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RE: Personal Prophecy - 8/21/2008 1:56:01 PM
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wintery
Posts: 1866
Joined: 2/1/2007
From: nw alabama
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quote:
ORIGINAL: selahgirl
Operation of spiritual gifts is also performed by imperfect people, who will never get it right every time.
Indeed. I would compare the "healing teams" who are trying to operate in a gift of healing with the personal prophets who are trying to operate in a gift of prophecy. A church with a prayer list can pray corporately for the sick and sometimes God intervenes to heal---while healing teams are just figures of an idea that there _should_ be gifts of healing--and look at the relationship to the personal prophets. They believe there _should_ be prophets and certain people gravitate toward this, to be one or to seek one. We can already seek God for His guidance and check the Scriptures. We can seek godly counsel from one another. But when you enter the flesh zone with words being thrown out which no one has to take responsibility for, we have left seeking God behind to seek a "word". Who can be Jesus for you? NObody.
A really irritating sickness with this is the "wait and see" if it comes true to see if it's of God. Does God put us in this confinement? Or shouldn't we be living our _real_ lives and walking the walk? The chains of waiting on a prophecy to happen are a hindrance to our walk with God.
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RE: Personal Prophecy - 8/21/2008 2:00:07 PM
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selahgirl
Posts: 1234
Joined: 5/20/2005
From: God is with you, never forget that <3
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I have lots of stories.. here's one for ya that would be interesting to hear some input on...
I was on the prayer team and was approached by a couple at the altar who were new in town and who were looking for a church. All they said was that they were looking for some direction from the Lord, didn't really have a prayer request, just needed a touch from God. I began to pray for them, and I was asking the Lord what to pray, what was burdening them the most. The Lord gently spoke to my heart, "they are worried about their baby girl."
Now...
what do I say to these people... what if I just had some inaccurate random thought... the last thing I wanted to do was to hurt these people or confuse them in any way...
but the voice of the Lord was real to me. I heard it just as clearly as I hear my kids say "I hate history!"
so I took a chance. I figure why would God tell me something personal about these people if I'm not supposed to pray with them about it. The whole time I'm asking God to please keep me in line with his perfect will, please don't let me say or do anything that is not of him... and then I told them.
"I just feel like the Lord said something about a baby. Does that make any sense."
Immediately, they both began to cry. So I told them I felt that he said they were worried about their baby girl and I asked them if they had children and if something was wrong. They explained that they were having trouble having a baby. That they had just suffered another miscarriage recently and they were deeply devastated this time.
I found a friend who was also on the prayer team that had suffered the same experience, but who God had blessed with two little boys. I asked her to lead prayer with this couple, and they seemed greatly comforted. God was very present.
Some time passed and the couple moved to town and began attending our church, but I didn't know it. They were in touch with the woman that had prayed with them and was attending their small group Bible Study. It had been about a year after that moment in the altar when our pastor announced that we were having a baby dedication that morning. I looked up and there was the couple we had prayed for. They were committing their beautiful baby girl to the Lord.
was it all coincidence... maybe.
But me personally, I believe that God orchestrated the whole thing and guided us to pray and what to pray... and I believe that he moved thru spiritual gifts in the process. Is everything I feel like God says something divine as though I have some psychic power... no... am I different or more special than any other believer... no... could God move thru anyone who calls upon his name and declares him as Lord... yes.
I strongly believe in words of wisdom, knowledge, and prophecy.
I've just seen it work in ministry too many times.
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RE: Personal Prophecy - 8/21/2008 2:04:07 PM
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selahgirl
Posts: 1234
Joined: 5/20/2005
From: God is with you, never forget that <3
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wintery, but isn't even corporate prayer a wait and see?
do we never pray for someone to be healed again, just because someone wasn't healed the last time we prayed for healing?
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RE: Personal Prophecy - 8/21/2008 2:45:10 PM
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wintery
Posts: 1866
Joined: 2/1/2007
From: nw alabama
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quote:
ORIGINAL: selahgirl
I strongly believe in words of wisdom, knowledge, and prophecy.
I've just seen it work in ministry too many times.
I believe in gaining actual wisdom and knowledge from God's word and in the walk with God and relying on the more sure word already complete and delivered to us in the New Testament.
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RE: Personal Prophecy - 8/21/2008 3:04:40 PM
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WesP
Posts: 2451
Joined: 11/28/2005
From: Where God needs me to be
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quote:
ORIGINAL: selahgirl
I have lots of stories.. here's one for ya that would be interesting to hear some input on...
