RE: Is Young Women Having Babies Sending A Wrong Message To Christian Women?
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RE: Is Young Women Having Babies Sending A Wrong Messag... - 9/4/2008 1:24:57 AM
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SuccessinTruth
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We as parents have to accept responsibility for the basic teaching of our children. But as you all know, here comes the world. What we need is some Positive Reinforcement for good behavior. Remember the white wedding gown and what it meant and how important it was to have the right to wear it? How about the incredible gift that you give your spouse when you marry as a virgin? How about some music: a song about a man looking for a woman who's saved herself for him, making the honeymoon special. Where are the rest of the Brooke Shields'? Speak up!!! Let's do all we can to show our young people how wonderful it is to do the right thing! There is joy and many rewards in obeying God's will.
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RE: Is Young Women Having Babies Sending A Wrong Messag... - 9/4/2008 8:36:46 AM
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SonInMe1
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quote:
but there is just no good argument for deliberately not teaching teens about birth control - how it works, how it can fail, and how to use it properly to reduce the chances of failure.
I never did. No pregnancies
quote:
It is teaching them responsibility. If a person chooses to have sex, it is the responsible course to use birth control and other means to avoid STDs.
Teaching your children that having sex wether it is protected or not to me is the height of irresponsibility. The naswer is...no. 100%. No excuses. No outs. Abstenence..100%.
The consequences for sex are not just pregnancies and std's. ( I do not know why I have to explain this to...christians ) Coupling with anyone who is not your spouse ties you to them spiritually and the more people you have sex with, the more people you are tied to...and let me tell you...you would go insane.
To promote in any terms sex outside of marriage...protected or not...is anti-christian, immoral and a societal destructor. Hence...no need to teach my kids about birth control and when they are married and want to control their reproduction, as adults, they can find out how.
Really, what do you do, hand out condoms to your son and say...go have a good time?????
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You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
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RE: Is Young Women Having Babies Sending A Wrong Messag... - 9/4/2008 12:46:16 PM
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Sideways
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SonInMe1
Really, what do you do, hand out condoms to your son and say...go have a good time?????
I guess you really haven't been reading anyone's posts, so why are you still in this thread?
No one here has come even remotely close to saying that. No one here has said pre-martial sex should be promoted in any fashion. Everyone here has said that the only 100% safe method is abstinence. Many here have repeatedly said that there is much more to sex then just pregnancy and STD's.
We still believe in giving kids a comprehensive education. And if that's your best answer to our posts, then you're not even trying to read what we're saying.
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RE: Is Young Women Having Babies Sending A Wrong Messag... - 9/4/2008 1:52:01 PM
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PaleHawkWoman
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SonInMe, if you read my first post then you would have known that in teaching my children about sex, I taught them the moral part right along with the other. They understand that sex is a sacred act intended to be shared between a married couple, and that God has a reason for wanting us to abide by His plan for sex.
But we have to live in the world and after a certain age they will make their own decisions about whether or not they will follow the morals they have been taught. In providing comprehensive, medically-based information on the male and female body, conception and prenatal development, STD's, and contraceptive/prophilactic methods I am trying to make sure they understand the risks- including incurable diseases that will kill them- and how to protect themselves... first and foremost by NOT having sex. Should they choose to go on and have sex, then I want them to know how to protect themselves from unplanned pregnancies and disease.
I also want them to talk to me about it so that I can continue to offer them good counsel. A parent who cares and is approachable is the best protection a child can have.
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RE: Is Young Women Having Babies Sending A Wrong Messag... - 9/4/2008 2:27:44 PM
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3cappuccinosmom
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I'm curious about this "comprehensive" education. I suppose that's what my approach would be called, only I'm not impressed at all with the "protection" birth control provides, and I haven't run across any sex-ed stuff that goes into any detail on the failure rates of "protection". I think calling it protection gives false expectations. It is *attempted* protection which fails a good percentage of the time.
