RE: PDL is a GREAT tool for educating Novice Christians!
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RE: PDL is a GREAT tool for educating Novice Christians! - 10/21/2008 11:46:01 AM
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JimboFletch
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quote:
Regarding truth as it pertains to sound doctrine, God’s Word disagrees with your statement
NMC, if the Bible contains all truth, show me where Trigonometry is explained, unless you think it is in error and is a false doctrine.
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RE: PDL is a GREAT tool for educating Novice Christians! - 10/21/2008 11:58:47 AM
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notmycity
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:
Regarding truth as it pertains to sound doctrine, God’s Word disagrees with your statement
NMC, if the Bible contains all truth, show me where Trigonometry is explained, unless you think it is in error and is a false doctrine.
Please reread my last post for an answer....
_____________________________
<><Topher
"I am a companion of all them that fear thee, and of them that keep thy precepts." Psalm 119:63
and..
"For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come." Heb 13:14 = "notmycity"
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RE: PDL is a GREAT tool for educating Novice Christians! - 10/21/2008 12:03:33 PM
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JimboFletch
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NMC, a doctrine is a particular principle, position, or policy taught or advocated. It is not confined to biblical laws, standards, or principles. And Truth is truth, however that God chooses to reveal it.
You either don't understand that or you put on a pious show to conceal it.
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RE: PDL is a GREAT tool for educating Novice Christians! - 10/21/2008 12:20:14 PM
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notmycity
Posts: 1165
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
NMC, a doctrine is a particular principle, position, or policy taught or advocated. It is not confined to biblical laws, standards, or principles. And Truth is truth, however that God chooses to reveal it.
You either don't understand that or you put on a pious show to conceal it.
Does 2 Timothy 3:16-17 speak of math?
_____________________________
<><Topher
"I am a companion of all them that fear thee, and of them that keep thy precepts." Psalm 119:63
and..
"For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come." Heb 13:14 = "notmycity"
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RE: PDL is a GREAT tool for educating Novice Christians! - 10/21/2008 6:31:35 PM
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prophet
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quote:
ORIGINAL: prophet
quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:
ORIGINAL: prophet
i am blaming RW for writing a book using questionable paraphrased versions, which coupled with lazy pastors annd young sheep spells disastor....how old are you?
i am old enough to know the deception PDL brings into the life of young believers.
I'm 56 and English is my first language, I've actually read all of PDL (not just reviews or spot reading) and there is no deception in PDL.
Now you.
Sorry was my post directed at you?
Besides that post is over two months old and......
You sir, are becoming a pest......
quote:
I noticed it was gone too. It was a source of humor for me each morning.
http://forums.christianity.com/Thread_gone/m_3902872/mpage_1/tm.htm#3905218
_____________________________
Create in me a Clean Heart, O Lord.
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RE: PDL is a GREAT tool for educating Novice Christians! - 10/22/2008 9:40:52 AM
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JimboFletch
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:
ORIGINAL: prophet
quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:
ORIGINAL: prophet
i am blaming RW for writing a book using questionable paraphrased versions, which coupled with lazy pastors annd young sheep spells disastor....how old are you?
i am old enough to know the deception PDL brings into the life of young believers.
I'm 56 and English is my first language, I've actually read all of PDL (not just reviews or spot reading) and there is no deception in PDL.
Now you.
Sorry was my post directed at you?
Besides that post is over two months old and......
You sir, are becoming a pest......
Why are you offended that, on a public forum, I took umbrage with a reply to a comment you made in a thread in which I've participated in since the very first page - no, not just the first page but as the very first to answer????????
If you wish not to have anyone respond to your posts, you could start a blog without permitting responses. Or keep a journal. But any remark on a forum, whether foolish or erudite, is open to challenge.
Dearest prophet, here is my response to yours. Linking to closed threads doesn't further this one.
Again, this is a forum, not a restricted blog.
