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RE: VP choice Palin (still breast feeding) - 8/29/2008 2:29:49 PM
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laura...
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
And so the Obama campaign starts in:
"Today, John McCain put the former mayor of a town of 9,000 with zero foreign policy experience a heartbeat away from the presidency," Obama spokesman Bill Burton said in a statement."
...completely oblivious apparently to the fact that he wants to put someone in the Presidency with zero foreign policy experience...
Interesting that they focus on her being a former mayor as opposed to a current governor.
_____________________________
This is what the Lord says: “Stop at the crossroads and look around. Ask for the old, godly way, and walk in it. Travel its path, and you will find rest for your souls. But you reply, ‘No, that’s not the road we want!’ Jer 6:16
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RE: VP choice Palin (still breast feeding) - 8/29/2008 2:31:01 PM
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small_creation
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quote:
ORIGINAL: csl7037
The "investigation" is a non-issue and wont have legs. This is a brilliant political move. And, I have to confess - although I know it to be a purely political move, and I saw it coming and wasn't surprised at all by the announcement, I'm surprised at myself today. Hearing her speak this afternoon, I'm quite moved. This is downright exciting! On some level, I can actually see for the first time what some people see in Barrack Obama - they see themselves! Although, frankly, I think those black Americans excited about Obama are seriously delusional - he has nothing whatsoever in common with those Americans, IMO! But this lady has got me all wound up! She is someone I could've gone to high school with or lived in the sorority house with or served on the PTA with! I detest people who vote on emotion and I would've voted for McCain regardless of his choice today (if only because the alternative terrifies me!). But I'm unnerved by how how moved I am by this!
I don't mean to sound entirely like Meg Ryan when I say this as I agree with you, but nothing's gotten me this politically riled up for a while ...YES! YES! YES!!!!
j
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RE: VP choice Palin (still breast feeding) - 8/29/2008 2:31:12 PM
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Jhud
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quote:
Interesting that they focus on her being a former mayor as opposed to a current governor.
Especially since they see 'Community Organizer' as being somewhere just below President.
_____________________________
Jack
I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen: not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else.
- C.S. Lewis
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RE: VP choice Palin (still breast feeding) - 8/29/2008 2:31:52 PM
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laura...
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Here's a pretty decent writeup on her.
http://news.yahoo.com/story/ap/20080829/ap_on_el_pr/cvn_veepstakes_palin;_ylt=AnhyJAYEP.726J5usSUiyVth24cA
I don't think that she's going to crumble before Biden any time soon.
_____________________________
This is what the Lord says: “Stop at the crossroads and look around. Ask for the old, godly way, and walk in it. Travel its path, and you will find rest for your souls. But you reply, ‘No, that’s not the road we want!’ Jer 6:16
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RE: VP choice Palin (still breast feeding) - 8/29/2008 2:32:08 PM
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small_creation
Posts: 357
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
quote:
Interesting that they focus on her being a former mayor as opposed to a current governor.
Especially since they see 'Community Organizer' as being somewhere just below President.
Good point!
j
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RE: VP choice Palin (still breast feeding) - 8/29/2008 2:36:03 PM
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csl7037
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quote:
ORIGINAL: small_creation
I don't think so, because I don't agree with the inference that she is political, rather than substantial.
I can't pretend to know her well, but she seems rather genuine to me, especially genuine in her desire for political reform.
j
I think she's very genuine and sincere but her selection was purely political - let's be realistic. Frankly, we have no one to blame for that but ourselves. It's the electorate that's created that reality. It's a political game at this point and selecting Palin was a great strategic move.
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RE: VP choice Palin (still breast feeding) - 8/29/2008 2:36:31 PM
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todd_t
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quote:
...completely oblivious apparently to the fact that he wants to put someone in the Presidency with zero foreign policy experience...
This statement makes no sense.
If Obama's limited national and global experience is a concern to righties, then why isn't a half-term governor with zero experience in both categories as much a concern to the same people, if not more so?