Our approach will be this--"Abstinence is the only acceptable sexual behavior before marriage. You may try to protect yourself if you sin, but you will be putting yourself at serious risk for disease, emotional problems, and becoming a parent out of wedlock. Here is what people try to use (insert list), and here are the rates of failure (insert stats). When you're an adult, you'll have to chose. While you're in our house, nobody will be subsidizing, supporting, or minimizing sexual sin in anyway and you will face the consequences of this kind of sin head on." I might even ask my parents to loan me one of their lovely picture filled disease books and have my teens take a gander at what venereal disease does to one's bits.  If they want to take the risk after that, they can make that choice, but they will be leaving my home and paying for their own "protection" having been taught by us that they are not actually "using protection" but taking a serious risk.
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RE: Is Young Women Having Babies Sending A Wrong Messag... - 9/4/2008 5:18:56 PM
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Sideways
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 3cappuccinosmom
I'm curious about this "comprehensive" education. I suppose that's what my approach would be called, only I'm not impressed at all with the "protection" birth control provides, and I haven't run across any sex-ed stuff that goes into any detail on the failure rates of "protection". I think calling it protection gives false expectations. It is *attempted* protection which fails a good percentage of the time.
Failure rates greatly depend on the user and on what you're trying to protect against. The better the protection is used, the lower the failure rate. So, there is no one failure rate, although I've seen some conservative groups give some insanely high failure rates.
I will try to find my info based on an medically-based source (i.e. not "True Love Waits"), and give them the failure rates from that.
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RE: Is Young Women Having Babies Sending A Wrong Messag... - 9/4/2008 7:18:57 PM
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GregandJenny
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whay are we turning this into another BC thread?
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RE: Is Young Women Having Babies Sending A Wrong Messag... - 9/4/2008 11:07:14 PM
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PaleHawkWoman
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 3cappuccinosmom
I'm curious about this "comprehensive" education. I suppose that's what my approach would be called, only I'm not impressed at all with the "protection" birth control provides, and I haven't run across any sex-ed stuff that goes into any detail on the failure rates of "protection". I think calling it protection gives false expectations. It is *attempted* protection which fails a good percentage of the time.
Our approach will be this--"Abstinence is the only acceptable sexual behavior before marriage. You may try to protect yourself if you sin, but you will be putting yourself at serious risk for disease, emotional problems, and becoming a parent out of wedlock. Here is what people try to use (insert list), and here are the rates of failure (insert stats). When you're an adult, you'll have to chose. While you're in our house, nobody will be subsidizing, supporting, or minimizing sexual sin in anyway and you will face the consequences of this kind of sin head on." I might even ask my parents to loan me one of their lovely picture filled disease books and have my teens take a gander at what venereal disease does to one's bits. If they want to take the risk after that, they can make that choice, but they will be leaving my home and paying for their own "protection" having been taught by us that they are not actually "using protection" but taking a serious risk.
I compiled the info myself from the American Medical Association manual for anatomy/physiology, endocrinology, pregnancy and gestational development, cytology(for diagrams/definitions of sperm, ovum, and zygote), and STD's. I also compiled the BC info from the AMA and US Dept of Health & Human Services database and Consumer Reports(yes,Consumer Reports rated effectiveness of most popular methods of BC's). The psychological effects of sex on adolescents was researched from several studies listed in Psychology Today and other trade journals of the American Psychiatric Association, as well as US H&HS data in behavioral/mental health issues. The moral/spiritual teaching came from the Bible and resources from Christian family counseling services. I also added my own personal observations and experiences.
Does young girls having babies send the wrong message to Christian women? Probably not women but it might send a wrong message to Christian girls unless they have parents who are actively involved with teaching and guiding their children to make appropriate choices on moral issues.
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RE: Is Young Women Having Babies Sending A Wrong Messag... - 9/5/2008 12:56:24 AM
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bboudrot
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They need to be taught what the Bible says at an early age (at least school age) about this subject. If they aren't they will learn the hard way how wrong it is. Also teaching them the gospel and their need for salvation at an early age will help a whole lot.
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RE: Is Young Women Having Babies Sending A Wrong Messag... - 9/5/2008 10:49:53 AM
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zamdad
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I also think the discussion about BC is relevant to the OP. We ahve taught our kids that abstinence is the only acceptble form. The only sure way to prevent pregnancy, STD's and all the emotional problems associated. Yet, it's not just discussing the do's and the don'ts with them, it's discussing the topic of sex and relationships open;y and directly with them.
