Is Young Women Having Babies Sending A Wrong Message To Christian Women? (Full Version)

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gaylel1 -> Is Young Women Having Babies Sending A Wrong Message To Christian Women? (9/2/2008 10:57:57 AM)

Since Sarah Palin's daughter announced to the country that she is pregnant and others such as Ashlee Simpson and Jamie Lynn Spears are keeping their babies, I believe that we are seeing an increace in having sex before marriage and even marrying the fathers, which is an honorable thing to do. However, with an increase in this, in my opinion, it sends a message and a bad one because it influence those who are vunable and does not know any better that it is all right to have sex before marriage, which I think it is very, very sad.

Have us as parents, teachers, youth leaders have done enough to hold on to folks virgninity and not do what these people has done? Because these young people are not our role models and that we need to do a better job to protect our Christian sisters.

What do you think?



dianetavegia -> RE: Is Young Women Having Babies Sending A Wrong Message To Christian Women? (9/2/2008 11:09:21 AM)

Gayle, There are two sides to this issue.

First, these young women who have chosen to keep their baby ARE a good example in that they did not silently have an abortion. They have taken responsibility for the life they have created. For that, we should salute them.

Speaking of the two celebrities, did you really think they were not sexually active? Just going by the way these young women dress and present themselves, I had my doubts.

Second, teens ARE having sex at an alarming rate but have been for many years. If they are not having abortions, it becomes more obvious.

The local high school in my town had 39 pregnant girls last spring. Our county has, at times, had the highest teen pregnancy rate in the U.S. per capita.

Are we doing enough? No. Can we tell kids to not have sex and expect that to be enough? No. Are we the greatest influence in our children's lives or are their friends more influential?

All we can do is raise them knowing what scripture says, educate them and pray!

For the record, our only daughter got pregnant outside of marriage TWICE. Once at 18 and once at 25.



kohls356 -> RE: Is Young Women Having Babies Sending A Wrong Message To Christian Women? (9/2/2008 11:10:31 AM)

I don't really think there is an increase in premarital sex. Maybe the reason we are seeing more girls pregnant is because they are choosing to keep their babies and not run and have an abortion.

I have three daughters and I talk to them all the time about waiting until they are married until they have sex. In the end it is up to them to make that decision and as much as I would like I can't hold on to their virginity.



zamdad -> RE: Is Young Women Having Babies Sending A Wrong Message To Christian Women? (9/2/2008 11:20:06 AM)

I don't know how we can see there is an increase in premarital sex. It seems like the OP is looking at headlines in the media and coming to the conclusion there must be more fornication. Fornication has been prevalent since the fall.

As to the question about holding each other accountable. When we, the church, are consuming more media than scripture, our minds are going to be shaped to look at life from a worldly perspective. Until we get into the word as individuals and build each other up to equip others to spend more time in the word, our shock and outrage is going to do nothing to fix anything.



gaylel1 -> RE: Is Young Women Having Babies Sending A Wrong Message To Christian Women? (9/2/2008 11:25:18 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: dianetavegia

Gayle, There are two sides to this issue.

First, these young women who have chosen to keep their baby ARE a good example in that they did not silently have an abortion. They have taken responsibility for the life they have created. For that, we should salute them.

Speaking of the two celebrities, did you really think they were not sexually active? Just going by the way these young women dress and present themselves, I had my doubts.

Second, teens ARE having sex at an alarming rate but have been for many years. If they are not having abortions, it becomes more obvious.

The local high school in my town had 39 pregnant girls last spring. Our county has, at times, had the highest teen pregnancy rate in the U.S. per capita.

Are we doing enough? No. Can we tell kids to not have sex and expect that to be enough? No. Are we the greatest influence in our children's lives or are their friends more influential?

All we can do is raise them knowing what scripture says, educate them and pray!

For the record, our only daughter got pregnant outside of marriage TWICE. Once at 18 and once at 25.



I agree, however too, having sex at a young age sends a wrong message when there are other opportunities as finishing your education and even going on to college, because once you have that life, the baby's father may or may not have anything to do with the mother because he does not care.

