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RE: Criticisms and Dirt on McCain? - 9/6/2008 5:55:58 AM
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tracydolls
Posts: 1839
Joined: 3/30/2008
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In 1983 Mccain voted agaisnt the MLK jr Holiday. He has since apologized.
In 2004? He said it would be irresponsible to give the wealthy Bush's taxes cuts. He now supports them.
He is now against his own immigration bill.
How can I trust him anymore?
Is this all talk now and once there............
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RE: Criticisms and Dirt on McCain? - 9/6/2008 6:53:15 AM
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csl7037
Posts: 1761
Joined: 3/24/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Rufas2000
If Obama had called whites "crackers" and refused to repent for a time but had since repented eight years ago and did not use it since I would absolutely accept his repentance and defend him on these forums in the same way that I defended McCain. If you looked at my post history you would see that I have defended Obama from charges that have more relevance than this.
Obama goes around talking about "those white people" all the time which I find highly offensive not as a white person but as an American because he does this specifically to stir up division. And all we can find to talk about on McCain is a derogatory term he used in the past to describe people WHO TORTURED HIM adn then graciously apologized for it. All the while we, and the media, give Biden a pass on all the stupid things he says?!?
I've had a lot of differences with McCain in the past - on policy. We could discuss that but we already have at length in the past and, apparently, it's not as interesting as the more colorful stuff you'd rather resurrect.
Bottom line is now we're at a place where that doesn't matter all that much. The option now isn't McCain or Romney...the option now is McCain or Obama. And while he's not my favorite Republican (if he really even is one), I'm actually glad he's the nominee on at least one level - the STARK contrast between him and Obama, to me, is disgraceful. On policies, agree 100% of the time or not, I think most of us would still say we agree with him 10,000X more than we ever could with Obama. If McCain's politics aren't perfect, it looks pretty good next to Obama's who are downright SCAREY. But where McCain truly calls Obama on the carpet is in his character and experience - Legislative AND Life experience.
You could've put Mother Teresa in a political campaign and I'm sure you'd have found criticisms and dirt. We seem to reduce this to a hobby or sport rather than making the necessary examination of the two options before us. If we want to compare and contrast our two candidates, OK, but I wont play "how low can you go" with you guys.
Edited to add...
I also find it interesting that the supposedly "racist" ticket has two interracial families on it.
< Message edited by csl7037 -- 9/6/2008 8:06:52 AM >
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RE: Criticisms and Dirt on McCain? - 9/6/2008 8:34:35 AM
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_jjp_
Posts: 483
Joined: 10/25/2007
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I have no problem supporting McCain, he comes from a long line of men who have actually served this country, not expected this country to serve them. McCain's lineage has taken to heart not asking what this country can do for them but what they can do for this country. Some attack him as being out of touch with the everyday american because he married a rich woman, nonsense. This man, like his forefathers, has fought beside common everyday Americans, he has had to watch them die and has suffered for this country in ways that most of us can't even comprehend. Governor Palin is the embodiment of everyday America, working class family with it's fair share of blemishes, pregnant daughter and all. If Palin ever showed up at a barbeque she would probably help cook, maybe even bring something she caught or killed. BO has no knowledge nor connection with the American people outside of his sphere of political influence, BO has no pride in this nation (as reflected by his wife).
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RE: Criticisms and Dirt on McCain? - 9/6/2008 8:55:13 AM
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okrox
Posts: 157
Joined: 4/28/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: csl7037
Obama goes around talking about "those white people" all the time things he says?!?
References, please?
_____________________________
Redeeming love has been my theme, and shall be 'til I die.
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RE: Criticisms and Dirt on McCain? - 9/6/2008 9:21:24 AM
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okrox
Posts: 157
Joined: 4/28/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: _jjp_
BO has no knowledge nor connection with the American people outside of his sphere of political influence, BO has no pride in this nation (as reflected by his wife).
The man had a difficult and very un-prosperous childhood. He PUT HIMSELF through Harvard. He CHOSE to take a path of service and responsibility, with no father to guide him. Disagree with him politically if you like, but he is a great American success story. I would be proud to tell his story to my own children and say, "See what's possible in America?"
And by the way, all this talk about "identifying" with Palin mystifies me. I identify with lots of people. That doesn't qualify them to run my country.
But back to the REAL topic here:
Some concerns with McCain:
1. Age and health: He is 72 with a history of cancer. Yes, Ronald Reagan was old, too, and turned out to be one of our greatest ever, but, frankly, we were lucky. And he didn't have the health history of McCain.
