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RE: Pastor/Brother getting Divorce - 10/16/2008 3:48:25 PM
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delete123
Posts: 988
Joined: 6/1/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Exsulence
What was said by the op that makes you think the pastor's wife was a "whiner" or was constantly "dripping"???
The "whiner" was said to be complaining about all the time he gives to the church -- instead of to her. Of course. Can't you just hear her? Why, I can hear that woman nagging him for all his many duties, from here. Not helping him with them. No. Just complaining about all the people he has vowed to serve.
I guess the better description for her would have been "pity-pouter."
Incidentally, I have a neighbor whose rebellious, violent, and abusive teenage daughter once managed to get the police to turn up at his house and throw HIM into handcuffs for, quote, "pushing her around." (He'd grabbed her by her shoulders and forced her back against a wall, trying to get control of her, once.) This is the same girl who was once found being kicked out of her boyfriend's car, as she tried scrambling back in, screaming "No. Please don't leave me!"
I have a real hard time, these days, believing there is genuine "abuse," under MOST circumstances -- unless little kids are involved, who aren't so shrewd as to make this **** up, knowing the police overwhelmingly err on the side of the "victim."
P.S. I'm happy to report that the teenage girl and her father have mended their relationship completely, now that he's been made by her a grandfather. Just after graduating highschool, she got pregnant and is raising a baby, now, with another man (an employee of the girl's father). Gramps is asked often to look after the youngster, of whom he is very, very proud. So much for "physical abuse" charges, eh?
You are so way out of line, you have no idea what you are talking about.
You can try to instill all the doubt you want, but you my friend have issues. You speak of things you have no awares of and just in your simple ASSumptions!
Pulease only post on topics you have experienced. And I am totally thankful that I do not know you personally.
I'm sorry folks if I seem out there, but this is ridiculeous, trying to downsize a serious issue with little diddies or trying to wash it under someone else's dirty laundry as it's Not that Bad and may not be 'Real!'
When in fact speaking from something they have never experienced.
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RE: Pastor/Brother getting Divorce - 10/27/2008 11:33:17 AM
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ImSassy
Posts: 17
Joined: 9/22/2008
Status: offline
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Well, it has been close to 2 months and still I haven't talked with my parents. Should I continue on as things are or is there anything that I should do?
It does bother me tremendously but I don't feel that anything will be better by talking to them. The only thing that I feel would make things better is if I would turn against my SIL and stand with my brother and I'm not going to do that.
Just wondering what others think!
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RE: Pastor/Brother getting Divorce - 10/27/2008 11:52:55 AM
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DeeAnnBailey
Posts: 2625
Joined: 3/23/2006
From: SC
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ImSassy
Well, it has been close to 2 months and still I haven't talked with my parents. Should I continue on as things are or is there anything that I should do?
It does bother me tremendously but I don't feel that anything will be better by talking to them. The only thing that I feel would make things better is if I would turn against my SIL and stand with my brother and I'm not going to do that.
Just wondering what others think!
This cannot be an easy time for you. I will continue to pray that God will give you wisdom and strength during this time. I admire you for knowing what is right and standing for it. Often the message Jesus had was unwanted by the religious because it would destory their 'lives as they knew them'. They had rather hang on to that and realize that Jesus gave true live.
Usually in any divorce there are 3 sides, the husband's, the wife's and the truth that contains part of each side. But there is also usually one side that has transgressed more than the other. In honesty I'm sure both of them have done things that injured their marriage, but a controlling and abusive spirit can do more harm in a few minutes than a life time of little missteps.
I pray that your parents realize not only do they have 2 children, they have grandchildren that need them to respect their mother even if they can't love her. Those children are the true issue in my heart, they are not only losing their dad, they are losing a large portion of the family. They need love, reassurance and compassion, not to be pulled down the middle.
I'm reminded of the story in the old testament where the 2 women came each claiming the child as their own. The TRUE mother loved enough to give up the child to save it. Your parents need to realize that loving someone doesn't always mean agreeing they are right. If you truly love you can recognize their faults and love them anyway. But you don't support their wrong doing just because you love them.
_____________________________
D. Ann Bailey
My Blog Dee's Delights and Delusions
<<<<<<The love of my life - precious Erin!
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RE: Pastor/Brother getting Divorce - 10/27/2008 11:59:17 AM
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laura...
