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RE: Special "Children's" Section on Planes... - 8/17/2008 8:25:03 AM
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buckifn
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If your child can't understand sit down and behave then maybe they should be at home learning that instead of flying somewhere irritating the rest of the population? I am sick and tired of seeing out of control kids doing anything and everything they please with an adult either sitting or standing right by their side and doing nothing to teach the child proper manners, approp. behavior, etc for the environment they are in.
If a child is crying because they aren't feeling well, or they are hungry, that is one thing, and perfectly natural. Cries don't irritate me...but willful rude behavior including hitting, spitting, punching in the stomach and laughing about it while an adult is right there by them...I think such families should be banned from flying...and other public places where this is happening.
As for the breast feeding subject- I can't imagine being offended by something so natural. All of our children were breastfed and it never created a problem...
I do think the airlines are now allowing parent's to carry on breast milk stored in the bottles tho..so maybe that would help?
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RE: Special "Children's" Section on Planes... - 8/17/2008 8:41:50 AM
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duffer1
Posts: 64
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From: snowy frozen wasteland of NNY
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quote:
ORIGINAL: buckifn
I do think the airlines are now allowing parent's to carry on breast milk stored in the bottles tho..so maybe that would help?
TSA regulation
Perhaps?
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RE: Special "Children's" Section on Planes... - 8/17/2008 10:25:57 AM
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clag4christ
Posts: 2890
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From: We just moved to the big state of Texas!
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quote:
We never joined Dad on business- except for once to Florida, but we took a different flight. Maybe you could schedule a separate flight?
No...we would not take a different flight. We fly as a family...and it would be very inconvenient for me to fly with a newborn (which Jael was at the time) and a 23 month old...the suggestion is not really workable...
quote:
I don't understand the breast feeding thing in public and probably never will and on a plane? I am sorry but to me if a lady asked if she could breast feed next to me I would suggest...the bathroom for her.
They might just be milk carriers to you, but they are not that to others. I'd take screaming Jimmy over an exposed breast anytime.
*I* would never ask anyone if I 'should or could' breastfeed. It's a form of nourishment and sustinance for my child. And it's preposterous that I should have to ask permission of anyone if I can provide that for my baby. And I will never and have never fed in a bathroom...if someone has a problem with me feeding my child her breakfast/lunch/dinner in a way that God provided for me to feed her, than that person can really just get over themselves...seriously...how absurd is your assumption? *Sheesh*
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<-----Jael as Tinkerbell - Halloween 2008
If you don't want people to insult your intelligence; don't make it so obvious that you have none.
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RE: Special "Children's" Section on Planes... - 8/17/2008 10:27:54 AM
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clag4christ
Posts: 2890
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quote:
If a child is crying because they aren't feeling well, or they are hungry, that is one thing, and perfectly natural. Cries don't irritate me...but willful rude behavior including hitting, spitting, punching in the stomach and laughing about it while an adult is right there by them...I think such families should be banned from flying...and other public places where this is happening.
Crying doesn't bother me either...and I agree with you that willful rude behavior should not be tolerated...but a separate section of the plane? So that those of us with well behaved children will have to put up with out of control children is just a stupid idea...if we have to suffer you all should have to suffer, don't you think?
< Message edited by clag4christ -- 8/17/2008 10:51:56 AM >
_____________________________
<-----Jael as Tinkerbell - Halloween 2008
If you don't want people to insult your intelligence; don't make it so obvious that you have none.
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RE: Special "Children's" Section on Planes... - 8/17/2008 10:35:58 AM
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Sideways
Posts: 3707
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
What is it with all these children (baby) hating folks out there.
Thanks
RC
Probably the same people who spent 3 hours getting kicked by a 3 year old, or listening to a baby scream? I have a toddler, so I know how it is, but it seriously isn't pleasant for those who are stuck in a very confined space with an unhappy/misbehaving baby or toddler.
Breastfeeding I'm all for. My dad flies every week, and a few weeks ago he had a lovely chat with a lady who was nursing her 4 month old almost the entire time.
I like the family section of restaurants, though. I'm not as worried if my 16 month old acts up a bit (and we are working with him on discipline and training) and I don't really care if someone else's kid acts up. Restaurants don't feel as cramped as airplanes.
Some people don't have perfect children, but we're doing the best we can to train and discipline them, and I'd actually appreciate being in a family section where I'm bothering less people.
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RE: Special "Children's" Section on Planes... - 8/17/2008 10:46:02 AM
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clag4christ
Posts: 2890
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quote:
Some people don't have perfect children, but we're doing the best we can to train and discipline them, and I'd actually appreciate being in a family section where I'm bothering less people.
