|
Users viewing this topic:
none
|
|
Login  | |
|
RE: What Most CCM is Lacking - 8/27/2008 8:49:56 AM
|
|
|
mapachito13
Posts: 2498
Joined: 10/1/2007
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Stratplayer
I think that most people who listen to music are not truly music lovers and could care less aout the level of musicianship or the amount of creative thought that goes into creating a musical arrangement. They cold care less if a a bassline is played by a bass player or a MIDI file; music today is not made for musicians. Music is like a drug to some and all they want to do is get a fix. A while back, I read an article about how music is recorded today and how many of these techniqes actually loose some of the subtle dynamics that were part of the artist's vision; they actually record at very high levels so they can capture your attention (and it also is supposed to sound better on playback devices such as iPods that tend to use small headphones). It tells me that people are not really listening to music; they want something quick that will pick them up and get them moving or feeling a certain way. Since the emphasis is on loudnes and getting the listener to feel a ceratin way, theyre is a widespread lack of creativity across the board since artistry has become something of an afterthought and this is what most CCM lacks. Everything is presented in a neat package that is more or less guaranteed to produce a financial return.
Yes most people who listen aren't musicians and just want their emotional fix but this has been the way of music since man first experimented with sounds and rhythms. If you detach emotion from the music then you end up with some very technically proficient but very dry music.
The type of music that I like most is that which I can tell the musicians' heart, head and body is in synch; no matter the style. Unfortunately even though all CCM groups have God as their inspiration they don't seem to tap into that magnificent source of creativity!
_____________________________
Peace Sells....But Who's Buying!
"I would argue that the most serious threat to the United States is not someone hiding in a cave in Pakistan or Afghanistan, but our own fiscal irresponsibility."-David Walker, fmr comptroller general of the US
|
|
|
|
|
RE: What Most CCM is Lacking - 8/29/2008 11:18:23 PM
|
|
|
kencool99
Posts: 40
Joined: 8/12/2008
Status: offline
|
sometimes you have to kick down the door do what ya do.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: What Most CCM is Lacking - 8/31/2008 10:26:17 AM
|
|
|
danielmount
Posts: 7539
Joined: 2/28/2006
From: Ohio
Status: offline
|
My take on the original question:
More importantly than anything else, its original vision. Too many people in the industry have fixed their gaze on secular music as a standard to strive for, and they talk about breaking out of the "ghetto" of CCM.
That's quite a ways from the original vision of Jesus Music and early CCM.
_____________________________
Author of The Faith of America's Presidents
http://www.danielmount.com/
http://www.southerngospelblog.com/
|
|
|
|
|
RE: What Most CCM is Lacking - 8/31/2008 8:23:36 PM
|
|
|
gaylel1
Posts: 1282
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Southern California, the land of Fruit and nuts...
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: danielmount
My take on the original question:
More importantly than anything else, its original vision. Too many people in the industry have fixed their gaze on secular music as a standard to strive for, and they talk about breaking out of the "ghetto" of CCM.
That's quite a ways from the original vision of Jesus Music and early CCM.
Are you talking about folks in both CCM and Southern Gospel? because there are those in SG who also broke out of that "ghetto" too.(Elvis, Oak Ridge Boys, etc..) Just take one of your groups, Ernie Hasse and Signature Sound for instance. They are not your typcial SG group because they incorporate dance steps, something that the traditional SG community frowns upon--now many of the "rebels" of the industry are accepting of it now. And the Crabbs, including Jason to name a few.
But on the other side of the coin, Jesus did tell us we are to go into the world and share the gospel didn't he?
But getting back to the orginal posting, I believe the thing that CCM is lacking (but I think that they are improving too) is words which relates to the saving power of Jesus Christ. There are bands (Leeland, Casting Crowns, etc...) has been singing about this and I do admire them for their commitment to reach the youth. Leeland, in one of their songs about the "Tears of the Saints" is like a altar call, because one of their verses says, "This is an emergency", meaning to accept Jesus Christ before it is too late.
This is why I love this band and many others who are trying to spread the gospel. I just wish many of our CCM bands follow their example.
_____________________________
Hear "The Truth" with the "other"l Jeff Johnson(http://www.calvarydowney.org)
Visit me at http:www.gayleplace.blogspot.com or http://www.myspace.com/gaylel121
|
|
|
|
|
RE: What Most CCM is Lacking - 9/1/2008 7:12:38 AM
|
|
|
danielmount
Posts: 7539
Joined: 2/28/2006
From: Ohio
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: gaylel1
Are you talking about folks in both CCM and Southern Gospel?
No, I'm not really talking about Southern Gospel. Elvis wanted to sing Southern Gospel, but he was turned down when he applied for a quartet. Since he never was a Southern Gospel performer, I don't count him as one. He was a secular performer who sometimes sang gospel numgers.