I was on the prayer team and was approached by a couple at the altar who were new in town and who were looking for a church. All they said was that they were looking for some direction from the Lord, didn't really have a prayer request, just needed a touch from God. I began to pray for them, and I was asking the Lord what to pray, what was burdening them the most. The Lord gently spoke to my heart, "they are worried about their baby girl."
Now...
what do I say to these people... what if I just had some inaccurate random thought... the last thing I wanted to do was to hurt these people or confuse them in any way...
but the voice of the Lord was real to me. I heard it just as clearly as I hear my kids say "I hate history!"
so I took a chance. I figure why would God tell me something personal about these people if I'm not supposed to pray with them about it. The whole time I'm asking God to please keep me in line with his perfect will, please don't let me say or do anything that is not of him... and then I told them.
"I just feel like the Lord said something about a baby. Does that make any sense."
Immediately, they both began to cry. So I told them I felt that he said they were worried about their baby girl and I asked them if they had children and if something was wrong. They explained that they were having trouble having a baby. That they had just suffered another miscarriage recently and they were deeply devastated this time.
I found a friend who was also on the prayer team that had suffered the same experience, but who God had blessed with two little boys. I asked her to lead prayer with this couple, and they seemed greatly comforted. God was very present.
Some time passed and the couple moved to town and began attending our church, but I didn't know it. They were in touch with the woman that had prayed with them and was attending their small group Bible Study. It had been about a year after that moment in the altar when our pastor announced that we were having a baby dedication that morning. I looked up and there was the couple we had prayed for. They were committing their beautiful baby girl to the Lord.
was it all coincidence... maybe.
But me personally, I believe that God orchestrated the whole thing and guided us to pray and what to pray... and I believe that he moved thru spiritual gifts in the process. Is everything I feel like God says something divine as though I have some psychic power... no... am I different or more special than any other believer... no... could God move thru anyone who calls upon his name and declares him as Lord... yes.
I strongly believe in words of wisdom, knowledge, and prophecy.
I've just seen it work in ministry too many times.
There is no problem with this narrative as far as I am concerned, but I do not see any prophecy. God does lead His flock. We do sometimes get nudges to do certain things, but that does not equate to telling the future.
_____________________________
Peace,
Wes
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<--- BTW, this is the true function of corn! It is to help the oil industry and its functionaries, not detract from them! 
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RE: Personal Prophecy - 8/21/2008 3:15:59 PM
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selahgirl
Posts: 1234
Joined: 5/20/2005
From: God is with you, never forget that <3
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quote:
ORIGINAL: wintery
quote:
ORIGINAL: selahgirl
wintery, but isn't even corporate prayer a wait and see?
No one is putting the sick in suspense. They already know they're sick.
quote:
ORIGINAL: selahgirl
do we never pray for someone to be healed again, just because someone wasn't healed the last time we prayed for healing?
If someone thinks they have a gift of healing ... shouldn't it "work"? 
It would seem so... but is everyone healed in a corporate service when leaders pray over them before the body? Is everyone healed that receives prayer for such in private or small group settings? The answer to both is no.
Is God's word a lie?... no
so there much be something we're missing in all of this. Something about the mind of God and how he chooses to work that our minds are just not capable of understanding. But I know that God is justified in whatever the explanation, and I believe in healing in both settings, tho I have no answers for those who are not healed in both settings.
Thank goodness the mind of God is beyond us as man, or we would put him in a box and trivialize him. I love that he leaves us having to trust him, having to take a first step as we listen for his voice to guide us to the next. I love that he's full of mystery and surprise, and that he set a plan in motion that requires us to walk by faith. God is spirit and I love that he calls us to walk in both aspects of who he is and who he has called us to be.
Being spiritual doesn't make you hoaky.
Being imperfect beings doesn't make you hoaky.
Being spiritual and out of the will of God makes you haoky... and in sin.
But so much of the church cringes when someone describes themself or some aspect of gifting as spiritual. I find that fascinating at the same time that I find it very sad.
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RE: Personal Prophecy - 8/21/2008 3:27:41 PM
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selahgirl
Posts: 1234
Joined: 5/20/2005
From: God is with you, never forget that <3
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quote:
ORIGINAL: WesP
quote:
ORIGINAL: selahgirl
I have lots of stories.. here's one for ya that would be interesting to hear some input on...
I was on the prayer team and was approached by a couple at the altar who were new in town and who were looking for a church. All they said was that they were looking for some direction from the Lord, didn't really have a prayer request, just needed a touch from God. I began to pray for them, and I was asking the Lord what to pray, what was burdening them the most. The Lord gently spoke to my heart, "they are worried about their baby girl."
