Marriage preparation through relationships

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joy2give2u -> Marriage preparation through relationships (8/21/2008 2:36:18 PM)
Last last night till early this morning I was talking to Kimber. She had gone to Chicago with a friend of her mothers and had asked me to call her when she got back since she knew the day would be highly charged emotionally. As we talked she shared a list she was compiling of things she was finding out or realizing about her mother. Things, which now that she is gone, stand out about their relationship. While in Chicago Kimber visited the stain glass museum. Not that she had any big desire to see the stain glass pieces nor that she was drawn to their beauty. No she wanted to visit because it was one of the place she and her mother had planned to visit when she next came home. While giving a few details about the exhibit Kimber said something which really struck me as profound..... She said, "As I looked around the different pieces I saw such beauty in them, not because I found them beautiful but because I knew my mother would have and somehow with her things which I did not find beautiful became beautiful to me as well." I thought.......what a beautiful picture of love. The more Kimber and I talked more I saw what a gift her relationship with her mother had been to her and how it has prepared her for marriage. In the relationship Kimber learned what many, married and single, never learn.........how to walk in oneness together. As I think back on my life I wondered who, in my life, has God used to prepare me for marriage? In which relationships have I grown in understanding of what it means to walk in such closeness? With whom have I been given a small glimpse of what marriage will be like? What did God teach me through the relationship that I will carry through in my marriage. Two relationship really stand out for me....... 1. My father. Before my father I would have said, and probably most people as well, that I was very giving to my family and spent a lot of time with them. For the most part this was true but as I reflect back on who I am today, who I was with my father, compared to who I was previously to moving in to take care of him I realize how very self absorbed I was in how I lived my life. I loved serving my father.........I loved cooking for him and reading the newspaper or knitting while he watched his TV shows............I loved the comfortable silence and how we would laugh at the same things even if no one else found it funny. I loved being his confidant and was honored that he valued our relationship enough to share his deepest hopes and dreams.......his worries and fears.........and his special golden nuggets from the Lord. I loved the knowing looks over everyone else head when we shared a secret..........and I loved that giving to him made me so much a better person. He would often get these ugly wounds on his arms and legs. Many times the doctors would want him in the wound care ward at the hospital to treat the wounds but my daddy refused (he hated the hospital) and though it was hard for him to ask me he would ask me to take care of his wounds, to clip his toe nails and other task. I hated all those things and still do except with him.......somehow I didn't see cleaning and bandaging his wounds as gross or disgusting..........no I saw it as beautiful because it gave me such joy to be able to express my love to him through caring for him...... I will stop here because I am sure you have the idea......and I could ramble on forever about my daddy....... In my relationship with him I learned, the more I died to me, the more our relationship lived and thrived. 2. the girls. I learned from them the greatest gift I can give is me.........I learned the greatest gift I could receive is them. I learned that seeing them enjoy life makes my life so much more enjoyable. I learned that love hurts and sometimes it doesn't feel like love. I learned I would rather spend time doing something I hate with them then something I love without them. I learned when I love abundantly God blesses me abundantly. I learned through my relationship with the girls giving your heart is a great investment.......the returns are more then you can imagine. As you reflect back on your relationships how would you answer the questions I posed to myself? Who has God used to prepare you for marriage? In which relationships have you grown in understanding of what it means to walk in such closeness? With whom have you been given a small glimpse of what marriage will be like? What did God teach you through the relationship which will be important in your marriage? My hope is this thread will encourage us to each take stock of our past relationships and seek God to show us how he used those relationships to prepare us for marriage. I realize some have been married in the past and have much to share from those relationships as to how God prepared them for their next marriage......and please do share.... as well as take the time to reflect on relationships other then the one with your spouse and share how God used those as well. thank you

John_O -> RE: Marriage preparation through relationships (8/21/2008 2:55:08 PM)
quote: Who has God used to prepare you for marriage? In which relationships have you grown in understanding of what it means to walk in such closeness? With whom have you been given a small glimpse of what marriage will be like? What did God teach you through the relationship which will be important in your marriage? I have an advantage over many here. I had a previous marriage where I made all the mistakes and learned all the right things (OR at least a large number of right things). So the answer to questions 1-3 are my first marriage. The answers to question 4 are too numerous to relate.

joy2give2u -> RE: Marriage preparation through relationships (8/21/2008 3:10:23 PM)
quote: The answers to question 4 are too numerous to relate. I have ample time to read...... quote: I have an advantage over many here How so? quote: So the answer to questions 1-3 are my first marriage. I would love to hear what you learned from other relationship as well....[:D]

John_O -> RE: Marriage preparation through relationships (8/21/2008 3:17:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: joy2give2u quote: The answers to question 4 are too numerous to relate. I have ample time to read...... I've not the time to write at the moment. May revisit it later quote: quote: I have an advantage over many here How so? 18 years prior experience quote: quote: So the answer to questions 1-3 are my first marriage. I would love to hear what you learned from other relationship as well....[:D] Almost nothing. I was lost during those relationships and my motivations were entirely different. I wasn't looking to be married at that point in my life. I was more focused on scoring than being a good husband. Two very different skill sets

joy2give2u -> RE: Marriage preparation through relationships (8/21/2008 3:24:10 PM)
quote: Almost nothing. I was lost during those relationships and my motivations were entirely different. I wasn't looking to be married at that point in my life. I was more focused on scoring than being a good husband. Two very different skill sets As seen by my post God can use many different types of relationships to prepare us for marriage.........Even my relationship with Kimber is teaching me how to walk in a marriage relationship..........I am learning how support someone through their pain instead of trying to take it away.........An important lesson to learn and apply in marriage don't you think?