The Oak Ridge Boys did go secular, I don't deny that. However, in their case, they pretty much had to turn their back on the industry and burn their bridges to do it. The industry didn't accept it as a good thing.
Ernie Haase & Signature Sound are still singing Southern Gospel music, even though they do choreography. If they started doing secular music, then yes, I'd have a problem with it.
I follow Southern Gospel pretty closely, and there is basically no talk about breaking out of the ghetto in this genre. There's a much more widespread view here that you can't find any better kind of music than Gospel music, and any better kind of success than seeing souls saved. Certainly some groups in CCM still have a vision, but I think that the genre as a whole stepped somewhat away from that vision in the mid-90s, when they re-wrote the mission statement of the Gospel Music Association and changed the Dove Awards eligibility requirements.
_____________________________
Author of The Faith of America's Presidents
http://www.danielmount.com/
http://www.southerngospelblog.com/
|
|
|
|
|
RE: What Most CCM is Lacking - 9/1/2008 2:12:41 PM
|
|
|
humbleinspirit
Posts: 17966
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: Just Outside of Boston
Status: offline
|
quote:
The Oak Ridge Boys did go secular, I don't deny that. However, in their case, they pretty much had to turn their back on the industry and burn their bridges to do it. The industry didn't accept it as a good thing.
Now didn't they have song called Dr. Jesus or something, that the industry rejected?
_____________________________
|
|
|
|
|
RE: What Most CCM is Lacking - 9/1/2008 8:24:44 PM
|
|
|
danielmount
Posts: 7539
Joined: 2/28/2006
From: Ohio
Status: offline
|
Not sure on specific songs. But when they started doing more secular stuff and phasing the Gospel out, the industry had a big problem with that.
_____________________________
Author of The Faith of America's Presidents
http://www.danielmount.com/
http://www.southerngospelblog.com/
|
|
|
|
|
RE: What Most CCM is Lacking - 9/1/2008 10:33:53 PM
|
|
|
rlj
Posts: 2144
Joined: 4/14/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
Much of CCM is ill-arranged and produced. It's the difference between oh, let's say Queen's Night at the Opera and a garage band demo.
Now, before I get totally run-over and blasted...let me say that there are some bands who are awesome...Third Day, Petra, maybe Mercy Me.
BUT...if I were to compare Metallica's Black Album to Skillet, well...Metallica would win hands-down. The musicianship, the production, far superior.
I agree with the production values (or lack thereof) hands down. I just bought a used copy of Kim Hill's "Braveheart" from 1991 and it has some of the same session musicians, singers, production and engineering people that Amy Grant had on "Heart in Motion". AG sells a zillion albums and other than HiS who even knows that Kim Hill had an album called Braveheart?
_____________________________
-Roger
This is who I'm voting for. He is from the same party I voted for last time. This is consistent with my belief in the failure of the two party system and my disgust with it.
http://www.baldwin08.com/#
|
|
|
|
|
RE: What Most CCM is Lacking - 9/1/2008 10:37:59 PM
|
|
|
humbleinspirit
Posts: 17966
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: Just Outside of Boston
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: danielmount
Not sure on specific songs. But when they started doing more secular stuff and phasing the Gospel out, the industry had a big problem with that.
quote:
ORIGINAL: rlj
quote:
Much of CCM is ill-arranged and produced. It's the difference between oh, let's say Queen's Night at the Opera and a garage band demo.
Now, before I get totally run-over and blasted...let me say that there are some bands who are awesome...Third Day, Petra, maybe Mercy Me.
BUT...if I were to compare Metallica's Black Album to Skillet, well...Metallica would win hands-down. The musicianship, the production, far superior.
I agree with the production values (or lack thereof) hands down. I just bought a used copy of Kim Hill's "Braveheart" from 1991 and it has some of the same session musicians, singers, production and engineering people that Amy Grant had on "Heart in Motion". AG sells a zillion albums and other than HiS who even knows that Kim Hill had an album called Braveheart?
Now that was a good album! I think that the only song that people may remember from it "Don't Face The World Alone".
_____________________________
|
|
|
|
|
RE: What Most CCM is Lacking - 9/3/2008 11:10:23 AM
|
|
|
DaveW
Posts: 4073
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: MD suburbs of Washington DC
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: mapachito13quote:
I would love to hear sitar and the bowed instruements from China and Japan incorportated. If I ever do another recording, it will have viola da gamba on it and maybe a chinese ocarina. And that's the type of thinking that should be encouraged to keep it fresh but too many Christian artists want the same old same old. Let us know if you do record DaveW. I, for one, would love to give it a listen! Did you listen to my album linked at the bottom of my posts? You might want to check out Psalm 150 - its done Cajun with my wife playing the squeeze box....
