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RE: Is Obama's Faith Truly Christian? - 9/2/2008 5:39:33 PM
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tafkam
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Mccain doesn't trumpet faith the way Obama tries to.
And I'm sorry, but even Scripture says that many will call Him Lord and He will say depart for I never knew you.
I have a very hard time buying someone as a Christian who so blatantly disregards what the Bible has to say....
_____________________________
"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.' - Ronald Reagan
Tafkam
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RE: Is Obama's Faith Truly Christian? - 9/2/2008 5:50:41 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5511
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quote:
ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc
The way Obama used it, "Homosexuality" does not describe a set of actions, thus it is not sinful, since sin by its very nature constitutes a physical action or an action of the heart.
Are you saying that Mr. Obama supports the non-sinful version of homosexuality? Whatever that is...
The church Mr. Obama sat in for 20 year recognizes same sex unions... If you wish to believe those unions represent homosexuals that lives together and yet didn't act on their desires in a sexual manner you certainly have the right to express such an opinion yet I will excercise my right to point out the fallacy of that belief as well the one that somehow Mr. Obama only supports the "good" homosexuals.
quote:
Well, even if you're right, and Calvin sits at the left hand of the father, we really don't know who is destined to be saved. So for all human purposes, everyone is loved by God.
Without a doubt God knows who was going to hell before creation itself... So if your intellectual side wishes to believe God loves everyone by all means, but it ain't so according to His word..
quote:
You still also haven't addressed John 3:16.
Actually I have...
Psalms 5:5 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.
Psalms 11:5 The Lord trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth.
quote:
God is an intellectual, as well. (Why do we have Ecclesiastes?) It's sort of like asking people why they care about finance if their job is to be an accountant. Neither Christianity nor reason are contradictory, since both lead to truth.
They both don't lead to the truth... Evident by your attempt to make Mr. Obama's stance on homosexuality something other than it is... Man's reasoning, secular reasoning is in conflict with God's word...
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And someone else can't discern the use of fascetiousness to convey a point (that there are Biblical verses that are negative towards alcohol, but not a single verse that mentions anything close to abortion.)
Nice try but I am not buying it... Any mention of murder and injustice relates to abortion, unless you can conjure up just cause to take life in the womb...
quote:
"Homosexuality" as Obama used the term- (being gay) is not a sin. Sex outside of biblical marriage is a sin. Obama has neither suggested that our understanding of marriage should be altered nor that sex outside of marriage is acceptable.
http://www.ontheissues.org/senate/Barack_Obama.htm
Being gay or lesbian is not a choice. (Nov 2007) <---- Lie #1
Homosexuality no more immoral than heterosexuality. (Oct 2007) <---- Lie #2
Let each denominations decide on recognizing gay marriage. (Jul 2007)
The church he was in for 20 years does recognizing gay marriage or unions, whatever the word is for two people of the same sex pretending they are married...
Opposes gay marriage; supports civil union & gay equality. (Oct 2006)
Support for civil unions is support for sex outside of marriage...
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 29:12 If a ruler hearken to lies, all his servants are wicked.
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RE: Is Obama's Faith Truly Christian? - 9/2/2008 5:54:38 PM
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Thessa
Posts: 811
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tafkam
Mccain doesn't trumpet faith the way Obama tries to.
And I'm sorry, but even Scripture says that many will call Him Lord and He will say depart for I never knew you.
I have a very hard time buying someone as a Christian who so blatantly disregards what the Bible has to say....
Agreed.
And usually more often than not - when a person tries to trumpet faith its usually because they have none.
What Obama is doing is trying to get votes from Christians. Thats all hes doing. And once he has some of them i doubt we will ever hear the word God mentioned at all.
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RE: Is Obama's Faith Truly Christian? - 9/2/2008 5:58:26 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5511
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quote:
ORIGINAL: HannahElizabeth
Right here:
Obama's response to Rick Warren's question as to what Christianity means to him:
"As a starting point, it means I believe in – that Jesus Christ died for my sins, and that I am redeemed through him. That is a source of strength and sustenance on a daily basis."
Lip service... Shallow words from a shallow man attempting to ride into the White House on the backs of murdered unborn children...
quote:
Stop judging this man over two issues. As far as we know, he is not a homosexual, and he hasn't aborted a child.
