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RE: Special "Children's" Section on Planes... - 8/22/2008 3:02:04 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 5660
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From: Oklahoma
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The question of the thread is should we put children is a special section of the plave as not to "Bother" us adults when we fly.
My felling is No we (as Christians) should not.
I feel there are more Scriptural ways to deal with upset children than to isolate them;
But that might just be the Grandfater in me.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
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RE: Special "Children's" Section on Planes... - 8/22/2008 3:07:51 PM
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Kath
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We need to move on past the discussion concerning how one approaches children on the plane. The point has been made and has degenerated to critiquing one another's approach. Please, just stop. We all have our experiences and to suggest someone's approach is suspect is harassing, off topic and unwelcome counsel, Terms of Service violations.
Thank you for your compliance in this matter.
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RE: Special "Children's" Section on Planes... - 8/22/2008 5:14:16 PM
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blessedinnyc
Posts: 1963
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
The question of the thread is should we put children is a special section of the plave as not to "Bother" us adults when we fly.
My felling is No we (as Christians) should not.
I feel there are more Scriptural ways to deal with upset children than to isolate them;
But that might just be the Grandfater in me.
Thanks
RC
How about an alternative:
A special sleeping section. Chairs recline an extra 5 degrees. No talking. No drunkenness. No lighting. No screaming, tantrums, or climbing on chairs. Non-compliant passengers are forcibly reseated in the regular section by retired librarians who like working as flight attendants.
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RE: Special "Children's" Section on Planes... - 8/22/2008 10:49:46 PM
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Annie64
Posts: 927
Joined: 6/4/2007
From: Indianapolis, IN
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quote:
ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc
How about an alternative:
A special sleeping section. Chairs recline an extra 5 degrees. No talking. No drunkenness. No lighting. No screaming, tantrums, or climbing on chairs. Non-compliant passengers are forcibly reseated in the regular section by retired librarians who like working as flight attendants.
Actually, a special quiet section sounds like it may be a possible solution. That way, parents won't feel that their kids are being isolated because some grumpy person expects them to act up. The person who wants quiet is the one who gets isolated.
BTW, I still don't think a special kids section is a horrible idea if it's done to make flying more kid-friendly, not less. That is, done for the sake of the kids, not for the sake of those who don't want to be bothered by them.
_____________________________
On Christ the solid rock I stand
ALL other ground is sinking sand.
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RE: Special "Children's" Section on Planes... - 8/22/2008 10:51:56 PM
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MindySue69
Posts: 321
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and I'll bet there will be no problems filling up the "quiet" section! People may fight for it, opening up a whole NEW set of problems! LOL
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RE: Special "Children's" Section on Planes... - 8/23/2008 12:28:09 AM
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lightshineon
Posts: 3553
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Truthfully it would be great, especially flying with really little babies, and small children. It could be a place for changing, and maybe entertainement for the toddler, and, if they do it right, it could be a good thing for the children.
_____________________________
Remember, whenever you have pearls, there are always plenty of pigs nearby who would be glad to step on them.
F.T., 2007
Be sure you vote for those, whose views you want your children to emulate.
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RE: Special "Children's" Section on Planes... - 8/23/2008 6:25:03 AM
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buckifn
Posts: 1777
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about the quiet section
they have those at the library and they don't work....so I don't see it working on a plane either. What airline has the $$$$ to furnish another stewardess to be the "noise police"?
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RE: Special "Children's" Section on Planes... - 8/23/2008 7:04:36 AM
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Annie64
Posts: 927
Joined: 6/4/2007
From: Indianapolis, IN
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quote:
ORIGINAL: buckifn
about the quiet section
they have those at the library and they don't work....so I don't see it working on a plane either. What airline has the $$$$ to furnish another stewardess to be the "noise police"?
Hmm. You're probably right. But is was a pretty good idea, anyway.
_____________________________
On Christ the solid rock I stand
ALL other ground is sinking sand.
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RE: Special "Children's" Section on Planes... - 8/23/2008 7:48:21 AM
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_jjp_
Posts: 483
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jenny-Fair
I feel it necessary to point out that even the best parent will have a misbehaving child at times.