For five years of my career I was supervising sex offenders and co-facilitating sex offender treatment. I learned things from my job that most parents never get the opportunity to learn. It became clear to me that, as a parent, my job was to build a relationship with my kids so that they could come talk to me about anything and everything so that they would never want to keep secrets from us. Also, to be able to discuss with them all the emotions that come with entering relationships with friends.
Another thing I have developed an opinion about with regard to the topic is that, all too often, we fail to discuss sex with children until they reach an appropriate age. Is this for their comfort or for our comfort? Seems to me that it more for the comfort of the parent than the child. I agree with Palehawkwoman, if they're old enough to ask, their old enough for an answer. We have to get over our own discomforts and talk with our kids as each little conversation is a trust builder. If our kids don't feel they can completely trust us, they will seek someone they think they can and they will engage in risky behavior.
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RE: Is Young Women Having Babies Sending A Wrong Messag... - 9/5/2008 1:10:03 PM
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fantom
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When will we stop trying to blame parents for their children's choices?
I was appalled to see that I was a Failure as a parent because one of my two children has made a decision to not live as a Christian, at least for now. I will admit I have failed as a parent at times.... I am not a FAILURE as a parent. If I was reading this without being confident of that, I think I would just give up and say why bother. I am already a failure.
Once reason, I think, that it seems that Christian teens getting pregnant is more common that the nonChristian down the street is a couple of things. The non-Christian is more likely to have an abortion and you never know about it AND/OR, the non-Christian couple may be planning their event and have the bc on hand where the Christian couple is less likely to plan the occurence and get caught up in the hormones.
No matter how much parents, the church and anyone else tells the kids about avoidance of possibility, of the myriad of consequences and all.... they are not likely to be "there" when the hormones rage and things happen. The kid is the one to decide what's going to happen and I have never heard of one calling his/her mom first and asking if it's ok!
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Whenever I'm about to do something, I think, "would an idiot do that?" and if they would, I do NOT do that thing"
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RE: Is Young Women Having Babies Sending A Wrong Messag... - 9/5/2008 4:15:42 PM
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PaleHawkWoman
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quote:
ORIGINAL: fantom
When will we stop trying to blame parents for their children's choices?
I was appalled to see that I was a Failure as a parent because one of my two children has made a decision to not live as a Christian, at least for now. I will admit I have failed as a parent at times.... I am not a FAILURE as a parent. If I was reading this without being confident of that, I think I would just give up and say why bother. I am already a failure.
Once reason, I think, that it seems that Christian teens getting pregnant is more common that the nonChristian down the street is a couple of things. The non-Christian is more likely to have an abortion and you never know about it AND/OR, the non-Christian couple may be planning their event and have the bc on hand where the Christian couple is less likely to plan the occurence and get caught up in the hormones.
No matter how much parents, the church and anyone else tells the kids about avoidance of possibility, of the myriad of consequences and all.... they are not likely to be "there" when the hormones rage and things happen. The kid is the one to decide what's going to happen and I have never heard of one calling his/her mom first and asking if it's ok!
Yeah, I have one of those too. She married at 18(never told us about it), and I had thrown her out of the house for her extremely disrespectful and disruptive behavior at age 17- she was verbally and physically abusive. Went into the Marines, which was fine, but after she came out on a disability she began to revert to old behaviors. One of my cousins, who was a police officer at the time, called me to let me know my child had been arrested for beating up some guy at a biker bar... where she had been drinking. She has been divorced, but was living with some guy before the divorce. Right now she is in school but she is not working and basically lives off relatives. She doesn't drink anymore or do do drugs, thank God.
I love her but I do not like how she treats others and do not agree with her lifestyle and views. She had the same upbringing as the other 3 children, but chose to take the path she's on. She knows I do not approve of a lot of things she does, and I will not subsidize her, but I have never stopped loving her.
Did I fail as a parent? No. Like anyone else, I had my triumphs and failures, my good days and bad ones, my strengths and weaknesses, my talents and ineptitudes as a parent. Are ther things I wish I could go back and change? You bet, but we only get the one shot, so I remember and learn.