From a position of authority he supports and uses the above mentioned sinful agendas to gain and maintain his position of power. He claims Christ so therefore he is subject to judgment according to what he claims to believe...
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 29:12 If a ruler hearken to lies, all his servants are wicked.
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RE: Is Obama's Faith Truly Christian? - 9/2/2008 8:48:16 PM
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chrisovery
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i agree that obama is setting off a lot of lip service, and mccain is all about the oil. this is the reason he picked palin as his vp. the last thing we need is either one of these 2 in office. mccain will keep us in war over oilo just as bush has, and obama is going to try to make the whole world on his side. if it makes everyone else feel good and sounds great to their ears then thats what i will tell them. the smooth tongue of a viper sets men into many traps of the enemy.
_____________________________
It is utterly impossible to govern a nation with out the Lord Jesus Christ and the bible.
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RE: Is Obama's Faith Truly Christian? - 9/2/2008 8:57:33 PM
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rcamejo01
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are we supposed to reason or give in?
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In your prayers, please remember my sister Liz, if you havent heard: http://caringbridge.org/visit/lizettecano
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RE: Is Obama's Faith Truly Christian? - 9/2/2008 9:07:16 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5511
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcamejo01
are we supposed to reason or give in?
Ok... How many murdered unborn children is acceptable? At the moment about 3500 are put to death daily... Is 1750 reasonable?
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 29:12 If a ruler hearken to lies, all his servants are wicked.
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RE: Is Obama's Faith Truly Christian? - 9/3/2008 1:05:09 AM
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HannahElizabeth
Posts: 52
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quote:
quote:
ORIGINAL: tafkam
Mccain doesn't trumpet faith the way Obama tries to.
And I'm sorry, but even Scripture says that many will call Him Lord and He will say depart for I never knew you.
I have a very hard time buying someone as a Christian who so blatantly disregards what the Bible has to say....
So do I. But I don't put Obama in this category. I think he has shown evidence of thinking deeply about what God has to say about many issues.
And of course McCain doesn't trumpet his faith. How can he trumpet what he shows no evidence of having?
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Agreed.
And usually more often than not - when a person tries to trumpet faith its usually because they have none.
What Obama is doing is trying to get votes from Christians. Thats all hes doing. And once he has some of them i doubt we will ever hear the word God mentioned at all.
Interesting. Obama was involved in urban ministry way back in his college years, but it was all a ploy to become president of the United States. He was counting the votes, not putting his faith into action. Thanks for clarifying.
This is what I do not understand, and I'm really trying. Why are Christians more willing to cast their vote for a person who cannot articulate his faith over a man who at least is struggling with God's word on his faith journey?
quote:
quote:
ORIGINAL: HannahElizabeth
Right here:
Obama's response to Rick Warren's question as to what Christianity means to him:
"As a starting point, it means I believe in – that Jesus Christ died for my sins, and that I am redeemed through him. That is a source of strength and sustenance on a daily basis."
Lip service... Shallow words from a shallow man attempting to ride into the White House on the backs of murdered unborn children...
I don't think there is a politician alive who is going to be able to overturn Roe v. Wade. Obama has come out and said that he's not for abortion, but he realizes that he can't force that viewpoint on others while governing. I don't believe John McCain thinks he can overturn Roe v. Wade - he's just towing the party line.
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RE: Is Obama's Faith Truly Christian? - 9/3/2008 1:22:32 AM
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Thessa
Posts: 811
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quote:
Interesting. Obama was involved in urban ministry way back in his college years, but it was all a ploy to become president of the United States. He was counting the votes, not putting his faith into action. Thanks for clarifying.
Well i tried too, but you still dont understand.
quote:
This is what I do not understand, and I'm really trying. Why are Christians more willing to cast their vote for a person who cannot articulate his faith over a man who at least is struggling with God's word on his faith journey?
Everything Obama has said has contradicted his faith in God. He has said that Jesus isnt the only way to salvation, he has mocked the bible. Everything he is supporting is against the bible. Everything.
Struggling? Id say thats an understatement.