Which is yet another reason for the seperate section
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RE: Special "Children's" Section on Planes... - 8/23/2008 8:08:37 AM
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_jjp_
Posts: 483
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quote:
ORIGINAL: CoeurdeLeon
quote:
ORIGINAL: Sideways
quote:
ORIGINAL: moon_mouse
In my experience, children acting up in public are usually in a situation where they aren't developmentally ready to deal with their environment, because the parents want to do something on the timetable most convenient to them. I think it's time to swing the pendulum back the other direction a little bit and uphold the Biblical principal of parents guiding and directing their children into proper behavior.
A lot of Americans living in Germany thought Germans were awful people who disliked children, because you didn't often see children at nicer restaurants or nighttime movie showings or other such situations. Germans love their children, they just don't take them to places that are meant for adult behavior before the kids are capable of adult behavior. If the parents want to go out, they arrange child care or stay home.
Now, often a plane ride is unavoidable, but I agree that Americans seem to have such a love affair with their children that they cannot be separated from them even for a few hours, yet they still want to go out. We do go to restaurants with our boy, but only ones where children are frequently seen and expected.
There is a difference between a child misbehaving when he knows better and a child who simply isn't mature enough to deal with the given situation.
I think this is very key. Americans also have a love affair with doing what they want, when they want regardless of whether their children are capable of doing it with them. No matter how much we'd like to deny it, life is a bunch of trade-offs. Have an infant or toddler? Then perhaps it isn't wise to do every single thing that you did before (and will be able to do again later). But if you do refuse to limit your activities, at least have the decency to not be outraged if the rest of us aren't pleased as Punch to have to sit next to you or your darling angels in a confined space.
If your infant cries everytime you take them to a restaurant then they are probably not ready to go there. Continuing to bring them is only adding stress to the infant and other patrons and IMO is a sign of selfishness that your desire to go to a restaurant trumps the comfort of your child and the patrons.
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RE: Special "Children's" Section on Planes... - 8/23/2008 8:50:28 AM
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rcjames
Posts: 5660
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc
How about an alternative:
A special sleeping section. Chairs recline an extra 5 degrees. No talking. No drunkenness. No lighting. No screaming, tantrums, or climbing on chairs. Non-compliant passengers are forcibly reseated in the regular section by retired librarians who like working as flight attendants.
Wouldn't that be First Class?
One Japanese airline offers a "Super" first class similiar to what you are talking about, even has sleeping booths available.
The ticked from Japan to the States rusn around 8,000 dollars.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Special "Children's" Section on Planes... - 8/23/2008 8:56:18 AM
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garsyt
Posts: 2243
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quote:
ORIGINAL: lightshineon
Truthfully it would be great, especially flying with really little babies, and small children. It could be a place for changing, and maybe entertainement for the toddler, and, if they do it right, it could be a good thing for the children.
quote:
ORIGINAL: buckfin
about the quiet section
they have those at the library and they don't work....so I don't see it working on a plane either. What airline has the $$$$ to furnish another stewardess to be the "noise police"?
I doubt ANY airline has the $$$$$ to do either of these. The costs of flying are so prohibitive to so many families anyway, that all plane riders ought to count their blessings. If cost were lower there would be many more families choosing to fly. As it is many are giving up vacations altogether.
Blessings,
Garsy
_____________________________
My Blog: www.moredayslikethisplease.wordpress.com
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RE: Special "Children's" Section on Planes... - 8/23/2008 8:57:54 AM
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rcjames
Posts: 5660
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
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Now here is an idea that has not been floated.
While waiting to board the plane; load the kids up with prosac, Valium, Xanax, Serax, Ativan, Klonopin, Librium and.or Tranxene.
The amount could be determined by body weight and length of the flight (it should probably be doubled for the tarmac wait at a lot of the airports).
Then sweet quiet bliss for all the grumpy adults.
It would be a lot cheaper than separate sections and a lot more effective.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Special "Children's" Section on Planes... - 8/23/2008 9:30:46 AM
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coolfamily6
Posts: 253
Joined: 4/18/2005
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First I would have a problem with being forced to sit in the back of the plane because I have children with me. I have a HUGE fear of flying and need to be near the exit when possible.
I fly with three children about once a year. My oldest is 14 and her first flight was at 6 months old, she slept from TPA to NO. I have never had a child cry an entire flight but they have fussed for a short time. I used bring books, toys (sometimes noise makers, sorry) and any food that I think will keep them happy. If they eat the entire flight rather than crying good. I have just as much frustration with my child crying as the others who are forced to listen.
As far as flying on business trips with dh, when we homeschooled we did it a lot and no I would not take a seperate flight to make someone else feel better. I think it is rude to even suggest that. People do not know my kids (or others they see boarding) yet they make a judgement.
