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RE: In Defense of Community Organizing - 9/5/2008 7:59:29 PM
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tracydolls
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Well I can testify to this, the GOP's remarks have galvanized the community organizers to come out and get the vote.
For the first time in this election, someone knocked on my door about politics.....
A community organizer!
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RE: In Defense of Community Organizing - 9/5/2008 8:00:35 PM
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Rufas2000
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quote:
Yea, maybe that experience is more valuable that 140-something days voting present in the Senate - still doesn't compare to decades working hard on Legislation, fighting down-and-dirty political battles for your principles one term after another, or even making actual management/executive decisions for an entire state.
Exactly.
quote:
I can buy part of that. I know Palin was defending herself against Obama's remarks.
OK, I get Jack's point now. But I guess we could also say that Obama was defending himself against McCain's criticism of his experience. But that makes sense. I didn't follow Jack's point as we've been hearing about Obama's supposed lack of experience ad infinitum.
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RE: In Defense of Community Organizing - 9/5/2008 8:04:48 PM
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solomonsprayer
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quote:
ORIGINAL: csl7037
quote:
ORIGINAL: solomonsprayer
Actually the other thread "Palin Owes a lot of Good People and Apology" ...in that, Jim Wallis says community organizing can, for some, be interpreted as MORE experience than what politicians do....See his detailed explanation. http://blog.beliefnet.com/godspolitics/2008/09/palin-owes-some-good-people-an.html
Yea, maybe that experience is more valuable that 140-something days voting present in the Senate - still doesn't compare to decades working hard on Legislation, fighting down-and-dirty political battles for your principles one term after another, or even making actual management/executive decisions for an entire state.
Didn't say it was. Not comparing Obama to McCain....Just objectively looking at Obama's experience alone.
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RE: In Defense of Community Organizing - 9/5/2008 9:15:48 PM
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Jhud
Posts: 7784
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From: Lake Wobegon
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quote:
I can buy part of that. I know Palin was defending herself against Obama's remarks.
With Obama, though, people said same things about his lack of experience when he was first being vetted and then campaigning to be the Dem nominee...Anyhow, ....um, let's get this thread back to its original intent, which was to defend community organizing.
Actually the other thread "Palin Owes a lot of Good People an Apology" ...in that, Jim Wallis says community organizing can, for some, be interpreted as MORE experience (or impact) than what politicians do....See his detailed explanation.
http://blog.beliefnet.com/godspolitics/2008/09/palin-owes-some-good-people-an.html
Again she was not denigrating community organizing, she was saying that the job of a mayor is certainly no less an experience.
< Message edited by Jhud -- 9/5/2008 9:47:27 PM >
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It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first..
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RE: In Defense of Community Organizing - 9/5/2008 9:44:27 PM
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solomonsprayer
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I think we can agree on this.
Community organizing is legitimate and important work that is undervalued by critics of Obama and that while Palin had every right to defend herself against Obama's elitism in downplaying Palin's executive experience from a small town/state, she did also unfortunately word her barb in such a way as to offend community organizers as a whole .....something she and others will probably have ot apologize for soon (as a political move and hopefully a sincere one)....
She needs to clear that up to prevent it from getting back to her...both were wrong (Obama and Palin)....
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RE: In Defense of Community Organizing - 9/5/2008 9:56:00 PM
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csl7037
Posts: 1761
Joined: 3/24/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: solomonsprayer
I think we can agree on this.
Community organizing is legitimate and important work that is undervalued by critics of Obama and that while Palin had every right to defend herself against Obama's elitism in downplaying Palin's executive experience from a small town/state, she did also unfortunately word her barb in such a way as to offend community organizers as a whole .....something she and others will probably have ot apologize for soon (as a political move and hopefully a sincere one)....
She needs to clear that up to prevent it from getting back to her...both were wrong (Obama and Palin)....
No, we can't agree on that either.
