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RE: Special "Children's" Section on Planes... - 8/20/2008 7:20:47 PM
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Sideways
Posts: 3934
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quote:
ORIGINAL: clag4christ
quote:
ORIGINAL: landabee
quote:
I guess I could say the same thing to rude parents who choose not to control their kids, then get offended if I give precious little Brytenney Jayne a dirty look when she kicks my chair for the 900th time, after I've asked her to please stop.
Exactly.
How about instead of giving a child (misbehaving or not) a 'dirty look' you take up your problem with the parent, in a kind Christian manner? Giving a kid a dirty look sure won't get the situation rectified...it's not like by scowling at the kid whose undisciplined that that child will all of a sudden have a change of heart about kicking your chair...
Does that not seem obvious to everyone?
She clearly stated in her post that she did ask for the behavior to stop. The parent was not unaware of her state. I'd be giving a few grumpy looks too if I asked for the child to stop and the parent did nothing.
Christians are not doormats, and if you ask the child to stop, in full hearing of the parents and the child continues to kick you, then taking it up with the flight attendants is probably the next step. But it's only human to give a few dirty looks at that point.
And we're not talking about crying or bad behavior that lasts 5 minutes before the parent can control the situation, these people are talking about stuff that goes on quite a bit longer then that.
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This warranty does not include shark bites, bear attacks and children under five.
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RE: Special "Children's" Section on Planes... - 8/20/2008 7:35:44 PM
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landabee
Posts: 2760
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Central Florida
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quote:
Why, again, should parents be relegated to the back of the plane? How about I start a petition that all 'selfish-ies' who cannot put a wee baby's needs above their own desire for a perfectly peaceful flight in the back of the plane where it's hot and the flight attendants are rude?
While I have said that first class wasn't necessary........ I never said back of the plane. I never once said that I wanted the children to be miserable. That would be just mean. I just want parents to parent.
BTW.........most flight attendants are not rude, in my experiences.
And again........graciousness goes both ways.
_____________________________
"Sound theology discourages ignorance instead of promoting it." ~ CourdeLeon
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RE: Special "Children's" Section on Planes... - 8/20/2008 7:55:31 PM
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moon_mouse
Posts: 361
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quote:
ORIGINAL: clag4christ
How about instead of giving a child (misbehaving or not) a 'dirty look' you take up your problem with the parent, in a kind Christian manner? Giving a kid a dirty look sure won't get the situation rectified...it's not like by scowling at the kid whose undisciplined that that child will all of a sudden have a change of heart about kicking your chair...
Does that not seem obvious to everyone?
As several subsequent posters have pointed out, a dirty look was not the first reaction.  Usually I start with something like, "hon, I'm sure you don't mean to, but you're accidentally kicking the back of my chair." If that doesn't work, then I'll address the parents. Unfortunately, a good portion of parents whose kids wouldn't respond to a polite request are the ones who will give the roll eyes and act like you're a jerk for not wanting your kidneys pummeled. The "knock it off" look is a last resort, and frankly sometimes it works, by either letting the child know you're serious or embarrassing the parent enough to get them to pull their head out of...the sand... and take action.
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RE: Special "Children's" Section on Planes... - 8/20/2008 8:03:20 PM
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moon_mouse
Posts: 361
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quote:
ORIGINAL: garsyt
That's just it!!!
Everyone defines unruly and bad behavior in completely different ways. There is not a definitive, non-negotiable, set definition that EVERYONE can agree on.
I've heard this before, and I guess a good rule of thumb would be is if one person or couple in an area is looking at you, it may just be crankiness on their part. If several people are looking, or a number of people are staring at their dinner plates/safety information pamphlets in an attempt not to stare, the behavior may be inappropriate for that time and place. Also, my parents had the "chairs are for bottoms, not feet" rule (in other words, when you are inside at a place that has seats, your bottom should be in the seat a majority of the time) and the "indoor voice" rule. I know kids need to get up more often than adults, and that occasionally they'll shout out or get excited and talk loud, but I don't think it's out of line to ask them to conform generally to the noise and activity level of the place they are currently in.