ShallbeRebuilt -> RE: Marriage preparation through relationships (8/21/2008 4:26:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: John_O quote: Who has God used to prepare you for marriage? In which relationships have you grown in understanding of what it means to walk in such closeness? With whom have you been given a small glimpse of what marriage will be like? What did God teach you through the relationship which will be important in your marriage? I have an advantage over many here. I had a previous marriage where I made all the mistakes and learned all the right things (OR at least a large number of right things). So the answer to questions 1-3 are my first marriage. The answers to question 4 are too numerous to relate. John, this is me, too. Do you ever think "if God ever brings me another spouse I'll never (fill in the blank) like I did before"? I try not to, because I'm just human and such a doofus so I know that I will most likely... ...take him for granted ...forget what it's like to have to kill my own bugs ...correct him in public ...forget what it was like to listen to the silence in my bedroom instead of his snores ...impatiently fix his meal instead of thanking God I have someone to feed ...forget that I prayed to have to put the toilet lid down just one more time yadda, yadda. But maybe I really will learn from this time of emptiness and appreciate another spouse should God grant me one. shallbe

John_O -> RE: Marriage preparation through relationships (8/21/2008 4:49:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ShallbeRebuilt John, this is me, too. Do you ever think "if God ever brings me another spouse I'll never (fill in the blank) like I did before"? Yep! I remember the mistakes I made and won't be making those again. I also remember the good things I did and will be workingon doing more of them.

AlwaysR8chel -> RE: Marriage preparation through relationships (8/21/2008 5:10:52 PM)
. . . . ... it is my understanding (as I read through Joy's post) that she is asking what relationships outside of a marital relationship has helped us to prepare for marriage. Is this right, Joy? ... and if so.... in essence... the previous posters have responded to your questions without understanding correctly what you are getting at... hence, not really answering your questions. _____ I love what you wrote about Kimber and her relationship with her mother... I, too, agree that Kimber's choice is profound.... the way she expressed it was wonderfully captured by her words... _____ For those of us who have had previous marriages... we must think back further... harder. I would say that my mother helped me to prepare for marriage... she taught me how to stick it out during the hard times and how to make something out of nothing when there are no fit groceries in the cupboard... A roommate when I was 18 taught me how to show affection... how to reach out... and started me on the path to learn how to love. My aunt taught me how important it is to spend time with the ones you love... and how to pull together resources to make opportunities happen in life. My father... taught me patience and grace. ... and a few close girlfriends taught me how to not feel guilty about spending time and maybe a little $$ on myself in order to keep my mind healthy so that I can be a good mother/wife/sister/friend to others. [;)] I'm glad you posted this thread, Joy.... I really enjoyed the opportunity to think back to how God showed his grace in my life... even before I made poor choices in marriage.... All these people have contributed to who I am today... I am so very blessed. <3

humbleinspirit -> RE: Marriage preparation through relationships (8/21/2008 8:16:45 PM)
I'd say that all of my online friendships have helped me prepare for marriage, that is if I ever get married at all. I do have one good friend on here who has helped me feel much more comfortable with myself and thus make me feel more comfortable around women in general.

LabGuy -> RE: Marriage preparation through relationships (8/22/2008 1:00:56 AM)
I'm friends with some older, married women. They're very good at relating what not to do as a husband. I take notes. [sm=biggrin.gif] -Robb

WaitingforBoaz -> RE: Marriage preparation through relationships (8/22/2008 2:20:28 AM)
quote: I realize some have been married in the past and have much to share from those relationships as to how God prepared them for their next marriage......and please do share.... as well as take the time to reflect on relationships other then the one with your spouse and share how God used those as well. thank you I think I am reading that she wants to hear from those of us who have previously been married.........I'll have to come back though. I'm a bit too tired to respond to this right now. quote: I try not to, because I'm just human and such a doofus so I know that I will most likely... ...take him for granted ...forget what it's like to have to kill my own bugs ...correct him in public ...forget what it was like to listen to the silence in my bedroom instead of his snores ...impatiently fix his meal instead of thanking God I have someone to feed ...forget that I prayed to have to put the toilet lid down just one more time Esther I have thought about this too, and I just know I will do many of the same things.[&:] But I hope that they will be few and far between.[;)] I'll be back to finish this later.[:D]