_____________________________
Avatar is Saphira 5 months and Louvena at 23 months!
We are now grandparents TWICE!!
====================================
Our CD is now available here:
http://cdbaby.com/cd/dswaggoner
|
|
|
|
|
RE: What Most CCM is Lacking - 9/3/2008 11:24:46 AM
|
|
|
tafkam
Posts: 2143
Joined: 9/23/2005
Status: offline
|
Late to this thread, but I would just say that there is a considerable amount of artistry that is missing from CCM. We've all heard the CCM bands that are just bad clones of secular bands, but now it's even worse, CCM bands are cloning each other! I tune into Gospel Music Channel and literally cannot tell where one band ends and another starts.
True there are some artists out there, but much of what I see on the current scene is simply bland and uninspiring....
_____________________________
"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.' - Ronald Reagan
Tafkam
|
|
|
|
|
RE: What Most CCM is Lacking - 9/3/2008 12:08:16 PM
|
|
|
freakofnature
Posts: 819
Joined: 1/17/2008
Status: offline
|
quote:
True there are some artists out there, but much of what I see on the current scene is simply bland and uninspiring....
Well... Let's fix it. Any ideas? Alot of people are indicating that there is indeed a problem but no one has really pinpointed what it is? What is it and what can be done to fix it? Are Christians just bad artist? or... OR is what we view as art distracted and skewed by what the world considers art to be? I think that for too long the Christian community has been sheltered from art and there should be more art education and a renaissance in the Christian Community, but as long as that is suppressed and no one in the Christian community can be so forward thinking it will remain in an "artistic" rut.
And look, for the record I don't necessarily think that it is all bad. I mean define CCM, are we talking just like Casting Crowns and Steven Curtis Chapman or going to the extremes with groups such as Underoath and Red? And if so then their(Casting Crowns and Chapman) whole reason for being isn't music first, they wish to spread the Gospel through music putting the message first, they see themselves more as missionaries. I think once you get out of that genre you will maybe find some better musicianship and artistry. I guess we need to consider and refocus our thoughts on what these CCM groups are trying to accomplish more than to complain about how bad they are. For what they do, they are sufficient, if you don't care for it then don't care for it, I don't think the industry as a whole will worry if you don't buy the latest copy of MercyMe new album.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: What Most CCM is Lacking - 9/3/2008 12:39:16 PM
|
|
|
DaveW
Posts: 4073
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: MD suburbs of Washington DC
Status: offline
|
Bland and uninspired will not be effective as missionary work. Anyone who wants to do that must do what the world does and do it better. I am talking music style, not lifestyle. Doing what the world does musically will get you on the radar screen. Doing it better will get you attention. Then you present the gospel.
This approach worked well for Paul Clark back in the 80s.
_____________________________
Avatar is Saphira 5 months and Louvena at 23 months!
We are now grandparents TWICE!!
====================================
Our CD is now available here:
http://cdbaby.com/cd/dswaggoner
|
|
|
|
|
RE: What Most CCM is Lacking - 9/3/2008 12:46:21 PM
|
|
|
uncabeeil
Posts: 5782
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Joisey. Got a problem wit dat?
Status: offline
|
quote:
Well... Let's fix it. Any ideas? Convince the people running the major labels to take a chance on something different. Have them work at Tooth & Nail or BEC for a while to get the right mindset.
_____________________________
Pretty leaves are falling down,
Green, orange, yellow and brown.
Here comes one colored red,
It landed on my head.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: What Most CCM is Lacking - 9/3/2008 1:46:43 PM
|
|
|
mapachito13
Posts: 2498
Joined: 10/1/2007
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: uncabeeil
quote:
Well... Let's fix it. Any ideas? Convince the people running the major labels to take a chance on something different. Have them work at Tooth & Nail or BEC for a while to get the right mindset.
And have some artists forced to listen to some "out of the box" CCM or secular music so they can be inspired!
BTW, today's sniglet has me looking at that actor Don Cheadle in a totally different way!  He's associated with the snack from now on!
_____________________________
Peace Sells....But Who's Buying!
"I would argue that the most serious threat to the United States is not someone hiding in a cave in Pakistan or Afghanistan, but our own fiscal irresponsibility."-David Walker, fmr comptroller general of the US
|
|
|
|
|
RE: What Most CCM is Lacking - 9/3/2008 8:51:30 PM
|
|
|
freakofnature
Posts: 819
Joined: 1/17/2008
Status: offline
|
quote:
Bland and uninspired will not be effective as missionary work.
