Is not desiring to have children morally wrong? (Full Version)

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solo_soprano22 -> Is not desiring to have children morally wrong? (8/23/2008 4:49:31 PM)

Is it a sin to not desire having a child?

Are those who are called to remain childless supposed to desire children?

Does the Bible say that a desire for children is something that all Christians must have? (I'm not talking about such commands as children are blessings, therefore we must always want to have them.)

I'm looking at it from a neutral standpoint because I want to hear both "sides," and how various people think about it, but I *know* it can be discussed in a civil manner, even when people don't agree. And it's not about birth control, QF, etc. It's simply about the desire to have children...not how many, etc.



Conundrum -> RE: Is not desiring to have children morally wrong? (8/23/2008 4:59:25 PM)

Do you mean for the married or unmarried, or both/either?



LCannon -> RE: Is not desiring to have children morally wrong? (8/23/2008 5:07:13 PM)

Not being 'called' to be single or childless(is either a calling? I thought both are a circumstance.)Rearing children outside marriage with the exception of widowhood seems a oxymoron.



solo_soprano22 -> RE: Is not desiring to have children morally wrong? (8/23/2008 5:20:34 PM)

Conundrum, I guess the desire could go either way. You can desire them whether single or married (I know couples and singles alike who don't desire children).

By "called" to be childless, I meant God telling you that children aren't a part of His plan for your life...for whatever reason.



losgan -> RE: Is not desiring to have children morally wrong? (8/23/2008 5:28:16 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: solo_soprano22
By "called" to be childless, I meant God telling you that children aren't a part of His plan for your life...for whatever reason.


I believe that can certainly be the case! I have strong feelings lately that God is saying that children are part of His plan for my life ... but that I myself am to be barren. I feel assured I will have a "family" - just perhaps not in the traditional sense.



lightshineon -> RE: Is not desiring to have children morally wrong? (8/23/2008 8:35:26 PM)

Not sinful, but in old age lonliness might be hard.



SonInMe1 -> RE: Is not desiring to have children morally wrong? (8/23/2008 10:48:07 PM)

We all desire things that we don't truly understand.

For those who desire children, have you spent long hours with them? Have you changed diapers and fed a new born? Been with one all day and night, and all day and night and all day and all night?

Seen a child you care for deeply hurt.

Discipline a beloved child.

Talk with teachers...deal with your child's friends....his successes or defeats.

The ideal of child ownership does not line up with reality. Its a huge undertaking. A life long commitment..not just cutesy baby things.

I always wanted to be a father and have loved my children the best I could and I am afraid that I have come short. Is there a wrose feeling than loving someone with all your heart and not being all that you should have been?

Just a reality check. If you can push the emotions aside, think clearly...childbearing is as much a calling from God as being childless.



Child4Jesus -> RE: Is not desiring to have children morally wrong? (8/24/2008 12:27:54 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SonInMe1

We all desire things that we don't truly understand.

For those who desire children, have you spent long hours with them? Have you changed diapers and fed a new born? Been with one all day and night, and all day and night and all day and all night?

Seen a child you care for deeply hurt.

Discipline a beloved child.

Talk with teachers...deal with your child's friends....his successes or defeats.

The ideal of child ownership does not line up with reality. Its a huge undertaking. A life long commitment..not just cutesy baby things.

I always wanted to be a father and have loved my children the best I could and I am afraid that I have come short. Is there a wrose feeling than loving someone with all your heart and not being all that you should have been?

Just a reality check. If you can push the emotions aside, think clearly...childbearing is as much a calling from God as being childless.


I really don't believe these are reasons to not want children.



solo_soprano22 -> RE: Is not desiring to have children morally wrong? (8/24/2008 12:40:13 AM)

Here's what I'm getting at...but I was trying not to be so blunt.

As a Christian, if you don't desire children, then is that a sin? If so... where does the Bible say that we are supposed to desire children if we are Christians?



lw9 -> RE: Is not desiring to have children morally wrong? (8/24/2008 12:58:16 AM)

Hi solo_soprano. That's a really interesting question. For myself, I haven't read anything in the Bible that states remaining childless is a sin or that not having a desire to have children is sinful, so that's where I stand on the matter.



losgan -> RE: Is not desiring to have children morally wrong? (8/24/2008 7:16:50 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: solo_soprano22

Here's what I'm getting at...but I was trying not to be so blunt.

