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RE: Can a person name be removed from the Book Of Life? - 8/30/2008 4:24:09 PM
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URForgiven
Posts: 1134
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Distinct
So once I become a believer and commit my life to Christ I lose my ability to make choices? Once I get saved and become God's child, I can never choose to walk away from Him? I don't read in Scriptures that I lose my free will.
Now, since I've become a Christian, I can't say anything would cause me to WANT to walk away from Him, but I do believe that I can.
It is not us who keeps ourselves, it is Christ who keeps us...
Hebrews 13:5
"Himself has said, I will not in any way fail you nor give you up nor leave you without support. [I will] not, [I will] not, [I will] not in any degree leave you helpless nor forsake nor let [you] down (relax My hold on you)! [Assuredly not!]"
It is Christ Himself who has said that those who are His, He will never give up. He holds onto us even when we may choose to go our own way. And believe me, it is a very good thing that He does.
Peace
< Message edited by URForgiven -- 8/30/2008 4:33:11 PM >
_____________________________
"Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit,
are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?" Galatians 3:3
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RE: Can a person name be removed from the Book Of Life? - 8/31/2008 9:30:29 AM
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Tagurit
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I think that a person can be removed from the Book of Life--yes. When a name is erased out of the "Book of Life" it just means they die in the body--not the spirit.
However, once you are written in the Lamb's Book of Life you can never be erased. This is a direct belief of eternal security which is found in numerous places in scripture.
Take even a well known verse John 3:16 - Jesus says....."will have everlasting life" He didn't say will have unless you screw up or don't do the exact perfect thing. Also, in Paul's letter to the Ephesians, God clearly tells us that ."...we have been saved through faith, and that it is not of ourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast."
If you had to act a certain way or be perfect after you were saved, none of us would reach Heaven. That would essentially mean that you have to work to get to Heaven. Luckily it is not on us.
For anyone who has questions on this theology, there are a number of great books out there that explain it better that I ever could. My favorite is Reign of the Servant Kings which is a very in depth book that examines justification, sanctification, and glorification. I got mine on Amazon.
Sometimes people get confused over eternal security which is Justification and our life as Christians--growing spiritually in Christ which is Sanctification. These two terms are NOT the same.
I would urge you that if you think that your salvation can be lost to read David's story in 2 Samuel regarding his sin with Bathsheba. Then read Psalm 51 when he prays to God to return the Joy of his salvation. This is what we lose when we willfully sin. We lose the joy and blessings that God wants us to have when we are in a close relationship with Him. We will also certaintly "reap what we sew"
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RE: Can a person name be removed from the Book Of Life? - 9/2/2008 1:17:14 PM
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DaveW
Posts: 4110
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DougHortonquote:
Just exactly whose names are written in the Book of Life? And Who wrote them there? And when? Can't anybody answer this? Let me give it a stab since everyone else here seems to have ignored it.
Whose names? All those that are saved, who have eternal life.
Phi 4:3 Yes, I ask you also, true companion, help these women, who have labored side by side with me in the gospel together with Clement and the rest of my fellow workers, whose names are in the book of life.
Rev 21:27 But nothing unclean will ever enter it, nor anyone who does what is detestable or false, but only those who are written in the Lamb's book of life.
In Jewish tradition (which Jesus, John and Paul were VERY familiar with) there is a whole liturgy (dates from first century bc) involving the book of life and the high holy days of Yom Teruah (feast of trumpets) and Yom Kippur (day of atonement). THe whole month prior to Yom Teruah is a time of introspection and repentance, and the 10 days bookended by these holy days (called the 10 days of awe) are concerned with your name being inscribed in the book for another year. If you do not properly repent, you will be blotted out.
Rev 3:5 The one who conquers will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life. I will confess his name before my Father and before his angels.
There is a pre-destination aspect to the book:
Rev 13:8 and all who dwell on earth will worship it, everyone whose name has not been written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb that was slain.
Those who are not saved are subject to devilish powers:
Rev 17:8 The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to rise from the bottomless pit and go to destruction. And the dwellers on earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world will marvel to see the beast, because it was and is not and is to come.