I don't have perfect children...and we discipline and train them both. If one of my children were throwing a tantrum on a plane (something they'd not likely do, I believe) either Joel or I would take her to the bathroom and deal with the situation in a calm and appropriate manner. If other parents don't do the same then I am not responsible for that...but that doesn't give airlines the right to sequester those of us who don't cause a ruckus with those that couldn't give a rip...
More anoying to me than a crying or fussy baby is the 'business person' who is talking so loudly that the whole plane can hear his/her business, or the teenagers that keep getting up and walking about the cabin...both whom should know better...
< Message edited by clag4christ -- 8/17/2008 10:52:49 AM >
_____________________________
<-----Jael as Tinkerbell - Halloween 2008
If you don't want people to insult your intelligence; don't make it so obvious that you have none.
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RE: Special "Children's" Section on Planes... - 8/17/2008 10:59:56 AM
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Jenny-Fair
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Has anyone realized that this system would put a cap on the number of children allowed on any particular plane? So a plane could have 50 vacant seats but if there are already, say, 15 people in families, another family would not be able to buy a ticket.
Re: Breastfeeding--I can't believe some of the ignorant and selfish attitudes I see. Believe me, even though Nate never liked to be covered up, you'd have seen less breast on me than on the cover of Cosmo while I was nursing him. Besides that, the best time to nurse a baby on a flight is during takeoff and landing, when you can't leave your seat.
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Ziva: It is possible. I do not remember all their names.
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RE: Special "Children's" Section on Planes... - 8/17/2008 11:02:32 AM
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clag4christ
Posts: 2890
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jenny-Fair
Has anyone realized that this system would put a cap on the number of children allowed on any particular plane? So a plane could have 50 vacant seats but if there are already, say, 15 people in families, another family would not be able to buy a ticket.
Re: Breastfeeding--I can't believe some of the ignorant and selfish attitudes I see. Believe me, even though Nate never liked to be covered up, you'd have seen less breast on me than on the cover of Cosmo while I was nursing him. Besides that, the best time to nurse a baby on a flight is during takeoff and landing, when you can't leave your seat.
If they're going to make a 'family' section then they should charge half fare or no fare for children/babies. But they'd not do that...not in today's climate...
I agree about nursing during takeoff/landing...it's much easier then and helps the wee ones adjust to the altitude.
_____________________________
<-----Jael as Tinkerbell - Halloween 2008
If you don't want people to insult your intelligence; don't make it so obvious that you have none.
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RE: Special "Children's" Section on Planes... - 8/17/2008 11:09:23 AM
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Sideways
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quote:
ORIGINAL: clag4christ
I don't have perfect children...and we discipline and train them both. If one of my children were throwing a tantrum on a plane (something they'd not likely do, I believe) either Joel or I would take her to the bathroom and deal with the situation in a calm and appropriate manner. If other parents don't do the same then I am not responsible for that...but that doesn't give airlines the right to sequester those of us who don't cause a ruckus with those that couldn't give a rip...
More anoying to me than a crying or fussy baby is the 'business person' who is talking so loudly that the whole plane can hear his/her business, or the teenagers that keep getting up and walking about the cabin...both whom should know better...
I've taken many, many flights, and I've never had the problems you described with loud businessmen or teenagers who walk to much.
I have been on flights where there was so much disturbance we couldn't get up for pretty much the entire flight because of bad weather. There are plenty of times when even the best parents can't take their kids to the bathroom to discipline them, and even the best parents are going to have kids who make a lot of annoying noise (like some electronic toy when they push the buttons over and over) or babies who will not be consoled.
Again, I don't really see an issue with creating a family section. The odds are you're going to hear other people's children anyways.
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This warranty does not include shark bites, bear attacks and children under five.
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RE: Special "Children's" Section on Planes... - 8/17/2008 11:09:29 AM
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Jenny-Fair
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I guess I was more concerned about people not being able to get tickets that would otherwise be available if they had children. But yeah, price is an issue, especially since babies would normally be free of charge.
I have flown on 6 commercial flights, and never had a problem with kids. On the way back from Guatemala I was seated next to two little boys who had just been adopted. They made my ride much more pleasant, especially since I had been away from my own two little boys for a couple of weeks by then. Also, the ladies with them did not speak any spanish, so I was able to interpret for them. It was lots of fun to see their awe at flying and hear them chatter about their new home en los estados unidos.
Apparently, in all those programs to teach tolerance to business people, they have left a sector of society out.
