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Why Did God Create "Bad" Animals? - 8/25/2008 5:17:15 AM
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solomonsprayer
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As a pure exercise in speculation, I am curious as to why people think God created "bad" animals or creatures on this earth. Things like snakes, fleas, ticks, alligators, sharks, etc. that are ferocious and deadly....what purpose do they serve? Will they be in heaven?
I can understand the creation of a cuddly, loving animal like a cat or dog or rabbit, but some living things are just gross and dangerous...Were these mutations of original creatures after the Fall? Is it all subjective?...meaning some people like dogs, others don't...and some like rats and others fear and hate them, etc.?
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RE: Why Did God Create "Bad" Animals? - 8/25/2008 7:24:56 AM
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mvic
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God has not created any "bad" animals. Each creature has its own purpose in the grand scheme of things - even if it is just being part of the food chain.
As for animals being in Heaven. Well ... that's all guess-work for now. There certainly aren't any such references in the Bible that I know of.
I suspect the only creature susceptible to doing bad is man.
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RE: Why Did God Create "Bad" Animals? - 8/25/2008 7:44:59 AM
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chrisovery
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this is an awesome discussion topic. i don't believe that god made these animals the way they are today in the beginning. as far as sharks go. most shark attacks are where people are surfing and from underneath of the water they look as though they are seals. a sharks favorite meal.
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RE: Why Did God Create "Bad" Animals? - 8/25/2008 8:56:16 AM
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deermousie
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God created a world where every animal was vegetarian - and then Adam and Eve sinned and all of creation was cursed in the fall, not just mankind. But it wasn't until after Noah's flood that God gave permission for us to eat meat. I don't think it says when animals started eating each other.
It's says lions used to eat grass; it makes you wonder what sharks orginially ate, doesn't it. Kelp, I guess.
In the OT in Israel, God said to take over the land so as to drive out predatory animals, so they were already a problem in Exodus.
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RE: Why Did God Create "Bad" Animals? - 8/25/2008 11:12:19 AM
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TorchHeart
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quote:
ORIGINAL: deermousie
God created a world where every animal was vegetarian - and then Adam and Eve sinned and all of creation was cursed in the fall, not just mankind. But it wasn't until after Noah's flood that God gave permission for us to eat meat. I don't think it says when animals started eating each other.
It's says lions used to eat grass; it makes you wonder what sharks orginially ate, doesn't it. Kelp, I guess.
In the OT in Israel, God said to take over the land so as to drive out predatory animals, so they were already a problem in Exodus.
???????
With all due respect, where the heck did it say that lions used to eat grass? Was that recently added to texts (recently meaning in the middle ages)? I realize that many carnivorous animals will eat grass as a means to aid with digestion, but its far from their main source of nutrition and I don't recall there being any evidence that this ever was the case.
And how do we know that every animal was a "vegetarian?" Tyranosaurus, Velocoraptor, Allosaurus, etc. were all clearly carnivours creatures for a LONG time before any of this.
< Message edited by TorchHeart -- 8/25/2008 11:19:17 AM >
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RE: Why Did God Create "Bad" Animals? - 8/25/2008 11:15:40 AM
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chrisovery
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deer mousie, i do not see where the bible states that all animals were vegetarian. i do know that in the beginning we actually had a direct relationship with the animals. we see this in gensis where the serpant talked directly to eve. could you please share scriptural reference for your statement?
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RE: Why Did God Create "Bad" Animals? - 8/25/2008 11:24:39 AM
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Jhud
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quote:
As a pure exercise in speculation, I am curious as to why people think God created "bad" animals or creatures on this earth. Things like snakes, fleas, ticks, alligators, sharks, etc. that are ferocious and deadly....what purpose do they serve? Will they be in heaven?
I can understand the creation of a cuddly, loving animal like a cat or dog or rabbit, but some living things are just gross and dangerous...Were these mutations of original creatures after the Fall? Is it all subjective?...meaning some people like dogs, others don't...and some like rats and others fear and hate them, etc.?
Well, the first thing I think we need to remember is that God is not cute and cuddly - in fact, the effect of His appearance to men in His glory causes men to fall on their faces, frozen in terror. God loves, but God awes us, His wrath can destroy life, His judgment is uncompromising. So it is no little surprise that amongst His creation we find creatures that reflect that awe, fear, and swift judgment.