Yes, having a baby takes responsblity, but at 17, 14, or even 12 years old, that is too too young when they can have an education and make something out of themselves and wait for that right man to come along--here's another thought--I don't think the church is watching out for our young sisters enough because the parents don't care neither because they are too too busy making a life instead of looking out for their daughters.

And that is where Proverbs 3:5 come into play here, because when you are a parent, you have that charge by God to have that responbility to teach their children and then in turn, the children will remember what their parents taught them.



gaylel1 -> RE: Is Young Women Having Babies Sending A Wrong Message To Christian Women? (9/2/2008 11:31:50 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: zamdad

I don't know how we can see there is an increase in premarital sex. It seems like the OP is looking at headlines in the media and coming to the conclusion there must be more fornication. Fornication has been prevalent since the fall.

As to the question about holding each other accountable. When we, the church, are consuming more media than scripture, our minds are going to be shaped to look at life from a worldly perspective. Until we get into the word as individuals and build each other up to equip others to spend more time in the word, our shock and outrage is going to do nothing to fix anything.


Exactly, because parents are letting the "Idiot Box" be the prime authority instead of given their god-given charge.

But you hit it on the nose and that is we need to spend more time into God's word and be in prayer always.



dianetavegia -> RE: Is Young Women Having Babies Sending A Wrong Message To Christian Women? (9/2/2008 11:37:22 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: gaylel1
I agree, however too, having sex at a young age sends a wrong message when there are other opportunities as finishing your education and even going on to college, because once you have that life, the baby's father may or may not have anything to do with the mother because he does not care.

Yes, having a baby takes responsblity, but at 17, 14, or even 12 years old, that is too too young when they can have an education and make something out of themselves and wait for that right man to come along--here's another thought--I don't think the church is watching out for our young sisters enough because the parents don't care neither because they are too too busy making a life instead of looking out for their daughters.

And that is where Proverbs 3:5 come into play here, because when you are a parent, you have that charge by God to have that responbility to teach their children and then in turn, the children will remember what their parents taught them.


Gayle, having sex or going to college is not an either or for most of our youth. With birthcontrol easily available, for many or most, it's BOTH.

Girls getting pregnant is not because Christian parents don't care! I certainly cared! I was a virgin when I married and have remained married to that man for 38 years! I am a SAHM. Our four children have been taught that sex outside of marriage is a sin. What did the boys understand that the girl didn't?

We can try to protect and educate our children to what scripture says, but the choice is theirs. We have an extended relative who got the preacher's daughter (15) pregnant in the janitor's closet while her father was preaching. Both had left to go to the bathroom!



LCannon -> RE: Is Young Women Having Babies Sending A Wrong Message To Christian Women? (9/2/2008 1:13:22 PM)

At the risk of gross simplification(always dangerous!) 'protection and education...what scripture says' while not 'walking the walk' in practical sense to the extent of modeling a walk of obedience and sacrifice as a lifestyle of character is one key. BTW, the unwed father has equal, perhaps even greater responsibility. Family dynamics are unknowable even in the best of them; that's part of the beauty of any family, their potential.



gaylel1 -> RE: Is Young Women Having Babies Sending A Wrong Message To Christian Women? (9/2/2008 2:06:46 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LCannon

At the risk of gross simplification(always dangerous!) 'protection and education...what scripture says' while not 'walking the walk' in practical sense to the extent of modeling a walk of obedience and sacrifice as a lifestyle of character is one key. BTW, the unwed father has equal, perhaps even greater responsibility. Family dynamics are unknowable even in the best of them; that's part of the beauty of any family, their potential.