No child is a "designer" child, and no family(well no normal family) is comprised of cookie-cutter members. Every individual is just that- individual. The best any parent can do is raise up their children in the way they should go, as directed by Scripture, provide them with the skills to develop into able adults, and let them leave the nest when the time comes. There will always be the child who will go his or her own way regardless of how well raised he/she has been, and there are people who will choose to live lives that are immoral, impulsive, irresponsible, or what have you despite all of the good intentions and instruction provided by their families. Parents cannot be blamed when, after all their efforts to raise their child up right, the child decides to go it wrong. The blame is upon the child.
So fantom, never mind the criticism. Hand your detractors a stone and your shoes. If they can say they have never made mistakes or sinned, and that their children are absolutely perfect and have never made mistakes or sinned, they can throw the stone at you. Otherwise, have them walk a mile in your shoes before they criticize you the next time.
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RE: Is Young Women Having Babies Sending A Wrong Messag... - 9/6/2008 1:03:57 AM
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gaylel1
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bboudrot
They need to be taught what the Bible says at an early age (at least school age) about this subject. If they aren't they will learn the hard way how wrong it is. Also teaching them the gospel and their need for salvation at an early age will help a whole lot.
Yes, I agree, but we cannot be w/our children 24-7. It should(the teaching) not stop neither at school age, but when these kids reach middle and high school age because those ages are crucial because they see all the images on televison and other media including the internet.
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RE: Is Young Women Having Babies Sending A Wrong Messag... - 9/6/2008 2:12:10 AM
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bboudrot
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This is why the Bible says "Train up a child". Just teaching or telling them what to do or not or what's right or wrong doesn't help. It won't make your child perfect but I've seen families in our day where they watched little TV and usually good wholesome shows and had things like TV Guardian and filters on the internet. The parents also know who their friends are. This is very important. Bad friends can do more than TV ever will to get children to turn against their parents. Also praying and reading the Bible together as a family help a great deal. In the families I've seen where this has happened the children have all turned out right as adults.
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RE: Is Young Women Having Babies Sending A Wrong Messag... - 9/6/2008 3:18:41 AM
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Thessa
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quote:
ORIGINAL: gaylel1
Since Sarah Palin's daughter announced to the country that she is pregnant and others such as Ashlee Simpson and Jamie Lynn Spears are keeping their babies, I believe that we are seeing an increace in having sex before marriage and even marrying the fathers, which is an honorable thing to do. However, with an increase in this, in my opinion, it sends a message and a bad one because it influence those who are vunable and does not know any better that it is all right to have sex before marriage, which I think it is very, very sad.
Have us as parents, teachers, youth leaders have done enough to hold on to folks virgninity and not do what these people has done? Because these young people are not our role models and that we need to do a better job to protect our Christian sisters.
What do you think?
How do i say this right...?
Some people are just - - - mindless. For lack of a better word.
If someone decides to get pregnant ONLY because Jamie Lynn or Bristol did so then they have bigger problems than just getting pregnant.
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For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
John 3:16
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RE: Is Young Women Having Babies Sending A Wrong Messag... - 9/6/2008 8:14:41 AM
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Prairiehiker
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There is no guarantee that educating them and giving them all the spiritual guidance that the teens today will not engage in sex. The only way you can prevent Kids from having absolutely no sex at all is to lock your kid in the basement and never let them see the light of day. Or You can live like the Amish communities do, but I think even then, I"m sure kids pregnant in those communities. Kids are having sex earlier and earlier. Just look at the stats. It's not a even a big deal to them.
You can't watch them 24/7. The reality is, You can teach them all your morals, but they will make their own decisions. You don't want them pregnant, but if they do, that responsibility is theirs.You'd hope it wouldn't happen, but I'm realistic.
If You leave in the real world, You know that the culture has a huge influence in the Kids. Are these women in the spotlight bad influence? Of course they are. They are the trend setter. They are who makes what cool. If they can show that pregnancy isn't a big deal, or it's wonderful, then the rest of the Kids Will think it's cool. Let's face it; Hollywood is the leader. That's were the culture takes it's cue. Will the church ever have that great of an influence on Kids? I don't think so. Even Kids brought up in a church Will try to prove their independence. They'll try to find their own way. You can't watch them 24/7. The reality is, You can teach them all your morals, but they will make their own decisions. You don't want them pregnant, but if they do, that responsibility is theirs.You'd hope it wouldn't happen, but I'm realistic, If they get pregnant in the process, the church isn't to blame. Maybe the parents can take some of the blame, but even then, parents can only educate and guide. Kids have to be held accountable for their decisions.
