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RE: Special "Children's" Section on Planes... - 8/20/2008 2:46:02 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 5771
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From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: moon_mouse
If the parent needs help and welcomes it, and the Christian in question is good with children, nothing. But caring for a someone else's child is not every random stranger's responsibility. It's primarily the responsibility of the parents. And, some parents don't welcome people they don't know stepping in.
You might be correct; it is not everyone's responsibility; but it surely is every Christians responsibility to help in any troubling situation that they can. (The Good Samaritan for example)
In hunderds fo flights I have never had a parent of an unreuly child not take my offer to help; not even onece, not even when we did not speak the same language.
The language of love and concern is international.
Folks that just complain about these situations need to just get a life.
Thsnks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Special "Children's" Section on Planes... - 8/20/2008 3:01:39 PM
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moon_mouse
Posts: 361
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quote:
You might be correct; it is not everyone's responsibility; but it surely is every Christians responsibility to help in any troubling situation that they can. (The Good Samaritan for example)
I have no problem with helping people in need, however I see more and more parents following the world's example of being only concerned for yourself and you own convenience. In my experience, children acting up in public are usually in a situation where they aren't developmentally ready to deal with their environment, because the parents want to do something on the timetable most convenient to them. I think it's time to swing the pendulum back the other direction a little bit and uphold the Biblical principal of parents guiding and directing their children into proper behavior.
quote:
Folks that just complain about these situations need to just get a life.
 I guess I could say the same thing to rude parents who choose not to control their kids, then get offended if I give precious little Brytenney Jayne a dirty look when she kicks my chair for the 900th time, after I've asked her to please stop. Courtesy goes both ways.
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RE: Special "Children's" Section on Planes... - 8/20/2008 4:57:02 PM
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landabee
Posts: 2760
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Central Florida
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There is a distinct difference to a child being fussy/cranky and tired or scared...from a willful, misbehaving child that has had no training. The latter is made worse in a confined space with a parent that has no interest in taking control.
Sadly, it is (often) those parents that seem least likely to welcome even KIND assistance.
I am a parent. However, I've never been a parent that refused to train, discipline or hand out consequences. I've never been so awestruck by the "perfectness" of my little preciouses to subject strangers to willful bad behavior.
I think these are the types of situations many of us are talking about.
_____________________________
"Sound theology discourages ignorance instead of promoting it." ~ CourdeLeon
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RE: Special "Children's" Section on Planes... - 8/20/2008 4:58:54 PM
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landabee
Posts: 2760
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Central Florida
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quote:
I guess I could say the same thing to rude parents who choose not to control their kids, then get offended if I give precious little Brytenney Jayne a dirty look when she kicks my chair for the 900th time, after I've asked her to please stop.
Exactly.
_____________________________
"Sound theology discourages ignorance instead of promoting it." ~ CourdeLeon
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RE: Special "Children's" Section on Planes... - 8/20/2008 5:06:02 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5921
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: Northern Califonria
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
John, I am not going to get into a food fight with anyone over this topic.
Ok...
quote:
If Children are bing unruly on a plane and their parinet cannot or will not appease them; then what is the world is wrong with a Christian showing the love of God toward the children and their parnets by helping them with the child?
Nothing... I never said there was... You are creating your own issue here...
As well... I know parents who would come unglued if you even offered to help, even in the most Christlike manner... I have had parents threaten me at the store for dealing with my children, why there are running around pulling clothes off the racks and peaking into the ladies dressing room...
quote:
The same thing happens in Chruch; so what to do; send the child and the parent out of the sanctuary
Depends on the situation... Or do you believe there isn't a situation that could call for such action...
quote:
, condemn the mother for not raising her child appropriatly, duct tape the mouth of the child or what???
Since we are in hyperbole land why not mention something like beating them with a baseball bat... That's sounds better than just duct taping their mouth shut...
quote:
I usually just stop teaching, go and pick up the child and hold them close while calming them. sometimes I carry the child back to the pulpit and finish the sermon whilde holding the child. That is very similiar to what I do on a plane.
For some kids that only strengthens their resolve to misbehave... Or does that truth not come into play here as well?
quote:
I just do not see why that so many folks want to diss the parents instead sf showling the love of Christ by helping soneone who is obviously in distress.
Ah... Magic... No such thing has parents that take no issue with their children being unruly and the last thing they want is someone meddling in their personal business...
