RE: Do you think that giving more recess time at school would solve a lot of problems?
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RE: Do you think that giving more recess time at school... - 8/25/2008 7:56:58 AM
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buckifn
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quote:
As far as paying a bit more in property taxes to cover the school costs... you get what you pay for. If you don't want to pay for improving the educational system to better serve our children and communities, then ask yourself why not.
That is most often not the case in areas I have lived and worked. What usually happens is property taxes go up, high level administration receives most of the $$$$, and little, if any improvements are made at the classroom level. I have seen increased class size (from 26 to 29 students per class) at the same time there was a reduction in support staff such as teaching assist.
I have also seen reduction in the availability of fine arts opportunities. I think we all lose when that happens. I also think it is unfair to ask teacher's to work another hour each day on the meager salaries they are now receiving.
How about the parent's turn off the tv, computer, video games, etc. and take their kids on a bike ride, or go for a walk, or some other physical activity?
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RE: Do you think that giving more recess time at school... - 8/25/2008 8:40:29 AM
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garsyt
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Oh I don't mind spending more on my taxes to benefit schools don't get me wrong. BUT our lovely state governor has put a cap on property taxes as have many states and now schools are struggling with just to keep honors and AP level courses at high schools, AND academics such as music and science in elementary schools. In fact our district was essentially forced to eliminate all our science specialist teachers from our elementary schools. Science will still be taught - but by classroom teachers with little specialized training in the field. Music is another course that is being cut nationwide as well. Thankfully it hasn't happened in our district yet, but I can see it happening.
In our current economy even schools are being hit hard and looking for ways to cut expenses. Some schools across the country are going to 4 days a week and extending the school day those 4 days to cut costs. IF schools went to 8 hour days it is entirely possible that teachers would be in the building 9 to 10 hours a day AND those teachers are going to want to be compensated for those extra hours. Sure there are referendums and so forth that we can hope and work to pass and our district has one of those on the ballot already for next spring. But it's going to be a fight because there are plenty of folks that don't have children in the school system that are totally loving the idea of lower property taxes and families are barely making it from one paycheck to the next and simply have no more to give. I agree that you get what you pay for - but to convince the general public that more is needed for the sake of our children is tough when everyone is struggling economically.
Then you have a large portion of our country that do not live in urban or even suburban areas. Lots of schools deal with bussing rural students and our district is one of them. IF my kids are extending their day in school to 8 hours a day that really means they are gone at least 9 or more hours, and there are districts that have even longer bus rides for their kids. In our district, especially in the late fall and winter, the middle and high schoolers are getting on the bus in the dark and IF we were to extend the school day our elementary children would be getting home in the dark. The district to the south of us - some kids ride the bus for over an hour daily, then if there are after school activities, and kids are awake later at night and have LESS family time. Then children are unable to get the sleep needed to perform sufficiently.
But we are getting off track a little bit.
I STILL believe that it is primarily the responsibility of a child's PARENTS to see that their children are getting enough exercise and nutritious meals, AND that those same children are prepared to deal with the expectations of school AND if the child is having problems at school it is the PARENTS that need to step in and HELP the school figure out what is best for their child.
My youngest ds does not have ADD or ADHD but he is a typical boy. He does tend to lose focus in some classes and at times does need to brought back from a time of daydreaming - more then most kids. BUT his teachers KNEW I was behind them all the way and that I would do what I could.
I also believe that SOMETIMES people put way to much time into their work and not enough of their time into their children. Many 2 income families really don't NEED to be that way as it is taking time away from families functioning as they should.
Blessings,
Garsy
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RE: Do you think that giving more recess time at school... - 8/25/2008 9:44:01 AM
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stellaluna
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Of course it is up to parents to make sure their children have enough activity, but really, isn't it all about balance? Do adults sit at a desk for eight hours without moving? Very rarely. Children need breaks and I think some schools have lost sight of the fact that kids would likely perform better if they had a chance to move and play every once in awhile.