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RE: Special "Children's" Section on Planes... - 8/20/2008 8:18:46 PM
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landabee
Posts: 2760
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From: Central Florida
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quote:
Also, my parents had the "chairs are for bottoms, not feet" rule (in other words, when you are inside at a place that has seats, your bottom should be in the seat a majority of the time) and the "indoor voice" rule. I know kids need to get up more often than adults, and that occasionally they'll shout out or get excited and talk loud, but I don't think it's out of line to ask them to conform generally to the noise and activity level of the place they are currently in.
Even a reasonable attempt is greatly appreciated.
Also, it is SO much easier to give grace when you see that a child is being unreasonable and a parent is doing all that they can to rectify the situation. Sometimes kids DO have meltdowns. I understand that.
But I draw the line when a child is disruptive just for the sake of being disruptive, or is combative or greatly violating person space.
I have had parents sincerely apologize. And I respect that. Every one has a bad day now and again.
I don't know how to clearly describe it, but it is usually apparent when misbehavior is NORMAL and goes unchecked. Those are the little darlings that I think most of those who are irritated speak of.
Children are children. But that does not mean that we use that as an excuse to not properly socialize them to polite society.
And BTW, my parents had and I have the same rules for seats and indoor voices, moonmouse. They work when applied consistently.
_____________________________
"Sound theology discourages ignorance instead of promoting it." ~ CourdeLeon
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RE: Special "Children's" Section on Planes... - 8/20/2008 8:43:56 PM
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moon_mouse
Posts: 361
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quote:
ORIGINAL: landabee
Also, it is SO much easier to give grace when you see that a child is being unreasonable and a parent is doing all that they can to rectify the situation. Sometimes kids DO have meltdowns. I understand that.
I agree. Plenty of parents I've seen give that glance that says "I know, I'm sorry for the disruption, and I'm working on it." And, it really goes a long way toward engendering patience from me.
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RE: Special "Children's" Section on Planes... - 8/20/2008 9:22:22 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 5771
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
Given your willingness to appease unruly children and you view of children who are not unruly I am not surprised, though since this is simply you personal assertion and cannot be verified it's nothing really but an opinion and not based on anything factual.
Wwll I consider 45 years in the Ministry a little more factual than just opinion. Now if you are calling me a liar, this conversation might reach a whole new level.
Helping any parent when they are having troublw with their children is a good and Godly thing to do. And everyone I have helped have been very appreciative and grateful.
It is just a matter of showing love and concern for a frightened and confused child; it is not rocket science.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Special "Children's" Section on Planes... - 8/20/2008 9:25:13 PM
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landabee
Posts: 2760
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From: Central Florida
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quote:
And everyone I have helped have been very appreciative and grateful.
I'm very glad for you and the families that you've encountered for that to have been the case.
Your experience is only yours. Our experience is only ours. We must ALL be doing something wrong to not have the same EXACT experiences and outcomes as you have.
_____________________________
"Sound theology discourages ignorance instead of promoting it." ~ CourdeLeon
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RE: Special "Children's" Section on Planes... - 8/20/2008 9:34:32 PM
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moon_mouse
Posts: 361
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames.
It is just a matter of showing love and concern for a frightened and confused child; it is not rocket science.
Thanks
RC
It's not rocket science to you. Have you considered that perhaps you have a special gift from God for relating to children? Seriously, even with the best of intentions, with children in my own family that I know well, I have no luck calming them or helping their parents get them under control. It's always an unmitigated disaster. I'm just not good with kids! Now, give me a room full of teenagers, and I can usually get them working as a team to do just about anything.
I would also say that not every child who misbehaves is frightened or confused. Sometimes kids know exactly what they are doing, and that they are going to get away with it or get what they want, because they have always been allowed to.
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RE: Special "Children's" Section on Planes... - 8/20/2008 9:45:28 PM
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buckifn
Posts: 1863
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just an ex. of children being totally rude in public and parent's don't do anything about it..
at church 1 of the leader's kid's goes around punching people in the stomach with his fist and laughs about it. What is really sad is the mother sees it and laughs too.
I seen it and with the mother standing there took the child's fist in my hand and said this is NOT funny and you do not walk up to someone and punch them EVER. Do you understand that? And you know what..the kid looked down at the floor ashamed for doing that. He is old enough to understand right and wrong...It's too bad his parent's aren't wise enough to parent him.