John
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RE: Special "Children's" Section on Planes... - 8/20/2008 5:08:12 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5921
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From: Northern Califonria
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
I would think that a child who was "Trained" to a point that they would sit for four hours strapped into a seat in a strange enviroment and be still and silent; would either be abused or catatonic.
Ok... This is making more sense...
John
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RE: Special "Children's" Section on Planes... - 8/20/2008 5:08:35 PM
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Sideways
Posts: 3934
Joined: 4/12/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: moon_mouse
In my experience, children acting up in public are usually in a situation where they aren't developmentally ready to deal with their environment, because the parents want to do something on the timetable most convenient to them. I think it's time to swing the pendulum back the other direction a little bit and uphold the Biblical principal of parents guiding and directing their children into proper behavior.
A lot of Americans living in Germany thought Germans were awful people who disliked children, because you didn't often see children at nicer restaurants or nighttime movie showings or other such situations. Germans love their children, they just don't take them to places that are meant for adult behavior before the kids are capable of adult behavior. If the parents want to go out, they arrange child care or stay home.
Now, often a plane ride is unavoidable, but I agree that Americans seem to have such a love affair with their children that they cannot be separated from them even for a few hours, yet they still want to go out. We do go to restaurants with our boy, but only ones where children are frequently seen and expected.
There is a difference between a child misbehaving when he knows better and a child who simply isn't mature enough to deal with the given situation.
_____________________________
This warranty does not include shark bites, bear attacks and children under five.
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RE: Special "Children's" Section on Planes... - 8/20/2008 5:11:01 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5921
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: Northern Califonria
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
In hunderds fo flights I have never had a parent of an unreuly child not take my offer to help; not even onece, not even when we did not speak the same language.
I have seen it countless times, and have had parents of unruly children take me to task because I had the nerve to deal with my children...
quote:
Folks that just complain about these situations need to just get a life.
Folks who appease unruly children are not doing them a favor...
John
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RE: Special "Children's" Section on Planes... - 8/20/2008 5:57:08 PM
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blessedinnyc
Posts: 2007
Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: landabee
As someone that flies a few times yearly for business, and a few times more for pleasure...........
It is very difficult to know how a parent may respond to a stranger attempting to assist.
I know exactly what you mean. As a lifeguard in high school, I worked at a pool where the parents would watch us like hawks. One time, a parent turned red in the face because someone said "That's stupid" to me front of his kid. Yet another time, a parent freaked out when I worked with a seven year old by teaching her how to do the backstroke. She thought that I was trying to drown her after I had done the exact same thing with all of the other kids (having them pull their arm out of the water and then push the water down to their side.)
Parents can be pretty unpredictable when you're doing anything involving their kids. Sometimes, I wonder if it may be safer to be around grizzly cubs!
The only explanation I have for rcjames's success with children's parents is that he must be a Pentecostal pastor with Word of People Skills.
< Message edited by blessedinnyc -- 8/20/2008 6:22:13 PM >
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RE: Special "Children's" Section on Planes... - 8/20/2008 6:22:38 PM
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clag4christ
Posts: 2631
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: We just moved to the big state of Texas!
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quote:
ORIGINAL: landabee
quote:
I guess I could say the same thing to rude parents who choose not to control their kids, then get offended if I give precious little Brytenney Jayne a dirty look when she kicks my chair for the 900th time, after I've asked her to please stop.
Exactly.
How about instead of giving a child (misbehaving or not) a 'dirty look' you take up your problem with the parent, in a kind Christian manner? Giving a kid a dirty look sure won't get the situation rectified...it's not like by scowling at the kid whose undisciplined that that child will all of a sudden have a change of heart about kicking your chair...
Does that not seem obvious to everyone?
_____________________________
<-----Jael as Tinkerbell - Halloween 2008
If you don't want people to insult your intelligence; don't make it so obvious that you have none.
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RE: Special "Children's" Section on Planes... - 8/20/2008 6:24:11 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 5771
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
In hunderds fo flights I have never had a parent of an unreuly child not take my offer to help; not even onece, not even when we did not speak the same language.
I have seen it countless times, and have had parents of unruly children take me to task because I had the nerve to deal with my children...
Must be a difference in the way we approach children. Or the manner in which you "Deal" with your children.
quote:
Folks who appease unruly children are not doing them a favor...