Those NOT in the book are eternally doomed:
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done.
Rev 20:15 And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
_____________________________
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RE: Can a person name be removed from the Book Of Life? - 9/3/2008 3:56:04 AM
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Tagurit
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I think there is sufficient evidence during judgement that there are 2 actual books. God seems to differentiate from a Book of Life where everyone is written and the Lamb's Book of Life where only those names who have trusted in Christ are written.
Once you are written into the Lamb's Book of Life, Jesus says it is eternal--cannot be removed.
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RE: Can a person name be removed from the Book Of Life? - 9/3/2008 12:44:08 PM
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DaveW
Posts: 4110
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I do not see a difference between the Book of Life and the Lamb's Book of Life.
The other books were the records of all we have done:
Rev 20:12b ... And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done.
Don't try to make a scripture fit your doctrine.
_____________________________
Avatar is Saphira 5 months and Louvena at 23 months!
We are now grandparents TWICE!!
====================================
Our CD is now available here:
http://cdbaby.com/cd/dswaggoner
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RE: Can a person name be removed from the Book Of Life? - 9/3/2008 1:39:57 PM
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Tagurit
Posts: 22
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DaveW
I do not see a difference between the Book of Life and the Lamb's Book of Life.
The other books were the records of all we have done:
Rev 20:12b ... And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done.
Don't try to make a scripture fit your doctrine.
Whether there are two books or not would not be considered doctrine. It is a belief or opinion based on scripture. Likewise there are many different beliefs/opinions about creation but thinking one way about that will not affect your salvation.
There is however evidence for two different books and not the ones you mention recording our deeds.
Psalm 139:16 indicates that all people are written in the Book of Life. Psalm 69:28 indicates a person's name is blotted out when he/she dies physically and was not deemed righteous. When a person trusts in Christ, he/she is recorded into the Lamb's Book of Life eternally and cannot be removed--Rev 21:27.
Eternal Security however, is a core doctrine and I believe this is what the original poster was asking about when he/she followed their question up with the backsliding part. Goodmamaw wanted to know or discuss that if you backslide can your name be removed from the Book of Life. I argue that it cannot assuming they have trusted Christ as their savior.
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RE: Can a person name be removed from the Book Of Life? - 9/3/2008 3:46:35 PM
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rileykins
Posts: 170
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TrustingGod
I agree that no one or nothing can separate me from God ...... EXCEPT me. I can choose to remove myself from Jesus' hand.
Hi TrustingGod
Actually no, according to God's word, not even you yourself can separate you from God.
For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
nor.......any......other.........creature. Thats you!
If we can separate ourselves from God (which we most certainly cannot)than maybe we have to change the way these verses are written from this...
In whom ye also [trusted], after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
to this....
In whom ye also [trusted], after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Which is the earnest of our inheritance until we decide we don't want to be in Christ anymore.
rileykins
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RE: Can a person name be removed from the Book Of Life? - 9/4/2008 7:39:44 AM
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DaveW
Posts: 4110
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From: MD suburbs of Washington DC
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Tagurit
Psalm 139:16 indicates that all people are written in the Book of Life. Psalm 69:28 indicates a person's name is blotted out when he/she dies physically and was not deemed righteous. When a person trusts in Christ, he/she is recorded into the Lamb's Book of Life eternally and cannot be removed--Rev 21:27. Rev 21:27 But nothing unclean will ever enter it, nor anyone who does what is detestable or false, but only those who are written in the Lamb's book of life.
WHERE does it say the name cannot be removed????
_____________________________
Avatar is Saphira 5 months and Louvena at 23 months!
We are now grandparents TWICE!!