Sure, but daughters are often negected because they are left to fend for themselves, yet they are ignored. Boys usually has guidance because they have fathers, something the daughters should have too. And believe it or not, some daughters did not have the genuine love of a father because he was not present in her life, but they subsitute meeting someone in place of a father. And I'm not saying many daughters do not have fathers that care about them, but it is not present in a daughter's life. And this is why a lot of these girls do get pregnant because apparently the family unit has broken down and it is not only in single parent familes.



cow451 -> RE: Is Young Women Having Babies Sending A Wrong Message To Christian Women? (9/2/2008 2:32:55 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: gaylel1

quote:

ORIGINAL: LCannon

At the risk of gross simplification(always dangerous!) 'protection and education...what scripture says' while not 'walking the walk' in practical sense to the extent of modeling a walk of obedience and sacrifice as a lifestyle of character is one key. BTW, the unwed father has equal, perhaps even greater responsibility. Family dynamics are unknowable even in the best of them; that's part of the beauty of any family, their potential.


Sure, but daughters are often negected because they are left to fend for themselves, yet they are ignored. Boys usually has guidance because they have fathers, something the daughters should have too. And believe it or not, some daughters did not have the genuine love of a father because he was not present in her life, but they subsitute meeting someone in place of a father. And I'm not saying many daughters do not have fathers that care about them, but it is not present in a daughter's life. And this is why a lot of these girls do get pregnant because apparently the family unit has broken down and it is not only in single parent familes.


It's apparent this problem has not happened to anyone close to you. It's very easy to critique another family's "issues". Parents are prone to take (and be given) too much credit for their children's accomplishments and take (and be given) too much blame for their children's failures.



rcjames -> RE: Is Young Women Having Babies Sending A Wrong Message To Christian Women? (9/2/2008 2:44:52 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: gaylel1
Sure, but daughters are often negected because they are left to fend for themselves, yet they are ignored. Boys usually has guidance because they have fathers, something the daughters should have too. And believe it or not, some daughters did not have the genuine love of a father because he was not present in her life, but they subsitute meeting someone in place of a father. And I'm not saying many daughters do not have fathers that care about them, but it is not present in a daughter's life. And this is why a lot of these girls do get pregnant because apparently the family unit has broken down and it is not only in single parent familes.


There is no excuse for sin, no way, no how.

What shows the metal of a person is what they do when their sin that in done in darkness is shouted from the rooftops.

Thanks
RC



Liveloved -> RE: Is Young Women Having Babies Sending A Wrong Message To Christian Women? (9/2/2008 3:31:40 PM)

I don't think there is an increase in premarital sex. I think it's just become 'easier' to deal with it. Only many of the ways we muddy the waters and confuse ourselves.

But the Living Water is available to all and He will gladly wash away all of our sin. But we must first be honest and confess it.

That is what the church needs to lead in. . . honest, truthful confession of sin and the joy of knowing Jesus.



gaylel1 -> RE: Is Young Women Having Babies Sending A Wrong Message To Christian Women? (9/2/2008 3:51:25 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: cow451

quote:

ORIGINAL: gaylel1

quote:

ORIGINAL: LCannon

At the risk of gross simplification(always dangerous!) 'protection and education...what scripture says' while not 'walking the walk' in practical sense to the extent of modeling a walk of obedience and sacrifice as a lifestyle of character is one key. BTW, the unwed father has equal, perhaps even greater responsibility. Family dynamics are unknowable even in the best of them; that's part of the beauty of any family, their potential.


Sure, but daughters are often negected because they are left to fend for themselves, yet they are ignored. Boys usually has guidance because they have fathers, something the daughters should have too. And believe it or not, some daughters did not have the genuine love of a father because he was not present in her life, but they subsitute meeting someone in place of a father. And I'm not saying many daughters do not have fathers that care about them, but it is not present in a daughter's life. And this is why a lot of these girls do get pregnant because apparently the family unit has broken down and it is not only in single parent familes.


It's apparent this problem has not happened to anyone close to you. It's very easy to critique another family's "issues". Parents are prone to take (and be given) too much credit for their children's accomplishments and take (and be given) too much blame for their children's failures.



For your information, yes, I had two sisters who had children out of wedlock, and yes, they did marry their fathers. They are both divorced now because of other issues they faced and including spousal abuse.

I had neices who had children out of wedlock too.

