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Fact Check: New McCain Ad ("Disrespectful") - 9/12/2008 7:56:27 PM
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todd_t
Posts: 1590
Joined: 6/21/2006
From: The North Woods
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http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/belittling_palin.html
Summary
The McCain-Palin campaign has released a new TV ad that distorts quotes from the Obama campaign. It takes words out of context to make it sound as though the Democratic ticket is belittling Palin:
The ad says "they said she was doing 'what she was told.' " But the Obama adviser who's being quoted didn't accuse Palin of meekly following orders. What he actually said is that she made a false claim about Obama's legislative record and added, "maybe that's what she was told."
It says "they lashed out at Sarah Palin; dismissed her as 'good looking,' " But "they" didn't lash out at all. Obama – who is the one pictured – didn't say anything like that. The only one the McCain campaign quotes is Obama's running mate, Biden, and he actually offered the remark as a compliment. Biden said the "obvious" difference between Palin and himself is "she's good looking."
The ad says Obama was "disrespectful" when he accused Palin of "lying" about her record. But the truth is Palin's claim to have "said no" to the "bridge to nowhere" is indeed a dubious one, as we and many have pointed out.
_____________________________
In Memoriam: 1st Sgt. Obediah Kolath, US Army, Died in Iraq War (1973-2005)
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RE: Fact Check: New McCain Ad ("Disrespectful") - 9/12/2008 8:49:15 PM
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Lizahana
Posts: 1072
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Don't hold your breath - I think bad news on anything having to do with the McCain/Palin ticket is cause to ignore the post altogether.
Thanks for the info though.
Peace and God bless,
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RE: Fact Check: New McCain Ad ("Disrespectful") - 9/12/2008 9:12:17 PM
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todd_t
Posts: 1590
Joined: 6/21/2006
From: The North Woods
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quote:
I think bad news on anything having to do with the McCain/Palin ticket is cause to ignore the post altogether.
Way to live in a basement of your own perceptions.
_____________________________
In Memoriam: 1st Sgt. Obediah Kolath, US Army, Died in Iraq War (1973-2005)
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RE: Fact Check: New McCain Ad ("Disrespectful") - 9/12/2008 11:13:40 PM
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TMeeks
Posts: 2126
Joined: 1/27/2007
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Wow! Another cut & paste from the Obama fan club! We're SO excited!!!!
Do you cross yourselves when you bring us the great FactCheck revelations? 
You guys can't help yourself, can you?
I guess you aren't able to discern, for yourself, whether an ad is accurate or not, so you need that extra little crutch to help you make up your minds. Otherwise, I don't understand why anyone couldn't view the ad and come up with their own critique to present to us.
But, hey! That must be a novel idea in the Obama Kool-Aid club.
quote:
ORIGINAL: todd_t
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/belittling_palin.html
Summary
The McCain-Palin campaign has released a new TV ad that distorts quotes from the Obama campaign. It takes words out of context to make it sound as though the Democratic ticket is belittling Palin:
The ad says "they said she was doing 'what she was told.' " But the Obama adviser who's being quoted didn't accuse Palin of meekly following orders. What he actually said is that she made a false claim about Obama's legislative record and added, "maybe that's what she was told."
It says "they lashed out at Sarah Palin; dismissed her as 'good looking,' " But "they" didn't lash out at all. Obama – who is the one pictured – didn't say anything like that. The only one the McCain campaign quotes is Obama's running mate, Biden, and he actually offered the remark as a compliment. Biden said the "obvious" difference between Palin and himself is "she's good looking."
The ad says Obama was "disrespectful" when he accused Palin of "lying" about her record. But the truth is Palin's claim to have "said no" to the "bridge to nowhere" is indeed a dubious one, as we and many have pointed out.
_____________________________
Galatians 6:7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8 The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.
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RE: Fact Check: New McCain Ad ("Disrespectful") - 9/12/2008 11:49:56 PM
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relady
Posts: 1286
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Greater St. Louis Metro
Status: offline
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quote:
You guys can't help yourself, can you? I guess you aren't able to discern, for yourself, whether an ad is accurate or not, so you need that extra little crutch to help you make up your minds. I expect the "extra little crutch" is there for your benefit...as "proof" which is so often demanded and then ignored. Kinda like now. 