In fact, in the book of Job God specifically points to these creatures as emblematic of His character:
Job 39:20-25
"Do you make him leap like the locust? His majestic snorting is terrible. "He paws in the valley, and rejoices in his strength ; He goes out to meet the weapons. "He laughs at fear and is not dismayed; And he does not turn back from the sword. "The quiver rattles against him, The flashing spear and javelin. "With shaking and rage he races over the ground, And he does not stand still at the voice of the trumpet. "As often as the trumpet sounds he says, 'Aha !' And he scents the battle from afar, And the thunder of the captains and the war cry.
Job 39:28-30
"Is it at your command that the eagle mounts up And makes his nest on high? "On the cliff he dwells and lodges , Upon the rocky crag, an inaccessible place. "From there he spies out food; His eyes see it from afar. "His young ones also suck up blood; And where the slain are, there is he."
Job 41:1-11; 31-34
"Can you draw out Leviathan with a fishhook? Or press down his tongue with a cord? "Can you put a rope in his nose Or pierce his jaw with a hook? "Will he make many supplications to you, Or will he speak to you soft words? "Will he make a covenant with you? Will you take him for a servant forever? "Will you play with him as with a bird, Or will you bind him for your maidens? "Will the traders bargain over him? Will they divide him among the merchants? "Can you fill his skin with harpoons, Or his head with fishing spears? "Lay your hand on him; Remember the battle; you will not do it again! "Behold, your expectation is false; Will you be laid low even at the sight of him? "No one is so fierce that he dares to arouse him; Who then is he that can stand before Me? "Who has given to Me that I should repay him? Whatever is under the whole heaven is Mine.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"He makes the depths boil like a pot; He makes the sea like a jar of ointment. "Behind him he makes a wake to shine; One would think the deep to be gray-haired. "Nothing on earth is like him, One made without fear. "He looks on everything that is high; He is king over all the sons of pride."
So we see all these creatures displaying God's majesty, strength, and a very wild power that resists our simple classification.
Beyond that we see this in Genesis as one of the curses of human sin:
Genesis 3:17 - 19
Then to Adam He said, "Because you have listened to the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree about which I commanded you, saying, 'You shall not eat from it'; Cursed is the ground because of you; In toil you will eat of it All the days of your life. "Both thorns and thistles it shall grow for you; And you will eat the plants of the field; By the sweat of your face You will eat bread, Till you return to the ground, Because from it you were taken; For you are dust, And to dust you shall return."
So despite the fact that man was created to be in harmony with nature, because of his sinful choices nature now became antagonistic to man's interests, even painfully so. Personally, I think this, like all God's judgments, is ultimately a grace - because were nature to continue in it's state of perfection, man in his weakness would be even more tempted to worship it instead of the Creator - something that occurs still despite nature's antagonism.
And we see this play out in big in little ways. For example, we live with about 30,000 different sorts of microorganisms in our daily life. The vast majority of these are useful, even necessary to our existence - but about 70 are pathogenic, and cause various diseases - and usually the reason for this is because they have become incompatible with our biology through mutation.
There is so much more, but I hope this info is useful.
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It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first..
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RE: Why Did God Create "Bad" Animals? - 8/25/2008 11:25:34 AM
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waitingforreturn
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quote:
ORIGINAL: chrisovery
deer mousie, i do not see where the bible states that all animals were vegetarian. i do know that in the beginning we actually had a direct relationship with the animals. we see this in gensis where the serpant talked directly to eve. could you please share scriptural reference for your statement?
Genesis 1:29 Then God said, "I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food. 30 And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds of the air and all the creatures that move on the ground—everything that has the breath of life in it—I give every green plant for food." And it was so.
Only one way to take that. Vegetarians.
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RE: Why Did God Create "Bad" Animals? - 8/25/2008 11:32:29 AM
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TorchHeart
Posts: 1497
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From: One of the coldest places on Earth
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quote:
ORIGINAL: solomonsprayer
As a pure exercise in speculation, I am curious as to why people think God created "bad" animals or creatures on this earth. Things like snakes, fleas, ticks, alligators, sharks, etc. that are ferocious and deadly....what purpose do they serve? Will they be in heaven?
I can understand the creation of a cuddly, loving animal like a cat or dog or rabbit, but some living things are just gross and dangerous...Were these mutations of original creatures after the Fall? Is it all subjective?...meaning some people like dogs, others don't...and some like rats and others fear and hate them, etc.?
God has NEVER created a bad animal. For millions and millions of years, he's created only good animals. Its just how we preceive nature that makes them appear "bad."
