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RE: When is a family too big. - 8/28/2008 12:22:57 PM
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Jenny-Fair
Posts: 5801
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From: WA
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quote:
And BTW, Jenny, that same family that I nannied for, although they claimed to e QF, she also got mad when she got pregnant. Don't you think that's a little weird?
I think that, and their other attitude, and the dad's problems at work, point out that even people with attitude problems can have large families, lol. I really don't think the large family caused their problems, I think it was their attitudes, and you can have those attitudes with any number of kids. I have known families that thought they were 'perfect' because they had one son and one daughter. I know a family, and love them, actually, who is stopping at one son and one daughter because vacation packages are usually for a family of four. Personally, I think that's an awful and superficial way to decide how many kids you have, lol.
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Tony: Ziva, did you kill Houdini?
Ziva: It is possible. I do not remember all their names.
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RE: When is a family too big. - 8/28/2008 12:27:46 PM
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P31W
Posts: 2942
Joined: 6/13/2005
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We stopped at one child because we were not sure we could feed, house, educate and provide proper medical care for more.
For us it's unloving to bring a child into the world knowing you cannot be a proper or fit provider. It's just selfish and unloving.
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RE: When is a family too big. - 8/28/2008 12:38:25 PM
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Mrs.Wifey
Posts: 4871
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: The Gorgeous plains of Colorado
Status: offline
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quote:
Is it right to knowingly inflict added financial burdens on others (who cannot opt out of contributing) in order to raise those kids?
I will answer... No, it's not right and I don't appreciate my tax dollars being used that way. However, DH and I did knowingly conceive DD and did end up using WIC for a couple of months in order to pay for her formula. Technically, WIC is welfare and is paid for by taxpayers. However, when she was conceived DH was working a very good job and we wouldn't have had problems supporting DD except that we "fell on hard times".
Eh. I whole heartedly agree with you though, especially in regards to preparing for our future. Yes, God is faithful and will provide for us but there is also nothing wrong with taking care of ourselves and planning for retirements, etc...
We have chosen to not have more then 3 kids(unless God strikes us with a bolt of lightening and tells us otherwise) because there are things that we don't feel we could adequately provide. Clothing, shelter, proper education, vacations, etc... DH and I were both picked on and bullied for our thrift shop clothing as children, DH *still* has some issues from that and feels that it is our responsibility to ensure that our kids are protected from that. So while it may seem superficial to some, it is not to us.
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RE: When is a family too big. - 8/28/2008 12:39:47 PM
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Sideways
Posts: 3934
Joined: 4/12/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: OneOfHisJewels
quote:
ORIGINAL: 3cappuccinosmom
quote:
And you don't think you could be mistaken about their false pride? Sometimes we take things wrong when they are issues that already bother us.
I wonder about that too. 
Kinda makes me wonder what people think about me! 
Maggie, I have told you many times that I respect you more than any other QF I've ever met.
1.You state your beliefs in a humble manner.
2.I have never gotten the sense you think you are better than others just because you're QF.
3.I've never seen you try to shove you're beliefs down anyone's throat, you just quietly state that's what you believe for you.
4. I've seen your children's pictures, they are well nourished and well groomed, and well fed.
5.You don't have a lazy bum husband. He works his tail off.
I agree with this. Anyone who knows Maggie knows that she is proud of her children, as any mother would be, but would not say that she is a prideful QFer.
Maggie and her family represent the ideal of QF, in my opinion. They provide for their children themselves, they would welcome more children but would also be happy and content with the children they have, and they don't judge another family by the number of children they have.
None of these folks are questioning people like Maggie, it's the ones who aren't like Maggie who sometimes get feathers riled up! 
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RE: When is a family too big. - 8/28/2008 12:41:38 PM
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OneOfHisJewels
Posts: 2940
Joined: 8/9/2007
From: California
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jenny-Fair
quote:
And BTW, Jenny, that same family that I nannied for, although they claimed to e QF, she also got mad when she got pregnant. Don't you think that's a little weird?
I think that, and their other attitude, and the dad's problems at work, point out that even people with attitude problems can have large families, lol. I really don't think the large family caused their problems, I think it was their attitudes, and you can have those attitudes with any number of kids. I have known families that thought they were 'perfect' because they had one son and one daughter. I know a family, and love them, actually, who is stopping at one son and one daughter because vacation packages are usually for a family of four. Personally, I think that's an awful and superficial way to decide how many kids you have, lol.