But wait, the right can't really discern whether an ad is accurate or not either, but instead of checking things out, they just believe whatever they are fed by their party. And make fun of those of us who actually do try and check out the truthfulness of ads. Oh, and accuse anyone not in agreement with them, of drinking "kool-aid". It would be funny if it weren't so sad, and if there weren't so much at stake.
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RE: Fact Check: New McCain Ad ("Disrespectful") - 9/13/2008 8:15:42 AM
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TMeeks
Posts: 2126
Joined: 1/27/2007
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Uh... I certainly don't mind you or anyone going to FactCheck.Org in an attempt to help determine the truthfulness of a political ad. In fact, I would encourage it. But, rather than slothfully cutting and pasting what they write, why not actually do some analysis yourselves and present that analysis for us to discuss.
Let me say it once again... IT IS THE SLOTHFUL AND LAZY CUT & PASTE that is the object of my objections. It's simply NOT an intellectually honest substitute for true discussion.
quote:
ORIGINAL: relady
quote:
You guys can't help yourself, can you? I guess you aren't able to discern, for yourself, whether an ad is accurate or not, so you need that extra little crutch to help you make up your minds. I expect the "extra little crutch" is there for your benefit...as "proof" which is so often demanded and then ignored. Kinda like now.
But wait, the right can't really discern whether an ad is accurate or not either, but instead of checking things out, they just believe whatever they are fed by their party. And make fun of those of us who actually do try and check out the truthfulness of ads. Oh, and accuse anyone not in agreement with them, of drinking "kool-aid". It would be funny if it weren't so sad, and if there weren't so much at stake.
_____________________________
Galatians 6:7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8 The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.
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RE: Fact Check: New McCain Ad ("Disrespectful") - 9/13/2008 8:38:55 AM
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iluvatar
Posts: 1961
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TMeeks
It's simply NOT an intellectually honest substitute for true discussion.
Nor are attacks responses like this, yet you continue...
-Dan.
< Message edited by iluvatar -- 9/13/2008 9:24:06 AM >
_____________________________
Well, I've been to one world fair, a picnic, and a rodeo, and that's the stupidest thing I ever heard come over a set of earphones.
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RE: Fact Check: New McCain Ad ("Disrespectful") - 9/13/2008 8:42:08 AM
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TMeeks
Posts: 2126
Joined: 1/27/2007
Status: offline
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What? Did I interrupt the 'Yeah! Yeah!' of the other posters in this thread? I'm sorry. From now on maybe all of us should just stand aside and let the forums be taken over by the cut and paste crowd. Would that make you happier?
Of all people, I would think that you would understand the cut & paste issue. Over on the Creation & Origins thread we see plenty of empty declarations of victory in the form of cut & paste articles from creationist sites.
quote:
ORIGINAL: iluvatar
quote:
ORIGINAL: TMeeks
It's simply NOT an intellectually honest substitute for true discussion.
Nor are attacks like this, yet you continue...
-Dan.
_____________________________
Galatians 6:7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8 The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.
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RE: Fact Check: New McCain Ad ("Disrespectful") - 9/13/2008 9:23:13 AM
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iluvatar
Posts: 1961
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TMeeks
What? Did I interrupt the 'Yeah! Yeah!' of the other posters in this thread? I'm sorry. From now on maybe all of us should just stand aside and let the forums be taken over by the cut and paste crowd. Would that make you happier?
Of all people, I would think that you would understand the cut & paste issue. Over on the Creation & Origins thread we see plenty of empty declarations of victory in the form of cut & paste articles from creationist sites.
quote:
ORIGINAL: iluvatar
quote:
ORIGINAL: TMeeks
It's simply NOT an intellectually honest substitute for true discussion.
Nor are attacks responses like this, yet you continue...
-Dan.
The only time I don't like c&p discussions is when people don't really understand them, don't apply them properly, and don't read or process the critiques of the material. That's fairly common in the science forum where the relevant material can take years of study to understand. It's a bit different in here because the issues (at least on the level that we're discussing) are significantly less complicated and relatively easy to double-check. It's a lot easier to find out whether or not so-and-so supported bill X than it is to find and comprehend material from some obscure professional journal.
Done properly, I actually kind of like c&p threads, because it means there's one less layer of interpretation I have to filter out.
FWIW, I should not have used the word "attack" earlier. "Response" would have been more appropriate and more in line with what I meant. I will edit the post.
-Dan.
_____________________________
Well, I've been to one world fair, a picnic, and a rodeo, and that's the stupidest thing I ever heard come over a set of earphones.