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RE: Is Obama's Faith Truly Christian? - 9/3/2008 1:25:21 AM
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ManimalX
Posts: 1272
Joined: 10/25/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: chrisovery
mccain will keep us in war over oilo just as bush has,
That is, assuming that your assumption that we are at war "over oil" is true, which it isn't. Wait... do you believe that the government plotted 9/11 and that the lunar landing was staged? Because if you do then I humbly withdraw from discussion with you.
_____________________________
"But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a roar, and the heavenly bodies will be burned up and dissolved, and the earth and the works that are done on it will be exposed." - 2nd Peter 3:10
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RE: Is Obama's Faith Truly Christian? - 9/3/2008 1:49:44 AM
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gigigirrl
Posts: 83
Joined: 3/27/2006
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This is an article that I found and read a long time ago. I think it is a comprehesive and articulate article. I encourage you to read it - since it seeks to answer this question.
Sheep or Goat?
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RE: Is Obama's Faith Truly Christian? - 9/3/2008 1:52:53 AM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5511
Joined: 4/15/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: HannahElizabeth
I don't think there is a politician alive who is going to be able to overturn Roe v. Wade.
It was politicians and their appointments that somehow made it law so I don't believe you are correct since it's understood that it can be overturned. If you are saying there are no politicians of sound character that will seek to reverse you may be correct... Regardless, there is no just cause to support the murder of the unborn, and to do so from the place of authority ordained by God to deal with evil only compounds the sin...
quote:
Obama has come out and said that he's not for abortion, but he realizes that he can't force that viewpoint on others while governing.
More lip service... He's for abortion... That cannot be talked around... The qualification that he realizes that he can't force that viewpoint on others while governing doesn't absolve him from the sinful nature surrounding abortion in the realm of what is right and wrong as it pertains to God's law. Of course man's law seemingly make it's ok, but that only takes one so far and since the man claims Christ he is subject to more scrutiny regarding his actions. As stated prior, there is the issue of supporting evil from the place of authority ordained by God to deal with evil...
quote:
I don't believe John McCain thinks he can overturn Roe v. Wade - he's just towing the party line.
I don't necessarily disagree with you....
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 29:12 If a ruler hearken to lies, all his servants are wicked.
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RE: Is Obama's Faith Truly Christian? - 9/3/2008 2:24:48 AM
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Thessa
Posts: 811
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quote:
ORIGINAL: gigigirrl
This is an article that I found and read a long time ago. I think it is a comprehesive and articulate article. I encourage you to read it - since it seeks to answer this question.
Sheep or Goat?
Great article. I especially hooked onto this
He explains that he probably would have remained apart from any faith, “had it not been for the particular attributes of the historically black church, attributes that helped me shed some of my skepticism and embrace the Christian faith.”
And this
“I am not willing to have the state deny American citizens a civil union that confers equivalent rights on such basic matters as hospital visitation or health insurance coverage simply because the people they love are of the same sex—nor am I willing to accept a reading of the Bible that considers an obscure line in Romans to be more defining of Christianity than the Sermon on the Mount.”
And especially this
“I thought of Sasha, asking me once what happened when we die— ‘I don’t want to die, Daddy,” she had added matter-of-factly—and I hugged her and said, ‘You’ve got a long way to go before you have to worry about that,’ which seemed to satisfy her. I wondered whether I should have told her the truth, that I wasn’t sure what happens when we die, any more than I was sure where the soul resides or what existed before the Big Bang.”
Thank you for posting this. Its even more of an eye-opener than what i already knew.
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RE: Is Obama's Faith Truly Christian? - 9/3/2008 7:09:39 AM
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dinomax55
Posts: 237
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From: O-H-I-O
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This is what can't stand.. We Christians love to sit in our armchairs and judge other people, while ignoring whatever is going on in our lives.. I wish you guys could see how we come off as such hypocrites! My non-Christian friends keep harping on this fact, and it is difficult to respond to them, because so many Christians are like this.. We really need to clean up our own houses before we start judging others!
_____________________________
We can never achieve perfection.. but if we chase perfection we will catch excellence.
-Vince Lombardi
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RE: Is Obama's Faith Truly Christian? - 9/3/2008 7:15:41 AM
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dinomax55
Posts: 237
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From: O-H-I-O
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My prayer is that Obama, McCain, et al will find their hope in Christ, and I will leave it at that. What's between a man and his God is between a man and his God, and does not involve anyone else.