ACK! You're getting mixed up. The family with the attitude problem, and the family where the dad couldn't keep a job because of his own attitude were two different families.
The first family, the dad had a very successful career as a Naval officer.
The second family, the mom was actually very sweet, and so were the kids, it was just her husband that had the attitude, and she's not the one that got mad when she was pregnant, it was the first family.
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RE: When is a family too big. - 8/28/2008 12:44:58 PM
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OneOfHisJewels
Posts: 2940
Joined: 8/9/2007
From: California
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Sideways
quote:
ORIGINAL: OneOfHisJewels
quote:
ORIGINAL: 3cappuccinosmom
quote:
And you don't think you could be mistaken about their false pride? Sometimes we take things wrong when they are issues that already bother us.
I wonder about that too.
Kinda makes me wonder what people think about me!
Maggie, I have told you many times that I respect you more than any other QF I've ever met.
1.You state your beliefs in a humble manner.
2.I have never gotten the sense you think you are better than others just because you're QF.
3.I've never seen you try to shove you're beliefs down anyone's throat, you just quietly state that's what you believe for you.
4. I've seen your children's pictures, they are well nourished and well groomed, and well fed.
5.You don't have a lazy bum husband. He works his tail off.
I agree with this. Anyone who knows Maggie knows that she is proud of her children, as any mother would be, but would not say that she is a prideful QFer.
Maggie and her family represent the ideal of QF, in my opinion. They provide for their children themselves, they would welcome more children but would also be happy and content with the children they have, and they don't judge another family by the number of children they have.
None of these folks are questioning people like Maggie, it's the ones who aren't like Maggie who sometimes get feathers riled up!
And actually, all the QFer's here on CW seem to be the same way.
It's the people in real life that I've had a problem with.
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RE: When is a family too big. - 8/28/2008 12:49:32 PM
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macokjc
Posts: 289
Joined: 2/24/2008
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Kat - I don't think your question was flawed. I also think that it is irresponsible to have children if you know that you can't provide for them - be it 2 children or 10 children. I also think that sometimes it is not just financial support where parents are lacking.
It does crack me up when somebody says "Well, I'm pregnant, so God must of wanted us to have another child." NO - you are pregnant because you had sex!!! While I believe that life begins at conception, the act of making babies is science - as much as the law of gravity. One would never jump off a bridge saying "Well, if God wants me to live, he will suspend the law of gravity."
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RE: When is a family too big. - 8/28/2008 12:54:26 PM
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bluestone
Posts: 2934
Joined: 2/25/2008
From: United States of America
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quote:
ORIGINAL: macokjc
It does crack me up when somebody says "Well, I'm pregnant, so God must of wanted us to have another child." NO - you are pregnant because you had sex!!! While I believe that life begins at conception, the act of making babies is science - as much as the law of gravity. One would never jump off a bridge saying "Well, if God wants me to live, he will suspend the law of gravity."
EXCELLENT ANALOGY!
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RE: When is a family too big. - 8/28/2008 12:55:58 PM
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CoeurdeLeon_
Posts: 9306
Joined: 9/4/2005
From: Inside my head
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bluestone
quote:
ORIGINAL: macokjc
It does crack me up when somebody says "Well, I'm pregnant, so God must of wanted us to have another child." NO - you are pregnant because you had sex!!! While I believe that life begins at conception, the act of making babies is science - as much as the law of gravity. One would never jump off a bridge saying "Well, if God wants me to live, he will suspend the law of gravity."
EXCELLENT ANALOGY!
I agree.
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colliding with the fragrance of laughter.
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RE: When is a family too big. - 8/28/2008 12:59:32 PM
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OneOfHisJewels
Posts: 2940
Joined: 8/9/2007
From: California
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quote:
I will answer... No, it's not right and I don't appreciate my tax dollars being used that way. However, DH and I did knowingly conceive DD and did end up using WIC for a couple of months in order to pay for her formula. Technically, WIC is welfare and is paid for by taxpayers. However, when she was conceived DH was working a very good job and we wouldn't have had problems supporting DD except that we "fell on hard times".
Plus, you didn't know you weren't gonna be able to breast feed successfully.