Posts: 2928
Joined: 3/1/2005
From: NE Ohio
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ImSassy
Well, it has been close to 2 months and still I haven't talked with my parents. Should I continue on as things are or is there anything that I should do?
It does bother me tremendously but I don't feel that anything will be better by talking to them. The only thing that I feel would make things better is if I would turn against my SIL and stand with my brother and I'm not going to do that.
Just wondering what others think!
I would try to communicate with them with letters and cards. Send newsy letters and holiday/birthday cards. Don't mention the divorce or the dispute. Just keep the letters light and filled with your family's news. This will tell them that you are always open to reconcilliation without forcing them to choose.
_____________________________
This is what the Lord says: “Stop at the crossroads and look around. Ask for the old, godly way, and walk in it. Travel its path, and you will find rest for your souls. But you reply, ‘No, that’s not the road we want!’ Jer 6:16
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RE: Pastor/Brother getting Divorce - 1/6/2009 1:04:32 AM
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deermousie
Posts: 1941
Joined: 9/26/2007
Status: online
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That thud you just heard was my jaw hitting the floor in astonishment.
Just to let you know, ImSassy, you are not crazy. Your family of origin has some serious screws loose and some violations of God's ways.
quote:
ORIGINAL: ImSassy
They did not contact my children either, only to send word through my niece that if they wanted their Christmas present from my parents, they would have too come to their house to get it.
These people have torn up their grandparent and uncle cards. What kind of person gets presents for people they refuse to talk to? That's a contradiction. I'd be concerned what they get the kids (poison ivy plants?) and would not let this bribe hook your children into this mess. Your inlaws are using gifts to get you to go along with their twisted ideas of family: you have to okay their perverted view of family AND church authority and they are using presents to make you twist your view of family and church authority. They are saying "You can have the presents when you admit you are dirt, worthless, and acknowledge we are right in treating you this way." They are trying to force you to go along with their sick theology. This isn't them being nice to you, but is a power play, I suspect.
quote:
My Dad did call to tell me around the first of December that I owed them for EVERYTHING THEY HAD DONE FOR ME IN THE LAST 20 YEARS and would be letting a judge decide what that amount would be.
I don't think that even with our sometimes-crazy court system this could be made to stick. And whatever happened to "you don't sue Christians"? 1 Cor. 6:1 and following, which says judge among the church and don't go to an unbelieving judge for redress of problems. I think you have cause to go over your FIL's head (if there is anyone over him - maybe he's flying without accountability because he merely assumed authority in the church).
That said, what kind of sicko wants to be repaid for raising a kid? It's a debt he paid for his own raising, and God commands it as love because God gave the children to the parents to be raised.
I wonder if your FIL realizes it's you who will probably take care of him in his old age? But he's looking for an ice floe for you.
A legal threat is a type of judicial terrorism: do what I want or I will sue you and hurt you badly. This is toxic. Or maybe he just means: I will hurt you. I want to hurt you, and you can't stop me.
This is not parental love, and it's not legitimate spiritual authority. These people are sick, sick, sick. Keep your kids far away from them.
quote:
A few people have contacted me from the church, one being a board member. They have many unanswered questions and are very confused. I haven't tried to pull them in either direction. I only state my position was to resign so as not to be put in the middle. They knew the life of my SIL and have resolved to the fact that she had to have a very good reason to break up her home or she wouldn't have done so. I have since heard that my brother is on a smear campaign toward me, bringing up things that happened over 25 years ago to discredit my life.
Remember the story of Eli the priest, who didn't stop his sons from using their clout in the temple to cheat and defraud the people? God killed all three of them. 1 Samuel 1 ff. This is serious business.
But I wouldn't believe this until you know for sure that this is what is actually going on. One person might not get the story straight, and you don't want to base what you do on someothing that might not be true. If it is true, then your brother is guilty of gossip, defaming your character, and using his religious position for personal gain.
quote:
Still don't know how to pray or what to do about any of this!!!
Your inlaws and brother, if this is all true (and I don't doubt your word), have serious spiritual problems. This is evil. This is destructive. This is unloving, and this is using God's authority (both family and church) to commit sin against family and believers.
I would get a job somewhere else, sell the house and move my kids as far away from this as I could. If the inlaws ask for forgiveness, grant it, but don't give them your new address: sin this deep didn't start overnight but has been incubating from a smaller sin long ago, and the sinful lifestyle won't disappear fast, either.
