Those who are separated from the love of God (Full Version)

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cih92 -> Those who are separated from the love of God (8/22/2008 9:31:59 PM)

Romans 8:31-39 teaches that nothing can separate us from the love of God. I have heard that this passage is talking about believers only because those who will spend an eternity in hell will be separated from the love of God. Is there anywhere in the Bible that teaches that those who will spend an eternity in hell will be separated from the love of God?



drmark -> RE: Those who are separated from the love of God (8/22/2008 11:01:02 PM)

If you believe that the Love of God as demonstrated by His prevenient grace is available to everyone, then the Romans passage applies to unbelievers as well. Is there anywhere in the Bible that teaches the Love of God is present in Hell? Mark 9:42-48 seems convincing enough to me!



steve7150 -> RE: Those who are separated from the love of God (8/23/2008 9:01:25 AM)

quote:

If you believe that the Love of God as demonstrated by His prevenient grace is available to everyone, then the Romans passage applies to unbelievers as well. Is there anywhere in the Bible that teaches the Love of God is present in Hell? Mark 9:42-48 seems convincing enough to me!





If you read the passages in Rev20-22 after folks are thrown into the lake of fire it does'nt sound like the traditional belief to me re the eternal fate of unbelievers. And Jesus holds the key to death/hades/lake of fire not Satan.



drmark -> RE: Those who are separated from the love of God (8/23/2008 9:32:14 PM)

I'm sorry, Steve, but I'm not following you on this. Rev 20:10 states that Satan, the beast, and the false prophet "will tormented day and night forever and ever". In 20:14 we find death and Hades also thrown into the burning lake of sulfur. What about these passages does not "sound like the traditional belief" to you concerning the "eternal fate of unbelievers"?



LCannon -> RE: Those who are separated from the love of God (8/23/2008 9:56:53 PM)

Paul(and others)teaches that nothing can separate us from the love of God and since that's true the risk is borne by the individual. Matthew 7:21-"Not every one who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you evildoers.’



MrFribbles -> RE: Those who are separated from the love of God (8/23/2008 10:53:39 PM)

quote:

Paul(and others)teaches that nothing can separate us from the love of God and since that's true the risk is borne by the individual.


Are we nothing?



TrustingGod -> RE: Those who are separated from the love of God (8/23/2008 11:28:44 PM)

Who was Paul talking to? The church in Rome - believers.



Sammy_S -> RE: Those who are separated from the love of God (8/24/2008 4:49:15 AM)

They will be separated from God's love,But as we speak unbelievers are separated from his love as well..



drmark -> RE: Those who are separated from the love of God (8/24/2008 8:45:48 AM)

quote:

They will be separated from God's love,But as we speak unbelievers are separated from his love as well..
Not so, Sammy. Ephesians 1:4 makes it clear that God has loved all of us, even from before the creation of the world. 1 John 4:9-10 defines love as God's atoning Sacrifice for the whole world. In that way, God loves unbelievers even more than us Christians because they have yet to accept His loving grace!



steve7150 -> RE: Those who are separated from the love of God (8/24/2008 9:03:43 AM)

quote:

I'm sorry, Steve, but I'm not following you on this. Rev 20:10 states that Satan, the beast, and the false prophet "will tormented day and night forever and ever". In 20:14 we find death and Hades also thrown into the burning lake of sulfur. What about these passages does not "sound like the traditional belief" to you concerning the "eternal fate of unbelievers"?





drmark, If anyone considers that God who is love and has mercy as one of His
attributes may have something beyond eternal torment in mind for most of his creation there is plenty of evidence. After unbelievers are in the lake of fire which is after Christ's second coming we still see conditional verses like,
"And the Spirit and the bride say, Come and let him who hears say come. And let him who is thirsty , come. And whosoever will , let him take the water of life freely." Rev 22.17.



drmark -> RE: Those who are separated from the love of God (8/24/2008 9:24:32 AM)

Umm, okay Steve. That's why Revelation should not be read as chronological history! As I posted above in #2, I fail to see any "conditional verses" anywhere in the Bible that offer hope for changing the eternal status of those residing in Hell after Judgement. The condemned are eternally separated from God's Love at that time and place.



Carico -> RE: Those who are separated from the love of God (8/25/2008 10:19:47 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: cih92

Romans 8:31-39 teaches that nothing can separate us from the love of God. I have heard that this passage is talking about believers only because those who will spend an eternity in hell will be separated from the love of God. Is there anywhere in the Bible that teaches that those who will spend an eternity in hell will be separated from the love of God?


Yes. Luke 12;9, John 3:18, Matthew 26:31-26, for starters. And The OT is filled with verses saying the wicked will be cast out of God's presence forever.



frankman -> RE: Those who are separated from the love of God (8/25/2008 4:55:40 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sammy_S

They will be separated from God's love,But as we speak unbelievers are separated from his love as well..


[sm=icon_smile_question.gif] Why did Christ die for us on the cross? Christ died for us on the cross because for God so loved the world. Then Rom.5:8 tells us "But God demonstrated His own love for us in this. While we were still sinners, Christ died for us." God so loves unbelievers while they are still unbelievers, trusting that this love for us while we are still sinners will draw us to Him and cause us to accept His saving faith.

[sm=fireanger.gif] However if we die in our unbelief God`s love for us turns to wrath. Rom.1:18 states "The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickednes of men who suppress the truth by their wichedness." Here God hates the sin but still loves the sinner. However it gets worse. Rom.2:5 talks about God`s eternal wrath on the unbeliever for failure to believe in Him while the opportunity was there in this life. "But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God`s wrath, when His righteous judgment will be revealed."