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RE: When is a family too big. - 8/28/2008 12:59:36 PM
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Kat_D
Posts: 3037
Joined: 9/2/2005
From: Where We Shake, Rattle & Roll!
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Mrs.Wifey
quote:
Is it right to knowingly inflict added financial burdens on others (who cannot opt out of contributing) in order to raise those kids?
I will answer... No, it's not right and I don't appreciate my tax dollars being used that way. However, DH and I did knowingly conceive DD and did end up using WIC for a couple of months in order to pay for her formula. Technically, WIC is welfare and is paid for by taxpayers. However, when she was conceived DH was working a very good job and we wouldn't have had problems supporting DD except that we "fell on hard times".
Eh. I whole heartedly agree with you though, especially in regards to preparing for our future. Yes, God is faithful and will provide for us but there is also nothing wrong with taking care of ourselves and planning for retirements, etc...
And again, Ryanne, anyone and everyone can fall on hard times and no one begrudges giving those people a temporary hand.
It is when those who have two children and know beyond a shadow of a doubt that they cannot adequately provide for a third, without reliance on the state or others, but proceed to have a third, fourth, fifth or more... That's when I have a big, fat problem with large families.
And if I can give one more scenario...when people continue having kids when they know they are not physically, mentally, educationally, or tempromentally equipped to raise the ones they have. Their present children are completely undisciplined, unhappy, untrained and out of control and the parents are not willing to seek help and counseling to ensure they raise them properly, yet they continue to have more. That to me is so pathetic.
_____________________________
~Kat
"...And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes...no more death, sorrow, nor crying."
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RE: When is a family too big. - 8/28/2008 1:00:49 PM
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Sideways
Posts: 3934
Joined: 4/12/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: macokjc
It does crack me up when somebody says "Well, I'm pregnant, so God must of wanted us to have another child." NO - you are pregnant because you had sex!!! While I believe that life begins at conception, the act of making babies is science - as much as the law of gravity.
Yeah, I agree with you, but I was told that my "beliefs" are what led to abortion doctors and the Nazis, because each baby is a direct miracle of God. Literally that in order for a woman to become pregnant God has to reach down and perform a miracle on her. And if she does not become pregnant it's because God choose not to perform a miracle on her.
In a certain sense I do belief that life is a miracle, as are the souls were are given, but saying that conception and pregnancy is a scientific process can get you into a lot of trouble.
_____________________________
This warranty does not include shark bites, bear attacks and children under five.
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RE: When is a family too big. - 8/28/2008 1:02:25 PM
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Jenny-Fair
Posts: 5801
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: WA
Status: offline
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Biblically, married people are supposed to have sex, and when that was written, just about the only method of birth control was abstinence. The Bible specifically says not to withold sex except for prayer and fasting--never does it encourage any kind of birth control.
This isn't like buying a house that is too expensive. It's human beings. And I don't think people who believe that the creation of human beings should be left to the Creator deserve to be called irresponsible or thieves.
_____________________________
Tony: Ziva, did you kill Houdini?
Ziva: It is possible. I do not remember all their names.
My Blog
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RE: When is a family too big. - 8/28/2008 1:03:38 PM
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OneOfHisJewels
Posts: 2940
Joined: 8/9/2007
From: California
Status: offline
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quote:
None of these folks are questioning people like Maggie, it's the ones who aren't like Maggie who sometimes get feathers riled up!
Exactly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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RE: When is a family too big. - 8/28/2008 1:03:44 PM
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Tinkerbell_
Posts: 8638
Joined: 1/25/2008
From: NeverNeverLand
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Kat_D
quote:
ORIGINAL: Mrs.Wifey
quote:
Is it right to knowingly inflict added financial burdens on others (who cannot opt out of contributing) in order to raise those kids?
I will answer... No, it's not right and I don't appreciate my tax dollars being used that way. However, DH and I did knowingly conceive DD and did end up using WIC for a couple of months in order to pay for her formula. Technically, WIC is welfare and is paid for by taxpayers. However, when she was conceived DH was working a very good job and we wouldn't have had problems supporting DD except that we "fell on hard times".
Eh. I whole heartedly agree with you though, especially in regards to preparing for our future. Yes, God is faithful and will provide for us but there is also nothing wrong with taking care of ourselves and planning for retirements, etc...