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RE: Do you think that giving more recess time at school... - 8/25/2008 12:10:58 PM
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coolfamily6
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quote:
I've always thought that the school day should be extended to 8 hrs. As far as recess- that's usually handled by the classroom teachers rather than athletic staff. PE does require athletic staff, but with a longer school day(and keep in mind teachers are salaried, not hourly employees so their pay would not increase for additional hours),
Most teachers I know already work more than an 8 hour day. A newly married couple in my SS class teaches at a high school they arrive by 7 am and leave at 5 pm. No overtime just a commitment to their students. They also said they bring work home most nights.
I worked at a middle school for 2 yrs the teachers arrived by 7:15 and were required to be on campus until 4pm even though school dismissed at 3:15. Many left after their required 4pm and again most brought work home with them.
I do not know anyone who works in a school that works less than an 8 hour day.
As far as the OP's question: I agree with those who posted that the problem is not a lack of recess but a lack of parents disciplining their kids. A lot want the school to be a free babysitter but do not want them to discipline their children.
There are children with ADD and ADHD but I feel that many are misdiagnosed because rather than parents disciplining their child they want an excuse/reason for the behavior. Some teachers are the same way because their hands are tied with discipline.
My son's preschool teacher (he was 4) insisted that he needed to be medicated for ADD. He is not the "cookie cutter" kids she was looking for so she wanted him drugged for her class. Instead we kept him home for another year. He does not have ADD and is a straight a student who plays the piano beautifully.
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RE: Do you think that giving more recess time at school... - 8/26/2008 4:56:51 PM
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garsyt
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quote:
That is most often not the case in areas I have lived and worked. What usually happens is property taxes go up, high level administration receives most of the $$$$, and little, if any improvements are made at the classroom level. I have seen increased class size (from 26 to 29 students per class) at the same time there was a reduction in support staff such as teaching assist.
I have also seen reduction in the availability of fine arts opportunities. I think we all lose when that happens. I also think it is unfair to ask teacher's to work another hour each day on the meager salaries they are now receiving.
Oh that is SO true. I'm so PEEVED that we lost our science specialist in our district's elementary schools, but the higher up administration (superintendent, transportation director, Human resources director, and the principal and athletic director at the high school) got to keep their "company" paid for cars with a "stipend" for gas. Oh and let's not forget about the fact that the school pays for the insurance on those cars too. Oh and when the district offices got 10 brand new copy machines - but balked at getting our elementary school one that worked properly all the time. They put more money into paying the repair man to come out to fix the machine, then they finally put into the new machine they bought after a year of troubles.
Thankfully to this point parents have fought and most of the time we've at least got an aide in classrooms over 25 kids even if that aide is shared with another classroom, so our class sizes are not totally unmanageable. Most of our class sizes are remaining less then 25 per classroom with the average being 22. But I do think that will be one of the things that could be a problem in the future with the schools budget being what it is and the focus not always being on what's best for the kids from those at the administration level.
Blessings,
Garsy
_____________________________
My Blog: www.moredayslikethisplease.wordpress.com
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RE: Do you think that giving more recess time at school... - 8/27/2008 1:35:39 PM
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mapachito13
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quote:
ORIGINAL: PaleHawkWoman
I've always thought that the school day should be extended to 8 hrs. As far as recess- that's usually handled by the classroom teachers rather than athletic staff. PE does require athletic staff, but with a longer school day(and keep in mind teachers are salaried, not hourly employees so their pay would not increase for additional hours), the staff should be able to get to all of the students. Most athletic staff also teach other subjects, so its not exactly like doubling the staff to meet the demand.
A longer school day would also cut down on kids home alone after school. Homework clubs, staffed by PTO members, could be set up at school for kids to attend while waiting to be picked up by parents if they do not ride the bus. My son attends an academic magnet school(#24 in the nation BTW) and there are no school buses for it- the students are either brought to/picked up from school by car or ride the MTA. Since the downtown library is up the block, some students wait there for their parents after school and use the time to study. There used to be Girls and Boys clubs in many communities which had after-school programs ranging from tutoring to sports practice. The kids were supervised in a safe environment at a nominal fee to the parents. It would seem to be an idea in need of resurrection. Some churches likewise have or have had similar programs.