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RE: Is Obama's Faith Truly Christian? - 9/3/2008 7:18:04 AM
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blue1914
Posts: 398
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: rcamejo01
are we supposed to reason or give in?
Ok... How many murdered unborn children is acceptable? At the moment about 3500 are put to death daily... Is 1750 reasonable?
And how many will be acceptable when a foreign nation such as China is setting public policy by fiat and forcing women to have abortions for "family planning"? The stakes for this election are much higher than some token legislation which MAY or MAY NOT curb a practice that is going nowhere. In the over 30 years that abortion has been legal, we've seen majority Republican executive, legislative AND judicial branches in power at the federal level-often concurrently and guess what-WE'RE STILL HAVING ABORTIONS. If you want to drink the "right" kool-aid that there is such as thing as "pro-life" in today's political arena, go right ahead. In reality, the closest thing we have seen come out of Washington (and most state governments as well) is "a little less pro choice". No one yet has stood up and made MEANINGFUL legislation and lobbied for it's passage that will end the practice-why-because they don't want to upset their constituency.
You may respond as many do "well, there's little they can realistically do" and I have to be reminded of the example of Wilberforce in England. When he campaigned to end slavery in the British Empire, he was ALONE-his citizenry was against him, his government was against him, big business was against him and yet he fought on at great personal sacrifice until it ended. THAT is the type of leadership that would bring about an end to something like abortion-and that just does not exist in Washington today-on the "left" or the "right".
So, if abortion is off the table (since any methods to curtail it are simply cheap tricks to keep the "base" engaged), what comes next-fiscal conservatism? We have seen through the last 20 years of largely Republican administrations a QUADRUPLING of the national debt with one of the biggest growing sectors being our debt to foreign nations that currently must be repaid. Is ANYONE looking at that?-so far, the only candidate of any note that I've seen even speak on it is Mr. Ron Paul and he is ushered to the sidelines of the Republican party.
So keep your passion if you would like-I would just like to set the record straight-our "moral, upstanding, fiscally conservative" party of the "right" has of late shown itself to be a quite a bit less than that.
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RE: Is Obama's Faith Truly Christian? - 9/3/2008 8:15:41 AM
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chrisovery
Posts: 152
Joined: 10/6/2007
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manimalX, i do not believe that 9/11 was or was not set up by our government. what i do know is that al quieda has truly not been sought after. we are still at war in iraq trying to control them rather than going after the so called conspiraters of 9/11. it is quite funny that how much people are trying to back the president of the us up or even the government here, with all their lies and coniving,manipulating,controlling,wicked ways. most of them do it because of the fact that authority in christianity is falsely taught.
alright so are all of us in agreement that either president we go with is going to cause a lot of death.
_____________________________
It is utterly impossible to govern a nation with out the Lord Jesus Christ and the bible.
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RE: Is Obama's Faith Truly Christian? - 9/3/2008 9:02:31 AM
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huskarine
Posts: 444
Joined: 7/31/2008
From: Wheaton, IL
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: dinomax55
This is what can't stand.. We Christians love to sit in our armchairs and judge other people, while ignoring whatever is going on in our lives.. I wish you guys could see how we come off as such hypocrites! My non-Christian friends keep harping on this fact, and it is difficult to respond to them, because so many Christians are like this.. We really need to clean up our own houses before we start judging others!
agreed, but on one exception: we are still called to be voters, a responsible steward of that one vote. you better know whom you are voting for.
yes, we shouldn't judge, but rather be informed. remember, law should come from morality. and then we have to decide where morality comes from. if we ignore that, well, then it is like castrating the geldings and bidding them to be fruitful. the whole point of discovering a candidate is to find how close to the judeo-christian morality (the one that represents the Bible) can they get. this is why the fruit matters. this is why we need to know what they believe. it's all for voting purposes, not judging, lest ye be judged. there's your answer.
_____________________________
"Success is equated with excess/the ambition for excess wrecks us/as the top of the mind becomes the bottom line/when success is equated with excess" -Switchfoot "American Dream"
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RE: Is Obama's Faith Truly Christian? - 9/3/2008 12:13:06 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5511
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: blue1914
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: rcamejo01
are we supposed to reason or give in?