And again, Ryanne, anyone and everyone can fall on hard times and no one begrudges giving those people a temporary hand.
It is when those who have two children and know beyond a shadow of a doubt that they cannot adequately provide for a third, without reliance on the state or others, but proceed to have a third, fourth, fifth or more... That's when I have a big, fat problem with large families.
And if I can give one more scenario...when people continue having kids when they know they are not physically, mentally, educationally, or tempromentally equipped to raise the ones they have. Their present children are completely undisciplined, unhappy, untrained and out of control and the parents are not willing to seek help and counseling to ensure they raise them properly, yet they continue to have more. That to me is so pathetic.
I have a friend, that while I love her, does not need any more children until she can control the ones she has. Luckily she's single and can't have anymore until she's married...is it wrong to pray that she isn't married for a very long time?
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RE: When is a family too big. - 8/28/2008 1:05:02 PM
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Sideways
Posts: 3934
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 3cappuccinosmom
I meant more the people who see me in church, who ask about why I have three kids and recieve my answer. I try to be humble and keep from generalizing, but how can I be sure someone doesn't misinterpret me, or think I'm being snotty or arrogant when I'm not intending to be at all?
People would only assume that if they don't know you. And you can hardly be blamed for what people like that would choose to believe about you.
_____________________________
This warranty does not include shark bites, bear attacks and children under five.
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RE: When is a family too big. - 8/28/2008 1:16:47 PM
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bluestone
Posts: 2934
Joined: 2/25/2008
From: United States of America
Status: offline
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In Bible days absitnence was the only means of not getting pregnant.
They did not have ovens, either.
Thankfully, we neither have to stay pregnant until our bodies wear out, have more children than we can possible take care of, or cook over open fires.
If you think birth contrl pills cause abortions, there are condoms, surgery, and other means available.
If we don't use things simply because they are not in the Bible, we have to convert to the ancient middle Eastern culture, which is impossible.
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I need Christ. Not something that resembles Christ.
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RE: When is a family too big. - 8/28/2008 1:21:47 PM
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OneOfHisJewels
Posts: 2940
Joined: 8/9/2007
From: California
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Actually, I have researched BC methods, and they go back farther than one would think...it DIDN'T just start in the 60's (yeah, the pill was from then, but other methods go WAAAAAAAAY back). It's just that other materials (such as animal intestines) were used.
Remember...there is nothing new under the sun.
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RE: When is a family too big. - 8/28/2008 1:22:29 PM
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Jenny-Fair
Posts: 5801
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: WA
Status: offline
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It isn't that birth control isn't in the Bible...it's that the principle of it is spoken against. Abstinence WAS the only method, and yet married couples are told not to abstain.
_____________________________
Tony: Ziva, did you kill Houdini?
Ziva: It is possible. I do not remember all their names.
My Blog
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RE: When is a family too big. - 8/28/2008 1:24:01 PM
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OneOfHisJewels
Posts: 2940
Joined: 8/9/2007
From: California
Status: offline
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From what I can tell(and yes I've read through the whole Bible, the Bible is rather silent on the issue).
Yes, children are blessings, but we are also to be good stewards of the blessings we have.
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RE: When is a family too big. - 8/28/2008 1:25:03 PM
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Sideways
Posts: 3934
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jenny-Fair
It isn't that birth control isn't in the Bible...it's that the principle of it is spoken against. Abstinence WAS the only method, and yet married couples are told not to abstain.
I disagree with that interpretation. Withholding sex from a spouse can cause real harm to a marriage, and it's not surprising that God would not want us to hurt our spouse in any way.
These days we can still fulfill our spouses sexually, but prevent conception. They simply didn't have that option in the Bible.
_____________________________
This warranty does not include shark bites, bear attacks and children under five.
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RE: When is a family too big. - 8/28/2008 1:26:42 PM
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bluestone
Posts: 2934
Joined: 2/25/2008
From: United States of America
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: OneOfHisJewels
Actually, I have researched BC methods, and they go back farther than one would think...it DIDN'T just start in the 60's (yeah, the pill was from then, but other methods go WAAAAAAAAY back). It's just that other materials (such as animal intestines) were used.
Remember...there is nothing new under the sun.
You are right. Dollar coins were used as diaprams in teh old West.
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I need Christ. Not something that resembles Christ.
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