As a Christian, if you don't desire children, then is that a sin? If so... where does the Bible say that we are supposed to desire children if we are Christians?


God charges Adam and Even to "be fruitful and increase in number; multiply on the earth and increase upon it."

Some take that as a personal charge, and some people do hear that command from God - but it certainly wasn't aimed at everyone. In this verse, it is for two people. Nowhere does the Bible say that all who are married should have children - there are plenty of married couples who are barren.

Just an example - and I'm not saying it means they did NOT have any children - but Aquila and Priscilla are mentioned a lot in the new testament for their service to the early church and nothing is ever mentioned about children.

There are charges and advice given to married people and singles, and charges about raising children - but never any saying that it is evil not to desire children.



Child4Jesus -> RE: Is not desiring to have children morally wrong? (8/24/2008 9:35:05 AM)

I'm not advocating that married equals must have kids. On the other hand I find it very odd that a person wants to get married yet doesn't have kids even thought the ability is there (he or she is fertile).



losgan -> RE: Is not desiring to have children morally wrong? (8/24/2008 10:03:33 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Child4Jesus
On the other hand I find it very odd that a person wants to get married yet doesn't have kids even thought the ability is there (he or she is fertile).


Why is it that you find that odd? Because you feel differently and just don't understand the different point of view, or is there another reason?

Just curious. I tried to word it in a non-hostile way, that's the best I could do, he he :)



Hayseed -> RE: Is not desiring to have children morally wrong? (8/24/2008 11:28:19 AM)

It's not a sin to not want children. It's just a simple lifestyle preference. It's okay one way or the other.

I know many Christian couples that just didn't want to have kids and are just fine. Actually, I'm glad they had the sense to stand by their decision. I've seen too many split marriages and little "holy terrors" running around with people that gave in to the "Christian" peer-pressure on having kids.



SonInMe1 -> RE: Is not desiring to have children morally wrong? (8/24/2008 2:42:42 PM)

Neither position for married christians...kids or no kids....is spiritually superior.

Some may not be called to marriage.

Some may not be able to have children.

Is it possible that a bible believing Christ professing christian....should not....have children? They believe they are not equiped to be a parent? I don't know.

I know some people should not be parents....most are not wise enough to make that decisiuon before they have children.

I would guess, if you realize you would not make a good parent, it could be said to be wisdom not to have them.....its just awfully hard to make that decision without ever having children.



3cappuccinosmom -> RE: Is not desiring to have children morally wrong? (8/24/2008 2:59:38 PM)

I don't believe there is a "calling" to be childless seperate from the Biblical calling to celibacy.

While it's not a sin to not want children, viewing them as a hinderance, burden, bother, distraction, or whatever is unBiblical, and if that's the reason for the lack of desire, then the person needs to deal with their attitude towards children.



Child4Jesus -> RE: Is not desiring to have children morally wrong? (8/24/2008 9:03:43 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: 3cappuccinosmom
I don't believe there is a "calling" to be childless separate from the Biblical calling to celibacy.

While it's not a sin to not want children, viewing them as a hindrance, burden, bother, distraction, or whatever is unBiblical, and if that's the reason for the lack of desire, then the person needs to deal with their attitude towards children.


Exactly. This is what I believe also. I don't believe God created marriage without children in mind. I also think that procreation is the main reason for sex. Yes it is pleasurable but that is how I believe scripture comes across.



DreadPirateRandy -> RE: Is not desiring to have children morally wrong? (8/24/2008 9:39:42 PM)

What strikes me odd is that so many worry about having their own child, thereby producing more, when there's already thousands wishing someone would take them in to be adopted.

I don't have a desire for children right now. I'm sure that will eventually change. However, I feel no conviction whatsoever about my current preference.



Cloak -> RE: Is not desiring to have children morally wrong? (8/24/2008 9:58:54 PM)

I think having children goes hand in hand with marriage. There was a time in my life when we do not feel that I wanted to have any kids and that's understandable. However, desiring to mate and stay childless makes me think of some red flags to the person who does not want to have them. Granted there are people who should not have kids, particularly those who are abusive, emotionally unhealthy. Hence I recommend counseling or if someone is dating someone and they have no desire to have kids, I would highly recommend pre-marital counselling.



