RE: Will lowering the drinking age reduce binge drinking?
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RE: Will lowering the drinking age reduce binge drinking? - 8/26/2008 5:01:27 AM
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FurGodWurLivin
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I think the only thing lowering the drinking age would help is that it would lower the number of people drinking underage...... Yes, I'm joking.
Here is my whole thought on it. I don't want someone getting smashed/hammered drunk for the first time, and then going to vote for the first time. Florida had enough trouble with the old people trying to figure the machines out, drunk teenagers would just exacerbate the problem.
Not to forget that seperating the age of drinking and military recruitment also reduces the possibility of somebody getting drunk and telling their equally drunk buddies "let's go sign up for the marines!" It's amazing what a drunk thinks is a good idea.
Adam
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RE: Will lowering the drinking age reduce binge drinking? - 8/26/2008 7:05:50 AM
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bzirk
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Whether the military has strict rules about drinking or not is not the point. The idea that we can recognize someone as mature enough to make choices about the leadership of this country or mature enough to sign up for something as serious as military service, which could ultimately take their lives, and yet not consider them mature enough to make a decision about alcohol is ludicrous.
However, I'm not for 18 year olds being allowed to drink legally. But then I'm also not for 18 year olds being able to vote or make their own choices about signing up for military service. If it isn't obvious, I don't think 18 should be the magic number for reaching majority.
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RE: Will lowering the drinking age reduce binge drinking? - 8/26/2008 7:47:47 AM
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iluvatar
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Rockwall
There aren't enough teen deaths so let's up the ante and increase the number of impaired drivers on the road.
Is it that simple? Is the outright banning of a substance (even within a certain age group) the best way to curb its use? As we've seen with prohibition and the war on drugs, people will find a way to get what they want and because the act of obtaining that substance is illegal, there are often some unintended side-effects. In the case of prohibition and drugs, that side-effect was a dangerous black market and the use of gov't resources trying to combat it. The campaign against smoking, however, has been more effective, because it was targeted at the culture and at minimizing its use in public spaces.
I wonder if there's a better way to curb teen drinking (particularly binge drinking) than to just make it illegal.
-Dan.
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RE: Will lowering the drinking age reduce binge drinking? - 8/26/2008 8:12:12 AM
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SonInMe1
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SonInMe1
When I was 18 I drank and did drugs to "get a date".
Maybe the way to stop binge drinking would be to legalize prostitution?
Dude, you are seriously warped!
No more warped than someone suggesting lowering the drinking age will result in less drinking.
I am not sure we deprive a young man anything by denying him alcohol but letting him serve in the military...esspecially in a volunteer force. If a young soldier dies without ever having a drink...is that a tragedy?
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RE: Will lowering the drinking age reduce binge drinking? - 8/26/2008 9:04:03 AM
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mapachito13
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The trouble with this country and alcohol is that everything has to be done to excess. Pushing the envelope in everything is encouraged in our society. Everything, including our sports have to be "extreme" or "ultimate". I don't know if dropping the age will be enough to make this problem go away.
The media encourages this "extreme" societal behavior. There's another "Animal House" style movie coming out that will be another example to kids that being irresponsible in college is the "cool" thing to do.
I think they need to lower it to 18 for only one reason. If they are legally old enough to vote, die for their country and sign contracts, they are old enough to drink. Otherwise we need to make the right to vote, sign contracts, and enlist at a minimum age of 21. IMO raising the age of the those is more reasonable.
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RE: Will lowering the drinking age reduce binge drinking? - 8/26/2008 9:17:46 AM
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bluestone
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I agree that we dont encourage moderation in much of anything in the USA. We are like the ancient Romans, when we should be more like the Greeks.
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RE: Will lowering the drinking age reduce binge drinking? - 8/26/2008 10:11:09 AM
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lexie
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The drinking age here is 19 and I'm sure statistics regarding binge drinking, alcohol related fatalities etc, are very similar. Which tells me that it's not so much the age of the person, but the fact that they are now free from restrictions on drinking.
At university, most freshmen are of the legal age to drink (or were when I was there). What did I witness during frosh week? A whole lot of drunken kids who thought, finally my parents can't get mad at me for this. But most of those kids were drinking long before they went to university....many high school kids are already drinking and now starting much earlier.
I think attitudes towards alcohol need to change. Someone brought up the comparison of Europe. I grew up with a European father who thought nothing of teens having a glass of wine with dinner, or beer during a baseball game. Alcohol wasn't taboo in our home, and when I went to parties where my friends were all drinking because they had access to alcohol, I did not see the lure of it all. By the time I was of legal drinking age and could go to bars, I knew what my tolerance level was and didn't go over it.
I'm not saying that everyone should allow their teens to drink in the home, but I know many people who will admit that a lot of their drinking was because of the fact it was taboo growing up and they were finally free to do it.