joy2give2u -> RE: Marriage preparation through relationships (8/22/2008 2:30:21 PM)
quote: it is my understanding (as I read through Joy's post) that she is asking what relationships outside of a marital relationship has helped us to prepare for marriage. Is this right, Joy? quote: I think I am reading that she wants to hear from those of us who have previously been married.........I'll have to come back though. I'm a bit too tired to respond to this right now. Actually you are both correct. Rach I am asking people to share, outside of the marriage relationship, examples of how God has used a relationship to prepare them for marriage. Nadine I would love to hear examples, from marriage ( especially healthy, happy marriages) how God used those marriages to prepare for the next marriage. The key word is how........How did God used the relationship, who it was with and what did God teach through it. quote: I have an advantage over many here. I had a previous marriage where I made all the mistakes and learned all the right things (OR at least a large number of right things). So the answer to questions 1-3 are my first marriage. The answers to question 4 are too numerous to relate. Not to pick on John_O ( Ok maybe it is to pick on him but can you blame me since he is so easy to pick on and his point is a perfect example to use) What I am not really looking for is a statement such as the one quoted. Though I am glad you posted, since I respect your wisdom and experience in marriage, plus you tend to draw readers more so then I do, I admit I am a little confused for what purpose you posted. Your words, I have an advantage over many here, seems to me to discount others, who have not been married, experiences and seems to apply that you have a better grasp of intimate relationships then the rest of us since you were married. I am not making light of the marriage relationship and admit I do not know the depth of loving a spouse since I have never been married BUT unless a person has experienced the depth of bonding and partnership, similar to marriage , with someone you were not married as well it is impossible to know if there is an advantage one over another. I know many married couples, together long and short, who do not have the type of intimacy or oneness that Kimber had with her mother. I know many who though having said I do and having a marriage certificate never walked as one. The thing which gives the advantage is not being married but the actual relationship built, the intimacy achieved, the bonding as one and two becoming one in partnership........these things ,though God's desire for marriage, are also His desire for our relationship with Him.....and a non marriage relationship, such as with my father, can reflect God's intent for relationships. Those ingredient, when mixed together, are what makes a relationship not saying "I do" and I believe I learned more about being married, what it means to love in a way a wife was designed to love,in a relationship outside of marriage then many people I know have learned in marriage. My hope is just as we, non married, will read and hopefully grow through reading what God has taught others through marriage those who have been married will listen to us, who have never been married, with the same understanding that it is possible to have as deep a relationship, partnership and bonding with another who is not your spouse. The second thing I want to comment on.......sorry John_O Why post if only to acknowledge that you have learned much? I have no doubt you are well prepared for marriage and am sure you will make a wonderful husband to your new wife but how does stating so add to the thread? I, for one, would love to read more examples of what God taught you. Please share.........[:D][:D]

John_O -> RE: Marriage preparation through relationships (8/22/2008 2:56:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: joy2give2u quote: I have an advantage over many here. I had a previous marriage where I made all the mistakes and learned all the right things (OR at least a large number of right things). So the answer to questions 1-3 are my first marriage. The answers to question 4 are too numerous to relate. Not to pick on John_O ( Ok maybe it is to pick on him but can you blame me since he is so easy to pick on and his point is a perfect example to use) What I am not really looking for is a statement such as the one quoted. Though I am glad you posted, since I respect your wisdom and experience in marriage, plus you tend to draw readers more so then I do, I admit I am a little confused for what purpose you posted. Your words, I have an advantage over many here, seems to me to discount others, who have not been married, experiences and seems to apply that you have a better grasp of intimate relationships then the rest of us since you were married. Not intimate relationships. A marriage relationship. quote: I am not making light of the marriage relationship and admit I do not know the depth of loving a spouse since I have never been married BUT unless a person has experienced the depth of bonding and partnership, similar to marriage , with someone you were not married as well it is impossible to know if there is an advantage one over another. In this section you bring up a very good point. It is not just marriage which I was talking about, but a good marriage. If both partners are working to make it a good marriage there is no other relationship on earth that approximates it. That is why God uses marriage to describe our relationship to Him in Heaven. (Marriage of the Lamb). I know lots of married people who are not living up to what their marriages could be. In a good marriage you can attain a level of intimacy in every facet of your being. Only in marriage can two become one. quote: My hope is just as we, non married, will read and hopefully grow through reading what God has taught others through marriage those who have been married will listen to us, who have never been married, with the same understanding that it is possible to have as deep a relationship, partnership and bonding with another who is not your spouse. You can have a great relationship with someone you are not married to, but it won't be as deep as a good marriage would be. God designed us that way. quote: The second thing I want to comment on.......sorry John_O MOM!! She's picking on me again! quote: Why post if only to acknowledge that you have learned much? That's all you asked for in questions 1-3. In 4, where to start? 1. I am not always right. OK I know it's hard to believe but sometimes I am wrong. This was a very hard lesson for me as I am used to being smarter and faster on my feet than almost everyone I ever hung around with. (Ouch! Hey it's not my fault! Ow! But it's true. Ouch) I need to point out that inmy younger days I intentionally hung around with people who barely had the intelligence of a turnip. That way my broccoli level intelligence would look good. 2. (Ties closely to 1) When you're married you cannot escape a conversation or an argument. It will always continue until it is settled. Maybe not today, but then tomorrow or the next day etc. The bible says to not let the sun set on our anger. Which brings us to point 3 3. It is far easier to fix something immediately than to let it fester for a while. When you are wrong, admit it quickly, else you have to dig back through all the excuses, pride etc that piles up on things in order to fix it. And eventually you will have to fix it so do it now. 4. Both of you can be right. And equally important, both of you can be wrong. It's important to recognize that even if you prove them to be wrong, you still could be wrong too. 5. If you both put the lid down everytime you use the stool then no one has a chance to complain (or fall in) 6. Your spouse will have habits that drive you berzerk. Some are worth dealing with, others are just things to thank God for. (Thank God you have a spouse who can have habits. They could be catatonic or you could be alone) 7. Take your time with each other. In the bedroom and everywhere else. Indulge yourself in your spouse in every circumstance. Appreciate how wonderful they are, even if you're just watching them drive the boat or something. Life is too short to miss opportunities to spend quality time with each other 8. Prefer your spouse to yourself. Sacrifice is the middle name of marriage. And in a good marriage, when both are sacrificing for each other, the results are amazing. 9 Husbands, clean the house. Nothing is sexier to most wives than a man pushing a vacuum. (I'll admit that I stole this one but I've also found it to be true in my life) 10 A woman can be incredibly strong. She can also be incredibly fragile. Unfortunately she can switch from one to the other at a moments notice or even be both concurrently. Pay close attention to her and you'll be able to see what she needs/wants from you. 11. Make the study of your spouse part of your life's work. When you can answer her needs before she speaks them, and she does the same to you, life is amazing. 12. Listen with more than just your ears. (I don't know how to really explain this. I could "feel" when M needed me or needed to talk or even when she needed me to be out of her face for a while.) (edited to fix many typos. I'm a horrible typist. (Hey OH, does that earn me humble points? Ouch!! I guess not))