As far as paying a bit more in property taxes to cover the school costs... you get what you pay for. If you don't want to pay for improving the educational system to better serve our children and communities, then ask yourself why not. If you think the schools are poorly managed, get involved with the PTO or the school board. Talk to your city councilman- frequently. Get together with other parents and be the change you seek by starting programs in the schools and raise funds to run them properly and independently. Get the community involved in it by engendering a sense of pride and responsibility in community youth.
It all boils down to what you're willing to do.
My wife a "salaried" employee has a school day from 8:00-3:00 pm (although she gets there at 6:30-7:00am) every day (7 hours) with grading papers, planning lessons, parent meetings, department meetings, administrative leaders and running her dept. as dept. chair (which gets her a whopping $100 extra a month); she adds 3-5 hours of work each day and sometimes with chaparoning dances and attending the sports contests or drama plays, etc. of her students, the weekends aren't our own either.
So my wife and I would ask why another 5 hours are necessary. The parents have to do THEIR JOB sometime! Schools are not day-care nor babysitting services for the general populace!
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"I would argue that the most serious threat to the United States is not someone hiding in a cave in Pakistan or Afghanistan, but our own fiscal irresponsibility."-David Walker, fmr comptroller general of the US
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RE: Do you think that giving more recess time at school... - 8/27/2008 1:39:29 PM
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mapachito13
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quote:
ORIGINAL: garsyt
quote:
That is most often not the case in areas I have lived and worked. What usually happens is property taxes go up, high level administration receives most of the $$$$, and little, if any improvements are made at the classroom level. I have seen increased class size (from 26 to 29 students per class) at the same time there was a reduction in support staff such as teaching assist.
I have also seen reduction in the availability of fine arts opportunities. I think we all lose when that happens. I also think it is unfair to ask teacher's to work another hour each day on the meager salaries they are now receiving.
Oh that is SO true. I'm so PEEVED that we lost our science specialist in our district's elementary schools, but the higher up administration (superintendent, transportation director, Human resources director, and the principal and athletic director at the high school) got to keep their "company" paid for cars with a "stipend" for gas. Oh and let's not forget about the fact that the school pays for the insurance on those cars too. Oh and when the district offices got 10 brand new copy machines - but balked at getting our elementary school one that worked properly all the time. They put more money into paying the repair man to come out to fix the machine, then they finally put into the new machine they bought after a year of troubles.
Thankfully to this point parents have fought and most of the time we've at least got an aide in classrooms over 25 kids even if that aide is shared with another classroom, so our class sizes are not totally unmanageable. Most of our class sizes are remaining less then 25 per classroom with the average being 22. But I do think that will be one of the things that could be a problem in the future with the schools budget being what it is and the focus not always being on what's best for the kids from those at the administration level.
Blessings,
Garsy
It's worse in high school where they usually spend less per student than the elementary schools. Check out the SARC's (School Accountability Report Card) on the Dept. of Ed's website for the school in your area and you'll see.
_____________________________
Peace Sells....But Who's Buying!
"I would argue that the most serious threat to the United States is not someone hiding in a cave in Pakistan or Afghanistan, but our own fiscal irresponsibility."-David Walker, fmr comptroller general of the US
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RE: Do you think that giving more recess time at school... - 8/27/2008 2:42:31 PM
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garsyt
Posts: 2243
Joined: 4/12/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mapachito13
quote:
ORIGINAL: garsyt
quote:
That is most often not the case in areas I have lived and worked. What usually happens is property taxes go up, high level administration receives most of the $$$$, and little, if any improvements are made at the classroom level. I have seen increased class size (from 26 to 29 students per class) at the same time there was a reduction in support staff such as teaching assist.
I have also seen reduction in the availability of fine arts opportunities. I think we all lose when that happens. I also think it is unfair to ask teacher's to work another hour each day on the meager salaries they are now receiving.