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RE: Fact Check: New McCain Ad ("Disrespectful") - 9/13/2008 7:57:05 PM
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Lizahana
Posts: 1072
Joined: 4/20/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: todd_t
quote:
I think bad news on anything having to do with the McCain/Palin ticket is cause to ignore the post altogether.
Way to live in a basement of your own perceptions.
I meant no disrespect. I have also posted from factcheck.org and was met mostly with hostility - and no one to challenge what they say.
Peace and God bless,
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RE: Fact Check: New McCain Ad ("Disrespectful") - 9/13/2008 8:22:45 PM
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inthysite
Posts: 770
Joined: 2/12/2008
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quote:
I have also posted from factcheck.org and was met mostly with hostility - and no one to challenge what they say.
I as well as others have disputed the claims made by factcheck.org only to be given your well thought out response.
"Well they have footnotes and some from the government."
We have given detail objections and rebukes to their statements showing where their conclusions are wrong only to be ignored or given the brush off.
I have shown where they were completely wrong regarding Obama's sponsored bill on sex education for children, even quoting from the original bill.
I have read another poster's proof where factcheck's claims were based on the assumptions of the source they cite. Not very factual when based on assumptions.
I have pointed out where they have been extremely literal in their complaints about McCain/Palin while giving a pass to Obama/Biden.
For example when Palin was asked about ever having met a leader of a foreign nation she replied if you go back in history and ask previous VP's you will find there are several who have not met with leaders of foreign nations. What was factcheck's response? They said this was misleading because every VP who is currently alive had at one time met with a leader. Palin never limited it to current living VP's, as a matter a fact taken in context it is obvious she meant throughout history.
And now I'm showing you that your claims "no one to challenge what they say" are about as factual as factcheck.org.
_____________________________
Let the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart
Be acceptable in Thy sight, O LORD, my rock and my Redeemer - Psalm 19:14
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RE: Fact Check: New McCain Ad ("Disrespectful") - 9/13/2008 8:29:43 PM
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csl7037
Posts: 1761
Joined: 3/24/2008
Status: online
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I think it would be ridiculous and insulting for anyone remotely associated with Obama to claim anything anyone remotely associated with McCain did was "disrespectful". I'm still fuming over the ad about McCain not knowing how to send an email. That takes nerve, IMO.
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RE: Fact Check: New McCain Ad ("Disrespectful") - 9/13/2008 9:06:13 PM
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inthysite
Posts: 770
Joined: 2/12/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: csl7037
I think it would be ridiculous and insulting for anyone remotely associated with Obama to claim anything anyone remotely associated with McCain did was "disrespectful". I'm still fuming over the ad about McCain not knowing how to send an email. That takes nerve, IMO.
And where is the factcheck article debunking this Obama ad?
_____________________________
Let the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart
Be acceptable in Thy sight, O LORD, my rock and my Redeemer - Psalm 19:14
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RE: Fact Check: New McCain Ad ("Disrespectful") - 9/13/2008 9:34:00 PM
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csl7037
Posts: 1761
Joined: 3/24/2008
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: inthysite
quote:
ORIGINAL: csl7037
I think it would be ridiculous and insulting for anyone remotely associated with Obama to claim anything anyone remotely associated with McCain did was "disrespectful". I'm still fuming over the ad about McCain not knowing how to send an email. That takes nerve, IMO.
And where is the factcheck article debunking this Obama ad?
I don't care much about factcheck. The whole discussion here revolving around factcheck.com is tiresome. It's not about the facts being incorrect, it's about using a disability (a disability "earned" as a POW) as political fodder to denegrate the man. Strictly speaking, he can't use email. It's just insulting to use that and neglect to acknowledge there's a very good reason for that!
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RE: Fact Check: New McCain Ad ("Disrespectful") - 9/13/2008 9:38:13 PM
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inthysite
Posts: 770
Joined: 2/12/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
I don't care much about factcheck. The whole discussion here revolving around factcheck.com is tiresome. It's not about the facts being incorrect, it's about using a disability (a disability "earned" as a POW) as political fodder to denegrate the man. Strictly speaking, he can't use email. It's just insulting to use that and neglect to acknowledge there's a very good reason for that!
Don't get me wrong I completely agree, this ad is despicable.