====================================
Our CD is now available here:
http://cdbaby.com/cd/dswaggoner
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RE: Can a person name be removed from the Book Of Life? - 9/4/2008 10:21:44 AM
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Tagurit
Posts: 22
Joined: 8/27/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DaveW
quote:
ORIGINAL: Tagurit
Psalm 139:16 indicates that all people are written in the Book of Life. Psalm 69:28 indicates a person's name is blotted out when he/she dies physically and was not deemed righteous. When a person trusts in Christ, he/she is recorded into the Lamb's Book of Life eternally and cannot be removed--Rev 21:27. Rev 21:27 But nothing unclean will ever enter it, nor anyone who does what is detestable or false, but only those who are written in the Lamb's book of life.
WHERE does it say the name cannot be removed????
Obviously when we trust in Christ our names are written in the Lamb's Book of Life. The doctrine of Eternal Security is found in the following verses. I am sure there are more but this is what I could come up with quickly.
If you are asking specifically if it says that a name can be removed from the Lamb's Book of Life in Revelation then no it doesn't, but I think the meaning of eternal security is expressed more than adequately by Christ long before the Revelation to John.
1. John 3:16
2. John 3:36
3. John 6:37
4. John 6:39
5. John 6:47
6. John 10:28-29
7. John 11:25-26
8. Rom 8:38-39
9. Rom 10:9
10. Eph 2:8-9
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RE: Can a person name be removed from the Book Of Life? - 9/4/2008 6:35:12 PM
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Dennis2
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Rilekins,
I also like to consider birth and identities.
I am the earthly son of Mom and Dad. I will never be anyone else's offspring. I have their DNA. I could disown them but I would still be their child.
Likewise since I have now been born of God I will never cease to be His child. He has quickened me with His resurrected life. He has dealt with the sin issue once and for all so there is no sin that can cause that life to depart.
Knowing who He has made me to be is an identity I would never desire to give up. Oh I could get discouraged and think I have left Him but he will never leave me nor forsake me.
Those whose names are in the book of life are Children of God who wear His robe of righteousness. They are the overcomers.
Dennis
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RE: Can a person name be removed from the Book Of Life? - 9/6/2008 3:37:11 AM
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Tagurit
Posts: 22
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Thessa
Yes. Of course it can be removed. It can also be added. 
Thessa, do you believe that your salvation can be lost? I only ask because if a name is removed from the Lamb's Book of Life that is essentially what this means.
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RE: Can a person name be removed from the Book Of Life? - 9/9/2008 1:25:03 PM
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DougHorton
Posts: 934
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From: Georgia
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Are we saying then that every once in a while God says, "Oops! My omniscience must be slipping in my old age! I didn't expect him to slip away."
Or maybe, "Oh dear! I just couldn't hold onto that one. He was too strong for me."
You guys are giving me new revelations into what kind of God we serve. I didn't know he was no more than any other mortal man.
_____________________________
Doug
You may think it strange, but he never likes any assistance. When he made the world, he did not ask the angel Gabriel so much as to cool the molten matter with his wing, but he did it entirely himself. -- Spurgeon
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RE: Can a person name be removed from the Book Of Life? - 9/9/2008 1:30:28 PM
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greatdivide46
Posts: 1190
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No! Rather God says, "Son, I love you so much that I'm willing to let you go if that's what you really want, although it breaks my heart to do so. I'll not force you to stay where you don't want to."
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greatdivide46
SFC, USA (Ret)
The reflections of the heart belong to man, but the answer of the tongue is from the LORD -- Proverbs 16:1
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RE: Can a person name be removed from the Book Of Life? - 9/9/2008 1:37:34 PM
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DougHorton
Posts: 934
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From: Georgia
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quote:
ORIGINAL: greatdivide46
No! Rather God says, "Son, I love you so much that I'm willing to let you go if that's what you really want, although it breaks my heart to do so. I'll not force you to stay where you don't want to."
I can't find that verse. Where is it?
_____________________________
Doug
You may think it strange, but he never likes any assistance. When he made the world, he did not ask the angel Gabriel so much as to cool the molten matter with his wing, but he did it entirely himself. -- Spurgeon
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RE: Can a person name be removed from the Book Of Life? - 9/9/2008 4:22:28 PM
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DougHorton
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But that's the point. Those verses are not in the Bible. Those are the magnificent extra-biblical truths I'm learning from this thread.