Over lunch, I tried to discern the larger benefits that picking Palin gives the McCain camp, and I couldn't come up with anything beyond galvanizing their current base - which strategically, does little for McCain.
He needs someone to help corral moderate and swing voters, and based on Sarah Palin's staunch pro-life position (which is in opposition to ex-Hillary voters), I have a hard time seeing that happen.
The more I think of a word to sum up the selection of Palin as VP, that word is "strange."
quote:
Especially since they see 'Community Organizer' as being somewhere just below President.
I hate to break this to you and Sean Hannity (who's apparently under the delusion that it's still the 1980s), but Obama hasn't been a community organizer for 20 years.
Besides, I could make a similar knock against the PTA committee member McCain just tapped as his running mate.
But hey, that would be disingenuous. 
_____________________________
In Memoriam: 1st Sgt. Obediah Kolath, US Army, Died in Iraq War (1973-2005)
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RE: VP choice Palin (still breast feeding) - 8/29/2008 2:41:58 PM
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Jhud
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quote:
This statement makes no sense.
If Obama's lack of national and global experience is a concern to righties, then why isn't a half-term governor with zero experience in both categories as much a concern to the same people, if not more so?
Over lunch, I tried to discern the larger benefits that picking Palin gives the McCain camp, and I couldn't come up with anything beyond galvanizing their current base - which strategically, does little for McCain.
He needs someone to help corral moderate and swing voters, and based on Sarah Palin's staunch pro-life position (which is in opposition to ex-Hillary voters), I have a hard time seeing that happen.
The more I think of a word to sum up the selection of Palin as VP, that word is "strange."
Well I think the difference is Todd that 'righties' think that executive experience does count for something, but relish the irony that the Presidential candidate with no foreign policy experience is criticizing the VP pick of the other campaign on that basis.
And as an independently minded, anti-corruption, Washington outsider who has the potential to break through the 'glass ceiling' that Hillary found so important, she has plenty of appeal to independents.
_____________________________
Jack
I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen: not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else.
- C.S. Lewis
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RE: VP choice Palin (still breast feeding) - 8/29/2008 2:46:39 PM
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cow451
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TaoPoohBear
quote:
ORIGINAL: cow451
McCain has always liked younger women. So he has both a trophy wife and a trophy VP. [;)
THAT was a funny quote!
(mind if I borrow it?)
Too late. Gave it to David Letterman.
_____________________________
Nobody ever heard of Acid Rain before we sent people into space.
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RE: VP choice Palin (still breast feeding) - 8/29/2008 2:46:59 PM
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small_creation
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quote:
ORIGINAL: csl7037
quote:
ORIGINAL: small_creation
I don't think so, because I don't agree with the inference that she is political, rather than substantial.
I can't pretend to know her well, but she seems rather genuine to me, especially genuine in her desire for political reform.
j
I think she's very genuine and sincere but her selection was purely political - let's be realistic. Frankly, we have no one to blame for that but ourselves. It's the electorate that's created that reality. It's a political game at this point and selecting Palin was a great strategic move.
If we're talking about the selection of her nomination, you are entirely correct. Politically advantageous. If we're talking about her person, I contend she is genuine and still possesses that rare commodity: common sense.
j
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RE: VP choice Palin (still breast feeding) - 8/29/2008 2:48:39 PM
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csl7037
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quote:
ORIGINAL: todd_t
If Obama's lack of national and global experience is a concern to righties, then why isn't a half-term governor with zero experience in both categories as much a concern to the same people, if not more so?
Because she's running for VP and, unless McCain were to keel over in January '09, she'll be in the perfect seat to learn in crash-course-fashion at the very best school of foreign policy - the White House! She'll have a 4-8 year learning curve. She's not nominated for Secretary of State but for VP. Obama's running for President - big difference.
quote:
ORIGINAL: todd_t
Over lunch, I tried to discern the larger benefits that picking Palin gives the McCain camp, and I couldn't come up with anything beyond galvanizing their current base - which strategically, does little for McCain.
He needs someone to help corral moderate and swing voters, and based on Sarah Palin's staunch pro-life position (which is in opposition to ex-Hillary voters), I have a hard time seeing that happen.