Now...
what do I say to these people... what if I just had some inaccurate random thought... the last thing I wanted to do was to hurt these people or confuse them in any way...
but the voice of the Lord was real to me. I heard it just as clearly as I hear my kids say "I hate history!"
so I took a chance. I figure why would God tell me something personal about these people if I'm not supposed to pray with them about it. The whole time I'm asking God to please keep me in line with his perfect will, please don't let me say or do anything that is not of him... and then I told them.
"I just feel like the Lord said something about a baby. Does that make any sense."
Immediately, they both began to cry. So I told them I felt that he said they were worried about their baby girl and I asked them if they had children and if something was wrong. They explained that they were having trouble having a baby. That they had just suffered another miscarriage recently and they were deeply devastated this time.
I found a friend who was also on the prayer team that had suffered the same experience, but who God had blessed with two little boys. I asked her to lead prayer with this couple, and they seemed greatly comforted. God was very present.
Some time passed and the couple moved to town and began attending our church, but I didn't know it. They were in touch with the woman that had prayed with them and was attending their small group Bible Study. It had been about a year after that moment in the altar when our pastor announced that we were having a baby dedication that morning. I looked up and there was the couple we had prayed for. They were committing their beautiful baby girl to the Lord.
was it all coincidence... maybe.
But me personally, I believe that God orchestrated the whole thing and guided us to pray and what to pray... and I believe that he moved thru spiritual gifts in the process. Is everything I feel like God says something divine as though I have some psychic power... no... am I different or more special than any other believer... no... could God move thru anyone who calls upon his name and declares him as Lord... yes.
I strongly believe in words of wisdom, knowledge, and prophecy.
I've just seen it work in ministry too many times.
There is no problem with this narrative as far as I am concerned, but I do not see any prophecy. God does lead His flock. We do sometimes get nudges to do certain things, but that does not equate to telling the future.
I believe that God was speaking about that baby girl that he had planned for them in the future. I believe that he was saying that they were worried that he would never give her to them, but that he was promising he would. And he did.
Had I known them better, had I had a close relationship with them, I might have shared that I felt it was a possibility. But I would have stressed for them to take it to God, and not trust in my impression alone. I would have cautioned them to walk by faith, but to wait on God for an answer.
But I didn't know them at all. And I didn't feel the Lord pressing me to say such a thing to them. If he had, I would have said it. If he had told me not to say such a thing even if they were close friends, I wouldn't have said it.
It's like a 911 call. When the Holy Spirit is giving direction, you have to follow his voice step by step or someone's life could be jeopardized. That's why I said I believe in it... but I caution people about receiving such things from just anyone. Whether giving ministry or receiving ministry, people need to take it more seriously and be more accountable before God for themselves.
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RE: Personal Prophecy - 8/21/2008 4:33:13 PM
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solarflare
Posts: 798
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It seems that no matter how much you may warn someone that their extra-curricular spiritual activities are not even found in the Bible, no matter how much you already hurt because you know the end is not going to be good for them, no matter how much you wish you could reveal what you know in a way to make it real, they plunge ahead hoping to do what no one before them has done. That is, to prove that something good can come from something bad.
Selahgirl, the only reason I am still writing to you is that I can sense that your heart is genuine. Please, consider the words of those who have cautionned you. You do not want to walk where some of us have walked.
I wish I had listened. I have seen plenty that was 'true' and it does not mean it comes from the Holy Spirit.
Remember that servant girl who followed after Paul declaring he was a servant of the Most High God? Was she lying? No. Then why was Paul so upset ? The spirit speaking through her was a demon. Would it make a difference to you if you knew that a demon was involved even if it was the truth?
This practice of laying hands on people and basically 'telling their fortunes' is absolutely not Scriptural. When the prophet told Paul he would be bound and put in prison, Paul was not in a line up waiting for his future to be foretold.
We have, in many churches, what is for all intents and purposes, nothing more than Christians lining up to have their fortunes told by those who espouse to be 'prophets.' God has not given them this gift and they do not speak on His behalf.
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RE: Personal Prophecy - 8/21/2008 5:07:55 PM
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solarflare
Posts: 798
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quote:
Exactly! You, yourself, are saying you would not flat out make a prophetic declaration. That is the only point I was making. The Lord does sometimes lead us to speak with people but not to predict the future.
I do agree with this, Wes. Thanks!