2. Judgment on VP: Actually, I had pretty well settled on McCain until he picked Palin. I felt she was a pandering, insulting choice to women (he passed over many other more qualified, less sexy and press-grabbing women with far less baggage.) I was also horrified at her lack of experience, which we have discussed ad nauseum here. (Wasilla is NOT a training ground for leading the free world, and Alsaska, guys, is NOT a good cross-section of the US.)
3. Morals: I actually feel that Obama has shown himself to be the more moral man. Yeah. Really. But that's not necessarily one of my criteria.
4. Social Security: McCain wants more privatizing.
5. McCain supports tax cuts for the wealthy. Obama, increases only on the truly wealthy. (EARNED income over 250K annually, estates over 3.5 million, exempting estate taxes under that.) See Quote: According to an analysis by the non-partisan Tax Policy Center, under Obama’s blueprint, “The largest tax cuts, as a share of income, would go to those at the bottom of the income distribution, while taxpayers with the highest income would see their taxes rise significantly.” McCain, by contrast, would like to permanently extend the 2001 income tax rate cuts.“McCain’s tax cuts would primarily benefit those with very high incomes, almost all of whom would receive large tax cuts that would, on average, raise their after-tax incomes by more than twice the average for all households,” said the Tax Policy Center
6. IRAN: McCain was pretty glib about the possibility of bombing Iran. Go check that out.
7. Proposed dropping gas tax during the summer. RIDICULOUS! Road and bridges still need repaired during the summer! That's where the money (barely) comes from! Where are we going to get it?
That's just for talking points. Believe it or not, I am still undecided. I just really, really am amazed at the free pass the hard Christian right seems to give McCain.
_____________________________
Redeeming love has been my theme, and shall be 'til I die.
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RE: Criticisms and Dirt on McCain? - 9/6/2008 9:45:05 AM
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Rufas2000
Posts: 1315
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quote:
BO has no pride in this nation (as reflected by his wife).
I gotta follow through with what I said up thread. Michelle Obama said something then claified it on several occasions. I think Michelle meant that she felt pride in America personally and not on a theoretical level. If I'm willing to let McCain's racial slurs go then I'll also allow Michelle Obama's statement go. I'm not going to condemn a 45 year old African American woman for not being a super patriot. Even her initial statement shows that she is proud of America now for the opportunity it gave her husband.
quote:
The man had a difficult and very un-prosperous childhood. He PUT HIMSELF through Harvard. He CHOSE to take a path of service and responsibility, with no father to guide him. Disagree with him politically if you like, but he is a great American success story. I would be proud to tell his story to my own children and say, "See what's possible in America?"
Well said. People can disagree with Obama without denigrating his life story.
_____________________________
Be my friend!
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RE: Criticisms and Dirt on McCain? - 9/6/2008 10:56:17 AM
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wing2000
Posts: 1029
Joined: 4/14/2005
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Concerns:
1. Temper and anger issues.
2. He was wrong to support the decision to invade Iraq
3. It disturbs me that McCain has not done more to support our veterans.
4. His pick of an inexperienced VP was irresponsible (country first?)
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RE: Criticisms and Dirt on McCain? - 9/6/2008 12:20:38 PM
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solomonsprayer
Posts: 538
Joined: 8/1/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: csl7037
quote:
ORIGINAL: Rufas2000
If Obama had called whites "crackers" and refused to repent for a time but had since repented eight years ago and did not use it since I would absolutely accept his repentance and defend him on these forums in the same way that I defended McCain. If you looked at my post history you would see that I have defended Obama from charges that have more relevance than this.
Obama goes around talking about "those white people" all the time which I find highly offensive not as a white person but as an American because he does this specifically to stir up division. And all we can find to talk about on McCain is a derogatory term he used in the past to describe people WHO TORTURED HIM adn then graciously apologized for it. All the while we, and the media, give Biden a pass on all the stupid things he says?!?
I've had a lot of differences with McCain in the past - on policy. We could discuss that but we already have at length in the past and, apparently, it's not as interesting as the more colorful stuff you'd rather resurrect.
Well, I would agree with my earlier post to say again that I have seen how this "gook" concern about McCain is no longer an issue, given how long ago it happened and that McCain apologized finally for it.
I do not whatsoever justify it, though (when it was an issue). I felt there was a cultural/media double standard (stated in my earlier post) of white privilege and the valuing of white lives and white suffering and excusing of white sins more easily than those of minorities. Part of my concern was to make sure that we use the same degree of scrutiny in evaluating canddiates. If we choose to excuse McCain for his racist Asian slurs (which the media gave him a pass on in 2000...I was following the story carefully back then and remember the outcry in California and the West over it and lack of apology and then never seeing the story in political media once ever again after that), then we ought to try to understand a little better the racial bigotry of Jeremiah Wright, who used "white devils," among other names, to describe a system/oppressive people of whites in the country who put blacks through a living hell (kind of like that hell John McCain went through). I'm just saying....we cannot have a double standard of empathy or dismissal of things.
