or conservative? - 10/1/2008 6:02:49 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5392
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rgsoundguy
I had to reread Romans 13 as a refresher.
So your talk of theocracy is no more?
quote:
I do not see instructions on who to vote for.
Other than yourself who mentioned Romans 13 and whom one should vote for?
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It mainly says that those who are in power, are there because God ordains it. So whether baby killer Obama or St. John McCain is elected, they are ordained by God in that position, per Romans 13. So if even one of the lunatic fringe of the Libertarian Party somehow became president banned all laws, even he or she would be ordained by God.
Romans clearly states that the civil government is to be His minister of wrath for those who do evil... Last I checked drugs and hookers were tied to evilness.. You believe the government could sanction evil, with the support of Christians and with God's blessing... What is stated in Romans 13 clearly spells out the civil government has a purpose, not simply God placing whomever into power...
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First of all, the belief that something should be legal does not in turn mean one condones or promotes said act.
How not? How does one wash their hands of it?
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I support the legalization of drugs and prostitution, if it were to happen, you would not find me snorting cocain off a hookers belly.
Yet I take it you'd tell a brother he shouldn't go to hooker and snort coke off her belly? You don't believe that's a mixed message?
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I would continue to educate people about the dangers of such thngs, much like smoking or excessive drinking. Ultimately the only thing that will put an end to these things is the Saving Grace of Jesus Christ, not prohibition by the Government.
Ultimately that is answer for all crimes/sins, but not a very good reason to suspend the law...
quote:
I was merely comparing how it seems that many in the church expect the government spread their morals, but not do their giving for them. It is the role of the church to give and to teach morals.
The role of civil government to keep order, that's the reason God ordained them... That's it role... It wasn't ordained by God to sanction drug use and prostitution with the consent of the Body of Christ...
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 29:12 If a ruler hearken to lies, all his servants are wicked.
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RE: Is the Libertarian party liberal or conservative? - 10/1/2008 11:51:17 PM
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MrFribbles
Posts: 1629
Joined: 1/29/2007
From: Hawaii, but I've moved around since then
Status: offline
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quote:
So anything goes as long as it doesn't infinge on anyones else's right to do anything?
That depends on what the will of the people is. If the people vote to make something illegal, then no, that issue does not go. I don't know of any states where there is a large constituent for lowering the age of consent, allowing porn on TV, etc.
This is part of the governments service of the people. The people want order, by and large. However, the form that order takes should be left in their hands, through a democratic system. These decisions should, by and large, be made on a state level. I'm all for making abortion illegal, of course, but it should be the decision of the individual states, not a mandate from the federal government.
_____________________________
You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
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RE: Is the Libertarian party liberal or conservative? - 10/1/2008 11:55:10 PM
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MrFribbles
Posts: 1629
Joined: 1/29/2007
From: Hawaii, but I've moved around since then
Status: offline
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quote:
It wasn't ordained by God to sanction drug use and prostitution with the consent of the Body of Christ...
Was it ordained by God to fight unjust wars, promote socialistic economics, abuse personal liberties, ban a private business owner's right to allow smoking, ban a private business' right to use certain ingredients, etc.?
_____________________________
You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
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RE: Is the Libertarian party liberal or conservative? - 10/2/2008 12:07:12 AM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5392
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
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