Oh that is SO true. I'm so PEEVED that we lost our science specialist in our district's elementary schools, but the higher up administration (superintendent, transportation director, Human resources director, and the principal and athletic director at the high school) got to keep their "company" paid for cars with a "stipend" for gas. Oh and let's not forget about the fact that the school pays for the insurance on those cars too. Oh and when the district offices got 10 brand new copy machines - but balked at getting our elementary school one that worked properly all the time. They put more money into paying the repair man to come out to fix the machine, then they finally put into the new machine they bought after a year of troubles.
Thankfully to this point parents have fought and most of the time we've at least got an aide in classrooms over 25 kids even if that aide is shared with another classroom, so our class sizes are not totally unmanageable. Most of our class sizes are remaining less then 25 per classroom with the average being 22. But I do think that will be one of the things that could be a problem in the future with the schools budget being what it is and the focus not always being on what's best for the kids from those at the administration level.
Blessings,
Garsy
It's worse in high school where they usually spend less per student than the elementary schools. Check out the SARC's (School Accountability Report Card) on the Dept. of Ed's website for the school in your area and you'll see.
Oh I know - it's just that I am more aware of whats happening at the elementary level in our district because I have 3 kids there and only one in high school at this point.
There is talk about if the referendum vote does not go in favor of the school this next April that it is very likely that the high school in our district will lose ALL our advanced placement course - not some but ALL. And from what I hear from my ds his class sizes are quite large except for his theatre class which is at about 27 kids and is considered a small class. 
blessings,
Garsy
_____________________________
My Blog: www.moredayslikethisplease.wordpress.com
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RE: Do you think that giving more recess time at school... - 8/27/2008 3:10:07 PM
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mapachito13
Posts: 2499
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quote:
ORIGINAL: garsyt
quote:
ORIGINAL: mapachito13
quote:
ORIGINAL: garsyt
quote:
That is most often not the case in areas I have lived and worked. What usually happens is property taxes go up, high level administration receives most of the $$$$, and little, if any improvements are made at the classroom level. I have seen increased class size (from 26 to 29 students per class) at the same time there was a reduction in support staff such as teaching assist.
I have also seen reduction in the availability of fine arts opportunities. I think we all lose when that happens. I also think it is unfair to ask teacher's to work another hour each day on the meager salaries they are now receiving.
Oh that is SO true. I'm so PEEVED that we lost our science specialist in our district's elementary schools, but the higher up administration (superintendent, transportation director, Human resources director, and the principal and athletic director at the high school) got to keep their "company" paid for cars with a "stipend" for gas. Oh and let's not forget about the fact that the school pays for the insurance on those cars too. Oh and when the district offices got 10 brand new copy machines - but balked at getting our elementary school one that worked properly all the time. They put more money into paying the repair man to come out to fix the machine, then they finally put into the new machine they bought after a year of troubles.
Thankfully to this point parents have fought and most of the time we've at least got an aide in classrooms over 25 kids even if that aide is shared with another classroom, so our class sizes are not totally unmanageable. Most of our class sizes are remaining less then 25 per classroom with the average being 22. But I do think that will be one of the things that could be a problem in the future with the schools budget being what it is and the focus not always being on what's best for the kids from those at the administration level.
Blessings,
Garsy
It's worse in high school where they usually spend less per student than the elementary schools. Check out the SARC's (School Accountability Report Card) on the Dept. of Ed's website for the school in your area and you'll see.
Oh I know - it's just that I am more aware of whats happening at the elementary level in our district because I have 3 kids there and only one in high school at this point.
There is talk about if the referendum vote does not go in favor of the school this next April that it is very likely that the high school in our district will lose ALL our advanced placement course - not some but ALL. And from what I hear from my ds his class sizes are quite large except for his theatre class which is at about 27 kids and is considered a small class.
blessings,
Garsy
I get a unique perspective having one child in elementary, one in middle school and a wife that teaches in high school, albeit, in a neighboring district. Being involved at all three levels has given me a different perspective than before. I've gotten educated on education so to speak.
Here's a prayer though that all our children have a fruitful and safe year!
God Bless!
Edited to correct my inglitch spellen! 
_____________________________
Peace Sells....But Who's Buying!