We flew from TPA to Las Vegas for vacation. Southwest does not assign seats, so you have to line up in numberic order of your boarding passes. My MIL flew with us and is handicapped, so she and my older daughter boarded first. DH flies 2-3 times a week, so he gets to board in the first group. I was in a group further back with the other two kids, a dad walked his three kids (around 8-12 yrs old) in front of me. He also got to board early; in order to get seats together you have to take advantage of this or have your kids spread out in the plane. The children's numbers were spread out but the dad told them all to stay in line together (because the older one's number was in front of me). The older daughter was worried that people would complain that they were "cutting" in line. I told her not to worry just pretend they were with me because my children's numbers were spread out too. There was no way I was putting my kids in the back of the line with strangers. The dad was releaved. But sure enough as soon as a lady noticed the number on one of the kids tickets she got upset that they were ahead of her! I looked at her and said "Really, do you want to be the one to put that 8 yr old in the back of the line unattended? Someone could grab her and be gone before she is missed." Good grief.
I now had 5 kids in line "with" me, a guy and his companion got in line and one said to the other, "I bet you 50 bucks this is going to be an awful flight." He was looking right at me and these children!  I had to bite my tongue not to say to him, I'll take your bet. I knew by the 5 minutes I had stood in line with those 3 children that their behavior would be fine and mine are good travelers. The flight was so nice that I wish I had spoken up! 
My husband travels a lot, he has been on his share of flights with crying/misbehaving children it is not fun. But when I fly I pay for my seats just like everyone else. I do not think I should have to banished to the back of the plan or "special" section because of my children.
BTW, on the above flight my MIL as sitting next to a man who talked about planes crashing, and mechanical problems that the "public" does not know about for the entire 5 hour flight. I would have been a basket case. I have also gotten sick on a flight with a stomach thing. I was in the middle and had to keep asking the lady next to me to let me out. She was very gracious; I kept saying I was sorry. I am sure her flight was awful because of me. I actually prayed she did not catch that bug!
_____________________________
If your bible is a mess; your life won't be.
~Encouragement a mom gave to our children at our First Grader's Bible Ceremony!
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RE: Special "Children's" Section on Planes... - 8/23/2008 1:43:01 PM
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bluestone
Posts: 2934
Joined: 2/25/2008
From: United States of America
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I think the answer is the crew removing anyone with hysterical children as soon as possible. That may be at the rear of the plane, or on the ground in Toledo. As someone who has sat on long flights with some momma's precious little screamer nearby, I think it is the only solution. Why should an airplane full of people have to listen to your screamer? If you won't control your child, someone else has to.
I am not talking about a frightened child who will calm down in a bit. I am talking about the kids that are terrors on the ground as well as in flight.
My kids were always quiet. They KNEW the consequences were severe if they disturbed adults. Long talk a few days before the flight, on the day of the flight, and standing in line to board. I also tried to keep them occupied during take off, as that was when they were a little scared, due to the engine noise.
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I need Christ. Not something that resembles Christ.
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RE: Special "Children's" Section on Planes... - 8/23/2008 3:56:41 PM
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babbred
Posts: 566
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: CoeurdeLeon
quote:
ORIGINAL: Sideways
quote:
ORIGINAL: moon_mouse
In my experience, children acting up in public are usually in a situation where they aren't developmentally ready to deal with their environment, because the parents want to do something on the timetable most convenient to them. I think it's time to swing the pendulum back the other direction a little bit and uphold the Biblical principal of parents guiding and directing their children into proper behavior.
A lot of Americans living in Germany thought Germans were awful people who disliked children, because you didn't often see children at nicer restaurants or nighttime movie showings or other such situations. Germans love their children, they just don't take them to places that are meant for adult behavior before the kids are capable of adult behavior. If the parents want to go out, they arrange child care or stay home.
Now, often a plane ride is unavoidable, but I agree that Americans seem to have such a love affair with their children that they cannot be separated from them even for a few hours, yet they still want to go out. We do go to restaurants with our boy, but only ones where children are frequently seen and expected.
There is a difference between a child misbehaving when he knows better and a child who simply isn't mature enough to deal with the given situation.