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RE: Will lowering the drinking age reduce binge drinking? - 8/26/2008 10:19:07 AM
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Sophie11
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mapachito13
The trouble with this country and alcohol is that everything has to be done to excess. Pushing the envelope in everything is encouraged in our society. Everything, including our sports have to be "extreme" or "ultimate". I don't know if dropping the age will be enough to make this problem go away.
The media encourages this "extreme" societal behavior. There's another "Animal House" style movie coming out that will be another example to kids that being irresponsible in college is the "cool" thing to do.
I think they need to lower it to 18 for only one reason. If they are legally old enough to vote, die for their country and sign contracts, they are old enough to drink. Otherwise we need to make the right to vote, sign contracts, and enlist at a minimum age of 21. IMO raising the age of the those is more reasonable.
I agree with this entirely.
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RE: Will lowering the drinking age reduce binge drinking? - 8/26/2008 10:22:31 AM
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JimboFletch
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I joined the military at age 19 during the Vietnam War and I could neither vote nor drink by law. I cannot speak for anyone else, but neither my younger fellow servicemen nor I were mature enough to do either.
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RE: Will lowering the drinking age reduce binge drinking? - 8/26/2008 1:32:22 PM
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HighPlainsDrifter
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It isn't just the military, or even voting, but you are perfectly able to take on up to hundreds of thousands of dollars in school loans that you can never, ever escape when you turn 18. You can enter into binding contracts, and you will be held fully responsible for the laws you break, and punished accordingly, also.
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RE: Will lowering the drinking age reduce binge drinking? - 8/26/2008 3:24:52 PM
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JimboFletch
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quote:
ORIGINAL: HighPlainsDrifter
It isn't just the military, or even voting, but you are perfectly able to take on up to hundreds of thousands of dollars in school loans that you can never, ever escape when you turn 18. You can enter into binding contracts, and you will be held fully responsible for the laws you break, and punished accordingly, also.
That's true now, but back then, I needed a co-signer to buy a car before I was 21. Remarkably, I survived not drinking or getting in over my head in debt.
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RE: Will lowering the drinking age reduce binge drinking? - 8/26/2008 3:35:47 PM
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cow451
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
I joined the military at age 19 during the Vietnam War and I could neither vote nor drink by law. I cannot speak for anyone else, but neither my younger fellow servicemen nor I were mature enough to do either.
Were you mature enough to carry out your duties?
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RE: Will lowering the drinking age reduce binge drinking? - 8/26/2008 3:47:27 PM
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cow451
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Rockwall
quote:
ORIGINAL: cow451
quote:
ORIGINAL: PaleHawkWoman
At age 18 very few "young adults" have the mental/emotional maturity to behave responsiblywhenit comes to alcohol consumption. They think, "Hey, I'm legal- I can drink all I want!"
Most deaths for people in the 18-21 age group are from accidents and mostof those involve drinking.
Lowering the age limit will NOT reduce binge drinking amongst those 18-21.
I shudder to think what will happen on the roads if these kids can legally get their hands on booze.
Do you have a source for your stats?
Here's one about traffic fatalities:
Safety belts and air bags saved about 18,000 lives in 2004, while the legal drinking age saved less than 2,000, according to data from the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration.
You do know that the source you posted is by the "Choose Responsibility", the same group who is behind the manifesto from the OP's link? Not exactly an unbiased source.
A few points to ponder:
- Among male drivers between 15 and 20 years of age who were involved in fatal crashes in 2005, 38% were speeding at the time of the crash and 24% had been drinking
- At all levels of blood alcohol concentration (BAC), the risk of involvement in a motor vehicle crash is greater for teens than for older drivers.
- In 2005, 23% of drivers ages 15 to 20 who died in motor vehicle crashes had a BAC of 0.08 g/dl or higher
- In 2005, three out of four teen drivers killed in motor vehicle crashes after drinking and driving were not wearing a seat belt.
http://www.cdc.gov/ncipc/factsheets/teenmvh.htm#how%20big%20is%20problem
There aren't enough teen deaths so let's up the ante and increase the number of impaired drivers on the road.
Your stats are more age-related. The logical outcome would be that the driving age should be raised.
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RE: Will lowering the drinking age reduce binge drinking? - 8/26/2008 4:10:28 PM
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SwedishCovenant
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It is a sad commentary indeed when one's position can be that it requires more maturity to have a drink than to kill a fellow human being.
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RE: Will lowering the drinking age reduce binge drinking? - 8/26/2008 4:43:38 PM
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allisonbrett
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Americans seem to have a much different aspect on drinking than Europeans. When I was in Europe, it wasn't uncommon for people to have wine, beer or a drink during the day with meals, etc. Here in the US we have a very different attitude. It's not uncommon here for people to drink solely to get stupid drunk whereas in Europe, getting drunk isn't the purpose or motive to drinking. I personally know people in their 30's that still set out on weekends to see just how drunk they can get. These people are gainfully employed, married and parents and yet still play drinking games.