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RE: In Defense of Community Organizing - 9/6/2008 3:28:29 AM
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Bob_George
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I thought it was ridiculous and kind of offensive that the Republicans were mocking community service. Why is community service laughable to these guys? Again, they're taking pride in being ignorant. And Obama has more credentials than being a community organiser. They didn't mention that he was a civil lawyer, a law professor, his work in state legislature or in the senate, instead they focus on the three years he was a community organiser. I don't get what's ridiculous about community service. What's ridiculous is that a "hockey mom" who was the mayor of a small town, population 6000 and who only became a governor barely two years ago, of a state with the 9th smallest population in America, could potential be the next vice president or even president since her running mate is a 72-year-old man who's had cancer and unfortunately could possibly die in office.
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RE: In Defense of Community Organizing - 9/6/2008 6:58:20 AM
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csl7037
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quote:
ORIGINAL: solomonsprayer
Didn't say it was. Not comparing Obama to McCain....Just objectively looking at Obama's experience alone.
...Because you can't. That's been my point in a couple of threads. We can discuss ad nauseum but we're at the point that what matters is the comparison between the two - and I think that's the very last thing the Obama camp wants people to do.
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RE: In Defense of Community Organizing - 9/6/2008 7:31:39 AM
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_jjp_
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Bob_George
I thought it was ridiculous and kind of offensive that the Republicans were mocking community service. Why is community service laughable to these guys? Again, they're taking pride in being ignorant. And Obama has more credentials than being a community organiser. They didn't mention that he was a civil lawyer, a law professor, his work in state legislature or in the senate, instead they focus on the three years he was a community organiser. I don't get what's ridiculous about community service. What's ridiculous is that a "hockey mom" who was the mayor of a small town, population 6000 and who only became a governor barely two years ago, of a state with the 9th smallest population in America, could potential be the next vice president or even president since her running mate is a 72-year-old man who's had cancer and unfortunately could possibly die in office.
Law professor, civil lawyer? We don't need more lawyers in government.
Palin may have only been mayor for a couple of years and it may not be for the state of california, which liberals seem to think is the only state worth running, but she has at least ran something larger than a law class. She has had to make decisions, unlike BO who has been in the senate less time than Palin has been governor and has accomplished 0 while there. He hasn't done anything since he has been in the senate (probably so he wouldn't have a chance of messing up) yet some feel that he is over qualified to run the country because he fired poor people up to vote and fed them at a soup kitchen. I have worked soup kitchens, does that make me qualified to be president?
What is really telling is that the BO camp is now running against Palin and not McCain, they are trying to convince us that McCain is sure to die soon so we need not look at his credentials. Well his very fit 96 year old mother may have something to say about that :)
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RE: In Defense of Community Organizing - 9/6/2008 7:53:51 AM
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Bob_George
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quote:
unlike BO who has been in the senate less time than Palin has been governor
Obama was sworn in to the senate in January 2005. Palin assumed office as Governor of Alaska in December 2006. Nearly two years later.
quote:
and has accomplished 0 while there. He hasn't done anything since he has been in the senate
Well you can Google his legislative achievements yourself. I'm not going to copy and past a long list of all the bills Obama introduced or helped introduce. He's also been a part of Senate committees for Foreign Relations, Environment and Public Works and Veterans' Affairs. He's the Chairman of the Foreign Relations subcommittee for European Affairs. I don't think that's a bad effort for three and a half years.
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What is really telling is that the BO camp is now running against Palin and not McCain, they are trying to convince us that McCain is sure to die soon so we need not look at his credentials. Well his very fit 96 year old mother may have something to say about that :)
His mother may be alive and well at 96. But his father died at age 70.
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RE: In Defense of Community Organizing - 9/6/2008 8:09:27 AM
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_jjp_
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Bob_George
quote:
unlike BO who has been in the senate less time than Palin has been governor
Obama was sworn in to the senate in January 2005. Palin assumed office as Governor of Alaska in December 2006. Nearly two years later.