Ok... How many murdered unborn children is acceptable? At the moment about 3500 are put to death daily... Is 1750 reasonable?
And how many will be acceptable when a foreign nation such as China is setting public policy by fiat and forcing women to have abortions for "family planning"? The stakes for this election are much higher than some token legislation which MAY or MAY NOT curb a practice that is going nowhere. In the over 30 years that abortion has been legal, we've seen majority Republican executive, legislative AND judicial branches in power at the federal level-often concurrently and guess what-WE'RE STILL HAVING ABORTIONS. If you want to drink the "right" kool-aid that there is such as thing as "pro-life" in today's political arena, go right ahead. In reality, the closest thing we have seen come out of Washington (and most state governments as well) is "a little less pro choice". No one yet has stood up and made MEANINGFUL legislation and lobbied for it's passage that will end the practice-why-because they don't want to upset their constituency.
You may respond as many do "well, there's little they can realistically do" and I have to be reminded of the example of Wilberforce in England. When he campaigned to end slavery in the British Empire, he was ALONE-his citizenry was against him, his government was against him, big business was against him and yet he fought on at great personal sacrifice until it ended. THAT is the type of leadership that would bring about an end to something like abortion-and that just does not exist in Washington today-on the "left" or the "right".
So, if abortion is off the table (since any methods to curtail it are simply cheap tricks to keep the "base" engaged), what comes next-fiscal conservatism? We have seen through the last 20 years of largely Republican administrations a QUADRUPLING of the national debt with one of the biggest growing sectors being our debt to foreign nations that currently must be repaid. Is ANYONE looking at that?-so far, the only candidate of any note that I've seen even speak on it is Mr. Ron Paul and he is ushered to the sidelines of the Republican party.
So keep your passion if you would like-I would just like to set the record straight-our "moral, upstanding, fiscally conservative" party of the "right" has of late shown itself to be a quite a bit less than that.
My stance against abortion isn't to shore up the failure of any party to resolve the issue... I don't believe we can ever got the secular world to see it for what it is, but I would like to think those who claim Christ can be swayed to see for the evil it is...
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 29:12 If a ruler hearken to lies, all his servants are wicked.
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RE: Is Obama's Faith Truly Christian? - 9/3/2008 2:57:51 PM
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AboundinginHisGrace
Posts: 403
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quote:
ORIGINAL: saved9201
quote:
ORIGINAL: Thessa
quote:
ORIGINAL: saved9201
quote:
ORIGINAL: Thessa
Obama went to that church for 20 years! Theres no way on Earth a person can go to a church for 20 years and not have any idea what they stand for. Obama lied to everyone. And they believed him.
I think the only reason Obama is saying hes a Christian is because he thinks it will sway more people to vote for him. Well im not being fooled. His true colors are starting to blind me.
The Messiah, B. Hussein O., The Wicked Unrighteous Ruler, is NOT a Truly Christian. McCain is. In fact, democrats are NOT Truly Christians and Republicans are. So it is written, so it shall be.
Can we move on now? Or do we need 10 more threads, asking the same question in different ways, to hammer this point in?
- Julius
Just a plain ol' Christian
This thread is about is he a Christian so if you dont wanna discuss it then you probably shouldnt.
_________________________
Btw if anyone would tell me what kind of a Christian dosent believe that Jesus is the only way to salvation...id like to know. Because Obama dosent believe its the only way. He thinks that people go to Heaven if they dont believe in Him at all. Is that a Christian? NOPE.
Excuse me but this thread is about him being a "Truly Christian." He, just like I, said he accepted Jesus Christ as his Lord and Savior. But according to many of the good people here, that doesn't make him a Truly Christian. In order to be a Truly Christian, you must be a republican. You must have a thorough understanding and acceptance of your interpretation of scripture and you must go to the right church that doesn't meanmouth white people, America, Elvis, and all other things good and pure. I'm just a plain ol' Christian, and as far as I can tell, so is The Messiah, B. Hussein O., The Wicked Unrighteous Ruler.
- Julius
You WILL know them by their fruits.......
_____________________________
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.