I'm the only one who does not have any children and had been tempted to become an unwed mother, but I'm the only one in my family who broke the "cycle" because I did not think God did not want me saddled with someone alone, but he wanted me to wait till I get married. Unfortuantly, the husband passed away, however, I'm determined not to give in passon because everyone is "doing it"--even if you are middle aged, because it would be a bad example for my Christian walk.



GregandJenny -> RE: Is Young Women Having Babies Sending A Wrong Message To Christian Women? (9/2/2008 4:12:10 PM)

my mom told me and my sister something when we were in our teens. Don't look up to anyone unless you have a relationship with them. You don't know what is really going on to be able to look up to them.

I say that because to me it really doesn't matter what goes on in the media or who gets pregnant. everyone has their own struggles and sin them getting pregnant or whatnot shouldn't affect me.

G



zamdad -> RE: Is Young Women Having Babies Sending A Wrong Message To Christian Women? (9/2/2008 5:02:51 PM)

quote:

Sure, but daughters are often negected because they are left to fend for themselves, yet they are ignored. Boys usually has guidance because they have fathers, something the daughters should have too. And believe it or not, some daughters did not have the genuine love of a father because he was not present in her life, but they subsitute meeting someone in place of a father. And I'm not saying many daughters do not have fathers that care about them, but it is not present in a daughter's life. And this is why a lot of these girls do get pregnant because apparently the family unit has broken down and it is not only in single parent familes.


Gayle, I'm having a hard time following some of your train of thought here. You keep saying "the church" has an obligation, yet "the church" is comprised of men and women, boys and girls. "The church" needs to happen in the daily lives of these men, women and children within the family. Even then, there is no guarantee that our kids will make the right decisions, avoid the snares the world places before them.

A trend I have noticed during my brief lifetime is how females are changing. They are becoming more sexually agressive. I have seen this in the clients I worked with as a probation officer, I see it all too frequently as a police officer, and as the father of a 16 year old son I see girls sending photo's of themselves in provactive poses and throwing themselves at him. Many of these girls come from "respectable" families in the community. I have to ask, however, where is there influence coming from? From the family or their friends and the media?

As a dad, I speak with many parents in our area. Almost all of the parents I speak to say they know their children very well. yet, most of these parents don't know who their kids friends are. Most don't know what their kids have on the social networking accounts. Most parents are so busy trying to earn a living that their kids get second best, what's left over of them after they've earned a paycheck. And, as a parent I understand the struggle all too well.



gaylel1 -> RE: Is Young Women Having Babies Sending A Wrong Message To Christian Women? (9/2/2008 5:52:20 PM)

quote:

Gayle, I'm having a hard time following some of your train of thought here. You keep saying "the church" has an obligation, yet "the church" is comprised of men and women, boys and girls. "The church" needs to happen in the daily lives of these men, women and children within the family. Even then, there is no guarantee that our kids will make the right decisions, avoid the snares the world places before them.


Yes, the church, which is the body of believers has an obligation to our young people. The church as you say is comprised of humans. However, among the body of believers, mentorship should be encouraged. That means the older women should teach the younger women as it says in Titus, and the men should be teaching and mentoring the young men.

quote:

A trend I have noticed during my brief lifetime is how females are changing. They are becoming more sexually agressive. I have seen this in the clients I worked with as a probation officer, I see it all too frequently as a police officer, and as the father of a 16 year old son I see girls sending photo's of themselves in provactive poses and throwing themselves at him. Many of these girls come from "respectable" families in the community. I have to ask, however, where is there influence coming from? From the family or their friends and the media?


I believe both because young women turn to media sources such as MTV and other networks and peers because apperently the parents just don't care anymore what their children are doing. All parents care about is themselves and not concerned about what their minor children are doing. God gave parents responsibilities, but unfortnatly, there is no such thing as responsible parenting these days.

quote:

As a dad, I speak with many parents in our area. Almost all of the parents I speak to say they know their children very well. yet, most of these parents don't know who their kids friends are. Most don't know what their kids have on the social networking accounts. Most parents are so busy trying to earn a living that their kids get second best, what's left over of them after they've earned a paycheck. And, as a parent I understand the struggle all too well.