I guess i should have been more clear, Palin has actually had to work more time as governor than BO has as a senator. How long has he been campaigning instead of working as a senator? How many breaks does the senate take a year compared to how many breaks can a mayor or governor take? How many times did BO vote present on legislation, which is basically showing up to collect a paycheck as far as i am concerned? What has BO done with his time in the senate? What has he accomplished?
quote:
ORIGINAL: Bob_George
quote:
and has accomplished 0 while there. He hasn't done anything since he has been in the senate
Well you can Google his legislative achievements yourself. I'm not going to copy and past a long list of all the bills Obama introduced or helped introduce. He's also been a part of Senate committees for Foreign Relations, Environment and Public Works and Veterans' Affairs. He's the Chairman of the Foreign Relations subcommittee for European Affairs. I don't think that's a bad effort for three and a half years.
What legislation has barak authored? Sponsoring legislation is not an accomplishment, being given a seat on a committee is not an accomplishment, that is a favor. An accomplishment would be if you could say that he sat on a committee and actually did somehting, actually made a difference by his presence, actually authored some piece of vital legislation, actually had an original idea and got it enacted. You can not honestly say anything of the sort about this man.
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RE: In Defense of Community Organizing - 9/6/2008 9:51:50 AM
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rcjames
Posts: 5668
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From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: _jjp_
An accomplishment would be if you could say that he sat on a committee and actually did somehting, actually made a difference by his presence,
In defense of B. Hussein Obama; he did something when in the State legislature; he argied fpr infanticide.
Thanks
RC
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RE: In Defense of Community Organizing - 9/6/2008 9:56:04 AM
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Bob_George
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: _jjp_
An accomplishment would be if you could say that he sat on a committee and actually did somehting, actually made a difference by his presence,
In defense of B. Hussein Obama; he did something when in the State legislature; he argied fpr infanticide.
Thanks
RC
No. He argued against the bill because a better one that did the same job already existed.
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RE: In Defense of Community Organizing - 9/6/2008 10:01:01 AM
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wing2000
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quote:
I guess i should have been more clear, Palin has actually had to work more time as governor than BO has as a senator. How long has he been campaigning instead of working as a senator? How many breaks does the senate take a year compared to how many breaks can a mayor or governor take? How many times did BO vote present on legislation, which is basically showing up to collect a paycheck as far as i am concerned? What has BO done with his time in the senate? What has he accomplished?
...and to be more fair -- what did Senators's Obama and McCain do this past year + in the Senate. The fact is, any one who runs for President is not going to get much accomplished.
And Obama's list of legislative accomplishments have already been stated...and available for your review....if you choose to read.
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RE: In Defense of Community Organizing - 9/6/2008 10:21:06 AM
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_jjp_
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quote:
ORIGINAL: wing2000
...and to be more fair -- what did Senators's Obama and McCain do this past year + in the Senate. The fact is, any one who runs for President is not going to get much accomplished.
The difference between the two is that barack has only been in the senate a couple of years and this run for president means he has spent over a third of his time campaigning and not working. I am of the opinion that when a senator, governor, whatever runs for president they should step down since they can't do their job and run.
quote:
And Obama's list of legislative accomplishments have already been stated...and available for your review....if you choose to read.
He sponsored a few bills and quite often voted present instead of taking a stand. I have read what barack has done and don't consider any of it accomplishments. Name for me one thing that Barack has done, don't go read it, name it for me off the top of your head since the man has so many accomplishments.
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RE: In Defense of Community Organizing - 9/6/2008 10:31:29 AM
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wing2000
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He co-sponsered a bill with Sen. Hagel (R) to keep nuclear material out of the hands of terrorists.
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RE: In Defense of Community Organizing - 9/6/2008 10:39:02 AM
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csl7037
Posts: 1761
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Bob_George
quote:
unlike BO who has been in the senate less time than Palin has been governor
Obama was sworn in to the senate in January 2005. Palin assumed office as Governor of Alaska in December 2006. Nearly two years later.
Congress is really a part time job, though.
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RE: In Defense of Community Organizing - 9/6/2008 10:39:17 AM
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_jjp_
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quote:
ORIGINAL: wing2000
He co-sponsered a bill with Sen. Hagel (R) to keep nuclear material out of the hands of terrorists.
