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RE: Appropriate consequences - 9/15/2008 6:57:52 PM
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manda59
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quote:
ORIGINAL: zoebob
I would say that this is not necessarily a minor offence: deliberately doing something you were just told not to do.
I guess we will have to just agree to disagree on this. To me, "major" offences were deliberately hurting someone, deliberately breaking something, doing something dangerous, and telling lies.
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doinkdom, October 2008
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RE: Appropriate consequences - 9/15/2008 9:53:17 PM
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Christian30
Posts: 204
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From: Stafford, TX (Houston suburb)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: doinkdom
 My daughter did the same thing when she was about 7 - not AWANA, but a youth group setting.
She got spanked when we got home - just stating fact, not discussing.
I put the toy away for a week.
She found it and took it back to her room.
I removed the toy again.
She found it.
I gave the toy away.
She tried this test one more time with a brand new Barbie doll to see if I was seriuos...she found out I was and we didn't have anymore toy issues after that.
All I knew was consistency...good or bad was most important in our household.
Right on target here. Direct disobedience is not a minor offence. You're on the right track with this one.
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RE: Appropriate consequences - 9/16/2008 9:27:28 AM
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danivrich
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i'm going through some disobedience issues with my 2 1/2 yo so i'm thankful for this thread!
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RE: Appropriate consequences - 9/16/2008 9:48:38 AM
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manda59
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Christian30
Right on target here. Direct disobedience is not a minor offence. You're on the right track with this one.
The boy only hid the toy in the truck rather than giving it to his mother. He did as he was told, he didn't take it into AWANA, so what is he supposed to have delierately disobeyed?
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"Once again....drum roll please! Manda is right"
doinkdom, October 2008
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RE: Appropriate consequences - 9/16/2008 10:15:21 AM
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doinkdom
Posts: 4279
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quote:
ORIGINAL: zoebob
I would say that this is not necessarily a minor offence: deliberately doing something you were just told not to do. In any case I would not necessarily say she is punishing the child twice. The spanking is a punishment for the willful defiance. Losing the toy for a week is a consequence of using the toy as the means of disobedience.
yep that was it. she recevied the s-word for rebellious behavior against parental authority....just as I am disciplined by God when I rebel against the authority of His word.
the other was a consequence of the means...
****************
I must have misread...I thought the little boy took the toy into Awana. I need to get new glasses. 
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RE: Appropriate consequences - 9/16/2008 11:24:43 AM
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Jenny-Fair
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quote:
The boy only hid the toy in the truck rather than giving it to his mother. He did as he was told, he didn't take it into AWANA, so what is he supposed to have delierately disobeyed? He did HALF of what he was told--she asked him to hand it to her.
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RE: Appropriate consequences - 9/16/2008 11:27:52 AM
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manda59
Posts: 6025
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jenny-Fair
He did HALF of what he was told--she asked him to hand it to her.
Which I personally would punish differently than if it had been outright disobedience.
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doinkdom, October 2008
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RE: Appropriate consequences - 9/16/2008 11:29:07 AM
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Jenny-Fair
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That is outright disobedience, plus sneakiness in hiding the toy, and I'd have come down just as hard as if he'd taken it into the building. The child did not obey. There are only two choices--obey or disobey, and he did not obey.
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Tony: Ziva, did you kill Houdini?
Ziva: It is possible. I do not remember all their names.
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RE: Appropriate consequences - 9/16/2008 12:31:36 PM
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manda59
Posts: 6025
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jenny-Fair
That is outright disobedience, plus sneakiness in hiding the toy, and I'd have come down just as hard as if he'd taken it into the building. The child did not obey. There are only two choices--obey or disobey, and he did not obey.
I agree about the sneakiness, but how was it outright disobedience? Sorry, I don't get it.
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"Once again....drum roll please! Manda is right"
doinkdom, October 2008
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RE: Appropriate consequences - 9/16/2008 12:42:24 PM
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Jenny-Fair
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Because she told him to give her the toy, and he did not give her the toy.
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Tony: Ziva, did you kill Houdini?
Ziva: It is possible. I do not remember all their names.
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RE: Appropriate consequences - 9/16/2008 12:46:35 PM
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manda59
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He may or may not have understood that he actually had to give it to her. He left it in her vehicle, so he may have seen that as having given it to her.
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doinkdom, October 2008
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RE: Appropriate consequences - 9/16/2008 7:18:01 PM
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zoebob
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I think deliberate half obedience is worse than straight outright disobedience: they know what they are supposed to do and only do enough to obey the "letter of the law" without really doing what they are supposed to.
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RE: Appropriate consequences - 9/16/2008 7:29:12 PM
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manda59
Posts: 6025
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Again, we will have to agree to disagree there regarding the seriousness of it. I actually also think it's pretty normal behaviour for a child of that age. Not that it's all right, but it's pretty well par for the course, and I personally wouldn't want to be coming down like a ton of bricks on a child for it, and think that confiscation would be quite enough punishment. Plus a good talking to.
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"Once again....drum roll please! Manda is right"
doinkdom, October 2008
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RE: Appropriate consequences - 9/16/2008 7:32:48 PM
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Christian30
Posts: 204
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From: Stafford, TX (Houston suburb)
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Slow or partial obedience is DISOBEDIENCE.
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RE: Appropriate consequences - 9/16/2008 7:45:26 PM
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manda59
Posts: 6025
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From: Hampshire, UK
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Christian30
Slow or partial obedience is DISOBEDIENCE.
I think there are degrees of disobedience. And I wouldn't want to punish, say, hiding the toy in the car, to the same degree as if he'd taken the toy into AWANA with him. With my children, I wanted them to understand degrees of seriousness of things they did wrong, not just punish the same for every single misdemeanour - I did not think that would teach them about perspective/relativity.
< Message edited by manda59 -- 9/16/2008 7:59:06 PM >
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"Once again....drum roll please! Manda is right"
doinkdom, October 2008
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RE: Appropriate consequences - 9/17/2008 6:09:33 AM
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Sideways
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I really like Manda's perspective on this issue.
I think she shows the right balance of consistent discipline and grace for the child's age and understanding. Cracking down hard on every little infraction certainly doesn't seem like the way to produce a healthy, happy, truely obedient child. Thanks, Manda!
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RE: Appropriate consequences - 9/17/2008 10:23:01 AM
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29redballoons
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From: Georgia
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quote:
I can assure you I have a very well-behaved and upright 19yo ds and 15yo dd, actually!
I hope you did not think I was implying that you did not. I was simply stating my opinion as everyone else has before me.
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