I'm sorry, ImSassy, that you have to deal with all this disturbing mess. The Lord protect you and rebuke your inlaws. Your inlaws have no business in an authority position and church discipline (Matt. 18) looks appropriate here: tell them their sin (which means you need to understand what Scripture says about this; get some pastoral help elsewhere and use the concordance in my sig line) and call on them to repent. If they don't, go back to them with 2-3 witnesses and call on them to repent their sin. If they refuse, get their authority involved and tell them what is going on.
Be strong in the Lord and handle this His way. Expect Him to put His hand in and guide you and make things happen. God bless you guys, and deal with this ugly nest of sin and clean it up, to His glory. I am praying for you and your husband and all family members tonight.
_____________________________
Want to know where a certain word or phrase in the Bible is found? www.biblegateway.com Yay!
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RE: Pastor/Brother getting Divorce - 1/6/2009 6:57:23 AM
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csl7037
Posts: 2080
Joined: 3/24/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ImSassy
My Dad did call to tell me around the first of December that I owed them for EVERYTHING THEY HAD DONE FOR ME IN THE LAST 20 YEARS and would be letting a judge decide what that amount would be.
I'd love to hear what a judge has to say about that!
It sounds like your brother and parents are on a sinking ship.
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RE: Pastor/Brother getting Divorce - 1/6/2009 7:35:19 AM
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SurpassingPeace
Posts: 156
Joined: 11/21/2007
Status: offline
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Sassy, I am so sorry to hear you are having to go through this. Parents shouldn't put their children through this. It breaks my heart. My husband broke with his parents for quite some time and now it is strained politeness. They did not really speak for two years. He was open to reconciliation but would not back down from his position. (He was married and his mother no longer had a say, or rather the majority say in his life.) Unfortunately, they really held on to their anger. We both prayed about it often. The reason I tell you this is because there is nothing else you can do. Sometimes you have to walk away. If both parties are not interested in honest reconciliation then it cannot happen.
They do the holding gifts things as a hostage as well. Now they will email my daughter (who is 14months old) through my husbands account with a passive aggressive email about how they have gifts for her and she can have them if they can ever see her. I never realized families acted like his or yours until I experienced it first hand.
I am sorry you have to go through this. I am sorry you have to bear this pain. I am really sorry your children have to live through the nasty side of their grandparents.
Karen
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RE: Pastor/Brother getting Divorce - 1/6/2009 12:56:33 PM
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ImSassy
Posts: 17
Joined: 9/22/2008
Status: offline
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First of all, sorry that last post was so big! My mistake.
I am in such shock. I would have never dreamed this would be happening in my family. But honestly, we have lived with such secrets my entire life. You didn't talk about anything! To this day (and I'm almost 50) I couldn't tell you one thing that my Mom ever did or went through growing up. Everything is always clouded in such secrecy. We have heard different rumors about my parents marriage, whether she was pregnant when they got married, supposedly went out of state to be married, my Dad had been married before, etc. And we were never allowed to ask questions. To this day, I couldn't tell you (or my children) anything concerning their past. And all my life, anything that has happened with my brother has always been "swept" under the carpet.
So much has been said and "exposed" through all of this now that I don't know how it will ever be resolved or if it even can be. I didn't try to bring my brother down, I only tried to leave the church so as not to be put in a place of choosing sides. I would have never dreamed of this!
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RE: Pastor/Brother getting Divorce - 1/6/2009 5:04:40 PM
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vicbhe
Posts: 91
Joined: 4/24/2005
From: Arkansas
Status: offline
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I just came across this thread today and my heart sank for you and your SIL. I’ve seen so much of this, have been through it as a church member several times and watched as families and churches were destroyed by the ‘secret lives’ of members and/or leaders. When we try to hide our sin God has a way of uncovering it for all to see, when we confess our sin and deal with it before God, he has a way of covering our sin for us.
I have seen ‘family secrets’ destroy so many lives. ‘Family secrets’ are very dark and devastating, especially when we try to keep them hidden and covered up, pretending they never happened. Usually it is the children who all of their lives carry the weight of these secrets, the truth below the surface like the lava beneath a volcano building pressure until it finally explodes. I think You are very wise to get out of the way. You did not bring your brother down, there is an old saying “give a man enough rope and he will hang himself”.
quote:
Your mom is probably beside herself (hence the remark that if your brother has a heart attack ect ect) because she can't pretend anymore nor can she stop whats happening to your brother.