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RE: Personal Prophecy - 8/21/2008 8:27:10 PM
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selahgirl
Posts: 1234
Joined: 5/20/2005
From: God is with you, never forget that <3
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I don't know what PERSONAL PROPHECY as a movement involves. If that is a teaching that encourages an abusive use of spiritual gifting, then I agree that it should most definitely be renounced and rejected.
But as for the operation of spiritual gifts as laid out in Scripture, I firmly believe that they are for today and should be taught and encouraged -- with all caution and wisdom and reservation before God. Not forgetting or denying that they have a place and purpose in ministry -- not avoiding them, but seeking God as to how they should be manifested with great passion coupled with absolute reverence.
I completely respect all who have commented and shared your heart. I firmly believe that you have spoken out of love and concern for believers that are searching to understand the matter. And I love you for that. Many blessings <3
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RE: Personal Prophecy - 8/22/2008 1:34:40 PM
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Codegrazer
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We must test everything against God's Holy Word. So, what does scripture say? Scripture tells us that the Holy Spirit imparts spiritual gifts. Scripture does not tell us those gifts were only for the early church and certainly not only for the Apostles. The early church (and Apostles, of course) clearly moved in the Holy Spiritual gifts.
Just because we don't know that we have a gift doesn't mean we don't have one. To use a natural example (easier for most of us to understand/relate to than the supernatural) I know people who only discovered their tremendous gifts in painting or music until they were in their "elder" years. They never knew the gift that they had. If you would ask them before they tried and discovered their God given talent(s) they would say they were completely talentless in those areas. Further, though they are obviously exceptionally gifted, they don't start out making the very first painting (or the first thump on the ivory) an awesome work of genius - they got more proficient the more they exercised their gift.
On the OTHER hand, I also know people who sincerely think they are quite gifted artistically and they are absolutely, er..well...definitely not!
I believe the Bible is speaking literally when it instructs about Spiritual gifts. I don't, a priori, rule out anyone being gifted with any of the Spiritual gifts the Bible speaks about because the gifts are scriptural. BUT, I have also been prophesied over by a "prophet" who is extremely well thought of by many of my brothers and sisters in Christ, is very well grounded in the Word, etc. yet the word/prophesy he spoke of to me (2 different times) just never proved true. Sooo...what then?
There is no question that many false prophets and teachers are among us. Some for fame and fortune. Some are just deceived. What's new? Satan has been counterfeiting the things of the Spirit since Adam and Eve. He raises doubt and suspicion about the legitimate work of the Spirit in this way. We need to acknowledge this and watch for it.
We need to be vigilant in our discernment regarding Spiritual gifts, constantly praying in the Spirit and thoroughly immersed in the Word every day, to sift the wheat from the chaff. Unfortunately it seems, as there was in the past there remains today more chaff than whaet! But as someone already said, let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater. The water may be dirty, and there may be a lot of it, but the baby is good and worth keeping.
< Message edited by Codegrazer -- 8/22/2008 5:50:54 PM >
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RE: Personal Prophecy - 8/22/2008 6:56:59 PM
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TrustingGod
Posts: 150
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I looked up the NT word for prophecy in Strongs and the Greek word used means:
4735, propheteia: Prophecy, an inspired message, sometimes encouraging obedience to God, sometimes proclaiming the future as a warning to preparedness and continued obedience.
4736, propheteuo, to prophesy, to speak an inspired message, sometimes encouraging obedience to God, sometimes proclaiming the future as a warning to preparedness and continued obedience.
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RE: Personal Prophecy - 8/22/2008 7:27:26 PM
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peacebringer
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Now here is something to think about. There was a period in my life where God used prophetic visions through a friend to basically lead me through a rough time and a period of healing. Lots of things went down when God started that process. The vision was always tested with the Word of God and was generally vague but ultimately taught me something about myself and God. I do believe we are to despise not prophecy but to test everything. I don't think we need to be looking to receive prophecy. I wasn't. Yet, I know God can choose to speak as he will and it will NEVER contradict the Word of God and usually there ended up being a passage of scripture or a few that ended up relating to the images. Yet, it was also very tempting to "depend" and look for the "special messages." And the thing is when they served there purpose they ceased with the only exception being right at the beginning of the tie of darkness in my marriage. None since. God did tell me In that I had a weakness with my voice and needed to move in using my voice. Still working on that process and stil a lot of healing to go. God is good.
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http://peacebringer7.wordpress.com/
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RE: Personal Prophecy - 8/22/2008 8:00:43 PM
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TrustingGod
Posts: 150
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Thank you for your input. I have sent an email back to those who responded and asked for Scriptural reference of personal prophecy time. As I searched the NT, I don't see evidence of it.