3cappuccinosmom -> RE: Is not desiring to have children morally wrong? (8/24/2008 10:04:00 PM)

quote:

What strikes me odd is that so many worry about having their own child, thereby producing more, when there's already thousands wishing someone would take them in to be adopted.


In my experience (purely anecdotal) it is the families who are more open to larger numbers of biological children who are also more open to adopting in larger numbers, sibling groups, etc. Maybe because if you already have 6 children, the idea of adding 3 more at once isn't quite so overwhelming as going from 0 to 3.
We get a magazine that is strongly "Quiverful" and it is so cool to see so many large families with maybe 6 bio children and 4 or 5 (or more!) children from Liberia or Haiti or China. [:D]



PaleHawkWoman -> RE: Is not desiring to have children morally wrong? (8/25/2008 12:27:51 AM)

No, I do not think it is sinful for anyone to not want children. There are married couples who might want to remain childless because it frees them to do more for Christ, such as become missionaries or be involved in other ministry work requiring a lot of time and sacrifice.

There are people who simply are not wired to be parents, and yes, that includes some christians. Those who recognize this and thus choose to not have children should not be castigated- their decision is their business and should be respected as such.

If sex was intended for procreation only, then we would be required by God's command to completely abstain from it once pregnant, or when not trying to get pregnant. So "mating" amongst humans is for more than just making babies. It is a part of establishing and maintaining emotional intimacy between a couple.

In this day and time social status and usefulness do not hinge upon the ability to bear children, and women are not condemned for failing to produce sons nor for being barren. Likewise men who are barren are not seen as failures or condemned for being "less" than a man.

With so many children needing adoptive and foster homes, maybe no one should be allowed to have any children until homes are found for these other children.



Child4Jesus -> RE: Is not desiring to have children morally wrong? (8/25/2008 12:37:52 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: PaleHawkWoman
No, I do not think it is sinful for anyone to not want children. There are married couples who might want to remain childless because it frees them to do more for Christ, such as become missionaries or be involved in other ministry work requiring a lot of time and sacrifice.

There are people who simply are not wired to be parents, and yes, that includes some Christians. Those who recognize this and thus choose to not have children should not be castigated- their decision is their business and should be respected as such.

If sex was intended for procreation only, then we would be required by God's command to completely abstain from it once pregnant, or when not trying to get pregnant. So "mating" amongst humans is for more than just making babies. It is a part of establishing and maintaining emotional intimacy between a couple.

In this day and time social status and usefulness do not hinge upon the ability to bear children, and women are not condemned for failing to produce sons nor for being barren. Likewise men who are barren are not seen as failures or condemned for being "less" than a man.

With so many children needing adoptive and foster homes, maybe no one should be allowed to have any children until homes are found for these other children.


I'm not sure where you got the idea that anyone was saying that sex is only for procreation. However it is obvious that that is the main reason. I agree that children can hinder one being a missionary and such. But so can having a husband or wife.



3cappuccinosmom -> RE: Is not desiring to have children morally wrong? (8/25/2008 2:12:51 PM)

quote:

I agree that children can hinder one being a missionary and such. But so can having a husband or wife.


And there is a Biblical prescription for someone who is called to focus entirely on the Lord/Lord's work and no-one else--single celibacy.

If they can "take on" the "hindrance" of a husband or wife, they can "take on" the "hindrance" of a blessing from God in the form of a child.

While having a spouse and children might possibly make things more difficult in certain situations, they would also provide a huge opportunity to ministry and Kingdom work as well.



solo_soprano22 -> RE: Is not desiring to have children morally wrong? (8/25/2008 2:26:39 PM)

Does the Bible say that marriage is only for raising children, and if God doesn't want you to have kids then that automatically means you remain single all your life? Can He not tell you to marry but have no children, because of specific reasons to that couple alone? How do you know that it's God's will for every married couple to have children? (I'm assuming God talks to the individual or couple about their own situations, and doesn't tell Joe and Jane down the street what he wants for their street-mates.)

The Bible may say these things; I'm genuinely asking just to know where this opinion comes from-- not that "this is what I think," but "this is what God says." (I understand personal opinion; oftentimes Christians say this comes straight from the Bible.)



PastorPatricia -> RE: Is not desiring to have children morally wrong? (8/25/2008 5:26:22 PM)

I believe it is a personal decision, if someone doesn't want children then they shouldn't have them. Personally I can't imagine not having children but if I'd known grandchildren were so much fun I'd have had them first.



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