joy2give2u -> RE: Marriage preparation through relationships (8/22/2008 3:29:45 PM)
quote: You can have a great relationship with someone you are not married to, but it won't be as deep as a good marriage would be. God designed us that way. How do you know? I am not trying to be smart I am really wondering. Unless another has experienced a relationship as deep as I had with my father, or kimber had with her mother how can they know their relationship is ot as deep? I agree it is different but I am not sure it is not as deep. God designed us to desire and need deep intimate relationships.........he designed us to be in such a relationship with him.......he used the marriage relationship as an example of what our relationship with Him should look like but does that mean that same relationship can't be experienced outside of marriage? Is the marriage showing us how our relationship with God should look or is our relationship with God showing us how the marriage should look? If it is the relationship which is showing us what a marriage should look like isn't it possible that the relationship shown could exist outside of marriage? Someday I will marry and when I do I will give myself completely to my husband......I will love him more then I love myself, his heart will be my most precious treasure and I will be a better wife because I know what a intimate relationship should and does look like with one you love. Last night I was talking to a friend. She is in a relationship and they are planning to marry......... Yet since the relationship is so different then what she has experienced in the past there are many actions, experiences and words which don't seem to reflect the relationships she has had in the past. Why? Because she has never had a healthy relationship. Though men have said the right words and she has felt loved she is unable to recognize the little things which speak such love......... As we talked she shared examples and through my experience with my father I was able to shine a different perspective on the action and I hope helped her see that those little things speak louder then all the big words spoken in the past. For example.......She has her horse at her boyfriends house so often takes a shower there after working in the barn........if he takes a shower before her and he noticed only two clean towels on the rack.......one being a hand towel and the other a body towel......he will take the small towel, though he has the bigger body, so that she can have the bigger one. I know that speaks of love.....it shows he is thinking more of her........that she is on his mind........and that her needs are more important then his.........how do I know because I learned, through my relationship with my father, how much doing such a small thing spoke to the love I had for him. I have never been married but I recognize, because of relationship with my father, the importance of such a small action. By loving him I learned to think of someone else's comfort over mine........thus I am better prepared for marriage then before taking care of my father. Even the list you made John_O (thank you by the way) by changing a few words obviously I could post it as my own of the things I learned in my relationship with my father and I know kimber could say, even more so then I, those exact lessons were learned through the relationship her mother and her built the last five years.

John_O -> RE: Marriage preparation through relationships (8/22/2008 3:53:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: joy2give2u quote: You can have a great relationship with someone you are not married to, but it won't be as deep as a good marriage would be. God designed us that way. How do you know? I am not trying to be smart I am really wondering. Unless another has experienced a relationship as deep as I had with my father, or kimber had with her mother how can they know their relationship is ot as deep? The relationship with your father, or Kimber's with her mother lacked the physical component. You could not be one. Likewise a "shacking up" arrangement may have the physical but not the spiritual (or emotional since there is no commitment). From what I've read, and what I know of myself, men are at their most open after making love with their wives. Sex with someone who is not their wife does not produce the same openess (It's not as safe). Only a husband and wife can be one flesh. quote: I agree it is different but I am not sure it is not as deep. It might be as deep in one way or another, but not in all ways. quote: Is the marriage showing us how our relationship with God should look or is our relationship with God showing us how the marriage should look? Both. quote: If it is the relationship which is showing us what a marriage should look like isn't it possible that the relationship shown could exist outside of marriage? No because that level of intimacy is impossible outside of marriage. You always hold something back.

Mrs.Dawgfan -> RE: Marriage preparation through relationships (8/22/2008 4:07:04 PM)
Yes. Physical intimacy is that added component that no other relationship brings. And that side of it just meshes with all other sides. I can think of a few relationships in my life which has prepared me for marriage (but to a certain extent). Unfortunately I don't have time right now and will come back later. lol.

joy2give2u -> RE: Marriage preparation through relationships (8/22/2008 4:08:12 PM)
quote: The relationship with your father, or Kimber's with her mother lacked the physical component. You could not be one. So someone who can not physically have sex can never be one with their wife/husband? We can not be one in the flesh with the Lord yet Jesus prayed that we would be one with the father as he was one with him...........hmmmmm interesting thoughts.......... quote: It might be as deep in one way or another, but not in all ways. May I ask what are the ways you believe two can be one with the exception of the obvious which is physically? quote: No because that level of intimacy is impossible outside of marriage. You always hold something back. Again I know many married couples who hold something back, some based on hurts and pains from the past, some from still learning what it means to give someone your entire heart, and some because they have never learned to love another more them themselves.......... I am trying to think of anything I held back from my father......and I can't think of a single thing. In my relationship with my father was a safe place to experience what it meant to not hold back.......... I have been in relationship with men before and I agree I held back, often quite a bit, because I did not feel safe giving myself completely. If I had married before I would have held back some from my husband as well. In my relations with my father I learned how to give and receive love freely and also in my relationship with the girls........... I learned giving your whole heart, though it brings sorrow, also brings the greatest reward possible. Again I am not trying to be agrumentive or stuborn.......I just really find it hard to believe it is possible to love any deeper or freer with my heart then that which I have learned with non marriage relationships.......and I am glad God used those relationship to teach me how to give my heart ........I am sure my husband will be glad as well........[:D][:D]

joy2give2u -> RE: Marriage preparation through relationships (8/22/2008 4:10:03 PM)
quote: Yes. Physical intimacy is that added component that no other relationship brings. And that side of it just meshes with all other sides. I can think of a few relationships in my life which has prepared me for marriage. Unfortunately I don't have time right now and will come back later. lol. Above_all so do you believe a married couple, who due to physical limitations, can not have the physical intimacy of making love, can not be as intimate or one as a couple who can? I look forward to reading what you write..........