Exactly. And most children do not tell their parents until they find out, most cases fatally. Have people ever heard of the lines of communication? It should be a two way street with the parent and the child, especially if the child is under 18.



Sideways -> RE: Is Young Women Having Babies Sending A Wrong Message To Christian Women? (9/2/2008 9:02:32 PM)

From what I've been reading on the subject, the rates of teen pregnancy is actually dropping, but the abortion rates are dropping faster, giving the impression that more and more teen girls are getting pregnant.

I do kinda wish that a few of these high profile teen pregnancy cases would at least talk about adoption, which IMO, is usually the best option for a teen pregnant girl. I certainly approve of the fact that the girl is not getting an abortion, but getting married and raising a baby at 17? Sure it can be done, but it's insanely hard, and for the average Jane Smith, it often (but not always) means no post-high school education and a very low paying job.



TrustingGod -> RE: Is Young Women Having Babies Sending A Wrong Message To Christian Women? (9/2/2008 9:02:46 PM)

In the end, a person (child or adult) makes the decision for themselves.

We've taught our son (now 18) that sex before marriage is wrong. He's pledged himself to purity (I have it in writing). He submits himself to accountability (both parents ask him how he is doing with temptation). His girlfriend has pledged purity. We remind him to remember who he represents (God and family).

Is this enough? No. He has make the decision to remain pure every time he is tempted. It is harder today than ever - the media makes it so normal (even commercials are sexually charged).

As parents we HAVE to encourage, talk, teach, train, discuss, be open to hear them, and most of all, prayer However, if our child (minor or adult) makes a decision that is contrary to what we have taught, we need to be loving, patient, supportive and pray that they will turn their heart back to Jesus.

Sarah Palin is being a great mom in supporting her daughter. She wishes that Bristol had waited because she knows the tough road her daugther and future husband have ahead of them.



gaylel1 -> RE: Is Young Women Having Babies Sending A Wrong Message To Christian Women? (9/2/2008 9:25:38 PM)

I have another question and that is when these girls become parents at 14-17, are we as a society are encouraging bad behavior?



Tinkerbell_ -> RE: Is Young Women Having Babies Sending A Wrong Message To Christian Women? (9/2/2008 10:34:35 PM)

I don't think so. How Christ like would we be if we shunned a teenage girl just because she's pregnant? Mind you I have experience in this and it can truly make a bad situation worse. IF these girls make mistakes then they need to be shown love as well as consequences to their actions.

I think a lot of the more famous people don't opt for adoption because they can actually afford to take care of their children without a struggle. They can sing their music, or star in their movies for a few months of the year and then spend the rest of the time being mommy. It's financially easier on them and quite frankly that makes a HUGE difference.

Most people who opt for adoption do it because they can't afford it or the timing is off in their lives yet they don't want to have abortions.



zamdad -> RE: Is Young Women Having Babies Sending A Wrong Message To Christian Women? (9/2/2008 11:19:48 PM)

quote:

However, among the body of believers, mentorship should be encouraged. That means the older women should teach the younger women as it says in Titus, and the men should be teaching and mentoring the young men.


I don't disagree with you. But, why do we spend so much time and energy focusing on mentoring outside the family when we can't seem to do it within the family. Seems to me we should put out the fires in our own homes before rushing off to join the fire department.

Yes, the older men should teach the younger men and the older women the younger women. BUt again, if this is not happening in the home, it's not going to happen in the community or the congregation.

quote:

I believe both because young women turn to media sources such as MTV and other networks and peers because apperently the parents just don't care anymore what their children are doing. All parents care about is themselves and not concerned about what their minor children are doing. God gave parents responsibilities, but unfortnatly, there is no such thing as responsible parenting these days.


Sounds like we're in agreement. So, how do we, the church, encourage moms and dads to engage their kids; to mentor them; parent them?



PaleHawkWoman -> RE: Is Young Women Having Babies Sending A Wrong Message To Christian Women? (9/3/2008 12:20:12 AM)

In my family, if a child is old enough to ask a question, including about sex, then the child is old enough to hear the answer.