I think this is very key. Americans also have a love affair with doing what they want, when they want regardless of whether their children are capable of doing it with them. No matter how much we'd like to deny it, life is a bunch of trade-offs. Have an infant or toddler? Then perhaps it isn't wise to do every single thing that you did before (and will be able to do again later). But if you do refuse to limit your activities, at least have the decency to not be outraged if the rest of us aren't pleased as Punch to have to sit next to you or your darling angels in a confined space.
Amen and amen to all of the above. My sister and her husband are living over in Japan, where they recently had a baby. Just a few days after she was born, sister and hubby were out and about like normal. My sister reported that Japanese women would look at her, horrified. In their culture, they stay home for the first month after they have a baby. I didn't want to get in trouble with my sister, but I think the Japanese are on to something.
_____________________________
There's nothing better than a good friend, unless it's a good friend with chocolate.
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RE: Special "Children's" Section on Planes... - 8/23/2008 4:00:49 PM
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babbred
Posts: 566
Joined: 5/5/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MindySue69
Boy some people like to argue just for the sake of arguing. Seems like if someone says "LEFT" someone else is going to say "RIGHT" just to be contrary.
I want to petition for a special section for drunks. My last cross-country flight was late at night and my seat mate was sloshed when he got on board, and he never shut up the entire time.
Everyone else on the plane got to sleep. But me.
As a former airline employee, I can tell you that I'd rather deal with a drunk. If he's in the gate area, you just deny him from boarding. If he's on the plane, then shame on the employees for putting him there, but at least you can threaten to ground the plane and throw him off. OTOH, I have literally seen parents drag a child kicking and screaming onto an airplane, and once the plane is airborne there's nothing you can do. They'd probably sue you if you tried to keep them off or throw them off.
_____________________________
There's nothing better than a good friend, unless it's a good friend with chocolate.
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RE: Special "Children's" Section on Planes... - 8/23/2008 4:07:57 PM
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babbred
Posts: 566
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
Now here is an idea that has not been floated.
While waiting to board the plane; load the kids up with prosac, Valium, Xanax, Serax, Ativan, Klonopin, Librium and.or Tranxene.
The amount could be determined by body weight and length of the flight (it should probably be doubled for the tarmac wait at a lot of the airports).
Then sweet quiet bliss for all the grumpy adults.
It would be a lot cheaper than separate sections and a lot more effective.
Thanks
RC
Actually, you can do that. While we lived in Britain, I was friends with a fellow American ex-pat who had two toddlers. Whenever she had to fly back to the States, she would get her pediatrician to prescribe a sleeping med for the kids, that she would give them just before boarding. She loved it because it gave her some peace and quiet, as well.
As for a separate section, I'm not sure if that would work. On British trains they have a quiet car, but it doesn't always work. Once hubby and I were in one these cars with a bunch of rowdy fans going to a soccer game. Evidently the staff didn't have the courage to stand up to them, because that was one of the worst journeys of my life. It wasn't that they were just exuberant; they made a big deal about how they were flaunting the rule and deliberately sitting in the wrong car. (And the whole train was crowded, so hubby and I couldn't have sat together anywhere else. Fortunately, the fans got off before us.)
_____________________________
There's nothing better than a good friend, unless it's a good friend with chocolate.
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RE: Special "Children's" Section on Planes... - 8/23/2008 4:12:12 PM
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lightshineon
Posts: 3553
Joined: 4/11/2005
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I was thinking more for the kids than adults. Kids do not bother me, I love them. I was thinking the long flights, international and such must be so hard for the little ones. RC, where did you get your medicine list ?(LOL), is it medicine your people drive you too in the ministry, I can see why, sometimes. I am just kidding and you know it. 
quote:
ORIGINAL: garsyt
quote:
ORIGINAL: lightshineon
Truthfully it would be great, especially flying with really little babies, and small children. It could be a place for changing, and maybe entertainement for the toddler, and, if they do it right, it could be a good thing for the children.
quote:
ORIGINAL: buckfin
about the quiet section
they have those at the library and they don't work....so I don't see it working on a plane either. What airline has the $$$$ to furnish another stewardess to be the "noise police"?
I doubt ANY airline has the $$$$$ to do either of these. The costs of flying are so prohibitive to so many families anyway, that all plane riders ought to count their blessings. If cost were lower there would be many more families choosing to fly. As it is many are giving up vacations altogether.
Blessings,
Garsy
_____________________________
Remember, whenever you have pearls, there are always plenty of pigs nearby who would be glad to step on them.
F.T., 2007
Be sure you vote for those, whose views you want your children to emulate.
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