John_O -> RE: Marriage preparation through relationships (8/22/2008 4:16:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: joy2give2u quote: The relationship with your father, or Kimber's with her mother lacked the physical component. You could not be one. So someone who can not physically have sex can never be one with their wife/husband? We can not be one in the flesh with the Lord yet Jesus prayed that we would be one with the father as he was one with him...........hmmmmm interesting thoughts.......... We will be. In heaven. Until then we don't have the capacity to really be one with God. We can't even see His face. Our flesh just isn't strong enough to survive that. quote: It might be as deep in one way or another, but not in all ways. May I ask what are the ways you believe two can be one with the exception of the obvious which is physically? Let me rephrase my repsonse. It may be as deep spiritually, or maybe intellectually, but it cannot be as deep physically, or I'd guess emotionally. quote: No because that level of intimacy is impossible outside of marriage. You always hold something back. Again I know many married couples who hold something back, some based on hurts and pains from the past, some from still learning what it means to give someone your entire heart, and some because they have never learned to love another more them themselves.......... I am trying to think of anything I held back from my father......and I can't think of a single thing. If you have a sexual history did your dad know every last little detail? Would you have told him if he asked about it? I'd guess probably not. Yet those little details are part of who you've come to be. It's extrememly hard to even know your spouse totally. Knowing someone else is even harder than that. quote: Again I am not trying to be agrumentive or stuborn.......I just really find it hard to believe it is possible to love any deeper or freer with my heart then that which I have learned with non marriage relationships.......and I am glad God used those relationship to teach me how to give my heart ........I am sure my husband will be glad as well........[:D][:D] And when you get there you will understand better. I'm not quite sure I can explain any better than I have tried to. In the mean time, use what you have learned, serve you it will.

WaitingforBoaz -> RE: Marriage preparation through relationships (8/22/2008 4:52:14 PM)
All of my relationships have contributed to my marriage, the good relationships and the bad. The biggest thing I have learned from other relationships, is to communicate effectively. I know you want details about how other intimate relationships have affected my marriage, but actually the only person I had an intimate relationship with (other than in dating)was my grandmother, and in a lot of ways I was very much like her when I was married. I have her beliefs and ideals. I know that you really did not want the thread to go his way so I kind of hesitate to say this Joy, but I agree with John. There is no other relationship where you become one. Even my twins will someday say ( I hope) that they are way more intimate with their spouses than they ever were with each other. I have to say that I am jealous of the relationship you have with your father. I have always wanted that. You sound very close and I am sure that that will help you to be better prepared to be a wife because of it, but it is just different. Here are some things that I learned in my marriage that will help me in my next marriage: 1. Everything John put on his list. (Thanks John you saved me a bit of time.[:D]) 2. When men have a need they many times will not ask for what they need, but they will show you in many ways. I learned to look for certain behaviors and clues so I would be able to meet his needs better. 3. The original topic of an argument is rarely what the real problem is. You have to look deeper. I mean is he really that upset about the lid of the toothpaste? 4. There a few things that you can do that make your man feel like he is King. They will be different for every man so you have to learn what they are and proceed accordingly. 5. No man can fulfill all of your needs. 6. If you neglect your spiritual life, it will seriously hurt your marriage. Make a way to spend time with the Lord, even when your twins keep you up all night.[:(] 7. Do not forsake time together even for a season, because of work or children or whatever thinking that you will catch up later, you can�t. 8. It really does not matter if he puts the lid down or not. ( I would love to do this just one more time.) 9. God is not finished with him yet. He is a work in progress. Extend a little grace. I am sure that there is so much more but this is all I have time for right now. Blessings!

Mrs.Dawgfan -> RE: Marriage preparation through relationships (8/22/2008 4:53:45 PM)
Ok so I now have a few minutes before I have to leave. Ha. To answer the original OP... I think in general, our past relationships can teach us much about ourselves and how to relate with others...including our love relationships. While I think we can learn much from them, it won't mirror the kind of relationship we would have with our future spouse. Each relationship we have with people are unique in their own way. Some are closer than others. Some are not. There are many factors that dictate this. But nothing is more unique than our marriage relationship. It was the very first human relationship created. We can have good relationships with others but having a good relationship with our spouse is custom designed by G-d Himself. For me, there are two relationships I can think about off hand that has helped prepare me for marriage. My mom and a former friend of mine. I am not the closest to my mom and I no longer have a friendship with this person. But interestingly enough I have learned much from them on both what to do and what NOT to do. And no matter what kind of relationship I have with them, my relationship with FH is completely different. To answer the more specific question... I think people who are physically unable to be intimate have a very special kind of situation. For the most part, people are able to be physically intimate. There are times when we are able to but are not because of our own personal issues. People who are physically challenged have a special relationship with their spouses. It's like the blind man. His sense of hearing is much acute than the average person. The same goes for physical relationships. In fact, I read an article on the marriage bed website that talked briefly about this. It encouraged the more physically-abled spouse to please the other to the best of their ability. Even if neither are able to, that kind of relationship has something very special to it. When we get married, the father of the bride gives the bride away and the husband receives his bride. What close relationship you had with your father will change. You will always be close and love each other but now you belong to your husband. And even with this shift, our relationships with our husbands will be very different. It's hard to explain unless you have been through it yourself. Really. This in not to say that our past relationships or other relationships will not affect our marriage relationships. It can. If we can feel our mother's beauty we will have the ability to feel our spouses' "beauty". If we have been hurt, something our spouses say sometime can trigger a not so pleasant memory. We do adopt aspects from our other relationships. But ultimately the closeness we strive for with our spouses are unique and brand new. Hope all of this makes sense Joy. [:)]