The more I think of a word to sum up the selection of Palin as VP, that word is "strange."
I think we make a mistake to attribute too much principal or real thought to the undecided "swing" voters. Reality is we've got the informed, issue-conscious voters on either end of the spectrum. The vast majority in the middle are, frankly, easily swayed by a smooth talker, a pretty face, or a moving story.
The loudest of Hillary supporters are so politically wrapped up in Hillary that they're reacting emotionally and illogically to her being passed over. Those folks could never be brought to McCain except a few out of spite maybe. But I don't think the majority of Hillary supporters are all that different from other voters - their allegiance and fascination with her probably didn't go much deeper than her gender. It's not like she was a terribly inspiring candidate in her positions or anything she really had to say - I would contend a LOT of her supporters were marginal and not very idealogical; they'll go for Palin.
quote:
Especially since they see 'Community Organizer' as being somewhere just below President.
quote:
ORIGINAL: todd_t
I hate to break this to you and Sean Hannity (who's apparently under the delusion that it's still the 1980s), but Obama hasn't been a community organizer for 20 years.
Besides, I could make a similar knock against the PTA committee member McCain just tapped as his running mate.
But hey, that would be disingenuous.
I'm convinced it's her PTA member image that's exactly what's going to win over a LOT of voters who can identify with a PTA/Hockey Mom more than a socialist raised overseas, a multi-millionaire ex-POW, a career politician, or even a power-hungry feminist...she's more like most Americans than any candidate I think we've had in decades!
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RE: VP choice Palin (still breast feeding) - 8/29/2008 2:49:04 PM
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laura...
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What VP selection has ever not been an attempt at "politically advantageous"?
_____________________________
This is what the Lord says: “Stop at the crossroads and look around. Ask for the old, godly way, and walk in it. Travel its path, and you will find rest for your souls. But you reply, ‘No, that’s not the road we want!’ Jer 6:16
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RE: VP choice Palin (still breast feeding) - 8/29/2008 2:50:24 PM
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todd_t
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quote:
Well I think the difference is Todd that 'righties' think that executive experience does count for something, but relish the irony that the Presidential candidate with no foreign policy experience is criticizing the VP pick of the other campaign on that basis.
As much I as know you're appreciating the irony of this pick, I think it's going to blow up in McCain's face - especially if moderate women voters and indies see McCain having selected a political featherweight like Palin as a cheap carrot and stick appeal to sway their vote - as if they can't see thru such a ruse like cheap wax paper.
_____________________________
In Memoriam: 1st Sgt. Obediah Kolath, US Army, Died in Iraq War (1973-2005)
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RE: VP choice Palin (still breast feeding) - 8/29/2008 2:51:04 PM
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cow451
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
quote:
But if he had picked a man nobody would've cared that he was younger.
"Sarah Barracuda" (her nickname as a high school basketball player) also won a local beauty contest and was in the Miss Alaska pageant.
Cow, suspect could kick both our rears in shooting, fishing, and on the court, so the fact that she also happens to be smart and attractive is hardly something that denigrates her.
I might actually watch the VP debate this time.
_____________________________
Nobody ever heard of Acid Rain before we sent people into space.
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RE: VP choice Palin (still breast feeding) - 8/29/2008 2:52:37 PM
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csl7037
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quote:
ORIGINAL: todd_t
As much I as know you're appreciating the irony of this pick, I think it's going to blow up in McCain's face - especially if moderate women voters and indies see McCain having selected a political featherweight like Palin as a cheap carrot and stick appeal to sway their vote - as if they can't see thru such a ruse like cheap wax paper.
She's a relative newcomer, maybe. But I don't think you can call her a lightweight. And I don't think she'll play like a lightweight in this campaign.
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RE: VP choice Palin (still breast feeding) - 8/29/2008 2:53:08 PM
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Jhud
Posts: 7627
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quote:
As much I as know you're appreciating the irony of this pick, I think it's going to blow up in McCain's face - especially if moderate women voters and indies see McCain having selected a political featherweight like Palin as a cheap carrot and stick appeal to sway their vote - as if they can't see thru such a ruse like cheap wax paper.