Blame Hollywood? How? What's the point?
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And saves such as have a contrite spirit.........Psalm 34:18
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RE: Is Young Women Having Babies Sending A Wrong Messag... - 9/6/2008 3:22:24 PM
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gaylel1
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What is a wholesome, clean televison show these days? If you are thinking "Family Guy" or "Gossip Girl," forget it because these kids think that these shows reenforce positive messages, but unfortnatly, they do not.
Even in the best Christian families, you can do everything to tell children, but when they become of teen-age years. they are influenced by their freinds and what they see on the televison and even the media because it is available.
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RE: Is Young Women Having Babies Sending A Wrong Messag... - 9/6/2008 4:21:14 PM
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GregandJenny
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Gayle I am not sure what you are trying to get at in your previous post.
G
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RE: Is Young Women Having Babies Sending A Wrong Messag... - 9/6/2008 5:42:46 PM
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GregandJenny
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quote:
Now the even simpler news is that God knows we are sinners and has made a way where there seemed to be none!!
His name is Jesus!!
AMEN
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It does not have to be well with my circumstance to be well with my soul!
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RE: Is Young Women Having Babies Sending A Wrong Messag... - 9/6/2008 5:59:37 PM
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Liveloved
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quote:
It seems like everyone is on this band wagon lately to blame someone else for their faults.
I sinned because of
A. Too much TV
B. Too much peer pressure
C. My parents worked
D. My parents didn't work
And so on and so on ad nauseum.
Point blank.
People sin.
(Newsflash-- Kids, teens, young adults are all people!)
Was that too simple?
Probably for some, but for the majority it is just that clear.
Now the even simpler news is that God knows we are sinners and has made a way where there seemed to be none!!
His name is Jesus!!
Excellent point! But what is lacking is a confessional church---people who not only nod their heads (like dashboard dogs) to the fact that we are sinners but openly and willingly confess our sin. If we as the parents would do this, I think our kids would begin to grasp the reality of Jesus, living and walking in truth.
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RE: Is Young Women Having Babies Sending A Wrong Messag... - 9/6/2008 8:50:11 PM
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gaylel1
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Liveloved
quote:
It seems like everyone is on this band wagon lately to blame someone else for their faults.
I sinned because of
A. Too much TV
B. Too much peer pressure
C. My parents worked
D. My parents didn't work
And so on and so on ad nauseum.
Point blank.
People sin.
(Newsflash-- Kids, teens, young adults are all people!)
Was that too simple?
Probably for some, but for the majority it is just that clear.
Now the even simpler news is that God knows we are sinners and has made a way where there seemed to be none!!
His name is Jesus!!
Excellent point! But what is lacking is a confessional church---people who not only nod their heads (like dashboard dogs) to the fact that we are sinners but openly and willingly confess our sin. If we as the parents would do this, I think our kids would begin to grasp the reality of Jesus, living and walking in truth.
Thank you!!
If people truly repented before God, obeyed him and truly make an effort to follow him, and not play with this world, they can deal with things and temptation which the enemy puts upon them. Yes, it is a very good point, though...
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RE: Is Young Women Having Babies Sending A Wrong Messag... - 9/6/2008 10:56:53 PM
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bboudrot
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quote:
ORIGINAL: gaylel1
What is a wholesome, clean televison show these days? If you are thinking "Family Guy" or "Gossip Girl," forget it because these kids think that these shows reenforce positive messages, but unfortnatly, they do not.
Even in the best Christian families, you can do everything to tell children, but when they become of teen-age years. they are influenced by their freinds and what they see on the televison and even the media because it is available.
Well there's always DVDs of past shows. One show that's on DVD now that was popular in the 1990s is actually a Canadian show called Road to Avonlea. I knew girls who used to go to my church that were big fans of the show and even some boys watched the show. It did air in the United States as well but Americans may not be as familiar with it. Well known actors such as Christopher Reeve (who was on it before his horse accident) however have been on the show at least once. There may be other shows like this but if your children (even young teens) haven't seen this show I'd recommend it despite the fact that is based on a different era. The only other option I can think of is to either get rid of the TV or only watch the news (and even that's not always good).
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