joy2give2u -> RE: Marriage preparation through relationships (8/22/2008 4:57:25 PM)
quote: We will be. In heaven. Until then we don't have the capacity to really be one with God. We can't even see His face. Our flesh just isn't strong enough to survive that. hmmmmm I will have to think on this one.........I do not believe dwell in oneness with the Lord, not as we should, yet I also believe and have experienced moments of oneness with him.......I believe we can see His face and feel his physical touch..........Adam and Even were on earth and saw God..........yes the curse removed them from the kingdom of heaven on earth but didn't Jesus come to bring it back? I need to think a little further on this.....but thank you John........though it seems I am picking on you, mostly because no one else is posting, I am receiving lots of food for thought.........I love thinking about things I have never really thought about before.........[:D][:D] quote: Let me rephrase my repsonse. It may be as deep spiritually, or maybe intellectually, but it cannot be as deep physically, or I'd guess emotionally. physically as far as sexually I will grant you but trust me cleaing and bandaging wounds is very physical..so is giving shots. Now granted it does not have to be intimate or about love, since nurses doing it daily, but when done with love it can be a very physically bonding experience. As for emotionally........I would disagree with this ........as I said unless you have had the type of relationship I am talking about outside of marriage you can not really understand the emotional connection. For anyone else reading please understand I am not talking about my relationship with my father as in a normal daughter/father relationship..........if I had not moved in with him, as an adult, and partnered with him to walk life through his illness I would not have had as deep a bond as I had with him. I would also like to clarify that my mind, at the moment, is filled with thoughts of kimber and her mom..........how deep and intimate their relationship was and how the love they showed and experienced with each others reflects more the relationship I crave to have with a husband more so then most the marriages I know.......... When she talks about her mother I physically ache to be known by another in the way her and her mother knew each other..........as close as my father and I were our relationship was not near what she had with her mother...........plus since he is gone I don't even have the closeness I had with him. I love talking to people about their marriages and seek out marriages where I can see glimpes of what marriage will be like when I get married and to be perfectly honest I have never met a couple close to the oneness kimber and her mother walked in......... I guess this whole thread and my train of thoughts lately have been why? If intimacy/oneness is only available in marriage why is it that I see it more in a non marriage relationship in the many marriages I have observed? quote: If you have a sexual history did your dad know every last little detail? This comment is making me smile so much............It brings back a wonderfully funny memory. There are seven girls in my family (I know poor daddy) and all of us are very close to our father.........once five of us were in his suv........now typical of us girls we tend to talk, while my dad silently listens, without really considering he is listening as well. The conversation turned to experiences of the sexual nature..........at one point, when something was said my dad did not know, he made a groaning sound, sat his pipe down and put both fingers in his ears.........proclaiming in a loud voice.........I don't want to hear this......thing singing lalallalalalalal to keep out our voices ....LOL All five of us busted out laughing.........I was driving and was laughing so hard I had to pull over to the side of the road to keep from running off the road..........it was so funny...... My poor dad LOL But to answer your question.......I have told good friends about my past sexual history......I have even told a gentlemen friend who I was getting to know and trusted.......why would I not tell my father? I am not ashamed or embarrased about my past mistakes.........how could I be......the things God showed and taught me through my disobedience is worth sharing.......... quote: Would you have told him if he asked about it? I'd guess probably not. Yet those little details are part of who you've come to be. It's extrememly hard to even know your spouse totally. Why would I be more hesitant to tell my father, who has seen me good, bad, and ugly those things.......he is the one person I know without a doubt would never judge or love me less because of the choices I made........my father's love was always unconditional............now my mother I would not tell her but I would also not use the relationship she and I have as an example of oneness or God using it to show me how a marriage relationship should look.......my relationship with my mother though good is very much mother and daughter.....lacking any of the depth of knowing I had with my father. Have you considered John_o that maybe the reason it is "extremely hard to even know your spouse totally" might be because relationships which reflected and taught what a marriage relationship should look like were absent from those people's lives prior to marriage? quote: I'm not quite sure I can explain any better than I have tried to. In the mean time, use what you have learned, serve you it will. I am not sure you can explain it any better and I am sure you are getting a little tired of all my questions........but I do think you......though probably tiresome for you I have very much enjoyed conversing with you on this topic and look forward to discussing it further with others either here or offline......... As I said I love questions because answers always make me think of more questions as I walk towards greater understanding of what I think and believe............[:D][:D] thank you John_O for abliging me today in all my questions...........I had fun...........[:D][:D]