The wise women I know and respect like what they see in her - and I think her life experience is much closer to that of the average American woman than either that of Hillary's or Michelle's.
_____________________________
Jack
I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen: not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else.
- C.S. Lewis
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RE: VP choice Palin (still breast feeding) - 8/29/2008 2:53:29 PM
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PolarBear
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quote:
ORIGINAL: todd_t
He needs someone to help corral moderate and swing voters, and based on Sarah Palin's staunch pro-life position (which is in opposition to ex-Hillary voters), I have a hard time seeing that happen.
Fox News today quoted a study showing that abortion is the top issue for only 3% of women. And who knows, some of those may be pro-life ...
Sure he's not going to win over the far left wackos with Palin, but he should be able to bring in some moderate soccer moms.
_____________________________
My current ministry dream:
http://victorymuseum.org
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RE: VP choice Palin (still breast feeding) - 8/29/2008 2:54:28 PM
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raivyne
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cow451
I might actually watch the VP debate this time.
Oh don't tell me you missed Cheney making Edwards look like a first grader who just spilled his milk all over himself... In short I LOVED the 2004 VP Debate... It was marvelous... I even have it recorded!
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RE: VP choice Palin (still breast feeding) - 8/29/2008 2:56:53 PM
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Matt Smith
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
Actually, wisdom dictates that an Obama supporter would be more than silent on the issue of age and experience...
Are you kidding? We love his experience. That's a stupid talking point, and I've never bought into it. Experience is measured not in years, but in how it's shaped you into a more capable leader of the USA.
Obama's obviously got all the experience he needed to accurately predict the outcome of invading Iraq. How many people can say that? Not McCain.
He's got the experience he needed to run a amazing campaign - a campaign that's already being studied as a model of good management, leadership, organization, and vision. Can McCain say that?
He's taught constitutional law. It would be a nice change to have a President who actually understands and respects the Constitution.
He's got the experience to get a bunch of people organized and motivated to actually do something. That's the kind of leader we deserve. McCain has trouble getting people to even show up for a rally, much less volunteer for the campaign.
I don't love Palin's experience, though. How many domestic policy issues has she mastered? I understand she has zero foreign policy experience. So what exactly would we elect her for? A year and a half as governor of Alaska? Is that the person to be a heartbeat away from being our commander-in-chief, getting the 3 am phone call, and leading our entire country?
Not to mention that the heartbeat in question is that of a 72-year-old man. He's no spring chicken, and his health could fail. So to my mind, it's even more important that he have a rock-solid VP.
Matt
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RE: VP choice Palin (still breast feeding) - 8/29/2008 3:01:03 PM
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todd_t
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quote:
She's a relative newcomer, maybe. But I don't think you can call her a lightweight. And I don't think she'll play like a lightweight in this campaign.
I think she will because Palin will be spending so much time trying to give the country a crash course in who she is to be an effective running mate on current issues.
I'm not saying Palin is a dim bulb, but her political obscurity in the lower 48 will favor neither her, nor McCain.
quote:
The wise women I know and respect like what they see in her - and I think her life experience is much closer to that of the average American woman than either that of Hillary's or Michelle's.
I just think this is a bad choice.
Politically, McCain would have been so much better off with Romney or Pawlenty - even Kay Bailey Hutchenson brings far more to the political table than Palin does.
Oh well, not my side of the ticket anyhow. This pick just boggles the mind.
_____________________________
In Memoriam: 1st Sgt. Obediah Kolath, US Army, Died in Iraq War (1973-2005)
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RE: VP choice Palin (still breast feeding) - 8/29/2008 3:06:12 PM
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todd_t
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quote:
McCain could have picked Hilary Clinton as his running mate and you would have thought her too conservative and inexperienced, because McCain picked her.
Had McCain picked Hillary, I'd be incapable of typing this because I'd be out cold from the shock.