_____________________________
Let the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart
Be acceptable in Thy sight, O LORD, my rock and my Redeemer - Psalm 19:14
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RE: Fact Check: New McCain Ad ("Disrespectful") - 9/14/2008 12:05:08 AM
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relady
Posts: 1286
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Greater St. Louis Metro
Status: offline
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quote:
I have shown where they were completely wrong regarding Obama's sponsored bill on sex education for children, even quoting from the original bill. NO, you didn't. Factcheck presented the facts. You don't like the facts. That doesn't make Factcheck wrong or unreliable. I simply means you disagree with a certain assessment of the facts.
quote:
It's not about the facts being incorrect, it's about using a disability (a disability "earned" as a POW) as political fodder to denegrate the man. Strictly speaking, he can't use email. It's just insulting to use that and neglect to acknowledge there's a very good reason for that! So you're telling me that he is not able to type emails because why???? I understand that he cannot raise his arms very high, but he can write, he can use his hands, he can shake hands. There is no reason I can see why he would not be able to use email -- or at least know how to use it.
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RE: Fact Check: New McCain Ad ("Disrespectful") - 9/14/2008 12:26:29 AM
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iluvatar
Posts: 1961
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: relady
So you're telling me that he is not able to type emails because why????
Because he's said for years that he's unable to type. Heck, unless I have my desk and chair arms at the perfect height, I can't type for very long and I didn't spend 5 years in Vietnam getting the snot kicked out of me every day. I'm not a McCain supporter, but I think we can give him a pass on this one.
quote:
I understand that he cannot raise his arms very high, but he can write, he can use his hands, he can shake hands. There is no reason I can see why he would not be able to use email -- or at least know how to use it.
He probably knows more than he lets on, but not being physically able to use a computer would likely put a damper on somebody's interest in learning how.
-Dan.
_____________________________
Well, I've been to one world fair, a picnic, and a rodeo, and that's the stupidest thing I ever heard come over a set of earphones.
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RE: Fact Check: New McCain Ad ("Disrespectful") - 9/14/2008 12:33:59 AM
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relady
Posts: 1286
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Greater St. Louis Metro
Status: offline
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quote:
Because he's said for years that he's unable to type. Heck, unless I have my desk and chair arms at the perfect height, I can't type for very long and I didn't spend 5 years in Vietnam getting the snot kicked out of me every day. I'm not a McCain supporter, but I think we can give him a pass on this one. OH, ok. I didn't know that. I type all day, all the time and I don't really understand the problem but if he cannot, I'll give him a pass on that. Of course, that doesn't stop him from know HOW it works and having an assistant to do the typing. 
OTOH, he is pretty old (kinda like my parents) and understanding computer stuff does seem to be an issue for the elderly.
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RE: Fact Check: New McCain Ad ("Disrespectful") - 9/14/2008 10:42:08 PM
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todd_t
Posts: 1590
Joined: 6/21/2006
From: The North Woods
Status: offline
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quote:
So you're telling me that he is not able to type emails because why???? I understand that he cannot raise his arms very high, but he can write, he can use his hands, he can shake hands. There is no reason I can see why he would not be able to use email -- or at least know how to use it.
McCain is often seen using a Blackberry. If he can (physically) use keys that small, he can use a PC keyboard.
_____________________________
In Memoriam: 1st Sgt. Obediah Kolath, US Army, Died in Iraq War (1973-2005)
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RE: Fact Check: New McCain Ad ("Disrespectful") - 9/15/2008 6:53:16 AM
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inthysite
Posts: 770
Joined: 2/12/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
NO, you didn't. Factcheck presented the facts. You don't like the facts. That doesn't make Factcheck wrong or unreliable. I simply means you disagree with a certain assessment of the facts.
Read the bill.
_____________________________
Let the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart
Be acceptable in Thy sight, O LORD, my rock and my Redeemer - Psalm 19:14
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RE: Fact Check: New McCain Ad ("Disrespectful") - 9/15/2008 7:28:43 AM
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iluvatar
Posts: 1961
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: todd_t
quote:
So you're telling me that he is not able to type emails because why???? I understand that he cannot raise his arms very high, but he can write, he can use his hands, he can shake hands. There is no reason I can see why he would not be able to use email -- or at least know how to use it.
McCain is often seen using a Blackberry. If he can (physically) use keys that small, he can use a PC keyboard.
I'd imagine that it has to do more with how you have to have your arms placed to use a regular keyboard than it does with how you move your hands. His arms are pretty messed up.
-Dan.
_____________________________
Well, I've been to one world fair, a picnic, and a rodeo, and that's the stupidest thing I ever heard come over a set of earphones.
