A question about Proverbs 19:7

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Knolt -> A question about Proverbs 19:7 (8/20/2008 2:32:10 PM)
Proverbs 19:7 A poor man is shunned by all his relatives, how much more do his friends avoid him! Though he pursues them with pleading, they are nowhere to be found. NIV Brothers and sisters in Christ, why do you think it's that way. Why do you think it's like that? let's expound upon this.

JimboFletch -> RE: A question about Proverbs 19:7 (8/20/2008 2:37:27 PM)
A lot of the proverbs were general observations of all mankind, not necessarily of the righteous. This, I believe, is one of them. On a side note: The book of Ecclesiastes is a book you have to take with an even bigger grain of salt than Proverbs because most of it is the writings of a cynic that has tried everything his way and has wasted much of his life chasing things with the eternal substance of the wind.

deliveredarling -> RE: A question about Proverbs 19:7 (8/20/2008 2:40:37 PM)
quote: The book of Ecclesiastes is a book you have to take with an even bigger grain of salt Take the Word with a grain of salt???? Will you explain what you mean by that? Proverbs wasn't written by a cynic and it doesn't seem like Ecclesiastes was either.

Knolt -> RE: A question about Proverbs 19:7 (8/20/2008 2:41:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JimboFletch A lot of the proverbs were general observations of all mankind, not necessarily of the righteous. This, I believe, is one of them. On a side note: The book of Ecclesiastes is a book you have to take with an even bigger grain of salt than Proverbs because most of it is the writings of a cynic that has tried everything his way and has wasted much of his life chasing things with the eternal substance of the wind. This is a question about Proverbs 19:7

JimboFletch -> RE: A question about Proverbs 19:7 (8/20/2008 2:43:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: deliveredarling quote: The book of Ecclesiastes is a book you have to take with an even bigger grain of salt Take the Word with a grain of salt???? Will you explain what you mean by that? Proverbs wasn't written by a cynic and it doesn't seem like Ecclesiastes was either. If you read the book, you should see what I'm talking about... A sample: "Meaningless! Meaningless!" says the Teacher. "Utterly meaningless! Everything is meaningless." Do YOU think everything is meaningless and without purpose?

deliveredarling -> RE: A question about Proverbs 19:7 (8/20/2008 2:45:06 PM)
quote: Proverbs 19:7 A poor man is shunned by all his relatives, how much more do his friends avoid him! Though he pursues them with pleading, they are nowhere to be found. NIV Brothers and sisters in Christ, why do you think it's that way. Why do you think it's like that? let's expound upon this. I wonder if it has anything to do with the NT scripture of , "if you do not work, you do not eat". Maybe they were experiencing family that wanted to mooch rather than contribute to familial stability. He pursued them with pleading. He begged them to contribute and they were no where to be found. The ones who were asked to work decided that if they couldn't mooch, then they would go elsewhere? (All speculation, no proof, just thinking...)

JimboFletch -> RE: A question about Proverbs 19:7 (8/20/2008 2:45:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Knolt quote: ORIGINAL: JimboFletch A lot of the proverbs were general observations of all mankind, not necessarily of the righteous. This, I believe, is one of them. On a side note: The book of Ecclesiastes is a book you have to take with an even bigger grain of salt than Proverbs because most of it is the writings of a cynic that has tried everything his way and has wasted much of his life chasing things with the eternal substance of the wind. This is a question about Proverbs 19:7 Hence, my qualifier "On a side note." That means, in addition to. Also note "...than Proverbs..." I was simply pointing out that context and circumstances are extremely important in understanding Proverbs - and any other book in the Bible.

deliveredarling -> RE: A question about Proverbs 19:7 (8/20/2008 2:47:27 PM)
quote: Do YOU think everything is meaningless and without purpose? No, of course not. I'm thinking he was feeling sorry for himself, momentarily and was trying to make rhyme out of reason. The book gives us the ability to watch the process, if you will. We've all been there before. It's another way for our God to show us just how much he understands his people[;)]

JimboFletch -> RE: A question about Proverbs 19:7 (8/20/2008 2:47:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: deliveredarling I wonder if it has anything to do with the NT scripture of , "if you do not work, you do not eat". Only if you automatically associate poverty with laziness (which I don't). I have known many poor that were hard working.

Knolt -> RE: A question about Proverbs 19:7 (8/20/2008 3:03:48 PM)
I've heard suggestions about proverbs 19:7 about how that family and friends don't want a poor person around because he may be a moocher. Do you think it could also be that being poor and possibly unemployed doesn't bring out the best in someone? Perhaps family and friends don't want the poor person around not because he's a moocher or because he's lazy, but perhaps the poor person could be a whiner and have a negative attitude about things, etc. Do you think that could be a contributing factor too? You know, when I first read that verse many years ago that's really what I thought of first. I thought maybe the poor person may be an angry and frustrated person and therefore family and friends wouldn't want him around.