"I would argue that the most serious threat to the United States is not someone hiding in a cave in Pakistan or Afghanistan, but our own fiscal irresponsibility."-David Walker, fmr comptroller general of the US
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RE: Do you think that giving more recess time at school... - 8/27/2008 4:12:16 PM
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garsyt
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quote:
I get a unique perspective having one child in elementary, one in middle school and a wife that teaches in high school, albeit, in a neighboring district. Being involved at all three levels has given me a different perspective than before. I've gotten educated on education so to speak.
That will be me next year. I'll have one at the high school, one at the middle school and two at the elementary level. Actually starting next year I'll have kids in three buildings for 3 straight years and in the middle and high school for the following 3 years.
Hey weigh in on my thread in the public and private schooling thread. I'd love to get your wife's opinion.
quote:
Here's a prayer though that all our children have a fruitful and safe year!
Now that's a prayer I can definitely agree wholeheartedly!
Blessings,
Garsy
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My Blog: www.moredayslikethisplease.wordpress.com
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RE: Do you think that giving more recess time at school... - 8/27/2008 7:28:24 PM
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mapachito13
Posts: 2499
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quote:
ORIGINAL: garsyt
Hey weigh in on my thread in the public and private schooling thread. I'd love to get your wife's opinion.
I'll have to look up that thread. If you could shoot me the link, I'd be very appreciative!
_____________________________
Peace Sells....But Who's Buying!
"I would argue that the most serious threat to the United States is not someone hiding in a cave in Pakistan or Afghanistan, but our own fiscal irresponsibility."-David Walker, fmr comptroller general of the US
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RE: Do you think that giving more recess time at school... - 8/27/2008 7:33:28 PM
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willfs
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I just heard that they have eliminated naps for kindergarteners in the local schools where I live. These same kids only get one recess.
I really think it boils down to the fact that George Bush and Ted Kennedy are in charge of our children. No offense to either guy, not to say they are evil. To say they are in charge of our children is a bit of an exaggeration but my point is that when they implemented No Child Left Behind they took direct control of every public school in the country. Now every school has a huge amount of accountability. Accountability is good but there is such a thing as too much. Schools are stressed to the max to make sure every kid can pass a certain test. The problem is that those tests don't measure a child's physical health, happiness, attitudes...etc.. Schools are so stressed at getting the kids to know what is on the tests that physical health, happiness, attitude are pushed to the side.
When God told Isreal to take one day a week to rest, they were considered odd. All the other nations and cultures around them worked all the time. But a desperate desire for more money, success, material goods, abundance...etc... can wear someone out. God knew this.
It seems like our nation is full of workaholics, especially when compared to others. Our test scores don't show this because our nation is one of the only ones to admit every child. Many other nations don't keep every child but only the best, which is why their test scores are better than ours. But back to the workaholism. We are making sure our kids grow up to carry on our workaholism. And we start in Kindergarten.
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RE: Do you think that giving more recess time at school... - 8/27/2008 8:51:04 PM
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garsyt
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quote:
I just heard that they have eliminated naps for kindergarteners in the local schools where I live. These same kids only get one recess.
I don't have a problem with this really, as by this age most children have given up naps anyway. I am however completely against mandatory full day kindergarten. I think parents NEED to be given the choice of full or half day classrooms.
Full day kindergartens around here get gym twice a week, and their daily lunch recess and the kindergarten teachers especially those teaching full day are extremely good at getting those kiddos out for an extra recess especially when it is nice outside.
You also have to remember that PARENTS are expecting more and more from schools nowdays and many children have also had 2 or 3 years of preschool PRIOR to kindergarten.
Blessings,
Garsy
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My Blog: www.moredayslikethisplease.wordpress.com
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RE: Do you think that giving more recess time at school... - 8/27/2008 8:59:43 PM
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garsyt
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mapachito13
quote:
ORIGINAL: garsyt
Hey weigh in on my thread in the public and private schooling thread. I'd love to get your wife's opinion.
I'll have to look up that thread. If you could shoot me the link, I'd be very appreciative!
I just PM'd you!
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