What's so "bad" about a lion killing an impala for food? This is what we do, as well, and have done for many thousands of years. God gave different animals different means of getting their "food." Some use poisons. Some use stealth. Some use their jaws. It might appear to be brutal and cruel, but remember... these are animals; not people.
I firmly believe that God created EVERY animal on this Earth for a purpose. It might be hard to see what the purpose of something like a mosquito might be, but try to look at it in the big picture: Mosquitoes feed frogs, certain types of birds, spiders, and other animals. These animals feed other animals themselves. And all the way up the food chain until you hit people. Its God's way of making everything perfect for us. And I believe that God is giving us these animals, too, to give us a sense of wonder and amazement about how his world really works.
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RE: Why Did God Create "Bad" Animals? - 8/25/2008 11:35:20 AM
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TorchHeart
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quote:
ORIGINAL: waitingforreturn
quote:
ORIGINAL: chrisovery
deer mousie, i do not see where the bible states that all animals were vegetarian. i do know that in the beginning we actually had a direct relationship with the animals. we see this in gensis where the serpant talked directly to eve. could you please share scriptural reference for your statement?
Genesis 1:29 Then God said, "I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food. 30 And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds of the air and all the creatures that move on the ground—everything that has the breath of life in it—I give every green plant for food." And it was so.
Only one way to take that. Vegetarians.
Not necessarily.
1) when was original text in the Bible, or something added later. (like the names of the three wisemen in the Nativity story)
2) it doesn't say that this is the only food of these creatures. Others could've still been carnivorous.
3) as I mentioned before how does this explain certain dinosaurs and other animals that cleared have been carnivorous for eons? It doesn't.
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RE: Why Did God Create "Bad" Animals? - 8/25/2008 11:40:25 AM
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mvic
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Furthermore ... I believe Noah had difficulties with woodpeckers as they kept drilling holes in his ark.
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Christian words of comfort at http://www.holyvisions.co.uk
Welcome to my Blog
MEI VITA INDICO CHRISTUS
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RE: Why Did God Create "Bad" Animals? - 8/25/2008 2:02:29 PM
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rcjames
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I just do not believe there are any "Bad" animals.
There are some that can harm folks, but folks should have the sense to stay out of the way.
Most of the meat eating animals are here to keep balance in numbers.
The lowly blind termite strikes fear in the hearts of man when they invade a house, but do a great service to recycling nature.
Thanks
RC
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RE: Why Did God Create "Bad" Animals? - 8/25/2008 2:08:32 PM
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TorchHeart
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quote:
There are some that can harm folks, but folks should have the sense to stay out of the way.
That's actually a really good point. Most animals that we preceive as being dangerous actually would just as soon leave us alone. They tend to only attack if:
1) We somehow become a threat to them (such as accidenly invading a den/nest/hive/ect. where they live, coming between them and their food, coming between them and their offspring, encroaching on their territory with human development.
or
2) If they're sick (see "rabid") or lacking in resources (such as suffering from a shortage of food or shelter).
Otherwise, as RCjames said, if we just stay out of their way, they usually won't bother us.
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RE: Why Did God Create "Bad" Animals? - 8/25/2008 2:46:47 PM
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waitingforreturn
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TorchHeart
quote:
ORIGINAL: waitingforreturn
quote:
ORIGINAL: chrisovery
deer mousie, i do not see where the bible states that all animals were vegetarian. i do know that in the beginning we actually had a direct relationship with the animals. we see this in gensis where the serpant talked directly to eve. could you please share scriptural reference for your statement?
Genesis 1:29 Then God said, "I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food. 30 And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds of the air and all the creatures that move on the ground—everything that has the breath of life in it—I give every green plant for food." And it was so.
Only one way to take that. Vegetarians.
Not necessarily.
1) when was original text in the Bible, or something added later. (like the names of the three wisemen in the Nativity story)
2) it doesn't say that this is the only food of these creatures. Others could've still been carnivorous.
3) as I mentioned before how does this explain certain dinosaurs and other animals that cleared have been carnivorous for eons? It doesn't.
I just believe in what the bible says. I dont spectulate like others. I believe the universe was created in 6 days as God said and I believe before sin, we and animals only ate plants (again because the bible said so).
Nothing was added to Genesis. Its a translation from the original Hebrew text (if you wanna go that route; one can say Jesus' rising from the dead was "added later")
God said that he gave "EVERY green plant". Not every plant and some animals. I dont ADD my own slant on the bible. Unfortunately many do.
Point 3: again you are speculating (like scientists do).
Every point you stated is nothing but speculating.
God said after he created everything that it was very good.