Invaribly appeasing an unruly child on an airplane is to speak to them and get their mind off of their fears. A lot of times just making a silly face or playing peep-eye from behind a magazine is all that it takes.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Special "Children's" Section on Planes... - 8/20/2008 6:29:08 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5921
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: Northern Califonria
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
Must be a difference in the way we approach children. Or the manner in which you "Deal" with your children.
You appease and believe that children who are not unruly are abused are catatonic...
quote:
Invaribly appeasing an unruly child on an airplane is to speak to them and get their mind off of their fears. A lot of times just making a silly face or playing peep-eye from behind a magazine is all that it takes.
You mean a traumatized child right?
John
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RE: Special "Children's" Section on Planes... - 8/20/2008 6:30:59 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5921
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: Northern Califonria
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quote:
ORIGINAL: landabee
As someone that flies a few times yearly for business, and a few times more for pleasure...........
It is very difficult to know how a parent may respond to a stranger attempting to assist.
The most I have done with a child that was irritable (note: NOT misbehaving) is play a game of peek a boo. I never, EVER touch someone else's child. It isn't worth it should something be alleged.
Yup...
quote:
Again: I expect children to act as children.........not as little monsters with parents that either ignore or inadequately take charge.
Come now... There are no little monsters just traumatized children with overwhelmed parents...
John
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RE: Special "Children's" Section on Planes... - 8/20/2008 6:31:11 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 5771
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
The same thing happens in Chruch; so what to do; send the child and the parent out of the sanctuary
Depends on the situation... Or do you believe there isn't a situation that could call for such action...
I have preached over 7000 sermons and have never had to send a child out of the sanctuary. Though I have take a few disruptive adults and escourted them out the door.
quote:
Ah... Magic... No such thing has parents that take no issue with their children being unruly and the last thing they want is someone meddling in their personal business...
I have yet to have a problem in helping parents with unruly children; on a plane or in Church.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Special "Children's" Section on Planes... - 8/20/2008 6:31:21 PM
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clag4christ
Posts: 2631
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: We just moved to the big state of Texas!
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quote:
Everyone defines unruly and bad behavior in completely different ways. There is not a definitive, non-negotiable, set definition that EVERYONE can agree on.
quote:
He said that it brought joy to his heart to here a child singing and happy and not just screaming and throwing a tantrum. Yet this grumpy goat thought my child was unruly and annoying and the couple in the next aisle thought she was a delight.
I personally thought she was being great child. But obviously not everyone agreed with me.
Indeed...I agree with you and I'm so very sad to hear that old curmudgeon freaked out on you for absolutely no reason...that is absolutely appalling behavior on his part.
As far as fussiness...when we took Hannah and Jael with us for Joel's work up to Colorado Jael's 'fussiness' would be what others would deem screaming. But that's her personality...she's a red headed spit-fire and doesn't do anything in half measures. It's all or nothing with her. I was terrified of what other passengers would think and how they would respond when she need to eat or got tired on the flight. I did everything I possibly could and she still cried for a short period of time (less than 5 minutes) before I could settle her...
Why, again, should parents be relegated to the back of the plane? How about I start a petition that all 'selfish-ies' who cannot put a wee baby's needs above their own desire for a perfectly peaceful flight in the back of the plane where it's hot and the flight attendants are rude?
_____________________________
<-----Jael as Tinkerbell - Halloween 2008
If you don't want people to insult your intelligence; don't make it so obvious that you have none.
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RE: Special "Children's" Section on Planes... - 8/20/2008 6:32:54 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5921
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: Northern Califonria
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quote:
ORIGINAL: clag4christ
quote:
ORIGINAL: landabee
quote:
I guess I could say the same thing to rude parents who choose not to control their kids, then get offended if I give precious little Brytenney Jayne a dirty look when she kicks my chair for the 900th time, after I've asked her to please stop.
Exactly.
How about instead of giving a child (misbehaving or not) a 'dirty look' you take up your problem with the parent, in a kind Christian manner? Giving a kid a dirty look sure won't get the situation rectified...it's not like by scowling at the kid whose undisciplined that that child will all of a sudden have a change of heart about kicking your chair...
Does that not seem obvious to everyone?
I believe the best thing to do is ask the flight attendant to deal with it... They are the "authority" figure on the plane...