joy2give2u -> RE: Marriage preparation through relationships (8/22/2008 6:13:16 PM)
Ester thank you so much for posting...........It is so nice to have someone else to talk to instead of continuing to bug John-O LOL I am probably going to highlight things you say, not to cut your thread apart, but because reading your post many of the things you wrote made me think of another question I have......... I really do appreciate you taking the time to post and allow me to ask questions........... I realize I am working through thoughts and God is showing me something I am just not sure what all I am learning yet.....make sense? quote: There is no other relationship where you become one The thing which confuses me with this statement, at least with John_O, is that the thing implied missing to make the oneness is the physical oneness.........yet there are couples, who I would say have a oneness, yet due to physical limitations can not have the physical oneness........do you believe they, in their marriage, can never be as one as a couple who can have the physical part? quote: Even my twins will someday say ( I hope) that they are way more intimate with their spouses than they ever were with each other. Interesting......I would have thought that they would say that the intimacy is different.......the closeness different yet in many ways the same........very interesting......I wonder if I knew any twins who are married I can ask.........I think I will call my pastor and ask if their are any married twins at church. quote: I have to say that I am jealous of the relationship you have with your father. I have always wanted that. You sound very close and I am sure that that will help you to be better prepared to be a wife because of it, but it is just different. Had..... relationship I had with my father......he passed away a little over a year ago.......before he died I never understood how painful, physically, grief can and is when you lose someone you love........Most the post I have made in the past year have been my way of healing........sharing my heart for my father has been very beneficial for me (though I suspect others here would not agree it has been beneficial to them LOL).......... My friend kimber just lost her mother, who as you can tell by this thread, was just as close........we were talking the other night about how it literally feels as so a part of you is ripped out and the emptiness can be overwhelming..........I felt so lost without my father, not because he was my father, but because in taking care of his for some many years we lived as adult partners..........if that makes sense..........our lives were so interwined........ I have a amazing friend, who lost her husband two years ago, and often we have discussed the pain of losing that part of us........the emotions.....the physical reaction I went through mirrored her grief and sorrow........as kimbers is mine now...........I know it is hard to understand unless you have experienced a non spousal relationship as I am describing but so many of the things you list as well as john_O's list are the same things I learned and walked through with my father.......... Speaking of the list you made........thank you........I laughed at some really funny memories, well they were not funny at the time, where I needed to learn some of the things you listed.........walking in partnership with any man, even your father, sure takes some growing up on both of your parts........LOL quote: it is just different. I agree it is different......but I am not sure it is any less as I feel was implied..........and I still wonder, if marriage is the key to having more then what I had with my father, why do I see more oneness in Kimber and her mothers relationship then I do in other friends with their husbands??? It makes no sense to me......... quote: I am sure that there is so much more but this is all I have time for right now. I hope you do post more........I am really enjoying reading them and feel God is showing me something, what I don't know, through them......... Hey Above_all thank you for posting and yes it made sense.........I have a sneaky suspicion if I reread this thread after being married for a while I will probably disagree with myself LOL But for now I am very curious......my thoughts are currently........people do not grasp the intimacy I am talking about, which kimber and I had with our parent therefore they can not understand the depth and strength of the love bond........as I said kimber and her mother were more one with each other then in most marriage I have observed.... quote: I think people who are physically unable to be intimate have a very special kind of situation. For the most part, people are able to be physically intimate. There are times when we are able to but are not because of our own personal issues. People who are physically challenged have a special relationship with their spouses. It's like the blind man. His sense of hearing is much acute than the average person. The same goes for physical relationships .I can't help but wonder if people who are not married yet living in such closeness as kimber and her mother have a very special kind of situation as well..........and as you stated God created woman so that she and man could be one and have a very special bond different then their relationship with their children........yet I can't help wondering if their relationship, which reflected the relationship God intended for us with him, can exist outside of marriage.........with someone other then your spouse.......... Hmmmmmmmmmm what a thought provoking day.........good thing it is friday........by the time monday rolls around I am sure my mind will be off in a different direction........ Thank you again for those of you who posted.....each of you gave me so much to think about and I can't express how much I appriciate the time you spent posting.......and reading my long post LOL Have a great weekend everyone.........

Mrs.Dawgfan -> RE: Marriage preparation through relationships (8/22/2008 8:26:59 PM)
This needs to continue Joy. [:D] I understand what you are saying about everything. I think the oneness you speak of and the oneness between spouses are two different things. I would be worried honestly if a person had a oneness with someone other than their spouse and in the same way. True, those who haven't experienced a deeper relationship with their parents have a harder time relating and understanding that kind of relationship. I have never had that kind of relationship with my parents on that level. But honestly, even though I did, I would still establish adult boundaries. I would still guard my heart to a certain extent so to speak. Don't be perplexed by this before I continue to explain. Ha. I personally wouldn't want that close a relationship with anyone else other than my future spouse. Why? It's mainly because I don't ever want to place myself in an emotional situation of comparing them to my spouse. It is EASY to compare people and relationships with others. Much easier than you think. Even if it's something as small as food. If my John didn't see my cooking as special and unique, he may easily compare it to his mother's cooking. Sounds weird but if he ever did, I would feel uncomfortable and not want to cook for him for fear that my dishes wouldn't be as good as hers. I could say, "Too bad. Eat it.", but really I would not feel comfortable. There are other examples that are much more emotional than that but basically, I am saving the best relationship I can ever have with my FH. It is easy to find faults in your spouse if you are comparing them to other people and other relationships. Is it worth setting these boundaries on other people? To me, yes. It's very worth it. Now let me describe just a glimpse of the kind of relationship I have with my John. It may sound pretty private but not so much that I can't share. Maybe it will give you a new perspective... It's easy to feel hurt when your mate is hurting and easy to feel joyful when your mate is joyful. You know that he or she is going to be tired at the end of the day and take the appropriate steps to make sure he/she is relaxed. On most days, you can't wait to just cuddle in bed with each other and you find joy that you would be able to touch each other in ways that no one else can't. You look into their eyes and say to yourself, "I wonder what our kids would look like?" The very thought of teaming up and talking about ways of teaching them about Jesus...or ways we can discipline them when needed makes you smile.