Thessa -> RE: Those who are separated from the love of God (8/26/2008 2:46:54 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sammy_S

They will be separated from God's love,But as we speak unbelievers are separated from his love as well..



I agree. Because unbelievers are separating themselves.



yustme -> RE: Those who are separated from the love of God (8/26/2008 3:57:40 PM)

WE ARE N-E-V-E-R SEPARATED FROM GOD'S LOVE.NOT EVER! Even If we choose hell over God.Those who are In hell,or end up In hell are still not separated from His love,just separated from God.



drmark -> RE: Those who are separated from the love of God (8/26/2008 4:04:58 PM)

quote:

Those who are In hell,or end up In hell are still not separated from His love,just separated from God.
Just exactly how does God show His Love to an eternal resident of Hell, yustme?



yustme -> RE: Those who are separated from the love of God (8/26/2008 4:28:09 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: drmark

quote:

Those who are In hell,or end up In hell are still not separated from His love,just separated from God.
Just exactly how does God show His Love to an eternal resident of Hell, yustme?

Of course He won't "show"His love anymore,but He will never stop loving the eternally lost.It grieves Him when people choose the world over Him.But to stop loving us?Never my friend,never.



drmark -> RE: Those who are separated from the love of God (8/26/2008 4:34:31 PM)

Okay, since God is Love, I concede your semantic point. But, believe me yustme, everyone in Hell knows they are separated from His Love!



deliveredarling -> RE: Those who are separated from the love of God (8/26/2008 4:40:38 PM)

I'm not quite sure how to reconcile God loving unbeliever's with this verse:
Isa 59:2 But your iniquities have made a separation between you and your God, And your sins have hidden {His} face from you so that He does not hear.

God is just. He and sin, just don't mix.



yustme -> RE: Those who are separated from the love of God (8/27/2008 3:50:10 PM)

I'm the mother of three children.All grown and on their own.They don't always please me,and sometimes even won't talk to me.There was a whole year when one was ver estranged from me.It broke my heart,but I never stopped loving her.God's love is so much deeper than mine,and just because some choose hell,does not mean He stopped loving them,He just can't show His love to them anymore.But they don't know it,because they are separated from Him for ever.



steve7150 -> RE: Those who are separated from the love of God (8/27/2008 4:12:38 PM)

quote:

God's love is so much deeper than mine,and just because some choose hell,




It's true what you said about God's love yet you would probably always forgive your kids but everyone here thinks God sets a deadline for his children though most mom's would not.
Jesus on the cross said "Father forgive them for they know not what they do." And these were the folks directly involved with murdering Jesus yet he prayed for them to be forgiven. Are run of the mill sinners worse then these murderers? Do sinners "know not what they do" against God? Do they all hate God or perhaps they for the most part just don't know God?
Yes the wrath of God is against sinners but so it also was against Israel which caused the Babylonian captivity but that was'nt forever, was it?



Thessa -> RE: Those who are separated from the love of God (8/28/2008 2:42:49 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: drmark

quote:

Those who are In hell,or end up In hell are still not separated from His love,just separated from God.
Just exactly how does God show His Love to an eternal resident of Hell, yustme?



Are you trying to make a 'point' that Gods love isnt eternal? Well sorry but if so you are failing miserably.
Lemme show you what i mean.
Say you got up tomorrow and decided to reject the word of God, his love and everything to do with Him. That would be YOUR choice. Not His. YOURS. So he dosent seperate His love from anyone - its them that do. And they do it with their eyes wide open.



FurGodWurLivin -> RE: Those who are separated from the love of God (8/28/2008 4:48:40 AM)

quote:

Is there anywhere in the Bible that teaches that those who will spend an eternity in hell will be separated from the love of God?
No.

In case we all forgot, according to 1 John 4, God IS love. If that is the case, then it is impossible to be seperated from that Love. However, the Lake of Fire is not situated far off from God. There are several referrences in the Bible to the smoke of the Lake of Fire arising before God forver. If we truly believe that God is omnipresent, then it is theologically impossible to ever be seperated from Him.
quote:

They will be separated from God's love,But as we speak unbelievers are separated from his love as well..
If I had to guess, you are using a different definition of "seperated" than most of the rest of us in this thread. While that isn't necessarily wrong, it will prohibit a useful discussion. Unbelievers are not "outside" the love of God. John 3:16 would make a pretty convincing case for that. So would Jesus' parables of the lost sheep and the prodigal son. If what you mean is that unbelievers are incapable of loving God and completely unforgiven, then you are quite correct. If, however, you are attempting to suggest that the unebelievers are either outside of, or incapable of, being loved by God, then you are on theologically shaky ground indeed.

Adam



drmark -> RE: Those who are separated from the love of God (8/28/2008 8:32:10 AM)

quote:

In case we all forgot, according to 1 John 4, God IS love. If that is the case, then it is impossible to be seperated from that Love. However, the Lake of Fire is not situated far off from God. There are several referrences in the Bible to the smoke of the Lake of Fire arising before God forver. If we truly believe that God is omnipresent, then it is theologically impossible to ever be seperated from Him.
While this may be sound semantically and theologically, I ask one more time: "Just exactly how does God show His Love to an eternal resident of Hell?" If the eternally damned cannot recieve the Love of God, are they not separated from that Love?



yustme -> RE: Those who are separated from the love of God (8/28/2008 9:41:42 AM)

This has nothing to do with God "showing" His love.His love is for always and for ever.However,once a soul has made it's home in hell,they will no longer feel the presence of God,or feel His love,but He does still love them.



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