If the binge drinking was confined to those 18 - 20 and subsided at the age of 21 then I'd say yea, we might want to think about changing the age limit but lets face it. Binge drinking doesn't go away with turning 21. You still see idiots attempt alcohol poisoning by the droves and they are often older. I don't see lowering the age as being a solution to anything other than allowing often very immature people to legally get drunk and look stupid while doing it. And then still risk driving while under the influence.
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RE: Will lowering the drinking age reduce binge drinking? - 8/26/2008 4:46:01 PM
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colliefan
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SwedishCovenant
It is a sad commentary indeed when one's position can be that it requires more maturity to have a drink than to kill a fellow human being.
I would imagine that someone who has been in the military has far more maturity than your average frat boy.
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RE: Will lowering the drinking age reduce binge drinking? - 8/26/2008 5:09:57 PM
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HighPlainsDrifter
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quote:
Americans seem to have a much different aspect on drinking than Europeans. When I was in Europe, it wasn't uncommon for people to have wine, beer or a drink during the day with meals, etc.
I suppose it makes a difference as to exactly which Europeans you're with. I've spent time with a few Europeans in college. Two Norwegians, a Dane, a few Germans and a Finn, to be exact. None of them I encountered seemed to have the slightest qualm about seriously tying one on, and did on a regular basis, just like most of us. Also, the rate of alcoholism is higher in much of Europe than it is here which would seem to nullify any perceived advantage they'd enjoy on their attitudes about strong drink.
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RE: Will lowering the drinking age reduce binge drinking? - 8/26/2008 6:02:58 PM
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cow451
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:
ORIGINAL: SwedishCovenant
It is a sad commentary indeed when one's position can be that it requires more maturity to have a drink than to kill a fellow human being.
Any 12 year-old juvenile delinquent can get snockered. I just hope you're glad I was sober while guarding nuclear weapons.
So, a 19-year-old is mature enough to guard nuclear weapons but not mature enough to have a beer?
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RE: Will lowering the drinking age reduce binge drinking? - 8/26/2008 6:37:47 PM
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mapachito13
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cow451
quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:
ORIGINAL: SwedishCovenant
It is a sad commentary indeed when one's position can be that it requires more maturity to have a drink than to kill a fellow human being.
Any 12 year-old juvenile delinquent can get snockered. I just hope you're glad I was sober while guarding nuclear weapons.
So, a 19-year-old is mature enough to guard nuclear weapons but not mature enough to have a beer?
If maturity was a quantifiable thing it would make this easier but age limits are trying to put a number on something unmeasurable. I've seen more sense from my 11 year old than many business CEO's and politicians many decades his senior!
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"I would argue that the most serious threat to the United States is not someone hiding in a cave in Pakistan or Afghanistan, but our own fiscal irresponsibility."-David Walker, fmr comptroller general of the US
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RE: Will lowering the drinking age reduce binge drinking? - 8/26/2008 6:53:53 PM
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bzirk
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quote:
ORIGINAL: HighPlainsDrifter
quote:
Americans seem to have a much different aspect on drinking than Europeans. When I was in Europe, it wasn't uncommon for people to have wine, beer or a drink during the day with meals, etc.
I suppose it makes a difference as to exactly which Europeans you're with. I've spent time with a few Europeans in college. Two Norwegians, a Dane, a few Germans and a Finn, to be exact. None of them I encountered seemed to have the slightest qualm about seriously tying one on, and did on a regular basis, just like most of us. Also, the rate of alcoholism is higher in much of Europe than it is here which would seem to nullify any perceived advantage they'd enjoy on their attitudes about strong drink.
That's what I've understood -- that the rate of alcoholism is higher in Europe. So it's far from being an example of how we ought to do things.
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may the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, so you will abound in hope by the power of the Holy Spirit. Romans 15:13
Great quote: I just ain't God and don't know it all. -- SonInMe1
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RE: Will lowering the drinking age reduce binge drinking? - 8/26/2008 8:16:58 PM
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SonInMe1
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I am not sure its maturity TO drink.
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James 4:4
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RE: Will lowering the drinking age reduce binge drinking? - 8/26/2008 8:57:40 PM
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agapetos
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quote:
I've spent time with a few Europeans in college. Two Norwegians, a Dane, a few Germans and a Finn, to be exact. Please don't base your knowledge of these countries, and especially of all Europe, on the very few people that you spent time with in college.
quote:
That's what I've understood -- that the rate of alcoholism is higher in Europe. So it's far from being an example of how we ought to do things. Not necessarily so. Some countries may have learnt from the rate of alcoholism in their country and developed stratigies to deal with things, so may be more advanced in dealing with the problem than countries with seemingly less of a problem.
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RE: Will lowering the drinking age reduce binge drinking? - 8/26/2008 9:06:58 PM
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ddave12000
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I don't think lowering the drinking age will reduce binge drinking. When I was in highschool, there was a party every night that you could get hammered at if you chose to.
I do however, think it's completely illogical to have the drinking age set to 21. Either the drinking age should be lowered, or the "adult" age should be raised so they're one and the same.
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