RLJ, in the passages you quoted, I see in Acts that it was a prophecy intended specifically for Paul, but it doesn't indicates that it was a one-on-one time of sharing and receiving. In fact, it sounds like Phillip and his four daughters were there as well as Agabus, when Agabus shared his prophecy for Paul. In fact, a group of believers was there - unless they found out later??
In I Tim, the "elders" (plural) laid hands on to receive the gifts prophesied... The picture (to me) is of the elders laying on of hands to receive gifts - implying a group was present (at least more than one elder). Maybe not - maybe I'm reading too much, since this is a letter to Timothy and not to a church as a whole. Maybe Timothy was the only one present with the elders - they were the prophecy team.
I ask that you all pray for this situation. If it is from God, I pray that He will open my eyes to the truth. If it is not from God, I pray that He will open the eyes of those involved and of the leadership of the church. Thank you.
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RE: Personal Prophecy - 8/22/2008 8:24:34 PM
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peacebringer
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I wouldn't advocate a group time of 'personal' prophecy. It wreaks of seeking after something other then God, or trying to get God to act. Prophecies happen, but as God wills. It cannot, nor should not be manufacured. If it was a time of just seeking God, and gifts happen as they will another story all together.
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http://peacebringer7.wordpress.com/
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RE: Personal Prophecy - 8/23/2008 10:22:11 AM
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selahgirl
Posts: 1234
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I get what some are saying about the danger of times of personal prophecy being a focus of the service. I much prefer times of prayer and ministry, and if God speaks a prophetic word to an individual or to the body then it is done as a small part of a greater ministry. When any one gift is pushed to the forefront, it opens the door to move the heart and minds of people in the wrong direction.
I believe in speaking in tongues. But I have seen gross abuse in services where a call was given and no one responded. It opened the door for people to step out into the flesh, the minister would become offended... Those that spoke in tongues already, would take on an air of arrogance... Those that did not speak in tongues would cringe under a spirit of condemnation. And in that moment it was evident that God had left the building.
It is sometimes the same case for the gift of prophecy. Sometimes God wants the focus to be prayer or worship or healing or encouragement or meditation and wisdom... who are we to force the Holy Spirit into a box and tell him what gift to move thru at any given time. I have been in settings where no prophecy went forth, but much prayer would pour from the hearts of individuals... and soon a a spirit of worship and weeping and repentance would break out. Some people who followed the adrenaline of giving prophecy or a word, would be somewhat disappointed or grasp at some mumbling that carried no anointing. And some stepped off into the flesh and would complain about the service or this person or that person. You could just see the spirits behind such attempts at error become restless and frustrated as they would manifest in the tantrums and whines of certain people.
That is the error or PERSONAL PROPHECY as a movement imo.
When it is pushed to the forefront of ministry when it is merely a very small part of the whole, and very insignificant when compared to salvation and repentance. Why does no one have repentance services? haha.
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RE: Personal Prophecy - 8/23/2008 10:29:10 AM
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rlj
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quote:
When it is pushed to the forefront of ministry when it is merely a very small part of the whole, and very insignificant when compared to salvation and repentance.
I agree with that, well said.
_____________________________
-Roger
This is who I'm voting for. He is from the same party I voted for last time. This is consistent with my belief in the failure of the two party system and my disgust with it.
http://www.baldwin08.com/#
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RE: Personal Prophecy - 8/23/2008 10:38:37 PM
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TrustingGod
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Here's what I've worked out in my mind/heart.
The model of the gift of prophecy in the NT is that a word was given to the "prophet" or the one with the gift of prophecy and he shared it with the church or the person it was directed to. It does not show individuals seeking out those with the gift and asking for a word.
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RE: Personal Prophecy - 8/24/2008 6:15:09 PM
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Liveloved
Posts: 1876
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quote:
Here's what I've worked out in my mind/heart.
The model of the gift of prophecy in the NT is that a word was given to the "prophet" or the one with the gift of prophecy and he shared it with the church or the person it was directed to. It does not show individuals seeking out those with the gift and asking for a word.
I agree. If a person is eager to be a prophet, they probably aren't. The prophetic gift comes with horrendous responsibility and consequences because MOST do not want to hear what a prophet has to say. Therefore, if one has this gift, they must be Spirit led and growing in grace and godliness to withstand the backlash.
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RE: Personal Prophecy - 8/26/2008 11:26:29 AM
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This would be a complete shame because I really love the one I have now. 
RE: Personal Prophecy -