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Tony: Ziva, did you kill Houdini?
Ziva: It is possible. I do not remember all their names.
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RE: Special "Children's" Section on Planes... - 8/17/2008 11:16:07 AM
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Mrs.Wifey
Posts: 5070
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From: The Gorgeous plains of Colorado
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quote:
Some people don't have perfect children, but we're doing the best we can to train and discipline them, and I'd actually appreciate being in a family section where I'm bothering less people.
So would I. I actually think it's a rather good idea, and some of the airlines we have flown are already seating families together at the back of the plane. We fly frequently(every 2-3 months) so we have a good amount of flight time with an infant under our belt and I have NEVER had a rude, or nasty flight attendant. I have had ones who enforce the rules, and ones who are probably frustrated from other passengers but I have never had someone be nasty because I have a baby with me.
I have also only seen rude and obviously misbehaving children on one or two flights in my entire life(and I used to fly once a month). I think that a lot of people have a bad flight experience with children once, and then they add to the stigma that flying with children is a big pain in the rear.
And really, I think that airlines are doing a lot of things to be accommodating to families. Some of them are installing baby changing tables in the bathrooms, they check our car seats and strollers for free without them counting against our luggage limit, and most of them still board families first(or after first class).
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RE: Special "Children's" Section on Planes... - 8/17/2008 11:18:20 AM
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Mrs.Wifey
Posts: 5070
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From: The Gorgeous plains of Colorado
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quote:
Has anyone realized that this system would put a cap on the number of children allowed on any particular plane? So a plane could have 50 vacant seats but if there are already, say, 15 people in families, another family would not be able to buy a ticket.
There is sort of the same problem already, which is why it's good to call ahead with lap-children. Because of the number of oxygen masks there can only be a certain number of babies who haven't purchased seats.
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RE: Special "Children's" Section on Planes... - 8/17/2008 11:19:32 AM
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Jenny-Fair
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But if you wanted to fly and those seats were taken up, you could still buy a seat for you and your baby.
ETA: two seats, I mean, lol.
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Ziva: It is possible. I do not remember all their names.
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RE: Special "Children's" Section on Planes... - 8/17/2008 11:20:05 AM
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Sideways
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I agree that families should never be denied tickets if seats are available.
But for those of you who enjoy living in the USA, remember we are an unabashed capitalistic society. A huge portion of an airline's money comes from people like my father, a businessman who travels almost every week between Atlanta and Canada. His company pays full fare every time, and most families do not, as they are always on the lookout for deals.
If men like my dad were willing to put their business in an airline that provided them with a baby-free section and pay full fare to do so, then why wouldn't the airline want to make their most lucrative clients happy?
Airlines are a business, they make money in return for a service, and theoretically those who give the best service make the most money. That's reality, fair or not.
_____________________________
This warranty does not include shark bites, bear attacks and children under five.
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RE: Special "Children's" Section on Planes... - 8/17/2008 11:23:24 AM
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clag4christ
Posts: 2890
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quote:
remember we are an unabashed capitalistic society
There's nothing wrong with that...it's a good thing...
quote:
His company pays full fare every time, and most families do not, as they are always on the lookout for deals.
We've traveled for Joel's work and he gets a government airline rate...*I* have to pay full fare. I'm a paying customer and thus should be treated fairly and respectfully...
quote:
theoretically those who give the best service make the most money
For *all* their clients...
_____________________________
<-----Jael as Tinkerbell - Halloween 2008
If you don't want people to insult your intelligence; don't make it so obvious that you have none.
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RE: Special "Children's" Section on Planes... - 8/17/2008 11:27:37 AM
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Sideways
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quote:
ORIGINAL: clag4christ
quote:
theoretically those who give the best service make the most money
For *all* their clients...
And if a majority of their clients are businessman, I don't blame them one bit for considering this idea. If you try to make everyone happy, then you're going to make no one happy.
Of course all clients should be treated respectfully; I just don't see this as being disrespectful.
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RE: Special "Children's" Section on Planes... - 8/17/2008 11:30:31 AM
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lw9
Posts: 1131
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quote:
clag4christ: *I* would never ask anyone if I 'should or could' breastfeed. It's a form of nourishment and sustinance for my child. And it's preposterous that I should have to ask permission of anyone if I can provide that for my baby. And I will never and have never fed in a bathroom...if someone has a problem with me feeding my child her breakfast/lunch/dinner in a way that God provided for me to feed her, than that person can really just get over themselves...seriously...how absurd is your assumption? *Sheesh*
I only have a problem with this when women do not properly cover themselves. Some seem to think it's okay to whip out a boob in public. It's definitely not okay with me.
quote:
buckifn: If your child can't understand sit down and behave then maybe they should be at home learning that instead of flying somewhere irritating the rest of the population? I am sick and tired of seeing out of control kids doing anything and everything they please with an adult either sitting or standing right by their side and doing nothing to teach the child proper manners, approp. behavior, etc for the environment they are in.