Imagine... All this time I was under the false impression that God was omniscient and omnipotent. Not only that I thought He loved me too much to let me fall away and would faithfully keep His promises. Boy have you guys set me straight!
_____________________________
Doug
You may think it strange, but he never likes any assistance. When he made the world, he did not ask the angel Gabriel so much as to cool the molten matter with his wing, but he did it entirely himself. -- Spurgeon
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RE: Can a person name be removed from the Book Of Life? - 9/10/2008 1:37:17 AM
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Tagurit
Posts: 22
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DougHorton
Imagine... All this time I was under the false impression that God was omniscient and omnipotent. Not only that I thought He loved me too much to let me fall away and would faithfully keep His promises. Boy have you guys set me straight!
Good point. I tend to take Christ at His word when he says in John 10:28-29 that NO ONE (including ourselves) can remove us out of the Father's Hand.
The point comes down to this....If we had to act a certain way or do certain things in order to keep our salvation, that is WORKS. Please read Ephesians 2:8-9. If you believe it is works that help you stay in Grace then it is contrary to scripture.
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RE: Can a person name be removed from the Book Of Life? - 9/23/2008 2:25:48 PM
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Sammy_S
Posts: 557
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From: Brampton,Ontario
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"My sheep listen to my voice, and I know them and they follow me.
28 "I am giving them eternal life, and they shall never perish, nor shall any one snatch them out of my hand.
29 "My Father who has given them to me is stronger than all, and no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand.
John 10:27-29 (MontgomeryNT)
Why is this even a topic of discussion among believers?Do we not believe in Jesus? Just because false converts "fall' from the faith doesn't mean that true believers can fall out of the Grace of God.
This is why we must study and understand the importance of the fact that it was not the blood of goats that saved us,we were not bought by silver and gold.We were bought by that which is most precious in the world World and that is the blood of Jesus Christ himself!
Are the schemes of men,Satan and the power of sin greater than the blood of Christ?
If so,you do not know what a mighty thing the Lord has done in you.
_____________________________
Christ saved you from the wrath of an almighty God. Hell is just a revelation of that. I always tell people this. God saved you from Himself, God saved you for Himself and God saved you by Himself."
Paul Washer
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RE: Can a person name be removed from the Book Of Life? - 9/23/2008 2:31:55 PM
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DougHorton
Posts: 934
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Georgia
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Sammy_S
"My sheep listen to my voice, and I know them and they follow me.
28 "I am giving them eternal life, and they shall never perish, nor shall any one snatch them out of my hand.
29 "My Father who has given them to me is stronger than all, and no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand.
John 10:27-29 (MontgomeryNT)
Why is this even a topic of discussion among believers? Do we not believe in Jesus? Just because false converts "fall' from the faith doesn't mean that true believers can fall out of the Grace of God.
This is why we must study and understand the importance of the fact that it was not the blood of goats that saved us,we were not bought by silver and gold.We were bought by that which is most precious in the world World and that is the blood of Jesus Christ himself!
Are the schemes of men, Satan and the power of sin greater than the blood of Christ?
If so,you do not know what a mighty thing the Lord has done in you.
(emphasis mine)
Amen!
_____________________________
Doug
You may think it strange, but he never likes any assistance. When he made the world, he did not ask the angel Gabriel so much as to cool the molten matter with his wing, but he did it entirely himself. -- Spurgeon
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RE: Can a person name be removed from the Book Of Life? - 9/29/2008 4:50:37 PM
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raivyne
Posts: 934
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DougHorton
quote:
ORIGINAL: TrustingGod
I agree that no one or nothing can separate me from God ...... EXCEPT me. I can choose to remove myself from Jesus' hand.
Why the exception? What makes you so much more powerful than the Almighty?
Its not a measure of our power vs. God's. Its the God given free will we have... we can choose to follow/listen to God or not.
As to the question of the OP - yes.
_____________________________
P.U.S.H. – Pray Until Something Happens
What if God is asking us for a sign?
Knowledge is proud; wisdom is humble.
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