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RE: Fact Check: New McCain Ad ("Disrespectful") - 9/15/2008 8:54:47 AM
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rhippie
Posts: 628
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: Rich The Hippie
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: inthysite
quote:
NO, you didn't. Factcheck presented the facts. You don't like the facts. That doesn't make Factcheck wrong or unreliable. I simply means you disagree with a certain assessment of the facts.
Read the bill.
Now why would anyone want to do something as outrageous as actually reading the legislation being discussed when you can go to any number of sites and cut and paste a response!! How could you possibly suggest such a reasoned approach to debate???!!!! I'M SHOCKED I TELL YOU!!! SHOCKED!!
Oh yeah and I'm still waiting for someone to respond to my query as to WHEN all those Veeps met with foreign heads of state; was it before or after they became Veep?
_____________________________
Stand up for what's right....even if you're standing alone
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RE: Fact Check: New McCain Ad ("Disrespectful") - 9/15/2008 9:11:05 AM
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SwedishCovenant
Posts: 606
Joined: 8/8/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rhippie
quote:
ORIGINAL: inthysite
quote:
NO, you didn't. Factcheck presented the facts. You don't like the facts. That doesn't make Factcheck wrong or unreliable. I simply means you disagree with a certain assessment of the facts.
Read the bill.
Now why would anyone want to do something as outrageous as actually reading the legislation being discussed when you can go to any number of sites and cut and paste a response!! How could you possibly suggest such a reasoned approach to debate???!!!! I'M SHOCKED I TELL YOU!!! SHOCKED!!
Oh yeah and I'm still waiting for someone to respond to my query as to WHEN all those Veeps met with foreign heads of state; was it before or after they became Veep?
So, let me get this right - the Forum will not allow lengthy posts of entire documents, as you know - and now cut-and-paste selections from lengthier documents are also somehow to be dismissed? What's next, links?
Just how much removal of factual content does it take to make a post palatable?
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RE: Fact Check: New McCain Ad ("Disrespectful") - 9/15/2008 10:19:28 AM
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rhippie
Posts: 628
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: Rich The Hippie
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SwedishCovenant
quote:
ORIGINAL: rhippie
quote:
ORIGINAL: inthysite
quote:
NO, you didn't. Factcheck presented the facts. You don't like the facts. That doesn't make Factcheck wrong or unreliable. I simply means you disagree with a certain assessment of the facts.
Read the bill.
Now why would anyone want to do something as outrageous as actually reading the legislation being discussed when you can go to any number of sites and cut and paste a response!! How could you possibly suggest such a reasoned approach to debate???!!!! I'M SHOCKED I TELL YOU!!! SHOCKED!!
Oh yeah and I'm still waiting for someone to respond to my query as to WHEN all those Veeps met with foreign heads of state; was it before or after they became Veep?
So, let me get this right - the Forum will not allow lengthy posts of entire documents, as you know - and now cut-and-paste selections from lengthier documents are also somehow to be dismissed? What's next, links?
Just how much removal of factual content does it take to make a post palatable?
I have no problem if you cut and paste as long as you add some of your own analysis to it, or better yet how about if you comment on what is being cut and pasted?
FYI:
My comment that you so blithely ignored was in response to a comment suggesting that you actually read the bill so that you would know what it said before you did a c&p on it.
And I'm still waiting for a response to my question concerning the Veep. Can you answer it or are you afraid to?
_____________________________
Stand up for what's right....even if you're standing alone
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RE: Fact Check: New McCain Ad ("Disrespectful") - 9/15/2008 12:46:59 PM
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SpiritualPowers
Posts: 44
Joined: 9/9/2008
Status: offline
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We are debating fact or truth on a politician ????????? Which ons is the lesser EVIL , Ill take the POW AND SOCCER MOM over the other choices . I do have to ask is Obama the best Dem, for the job . Clinton was forgiven for Adultry and didnt get Impeached why not pick his Wife and are there any Democrats with Experance or a clean record Obama in 6 years has campaned for 4 and a half (not fact checked) so why him. God saved Mccain for a reason this may be it , Lets pray and do Gods Will not our Own Opinion. There is only one side for us Gods every thing else is Flesh aka Sin. God gives us our opinion, God Bless us and give us a crystal clear vision to do your will amen.
_____________________________
Never forget our Spiritusl power,Authority and Protection which is or Inheritance in Jesus Christ our Lord.
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