Okay Dave, but it seems to be working for Casting Crowns and Steven Curtis Chapman well enough to have earned them plenty of awards in and out of the Christian Community and album sales have been "through the roof." Please to esplain!  (in comparison to other CCM groups)
|
|
|
|
|
RE: What Most CCM is Lacking - 9/24/2008 2:34:28 AM
|
|
|
bucsnut18
Posts: 7
Joined: 9/24/2008
Status: offline
|
The fact of the matter is that CCM DOES filter out the truly creative and original bands. They won't put anything interesting on the radio... it's just a fact, that art and creativity doesn't matter to CCM radio stations. The main reason all you're hearing is electric guitar and vocals is because when a band submits a single to the radio, the first thing they do is crank the vocals and sometimes the guitar, and turn everything else down. Sad, but true.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: What Most CCM is Lacking - 9/24/2008 2:35:35 AM
|
|
|
bucsnut18
Posts: 7
Joined: 9/24/2008
Status: offline
|
When I say they crank the vocals and guitar, I mean they REMIX the songs to their standards... just to clear that up. :D
|
|
|
|
|
RE: What Most CCM is Lacking - 9/24/2008 2:38:45 AM
|
|
|
bucsnut18
Posts: 7
Joined: 9/24/2008
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: uncabeeil
quote:
Well... Let's fix it. Any ideas? Convince the people running the major labels to take a chance on something different. Have them work at Tooth & Nail or BEC for a while to get the right mindset.
This really is the only option. I know it for a fact... I am a professional band working for one of the biggest companies in Nashville... and they're target audience is 35 year old soccer Moms who don't care about music, they just care about lyrics that are easy to understand... straight from the mouth of a record exec. :(
Nothing against 35 year old soccer Moms... but that is what CCM's target audience is.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: What Most CCM is Lacking - 9/24/2008 9:41:48 AM
|
|
|
NotDoneYet
Posts: 288
Joined: 12/11/2007
From: Virginia
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: bucsnut18
quote:
ORIGINAL: uncabeeil
quote:
Well... Let's fix it. Any ideas? Convince the people running the major labels to take a chance on something different. Have them work at Tooth & Nail or BEC for a while to get the right mindset.
This really is the only option. I know it for a fact... I am a professional band working for one of the biggest companies in Nashville... and they're target audience is 35 year old soccer Moms who don't care about music, they just care about lyrics that are easy to understand... straight from the mouth of a record exec. :(
Nothing against 35 year old soccer Moms... but that is what CCM's target audience is.
No wonder I can't stand CCM...I'm a 44 year old, headbanging, professional mom!!!!!
NDY
_____________________________
Remember, normal is just a setting on the dryer!
Ranting and raving: diaryofaravingmom.blogspot.com
|
|
|
|
|
RE: What Most CCM is Lacking - 9/24/2008 1:39:18 PM
|
|
|
freakofnature
Posts: 819
Joined: 1/17/2008
Status: offline
|
quote:
I am a professional band working for one of the biggest companies in Nashville... and they're target audience is 35 year old soccer Moms who don't care about music, they just care about lyrics that are easy to understand... straight from the mouth of a record exec. :(
Nothing against 35 year old soccer Moms... but that is what CCM's target audience is.
This is exactly what I have always said, that there isn't really a problem with CCM. They, see their target market, and they are going after their target market and really, they are getting it! Well I guess I should say that maybe that is WHAT IS WRONG with CCM, it is all about marketing!!! So the record companies are the ones that need to change what they are after. I don't blame the bands in reality, it is the record companies, the bands are just trying to make a living. What is it we dislike about groups like New Kids On The Block, or Backstreet Boys... They are produced by the record companies for target markets and they are created in a board room, that seems to be what is happening here in CCM.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: What Most CCM is Lacking - 9/24/2008 2:42:10 PM
|
|
|
uncabeeil
Posts: 5782
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Joisey. Got a problem wit dat?
Status: offline
|
"We are Word. You will be assimilated. Resistance is futile."
_____________________________
Pretty leaves are falling down,
Green, orange, yellow and brown.
Here comes one colored red,
It landed on my head.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: What Most CCM is Lacking - 9/24/2008 4:07:04 PM
|
|
|
mapachito13
Posts: 2498
Joined: 10/1/2007
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: uncabeeil
"We are Word. You will be assimilated. Resistance is futile."
My drone name shall be 12 of 9.
Oh wait! The smaller number comes first? I knew I should have studied fractions more in school!
_____________________________
Peace Sells....But Who's Buying!
"I would argue that the most serious threat to the United States is not someone hiding in a cave in Pakistan or Afghanistan, but our own fiscal irresponsibility."-David Walker, fmr comptroller general of the US
|
|
|
|
|
RE: What Most CCM is Lacking - 9/24/2008 9:20:13 PM
|
|
|
bucsnut18
Posts: 7
Joined: 9/24/2008
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: uncabeeil
"We are Word. You will be assimilated. Resistance is futile."
Haha, good call... it's Word we're working with and who said that.
|
|
|
|
|
Forum Tools
Printable Version