Jeremiah Wright was upset with America, in the same way McCain was upset with the tortute he faced from the North Vietnamese. It may have led them to make offensive racist statements, but we most have the same standard of outrage and empathy towards them. That hasn't always happened. Even now in revisiting the issue, people still justify McCain's actions. Nto everyone, but many I talk to. My point originally was to only show the double standard that existed. I brought up the "gook" debacle as a starting point to get issue rolling for McCain. But I now regret doing so. I can see that for those who've healed and omved on, it is no more appropriate to sling the "dirt" at him than it is to sling dirt at anyone else for a past and repented mistake.
Of course, tht's not to say McCain does not have other flaws and concerns that ought to be looked at. We need to look at his policies, his plan for future, and other character issues. And in doing so, let us be fair, let us be objectively critical of McCain and equally and objectively empathetic with him as we are with Obama.
< Message edited by solomonsprayer -- 9/6/2008 12:46:49 PM >
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RE: Criticisms and Dirt on McCain? - 9/6/2008 3:21:20 PM
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solomonsprayer
Posts: 538
Joined: 8/1/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: wing2000
Concerns:
1. Temper and anger issues.
2. He was wrong to support the decision to invade Iraq
3. It disturbs me that McCain has not done more to support our veterans.
4. His pick of an inexperienced VP was irresponsible (country first?)
What are McCain's temper and anger issues?
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RE: Criticisms and Dirt on McCain? - 9/6/2008 3:22:21 PM
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solomonsprayer
Posts: 538
Joined: 8/1/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: solomonsprayer
quote:
ORIGINAL: wing2000
Concerns:
1. Temper and anger issues.
2. He was wrong to support the decision to invade Iraq
3. It disturbs me that McCain has not done more to support our veterans.
4. His pick of an inexperienced VP was irresponsible (country first?)
What are McCain's temper and anger issues?
Also, what if McCain picked Hillary as VP? THAT would be intriguing!...given her share of supporters...his age.....her potential rise into Presidency.
< Message edited by solomonsprayer -- 9/6/2008 3:30:43 PM >
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RE: Criticisms and Dirt on McCain? - 9/6/2008 5:13:07 PM
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PhunkD
Posts: 217
Joined: 2/17/2008
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quote:
What are McCain's temper and anger issues?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSlAJ5hkAC4
emotional outbursts are common amongst people with PTSD, which you would expect a torture survivor to have. We don't know for sure if McCain has it, because of he gave only limited access to medical records.
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RE: Criticisms and Dirt on McCain? - 9/6/2008 6:11:54 PM
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solomonsprayer
Posts: 538
Joined: 8/1/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: PhunkD
quote:
What are McCain's temper and anger issues?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSlAJ5hkAC4
emotional outbursts are common amongst people with PTSD, which you would expect a torture survivor to have. We don't know for sure if McCain has it, because of he gave only limited access to medical records.
I see. What other critiques of McCain are there? Is he unflawed otherwise?
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RE: Criticisms and Dirt on McCain? - 9/6/2008 7:53:50 PM
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saved9201
Posts: 712
Joined: 4/15/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: solomonsprayer
quote:
ORIGINAL: PhunkD
quote:
What are McCain's temper and anger issues?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSlAJ5hkAC4
emotional outbursts are common amongst people with PTSD, which you would expect a torture survivor to have. We don't know for sure if McCain has it, because of he gave only limited access to medical records.
I see. What other critiques of McCain are there? Is he unflawed otherwise?
IF and I say IF he does have flaws, its only because he was tortured in Vietnam while he was a POW......
You know the rest of the story. If you don't, you'll have it memorized soon enough.
- Julius
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RE: Criticisms and Dirt on McCain? - 9/6/2008 8:18:28 PM
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PhunkD
Posts: 217
Joined: 2/17/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: solomonsprayer
quote:
ORIGINAL: PhunkD
quote:
What are McCain's temper and anger issues?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSlAJ5hkAC4
emotional outbursts are common amongst people with PTSD, which you would expect a torture survivor to have. We don't know for sure if McCain has it, because of he gave only limited access to medical records.
I see. What other critiques of McCain are there? Is he unflawed otherwise?
I already provided a list earlier in this thread. There are too many.
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