I agree with Sadey
_____________________________
“You cannot improve your righteousness by tearing down the righteousness of others”. W.O. Vaught
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RE: Pastor/Brother getting Divorce - 1/6/2009 11:08:19 PM
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Phoenix515
Posts: 1
Joined: 1/6/2009
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As a woman who was in a 12 year mental, emotional, spiritual and physically abusive marriage for 12 years I want to encourage you that by
giving refuge to your sister in law and her children that you extended Christ's hands to her. It is a difficult thing to endure abuse and often in Christian circles there is no safe place to go and thus the cycle is enabled. It is a death, not only for you but for your brother, his wife, and their kids as well. The best advice I can offer in your situation is to saturate it in prayer-not just for your own sake but for the sake of all involved, including the church members.
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RE: Pastor/Brother getting Divorce - 1/7/2009 8:25:26 AM
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DeeAnnBailey
Posts: 2625
Joined: 3/23/2006
From: SC
Status: online
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Sassy, let me add my encouragement to those above for the stand you have taken. It could not be easy and I know that you are suffering through much right now. I also grew up in a family of secrets and many of those secrets caused problems in my life as I raised my daughter. My daughter is now a divorced single mom and we are both in therapy trying to work through the damage the past has done.
God is my refuge and my strength but I finally realized that did not mean I couldn't seek other help as well. God gave knowledge and wisdom to those that can help us work through problems and often an outside person can see thinks clearly that we don't understand at all.
_____________________________
D. Ann Bailey
My Blog Dee's Delights and Delusions
<<<<<<The love of my life - precious Erin!
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RE: Pastor/Brother getting Divorce - 1/7/2009 9:07:01 AM
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poohgirl222
Posts: 27
Joined: 10/4/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ImSassy
First of all, sorry that last post was so big! My mistake.
I am in such shock. I would have never dreamed this would be happening in my family. But honestly, we have lived with such secrets my entire life. You didn't talk about anything! To this day (and I'm almost 50) I couldn't tell you one thing that my Mom ever did or went through growing up. Everything is always clouded in such secrecy. We have heard different rumors about my parents marriage, whether she was pregnant when they got married, supposedly went out of state to be married, my Dad had been married before, etc. And we were never allowed to ask questions. To this day, I couldn't tell you (or my children) anything concerning their past. And all my life, anything that has happened with my brother has always been "swept" under the carpet.
So much has been said and "exposed" through all of this now that I don't know how it will ever be resolved or if it even can be. I didn't try to bring my brother down, I only tried to leave the church so as not to be put in a place of choosing sides. I would have never dreamed of this!
I'm really sorry to see what are experiencing with your family, but I think you are doing the right thing by your actions. It's always hard to stand up to difficulty and even more so when it's within your own family. It's really ashame the way they are attacking you and I say keep praying for yourself and seeking the Lord. The Lord knows the truth and he will give you the strength you need to walk in truth each day. Pray for your brother, your parents and your sil too. Be encourgaged Sassy and know that God walks beside you every step of the way.
1 Peter 5:6-11
Therefore humble yourselves under the mighty hand of God, that He may exalt you in due time, casting all your care upon Him, for He cares for you.
Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour. Resist him, steadfast in the faith, knowing that the same sufferings are experienced by your brotherhood in the world. But may the God of all grace, who called us to His eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after you have suffered a while, perfect, establish, strengthen, and settle you. To Him be the glory and the dominion forever and ever. Amen
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RE: Pastor/Brother getting Divorce - 1/9/2009 9:56:53 PM
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lightshineon
Posts: 3467
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: online
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I agree, good post.
quote:
ORIGINAL: the_mom
I'm sorry such a bad thing has happened to your family. However, it is not in your power to make everything right again. You can only do what you think is right under the circumstances. I agree with your decision to protect the innocent wife and children of an abuser. I also think you are correct in leaving a church that has an unrepentant abuser as its pastor, although I understand that was not your reason for leaving. Domestic violence is a crime, and although I know pastors can never be perfect, I do believe they should refrain from openly criminal activity.
These, of course, are the ethical and intellectual considerations, and they probably don't help the heartbreak of being separated like this from your family. Maybe the passage of time will help in reconciliation, at least for you and your parents. Certainly, your brother should seek professional help so that he might continue a relationship with his kids.
_____________________________
Remember, whenever you have pearls, there are always plenty of pigs nearby who would be glad to step on them.
F.T., 2007
Be sure you vote for those, whose views you want your children to emulate.
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