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RE: Special "Children's" Section on Planes... - 8/20/2008 11:17:43 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5921
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: Northern Califonria
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
Wwll I consider 45 years in the Ministry a little more factual than just opinion. Now if you are calling me a liar, this conversation might reach a whole new level.
Your 45 years in the Ministry doesn't change human behavior or the fact that there are people who would take you to task for doing something regarding their children... I have seen people taken to task for dealing with their kids by people with unruly children...
quote:
Helping any parent when they are having troublw with their children is a good and Godly thing to do. And everyone I have helped have been very appreciative and grateful.
Agreed... Of course every situation is different... So while what you say is true it doesn't take into account everyone and every situation regardless how many times it's worked for you...
quote:
It is just a matter of showing love and concern for a frightened and confused child; it is not rocket science.
Sure... And I have seen cases where one's love and concern was said to be meddling in other people's business.
John
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RE: Special "Children's" Section on Planes... - 8/21/2008 8:57:48 AM
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CoeurdeLeon_
Posts: 9306
Joined: 9/4/2005
From: Inside my head
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Sideways
quote:
ORIGINAL: moon_mouse
In my experience, children acting up in public are usually in a situation where they aren't developmentally ready to deal with their environment, because the parents want to do something on the timetable most convenient to them. I think it's time to swing the pendulum back the other direction a little bit and uphold the Biblical principal of parents guiding and directing their children into proper behavior.
A lot of Americans living in Germany thought Germans were awful people who disliked children, because you didn't often see children at nicer restaurants or nighttime movie showings or other such situations. Germans love their children, they just don't take them to places that are meant for adult behavior before the kids are capable of adult behavior. If the parents want to go out, they arrange child care or stay home.
Now, often a plane ride is unavoidable, but I agree that Americans seem to have such a love affair with their children that they cannot be separated from them even for a few hours, yet they still want to go out. We do go to restaurants with our boy, but only ones where children are frequently seen and expected.
There is a difference between a child misbehaving when he knows better and a child who simply isn't mature enough to deal with the given situation.
I think this is very key. Americans also have a love affair with doing what they want, when they want regardless of whether their children are capable of doing it with them. No matter how much we'd like to deny it, life is a bunch of trade-offs. Have an infant or toddler? Then perhaps it isn't wise to do every single thing that you did before (and will be able to do again later). But if you do refuse to limit your activities, at least have the decency to not be outraged if the rest of us aren't pleased as Punch to have to sit next to you or your darling angels in a confined space.
_____________________________
This morning I was awakened by the sound of purple
colliding with the fragrance of laughter.
Eutychus
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RE: Special "Children's" Section on Planes... - 8/21/2008 10:32:43 AM
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MindySue69
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Boy some people like to argue just for the sake of arguing. Seems like if someone says "LEFT" someone else is going to say "RIGHT" just to be contrary.
I want to petition for a special section for drunks. My last cross-country flight was late at night and my seat mate was sloshed when he got on board, and he never shut up the entire time.
Everyone else on the plane got to sleep. But me.
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RE: Special "Children's" Section on Planes... - 8/21/2008 10:50:24 AM
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Sideways
Posts: 3934
Joined: 4/12/2005
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You can complain about a drunken passenger. At the least they should stop serving him alcohol. That must've been pretty rotten, though.
_____________________________
This warranty does not include shark bites, bear attacks and children under five.
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RE: Special "Children's" Section on Planes... - 8/21/2008 12:56:54 PM
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garsyt
Posts: 2210
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The one thing I see as a problem with a special section is that it treats ALL parents and ALL children as if they are going to be a problem for the "general population" It seems to ASSUME that simply by virtue of being a minor you're going to cause a disturbance, or kick seats, or cry or otherwise annoy someone. That's what happened on the ONLY flight my eldest ds has ever been on. Because ONE person said something the flight attendant was practically begging that we take the open seats in the rear of the plane.