_____________________________
In Memoriam: 1st Sgt. Obediah Kolath, US Army, Died in Iraq War (1973-2005)
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RE: VP choice Palin (still breast feeding) - 8/29/2008 3:07:37 PM
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cow451
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quote:
ORIGINAL: raivyne
quote:
ORIGINAL: cow451
I might actually watch the VP debate this time.
Oh don't tell me you missed Cheney making Edwards look like a first grader who just spilled his milk all over himself... In short I LOVED the 2004 VP Debate... It was marvelous... I even have it recorded!
I'd already had all of Dead-eye that I could stand.
_____________________________
Nobody ever heard of Acid Rain before we sent people into space.
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RE: VP choice Palin (still breast feeding) - 8/29/2008 3:09:03 PM
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Jhud
Posts: 7627
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Lake Wobegon
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quote:
Are you kidding? We love his experience. That's a stupid talking point, and I've never bought into it. Experience is measured not in years, but in how it's shaped you into a more capable leader of the USA.
Obama's obviously got all the experience he needed to accurately predict the outcome of invading Iraq. How many people can say that? Not McCain.
He's got the experience he needed to run a amazing campaign - a campaign that's already being studied as a model of good management, leadership, organization, and vision. Can McCain say that?
He's taught constitutional law. It would be a nice change to have a President who actually understands and respects the Constitution.
He's got the experience to get a bunch of people organized and motivated to actually do something. That's the kind of leader we deserve. McCain has trouble getting people to even show up for a rally, much less volunteer for the campaign.
I don't love Palin's experience, though. How many domestic policy issues has she mastered? I understand she has zero foreign policy experience. So what exactly would we elect her for? A year and a half as governor of Alaska? Is that the person to be a heartbeat away from being our commander-in-chief, getting the 3 am phone call, and leading our entire country?
Not to mention that the heartbeat in question is that of a 72-year-old man. He's no spring chicken, and his health could fail. So to my mind, it's even more important that he have a rock-solid VP.
Well I know Obama supporters love his experience, because they consider community experience and a nominal appointment to a liberal law school to be enough to qualify someone for membership in the Trinity, but it does nothing to shore up his foriegn policy experience which is zilch.
And incidentally, Obama didn't predict the 'outcome of Iraq'. In fact, he was completely wrong with regard to the success of the surge - even after it was over!
_____________________________
Jack
I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen: not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else.
- C.S. Lewis
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RE: VP choice Palin (still breast feeding) - 8/29/2008 3:09:54 PM
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csl7037
Posts: 2060
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quote:
ORIGINAL: todd_t
She's a relative newcomer, maybe. But I don't think you can call her a lightweight. And I don't think she'll play like a lightweight in this campaign.
I think she will because Palin will be spending so much time trying to give the country a crash course in who she is to be an effective running mate on current issues.
quote:
ORIGINAL: todd_tI'm not saying Palin is a dim bulb, but her political obscurity in the lower 48 will favor neither her, nor McCain.
But the choice is fascinating. I don't think it'll take long at all for Americans to figure out who she is and what she's about. I think Biden will have more trouble overcoming the goofy things he's said and trying to make people either care who he is (if they don't know) or forget who he is (if they do know). Biden = Washington insider, same ol' same ol', ho hum. Palin people are going to want to know what she's about and are going to be enamored by the fact that she's so much like the mom next door.
quote:
The wise women I know and respect like what they see in her - and I think her life experience is much closer to that of the average American woman than either that of Hillary's or Michelle's.
Exactly.
quote:
ORIGINAL: todd_t
I just think this is a bad choice.
Politically, McCain would have been so much better off with Romney or Pawlenty - even Kay Bailey Hutchenson brings far more to the political table than Palin does.
Oh well, not my side of the ticket anyhow. This pick just boggles the mind.
Romney would've made a lot of conservatives happy (most already in the tank for McCain anyway). Pawlenty wouldn't have gotten anyone excited or inspired at all. If he'd come out with one of those, or someone like that, this afternoon, you'd be seeing the same reaction Biden got...a big yawn.
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