John
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RE: Special "Children's" Section on Planes... - 8/20/2008 6:35:24 PM
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clag4christ
Posts: 2631
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: We just moved to the big state of Texas!
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: clag4christ
quote:
ORIGINAL: landabee
quote:
I guess I could say the same thing to rude parents who choose not to control their kids, then get offended if I give precious little Brytenney Jayne a dirty look when she kicks my chair for the 900th time, after I've asked her to please stop.
Exactly.
How about instead of giving a child (misbehaving or not) a 'dirty look' you take up your problem with the parent, in a kind Christian manner? Giving a kid a dirty look sure won't get the situation rectified...it's not like by scowling at the kid whose undisciplined that that child will all of a sudden have a change of heart about kicking your chair...
Does that not seem obvious to everyone?
I believe the best thing to do is ask the flight attendant to deal with it... They are the "authority" figure on the plane...
John
I suppose that would be ok too...
However that is not what the poster stated...he/she thought that giving the stink-eye (passive/aggressive behavior on the part of an 'adult') would rectify the problem with a child...
_____________________________
<-----Jael as Tinkerbell - Halloween 2008
If you don't want people to insult your intelligence; don't make it so obvious that you have none.
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RE: Special "Children's" Section on Planes... - 8/20/2008 6:41:32 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5921
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: Northern Califonria
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
I have preached over 7000 sermons and have never had to send a child out of the sanctuary.
Given your willingness to appease unruly children and you view of children who are not unruly I am not surprised, though since this is simply you personal assertion and cannot be verified it's nothing really but an opinion and not based on anything factual.
quote:
I have yet to have a problem in helping parents with unruly children; on a plane or in Church.
Since this is subject to your view of children, what is or isn't help it ios simply your opinion and nothing really factual...
John
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RE: Special "Children's" Section on Planes... - 8/20/2008 6:43:18 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5921
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: Northern Califonria
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: clag4christ
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: clag4christ
quote:
ORIGINAL: landabee
quote:
I guess I could say the same thing to rude parents who choose not to control their kids, then get offended if I give precious little Brytenney Jayne a dirty look when she kicks my chair for the 900th time, after I've asked her to please stop.
Exactly.
How about instead of giving a child (misbehaving or not) a 'dirty look' you take up your problem with the parent, in a kind Christian manner? Giving a kid a dirty look sure won't get the situation rectified...it's not like by scowling at the kid whose undisciplined that that child will all of a sudden have a change of heart about kicking your chair...
Does that not seem obvious to everyone?
I believe the best thing to do is ask the flight attendant to deal with it... They are the "authority" figure on the plane...
John
I suppose that would be ok too...
However that is not what the poster stated...he/she thought that giving the stink-eye (passive/aggressive behavior on the part of an 'adult') would rectify the problem with a child...
Of course acting like a child isn't the answer... That's why I mentioned having those who are in charge deal with it...
John
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RE: Special "Children's" Section on Planes... - 8/20/2008 6:44:15 PM
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solo_soprano22
Posts: 2431
Joined: 4/27/2005
From: I'm a Southern girl
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quote:
Why, again, should parents be relegated to the back of the plane? How about I start a petition that all 'selfish-ies' who cannot put a wee baby's needs above their own desire for a perfectly peaceful flight in the back of the plane where it's hot and the flight attendants are rude?
I think part of it is how much should people be expected to take reasonably when they're not the ones with the child(ren). People can't even agree on that one. Some think you should just put up with everything....some think anything is too much; some can handle a moderate amount.
_____________________________
For God, For Learning, Forever.
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RE: Special "Children's" Section on Planes... - 8/20/2008 6:56:46 PM
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HighPlainsDrifter
Posts: 1304
Joined: 9/22/2005
From: The Great Sioux Empire
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Generally, I fly somewhere between 50-60,000 miles a year. Unruly, misbehaving, and/or screaming kids aren't high on my list of wants on flights. But, neither are most tourists and heavy shoppers who insist on multiple carry-ons. I tend to be more annoyed with people on flights who can't seem to make it more than 15 minutes without a bathroom trip up the aisle, or a cocktail, than kids. Luckily, quite often I get moved up to first class where things are better.
To be sure, there's definitely a subset of poor parents one runs into. I was unfortunately seated n | | |
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