JimboFletch -> RE: A question about Proverbs 19:7 (8/20/2008 3:20:19 PM)
Let me put it another way, affluent people often despise having poor, hungry people watching them while they eat a sumptious meal - either from guilt at not sharing or anger that the poor disturb their good time.

deliveredarling -> RE: A question about Proverbs 19:7 (8/20/2008 3:24:35 PM)
Interestingly enough, I can't seem to find a commentary piece on that scripture, I can find vs 8, but not 7. Maybe you've had better luck?

atruefaith -> RE: A question about Proverbs 19:7 (8/20/2008 5:10:11 PM)
quote: The book of Ecclesiastes is a book you have to take with an even bigger grain of salt than Proverbs because most of it is the writings of a cynic that has tried everything his way and has wasted much of his life chasing things with the eternal substance of the wind. I wouldn't heed this advice.

JimboFletch -> RE: A question about Proverbs 19:7 (8/20/2008 5:13:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Conquered quote: The book of Ecclesiastes is a book you have to take with an even bigger grain of salt than Proverbs because most of it is the writings of a cynic that has tried everything his way and has wasted much of his life chasing things with the eternal substance of the wind. I wouldn't heed this advice. What, taking Ecclesiastes with a bit of caution or trying everything but God's way to discover that it's the fool's way to wisdom?

Kath -> RE: A question about Proverbs 19:7 (8/20/2008 8:16:23 PM)
moving from General Faith to The Bible

colliefan -> RE: A question about Proverbs 19:7 (8/20/2008 11:11:33 PM)
In terms of the Book of Ecclesiastes, one must interpret it entoto. In terms of the cited verse, look at it in context Prov 19:6 - 7 (ESV) 6 Many seek the favor of a generous man, and everyone is a friend to a man who gives gifts. 7 All a poor man�s brothers hate him; how much more do his friends go far from him! He pursues them with words, but does not have them.

ironsharpensiron -> RE: A question about Proverbs 19:7 (8/20/2008 11:48:47 PM)
If you put it into context with verse 6 as Colliefan did it makes more sense, and the message is clear. At least to me it is... Beware of 'friends' who want to hang around you when you have money. When you run out they won't be around. Choose your friends wisely is what it is saying to me. Look at the prodigal son in the NT. When his inheritance ran out so did his 'friends,' and he was left with nothing and no one. Just a thought. matthew

MindySue69 -> RE: A question about Proverbs 19:7 (8/21/2008 6:39:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: deliveredarling quote: Do YOU think everything is meaningless and without purpose? No, of course not. I'm thinking he was feeling sorry for himself, momentarily and was trying to make rhyme out of reason. The book gives us the ability to watch the process, if you will. We've all been there before. It's another way for our God to show us just how much he understands his people[;)] Which means that you souldn't take the observations of Solomon in Ecclesiastes as necessarily GODLY TRUTH - a lot of what Solomon was declaring was based on HUMAN WISDOM and we have to see what we find in Ecclesiastes in its intended context.

deliveredarling -> RE: A question about Proverbs 19:7 (8/21/2008 6:50:09 PM)
quote: Which means that you souldn't take the observations of Solomon in Ecclesiastes as necessarily GODLY TRUTH - a lot of what Solomon was declaring was based on HUMAN WISDOM and we have to see what we find in Ecclesiastes in its intended context. Under that premise we can do the same thing with Paul, Timothy etc. We have to be careful to not pick and choose out of the Bible.

MindySue69 -> RE: A question about Proverbs 19:7 (8/21/2008 6:52:21 PM)
Timothy didn't write anything to my knowledge. Paul stated that he killed Christians. Should I take that in context and not assume that he's saying we should kill Christians too ?

deliveredarling -> RE: A question about Proverbs 19:7 (8/21/2008 6:55:24 PM)
quote: Timothy didn't write anything to my knowledge. Sorry, I was thinking of the book[sm=blush.gif] it wouldn't be in the Bible if we were not to use it. God didn't put anything obsolete in it.

MindySue69 -> RE: A question about Proverbs 19:7 (8/21/2008 7:05:29 PM)
So are you saying we should go out and kill us some Christians, so we can do like Paul did, because it's in there? Let's not be silly, okay? Jimbo's remark about taking Ecclesiastes with a grain of salt did not imply that it was worthless but rather that we should consider what we're reading in that book within its proper context and not take isolated verses (that seem to glorify sinful behavior) and apply them as a way to live. Solomon goes on and on about living a flesh-serving, carnal life without any thought for eternity or godliness. Do you think that we're supposed to look at that as an example of how to live, or a warning of how not to live? It needs to be interpreted correctly....in the context of the whole.

deliveredarling -> RE: A question about Proverbs 19:7 (8/21/2008 7:09:42 PM)
That was an oops quote. I didn't mean to quote you on the second part. I'll do an edit real quick. So what do you suppose the message of the book is considering what you just typed about it?

deliveredarling -> RE: A question about Proverbs 19:7 (8/21/2008 7:11:56 PM)
quote: Jimbo's remark about taking Ecclesiastes with a grain of salt did not imply that it was worthless but rather that we should consider what we're reading in that book within its proper context andnot take isolated verses (that seem to glorify sinful behavior) and apply them as a way to live. Nobody was doing this so this remark isn't even valid. I don't want to argue about something Jimbo wrote. Besides this isn't the point of the thread.

greatdivide46 -> RE: A question about Proverbs 19:7 (8/21/2008 7:38:24 PM)
But beyond these, my son, be warned: There is no end to the making of many books, and much study wearies the body. -- Ecclesiastes 12:12 My life verse when I was in college. See, Ecclesiastes is good for something!! [:D]

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