Agreed. One too many international flights with out of control, rude children and their parents tends to add insult to injury when you're crammed on a long haul flight.
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RE: Special "Children's" Section on Planes... - 8/17/2008 11:33:01 AM
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Sideways
Posts: 3707
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quote:
ORIGINAL: lw9
I only have a problem with this when women do not properly cover themselves. Some seem to think it's okay to whip out a boob in public. It's definitely not okay with me.
Did you ever think of turning your head for a minute? Cause once the baby is latched on, you really can't see anything unless you are really trying. But, maybe you are.
Lots of people don't like to eat with a blanket over their head. How about you try it your next meal?
And trying to stay covered up while trying to get the baby latched on takes about three or four arms sometimes.
_____________________________
This warranty does not include shark bites, bear attacks and children under five.
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RE: Special "Children's" Section on Planes... - 8/17/2008 11:33:03 AM
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clag4christ
Posts: 2890
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: We just moved to the big state of Texas!
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quote:
ORIGINAL: lw9
quote:
clag4christ: *I* would never ask anyone if I 'should or could' breastfeed. It's a form of nourishment and sustinance for my child. And it's preposterous that I should have to ask permission of anyone if I can provide that for my baby. And I will never and have never fed in a bathroom...if someone has a problem with me feeding my child her breakfast/lunch/dinner in a way that God provided for me to feed her, than that person can really just get over themselves...seriously...how absurd is your assumption? *Sheesh*
I only have a problem with this when women do not properly cover themselves. Some seem to think it's okay to whip out a boob in public. It's definitely not okay with me.
Is it anymore innapropriate to 'whip out' your sandwich for lunch? Should I ask you to wear a blanket over your head when you eat because your loud chewing and chomping is disgusting to me?
_____________________________
<-----Jael as Tinkerbell - Halloween 2008
If you don't want people to insult your intelligence; don't make it so obvious that you have none.
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RE: Special "Children's" Section on Planes... - 8/17/2008 11:40:01 AM
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lw9
Posts: 1131
Joined: 7/22/2005
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quote:
clag4christ: Is it anymore innapropriate to 'whip out' your sandwich for lunch? Should I ask you to wear a blanket over your head when you eat because your loud chewing and chomping is disgusting to me?
Are you kidding? My sandwich isn't a private part of my body and I don't eat loudly. Hey... urinating and defecating is natural, so why don't we all do that in public, too? Come on. I don't want to see your breast or any other woman's breast, period.
What happened to Biblical modesty? We are not to go around exposing parts of ourselves, and guess what... we don't have to! It's a very easy thing to throw a light cloth over the breast area so it's not exposed. I've seen countless women do it and neither they or their babies seemed to be traumatized or even mildly inconvenienced by the experience. My sister gladly covered up out of modesty and respect for those around her.
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RE: Special "Children's" Section on Planes... - 8/17/2008 11:44:42 AM
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clag4christ
Posts: 2890
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: We just moved to the big state of Texas!
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quote:
ORIGINAL: lw9
quote:
clag4christ: Is it anymore innapropriate to 'whip out' your sandwich for lunch? Should I ask you to wear a blanket over your head when you eat because your loud chewing and chomping is disgusting to me?
Are you kidding? My sandwich isn't a private part of my body and I don't eat loudly. Hey... urinating and defecating is natural, so why don't we all do that in public, too? Come on. I don't want to see your breast or any other woman's breast, period.
What happened to Biblical modesty? We are not to go around exposing parts of ourselves, and guess what... we don't have to! It's a very easy thing to throw a light cloth over the breast area so it's not exposed. I've seen countless women do it and they didn't seem to be traumatized or even mildly inconvenienced by the experience.
Going to the bathroom and breastfeeding my child are not on the same terms. If you don't want to see me feeding my baby then turn your head discreetly so that I can have my baby latch on. And 'throwing a blanket' over my child's head after she's latched is easy-peasy...having that blanket on her head while I'm trying to see where she is and get her on to eat is NOT easy...
Feeding my child is not about modesty it's about sustinance...
_____________________________
<-----Jael as Tinkerbell - Halloween 2008
If you don't want people to insult your intelligence; don't make it so obvious that you have none.
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