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RE: Is Obama's Faith Truly Christian? - 9/3/2008 3:14:22 PM
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HannahElizabeth
Posts: 52
Joined: 5/7/2006
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quote:
Great article. I especially hooked onto this
He explains that he probably would have remained apart from any faith, “had it not been for the particular attributes of the historically black church, attributes that helped me shed some of my skepticism and embrace the Christian faith.”
I don't see why this is condemning of his faith. I have been to many churches. One I attended is particularly focused on winning the souls of young adults, as is reflected in its music, the jeans the pastors wear, the language used in sermons, the pop culture references, etc. Because they try to meet people where they are, many skeptics have come to Christ.
Think about your church. I don't know what attributes draw you in, but if you really think about it, you are probably drawn to it because it speaks to your culture, how you are built. If you think of the church you attended when you received Christ, was there anything about it that made you feel closer to the Lord? I believe He loves us so much, He will put circumstances in place to meet us where we are.
quote:
And this
“I am not willing to have the state deny American citizens a civil union that confers equivalent rights on such basic matters as hospital visitation or health insurance coverage simply because the people they love are of the same sex—nor am I willing to accept a reading of the Bible that considers an obscure line in Romans to be more defining of Christianity than the Sermon on the Mount.”
The writer of this conservative blog followed up Obama's statement with this:
It is clear that Obama uses his own human criteria for what he will believe and what he won’t believe. This is unacceptable to Evangelicals. The Word of God instructs us; we do not instruct it. We conform to God’s Word; God’s Word does not conform to us.
We all use our own human criteria for what we will believe or we won't believe. It is just that some of us - and I include myself in this at times - will not question anything that goes outside of what we have been taught through our own traditions and cultural values. We insist that the way that we interpret scripture is the only way, and we have no room for divergent thought.
What I read here is that Obama believes that the passage in Romans (clearly, not obscurely, in my opinion) condemning homosexuality does not negate the totality of the Sermon on the Mount, which he thinks addresses the rights of gays and, just in general, where Christ hopes we will focus our energies. Whether or not we agree with him on all that - and I DON'T - it's his interpretation. And I guess what I am saying is that I would rather vote for someone who struggles with and thinks through faith issues, than someone who does whatever he wants, lives however he wants, and then follows the party line to get elected.
It pains me to say these things, because I am so very against homosexuality not being seen as the sin it is. But at the same time, I believe there is room in God's house for people to differ on issues and still be His children. I just don't think God is going to send Barack Obama to hell for not denying gays health insurance.
From what we know about his background, that he grew up with such divergent religious and social viewpoints, it is a MIRACLE that he found Jesus. And he's struggling. It's a journey, and I don't begrudge him it.
We all pick and choose scripture - that is why we have denominations, where people who all believe a certain way go to feel affirmed in their faith journeys.
quote:
And especially this
“I thought of Sasha, asking me once what happened when we die— ‘I don’t want to die, Daddy,” she had added matter-of-factly—and I hugged her and said, ‘You’ve got a long way to go before you have to worry about that,’ which seemed to satisfy her. I wondered whether I should have told her the truth, that I wasn’t sure what happens when we die, any more than I was sure where the soul resides or what existed before the Big Bang.”
Thank you for posting this. Its even more of an eye-opener than what i already knew.
I think it takes a whole lot of guts for a Christian to admit that he hasn't figured out everything. Sometimes, these thoughts cross my mind: Because I believe in eternal security, I know I will be with Jesus, but what happens when I die? Where do I go, exactly? I'm saying this out loud and God knows my heart, and now so do you. Where is my mother's soul right now? Is she asleep waiting to be raised from the grave, or is she up there with Jesus looking down on me? I don't know exactly what Obama means by what he's stated above for him, but I know what it speaks to for me.
One of my strongest Christian friends, who loves the Lord dearly with all her heart, and lives by His Word in her daily life, believes there is room for evolution in the creation story. When she first mentioned this to me, I wanted to duck out of the way so I wouldn't get hit by the lightning that was about to strike her down. She simply believes that God made the Big Bang happen. I don't agree, but I don't condemn her as not being a Christian.
We all have to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling.
I still do not have the answer to this question: why are some people on this thread willing to cast a vote for John McCain, who does not show the fruits of a growing faith, rather than for Barack Obama, who actually thinks through his faith, and has fruit to show for it?
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