Has HE done anything? Has he authored any legislation? Co-sponsoring means NOTHING, it shows not one iota of leadership skills.
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RE: In Defense of Community Organizing - 9/6/2008 10:41:02 AM
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csl7037
Posts: 1761
Joined: 3/24/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: wing2000
...and to be more fair -- what did Senators's Obama and McCain do this past year + in the Senate. The fact is, any one who runs for President is not going to get much accomplished.
And Obama's list of legislative accomplishments have already been stated...and available for your review....if you choose to read.
That's exactly why Obama should've stayed in the Senate and done something there instead of starting a Presidential campaign 4 minutes after he got elected to the Senate. So McCain hasn't been in DC much the last year - he's logged some hours!
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RE: In Defense of Community Organizing - 9/6/2008 10:41:32 AM
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wing2000
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quote:
Has HE done anything? Has he authored any legislation? Co-sponsoring means NOTHING, it shows not one iota of leadership skills.
I'm sure Sen. Chuck Hagel would be amused by your opinion.
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RE: In Defense of Community Organizing - 9/6/2008 10:48:50 AM
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saved9201
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I took the so-called mocking of Community Organizer in Rudy's and Palin's speeches attempts at humor. I don't think either meant any harm or were disparaging Community Organizing (provided one is organizing the community in a positive way) in general. Rudy's lines were funnier than Palin's, but I think had she worked on her delivery a little more, it would have come across better. The last thing the Obama camp needs to do is to whine about this.
- Julius
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RE: In Defense of Community Organizing - 9/6/2008 10:53:25 AM
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Bob_George
Posts: 177
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quote:
ORIGINAL: _jjp_
What legislation has barak authored?
Well he reauthorized the Voting Rights Act to prevent discriminatory barriers to voting. He introduced the Patriot Employer Act to provide a tax credit to companies that increase the number of employed full-time workers in America relative to those outside the US. He introduced the STOP FRAUD Act to increase penalties for mortgage fraud and provide more protections for low-income home-buyers. Then there's also a few that he co-authored with other senators but you dismissed those earlier.
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An accomplishment would be if you could say that he sat on a committee and actually did somehting
So say if he sat on the Veterans' Affairs committee and helped veterans get the disability pay they were promised, while working to get veterans from Iraq and Afghanistan health care when they return the the states, would that be an accomplishment?
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RE: In Defense of Community Organizing - 9/6/2008 11:17:00 AM
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AdrianaS
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The way I do approach the situation is with amazement at how it seems to me politicians and their parties "lately" hostage the voices of many who used to have a voice. I do think the leadership we see representing the people and getting into offices it reflects just few groups who are speaking more loud then others.
I was trying to not even think what was said about the weight in importance of community organizer comparissions with this or that. When I think about community I do think about workers, growing up in a 3rd world country my approach is very much foreigner to reality of most eyes in the USA, of course. And I dont see here the struggle of workers, hard working men and women as workers comming mostly from blue collar perspective and reality. I do think because so many factory jobs were lost and many pround industry lost or is losting brand USA known names, were people were pround to produce: "made in USA." Now I supose there are a lot of "ghost" factories towns and people moved on.
In those communities of hard working people there were a sense of pride in serve, as community organizers being part active of it, better it. I may feel kind of sad and being nostalgic about a place in time and my own experiences, still as many are still doing things, there is still something wrong as still firmly think politicians are out of touch with the real people they try to represent. As much proud people are of heroes of wars and identify with hockey mom next door, the senator who commutes everydy home by train, the african-american brought up by single mom and many etc each one have in their curriculums. Still somethings is missing, not embracing none of them.
You know people, hope they get to the point of issues and debates comes and stop all this distraction going on and just focus in issues and what is really matter. In a way Mrs Palin comming at this point in the election, not well known and people starting to get to know her and etc is a distraction. As I never paid attention to elections before as the way I am doing now, it is getting kind of irritating! Hope they stick with what matters soon..ewwww...my add is getting short circuiting in my brains. 
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