I taught my children about sex beginning when they were toddlers and asked where babies came from. The answers were geared to their age and level of understanding but factual. As they got older, the answers became more detailed. I used medical manuals and taught them about male and female anatomy and physiology, endocrinology(hormones), what constituted sexual activity, STD's, birth control, and conception and fetal development. We had very detailed discussions about social and moral responsibilities, the consequences of sexual activity- physical, spiritual, and emotional costs, basic ignorance about sex(the stuff your friends will tell you), and how to deal with peer pressure and sexual harassment. They knew good touch/bad touch before they hit kindergarten. I also let them know that I would listen to anything they had to ask or tell me, and even if I got mad that I was still their mom and I would love and respect them; I wanted to make sure that they felt safe enough to talk to me.

I have had people at church tell me that I shouldn't have taught my kids anything other than "sex outside marriage is wrong". Huh? What I did was to make sure that my children were armed with the facts so that they could make good choices and understand the consequences of making stupid ones. I did the same when talking about drugs and alcohol. To date, none of my kids got pregnant or got someone pregnant as teens. My younger daughter was married when she had her first child. My older daughter has no children. Neither of my sons want to become parents until they are married, and both are celibate. Nobody is drinking or doing drugs either.

Quite a few of the folks I've gone to church with-especially the "don't tell them and they won't do it" crowd- can't say the same.



SonInMe1 -> RE: Is Young Women Having Babies Sending A Wrong Message To Christian Women? (9/3/2008 8:29:55 AM)

I think what keeps people on the straight an narrow is knowing someone who has fallen...and seeing the problems it causes.

There are two ways to learn. Seeing someone making a mistake and avoiding it...or making a mistake and not doing it again.

People who do the same things over and over again expecting a different result define insanity.

Hey, sex is great fun, but there are consequences...and birth control? Only delays the pregnancy. I have seen it time and time again....two people living together saying they are on birth control and what happens? Pregnancy. Over...and over....and over again.

The Truth will set you free.



tracydolls -> RE: Is Young Women Having Babies Sending A Wrong Message To Christian Women? (9/3/2008 9:19:25 AM)

quote:

Quite a few of the folks I've gone to church with-especially the "don't tell them and they won't do it" crowd- can't say the same.



Pale,

I think we have to tell them. The Stork bringing the baby is a lie and it does not stop pregnancy.

I too am like you. I told them early. And often factually what happens.

This close our eyes and pretend it doesnt exist is down right silly.



PaleHawkWoman -> RE: Is Young Women Having Babies Sending A Wrong Message To Christian Women? (9/3/2008 9:47:14 AM)

SonInMe, yes I taught my children about birth control- including the fact that the only 100% sure method was abstinence. I had the wisdom to realize that teens will often rebel and do things they have been taught not to do, and I wanted my kids to at least know how to prevent an unplanned pregnancy or keep from contracting an STD. Again, they were taught that no method other than abstinence is fool-proof.

I used birth control as a wife to space my children 2-3 yrs apart. My 4th child was a BC failure as I was on the pill and contracted a sinus infection and forgot that antibiotics negate the effectiveness of the pill. After he was born, I had a tubal ligation/cauterization as I was done having children. We could not afford more children, the relationship was not a good one, and I feel it is irresponsible to keep having kids when you are not able to support them.

I may come under fire for this, but I think people on welfare should be forced to be on BC so they won't have any more children until they can afford to support their children themselves. Why should taxpayers have to foot the bill for someone's else's irresponsible behavior?

My children should have knowledge of BC methods so when they are married they and their spouses can plan their families. It is absolutely NOT healthy for a woman to have one child right after another and studies have shown that it is healthier not just for the mother but for the babies as well to space 18 mos-2yrs between the birth of a child and the conception of the next. At the very least, the mother should wait 1 yr from the birth of her last child before attemting to conceive the next one in order to give her body sufficient time to recover from childbirth so that she and the expected child will have fewer health problems. Any husband worth his salt would want what is best for the health and well-being of his wife and children.



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