joy2give2u -> RE: Marriage preparation through relationships (8/25/2008 3:42:54 PM)
quote: This needs to continue Joy. LOL I don't know if I agree with this statement............Why do you feel it needs to continue? quote: I think the oneness you speak of and the oneness between spouses are two different things I agree it is different but I disagree that it is deeper or more a reflection of the type of relationships God created and designed us to be a part. quote: I would be worried honestly if a person had a oneness with someone other than their spouse and in the same way. Why? I mean obviously there are part of the relationship which would look different but why would it worry you if someone had such oneness with their mother or father? quote: But honestly, even though I did, I would still establish adult boundaries. I would still guard my heart to a certain extent so to speak. Again I have to ask why? Why would you have to guard your heart? I am curious about this statement because I believe it is God's heart for all of our relationships to be ones where we do not need to guard our heart. A child does not guard their heart from a parent until life's circumstances and living in a fallen world teaches them a need to guard their heart.........we are not born with guarded hearts and when we learn to guard our hearts we also learn to guard it from the Lord..............in my opinion if more people would learn to let down their walls and let people into their hearts, those who they trust and love, we would reflect more what God intended a relationship to look like and would be better prepared to walk in marriage. quote: I personally wouldn't want that close a relationship with anyone else other than my future spouse. Why? It's mainly because I don't ever want to place myself in an emotional situation of comparing them to my spouse Why would you place yourself in that position? When you have children you will not compare each to the other nor will you hold back a closeness with one so that you can experience a greater closeness with another...........Relationships are not things to be compared one to another.....each should stand on it's own. I am wondering also how this would apply to widows. You would not want such a closeness with anyone other then your future spouse because such a relationship would take something away for all the future marriage could be? Do you then believe marrying someone who was previously married and widowed would make it impossible for him/her to love their second wife/husband with the same intimacy and depth that they did the first spouse? Do you believe it would be harder for the second spouse to be open completely because they would always be compared to the first spouse? I may be naive but I don't believe that.......I believe we have great ca pity to love and give of ourselves. I believe each relationship can and will be different but the unguarded heart, the intimacy in thought, emotions, and oneness of souls can be as deep, as powerful, as complete with more then one person. quote: It is easy to find faults in your spouse if you are comparing them to other people and other relationships. Is it worth setting these boundaries on other people? To me, yes. It's very worth it. I am not directing this statement at you personally but at the comment............I agree it is easy to find faults in your spouse if you are comparing them to anotehr relationship but I don't think the answer is to set boundaries, guarding against loving so deeply, as to keep you from doing so.......I think we are to be intentional about not comparing because that is the example Jesus has set before it........He did not guard against loving one more then another so that he would not compare..........he saw each relationship independent and separate from another.... I have always wondered why it is often thought we are limited in how much of our heart we can give as though if we give one person too much we will not have enough to give another..........why don't we realize one of the most amazing things about the heart.......we don't give it away when we give a person a piece of our heart...........no we give them a place upon which to plant a seed from their heart. We don't give away pieces, we give fertile soil for the heart seed of another to be planted....and by building a relationship we water and feed the seed as it grows in abundance........ When we guard our hearts and don't allow heart seeds to grow we often find, when there is a seed we really want to grow, it struggles because the land is not well tended and we never learned to farm. quote: It's easy to feel hurt when your mate is hurting and easy to feel joyful when your mate is joyful. Any relationship where you care more about the other person then yourself this is true........I could feel my father's pain, I knew his deep sadness and I felt his joy as my spirit rejoiced with him. quote: You know that he or she is going to be tired at the end of the day and take the appropriate steps to make sure he/she is relaxed Again how is this different then any relationship when you care more about the others welfare then your own? Even with my sisters, whom I am very close, I know certain days when things are going to hard and because I know them so well I know how they feel I can take actions to help them.......not out of duty or because it is the right thing but because seeing them tired or worn out break my heart.......... quote: On most days, you can't wait to just cuddle in bed with each other and you find joy that you would be able to touch each other in ways that no one else can't. You look into their eyes and say to yourself, "I wonder what our kids would look like?" The very thought of teaming up and talking about ways of teaching them about Jesus...or ways we can discipline them when needed makes you smile. Granted I did not experience this with my father but as I have stated before just because a relationship is different doesn't mean it is not as deep. BUT I did look into my father eyes and read his emotions, I knew what to say or do on days he was discouraged.......I felt his worries and his excitement.......we talked about grand kids growing up.......if they would play this sport or that.........what their grades would be like.........if they would enjoy this or that.......... We teamed up and taught them about family, about Jesus and about love.......... This thread started out, me voicing thoughts racing through my mind, based on conversations with two friends. One though in a committed loving relationship with a gentleman, struggles because the relationship is so different, in oneness, intimacy(not sexual) and action then anay relationship she has experienced before.......... I will never forget the intensity of her look and voice when she commented that she would never be unfaithful to him.....her surprise that she doesn't even notice other men anymore..........and how hurting him would hurt her too much for her to ever be tempted............for my friend this is a huge confirmation she is in love.......... She has never expeirenced a relationship where she gave so much of her hearts and loved so deeply that hurting him would hurt her........... My other friend, though never married, had such a relationship with her mother that she could see something as beautiful, not because it was beautiful to her, but because her mother would have found it beautiful........though never married she already knows what loving in such a way that you feel what the other person feels looks like.........when she is married she will recongize those things in her relationship.........a healthy relationship will be familialr to her...........it won't seem strange or different to her. I believe this is true with me as well. I believe that, due to what God has taught me through my relationship with my father, I am better prepared to be a wife. I believe opening our hearts, building deep, intimate relationships with those we love better prepares us for marriage then setting boundries and keep people a short distance so as to guard against comparing one to another.

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