Seeing that we don't fly and haven't in 12 years, the closest I can approximate is a movie theatre. Closed, confined space since when I paid a price to attend a movie unless I choose to. I've sat in SEVERAL movies with kids. And I've been to several movies where my hubby and I went without our children. BY FAR the rudest folks were NOT the children's movies. I've never had my seat kicked, my hair pulled or someone else's food spilled on me at a movie with my children, even during the FREE matinees offered during the summer months. I've NEVER had to tell a child more then once to sit down and watch the movie! However at certain shows with my hubby, all theses things have happened more then once.
Blessings,
Garsy
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RE: Special "Children's" Section on Planes... - 8/21/2008 1:04:43 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 5771
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
Your 45 years in the Ministry doesn't change human behavior or the fact that there are people who would take you to task for doing something regarding their children... I have seen people taken to task for dealing with their kids by people with unruly children...
You may be right John, but in 45 yeares at Church and thousands of hours of flight time all over the word, I have never ran abross a parent who "Took me to task" for helping them with an unruly child. This goes for Wal-marrt and the malls also.
They have always been receptive, kind, and grateful.
Thsnks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Special "Children's" Section on Planes... - 8/21/2008 1:06:02 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5921
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: Northern Califonria
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
Your 45 years in the Ministry doesn't change human behavior or the fact that there are people who would take you to task for doing something regarding their children... I have seen people taken to task for dealing with their kids by people with unruly children...
You may be right John, but in 45 yeares at Church and thousands of hours of flight time all over the word, I have never ran abross a parent who "Took me to task" for helping them with an unruly child. This goes for Wal-marrt and the malls also.
They have always been receptive, kind, and grateful.
Thsnks
RC
I happy for you and the parents you helped...
John
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RE: Special "Children's" Section on Planes... - 8/21/2008 7:12:42 PM
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mapachito13
Posts: 2543
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
Your 45 years in the Ministry doesn't change human behavior or the fact that there are people who would take you to task for doing something regarding their children... I have seen people taken to task for dealing with their kids by people with unruly children...
You may be right John, but in 45 yeares at Church and thousands of hours of flight time all over the word, I have never ran abross a parent who "Took me to task" for helping them with an unruly child. This goes for Wal-marrt and the malls also.
They have always been receptive, kind, and grateful.
Thsnks
RC
I agree with you RC that MOST parents are grateful for help in calming their child when it is offered in kindness but I have also had experiences similar to John as well. There are some parents that will not have anyone point out to them their child's bad behavior or address their children directly for it also; even in the most polite terms.
Your 45 years of good experiences are downright miraculous in my book.
_____________________________
Peace Sells....But Who's Buying!
"I would argue that the most serious threat to the United States is not someone hiding in a cave in Pakistan or Afghanistan, but our own fiscal irresponsibility."-David Walker, fmr comptroller general of the US
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RE: Special "Children's" Section on Planes... - 8/22/2008 11:34:45 AM
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bluestone
Posts: 2934
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From: United States of America
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If they do create a special section for children, will the price of tickets go up when those sections don't fill up on every flight?
Flying with empty seats is a money loser.
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I need Christ. Not something that resembles Christ.
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RE: Special "Children's" Section on Planes... - 8/22/2008 1:30:52 PM
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solo_soprano22
Posts: 2431
Joined: 4/27/2005
From: I'm a Southern girl
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mapachito13
quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
Your 45 years in the Ministry doesn't change human behavior or the fact that there are people who would take you to task for doing something regarding their children... I have seen people taken to task for dealing with their kids by people with unruly children...
You may be right John, but in 45 yeares at Church and thousands of hours of flight time all over the word, I have never ran abross a parent who "Took me to task" for helping them with an unruly child. This goes for Wal-marrt and the malls also.
They have always been receptive, kind, and grateful.
Thsnks
RC
I agree with you RC that MOST parents are grateful for help in calming their child when it is offered in kindness but I have also had experiences similar to John as well. There are some parents that will not have anyone point out to them their child's bad behavior or address their children directly for it also; even in the most polite terms.
Your 45 years of good experiences are downright miraculous in my book.
My sister is that way. My nephew can do something blatantly wrong repeatedly (or harmful to himself); if YOU correct him, she'll getcha... good too. She's broken down my door once over it. I know of some things she's done to others over similar things. In her mind, you don't DARE try to help her out, correct her children, help her children, whether you're trying to be kind, helpful, etc. or not.
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