You mean to tell me that animals eating others is very good???(talking about before the the fall, and realize that I love to eat animals  )
Thats a perfect world? Diseases like cancer (scientists say fossilized remains show cancer) was "very good"?
You cant twist that into being good
No death is good. please dont spin it.
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RE: Why Did God Create "Bad" Animals? - 8/25/2008 3:30:27 PM
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TorchHeart
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quote:
ORIGINAL: waitingforreturn
I just believe in what the bible says. I dont spectulate like others. I believe the universe was created in 6 days as God said and I believe before sin, we and animals only ate plants (again because the bible said so).
But the Bible DOESN'T say so. You're quoting a text and putting your own slant on it.
The Bible also doesn't say anything about dinosaurs, viruses, Uranus Neptune, Pluto, the Chinese Empire in Asia, the Olmec Empire in the Americas. That doesn't mean than none of these things existed.
quote:
ORIGINAL: waitingforreturn
Nothing was added to Genesis. Its a translation from the original Hebrew text (if you wanna go that route; one can say Jesus' rising from the dead was "added later")
I think you're missing what I'm saying here. Obviously the story of Jesus was added later. Jesus came later in time. What I'm saying is, did church officials (or more likely, ancient Jewish leaders/priests) add this into the story at a later date to explain things in the creation story further?
God said that he gave "EVERY green plant". Not every plant and some animals. I dont ADD my own slant on the bible.
So? Just because the Bible doesn't say that animals were eaten, too, doesn't make it the case. Like I said, you're putting your own sland on the Bible, just as everyone else in history has. Its interesting to note that the the idea of the entire creation account in Genesis has never been considered to be taken literally until fairly recently in human history. We're talking the 17th Century. Even the Jewish priests/rabbis didn't believe it to be "historical," and instead to be allagorical as a teaching tool.
quote:
ORIGINAL: waitingforreturn
Unfortunately many do.
Point 3: again you are speculating (like scientists do).
Every point you stated is nothing but speculating.
Um.. You're speculating too.
quote:
ORIGINAL: waitingforreturn
God said after he created everything that it was very good.
And He did.
quote:
ORIGINAL: waitingforreturn
You mean to tell me that animals eating others is very good???(talking about before the the fall, and realize that I love to eat animals )
Thats a perfect world? Diseases like cancer (scientists say fossilized remains show cancer) was "very good"?
Everything has a natural way to it. Is animals eating one another good? Yes, I'd say that it is. Look at how our world works. In my mind (nature-wise) it IS perfect. God takes care of every animal. Yes, some get eaten, but look at how that benefits everything else as a whole. The cycle God created and developed over millions of years (or however long as you are free to believe) is PERFECT!!! Only God could do this. Its only when we people start imposing our will over them to such extremes that they can no longer survive that things go wrong.
Are disease like cancer good? No. But this is a fallen, sin-filled world. HUMANS are the ones who fell. Why God allows this to happen is beyond me, but it does? And even then, God has found ways to use things like this for good.
quote:
ORIGINAL: waitingforreturn
You cant twist that into being good
No death is good. please dont spin it.
I'm not the one spinning anything. I'm living in the real world, here.
< Message edited by TorchHeart -- 8/25/2008 3:45:32 PM >
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RE: Why Did God Create "Bad" Animals? - 8/25/2008 3:38:52 PM
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bluestone
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Fleas are here to give us jobs. Many humans are employed at flea collar factories.
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RE: Why Did God Create "Bad" Animals? - 8/25/2008 3:52:30 PM
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TorchHeart
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bluestone
Many humans are employed at flea collar factories.
They should send my dog, Caesar, a "Thank You" card.
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RE: Why Did God Create "Bad" Animals? - 8/25/2008 5:34:26 PM
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stellaluna
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I don't see how it could be possible for animals eating other animals to be bad.
Like it or not, there has to be checks and balances throughout nature. We cannot speculate what the earth would have been like without sin; but we do know that living things now put a strain on the ecosystem if not kept in check. Each predator is also prey--even humans.
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RE: Why Did God Create "Bad" Animals? - 8/25/2008 7:32:43 PM
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Jhud
Posts: 7843
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quote:
I don't see how it could be possible for animals eating other animals to be bad.
Like it or not, there has to be checks and balances throughout nature. We cannot speculate what the earth would have been like without sin; but we do know that living things now put a strain on the ecosystem if not kept in check. Each predator is also prey--even humans.
Well if I am potential prey, then some animals are definitely bad.
_____________________________
Jack
It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first..
- Ronald Reagan
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