Thank you and have a nice day,
JF
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RE: PDL Model Creates False Converts - 10/22/2008 6:28:07 PM
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RJR_fan
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quote:
the seeker-sensitive / purpose-driven model was creating false converts
'It's not about you." The first four words of PDL suggest that the PDL convert is far more likely to get somewhere with his spiritual life than the "crusade evangelism" convert.
Since Charles Finney, conversion has been re-defined as "going forward" in response to a skilled orator's "invitation," in order to see to the welfare of that axle of the universe, one's own soul.
_____________________________
Blogging my way through the Turkish New Testament
Meet my beloved mentor, RJR
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RE: PDL Model Creates False Converts - 10/23/2008 4:37:31 AM
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notmycity
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quote:
ORIGINAL: RJR_fan
quote:
the seeker-sensitive / purpose-driven model was creating false converts
'It's not about you." The first four words of PDL suggest that the PDL convert is far more likely to get somewhere with his spiritual life than the "crusade evangelism" convert.
Warren later contradicts those four words when the emphasis is placed on personality pertaining to how one worships God.
_____________________________
<><Topher
"I am a companion of all them that fear thee, and of them that keep thy precepts." Psalm 119:63
and..
"For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come." Heb 13:14 = "notmycity"
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RE: PDL Model Creates False Converts - 10/23/2008 7:19:18 AM
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RJR_fan
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quote:
Warren later contradicts those four words when the emphasis is placed on personality pertaining to how one worships God.
But he got off to a good start by placing our spiritual health in its proper context, the larger purposes of God. We are called to work. We are saved to serve.
Crusade 'evangelism', OTOH, is all about letting Jesus do something for you, O thou center of the universe, o thou who deserved to have Jesus die for your convenience!
_____________________________
Blogging my way through the Turkish New Testament
Meet my beloved mentor, RJR
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RE: PDL Model Creates False Converts - 10/23/2008 10:13:11 AM
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buckifn
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quote:
But he got off to a good start by placing our spiritual health in its proper context, the larger purposes of God. We are called to work. We are saved to serve
Didn't Lucifer get off to a good start too?
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RE: PDL Model Creates False Converts - 10/23/2008 10:17:29 AM
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JimboFletch
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quote:
ORIGINAL: buckifn
quote:
But he got off to a good start by placing our spiritual health in its proper context, the larger purposes of God. We are called to work. We are saved to serve
Didn't Lucifer get off to a good start too?
Didn't Jesus get off to a good start too?
Didn't Paul get off to a good start too?
How silly can we get without proving a thing?
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RE: PDL Model Creates False Converts - 10/23/2008 10:38:54 AM
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notmycity
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quote:
ORIGINAL: buckifn
quote:
But he got off to a good start by placing our spiritual health in its proper context, the larger purposes of God. We are called to work. We are saved to serve
Didn't Lucifer get off to a good start too?
Excellent point. Later we read how Lucifer (later known as the devil) abused Scripture in an attempt to deceive Christ (Matt 4:6, Luke 4:11).
_____________________________
<><Topher
"I am a companion of all them that fear thee, and of them that keep thy precepts." Psalm 119:63
and..
"For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come." Heb 13:14 = "notmycity"
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RE: PDL Model Creates False Converts - 10/23/2008 10:48:06 AM
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JimboFletch
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quote:
ORIGINAL: notmycity
Excellent point. Later we read how Lucifer (later known as the devil) abused Scripture in an attempt to deceive Christ (Matt 4:6, Luke 4:11).
And later, Jesus and Paul quoted scripture. Go figure.
NMC, reviling God's annointed is a dangerous thing to do. Even when David had been annointed to replace Saul, he dared not touch him nor permit anyone else to because it was God's place to do so.
Jesus also made a statement along those lines to unlearned revilers, "Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us." (see Luke 9) To revile one that is supporting the Kingdom is to revile Jesus, another place I'd be careful to avoid.
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RE: PDL Model Creates False Converts - 10/23/2008 11:20:47 AM
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notmycity
Posts: 1165
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
And later, Jesus and Paul quoted scripture. Go figure.
NMC, reviling God's annointed is a dangerous thing to do. Even when David had been annointed to replace Saul, he dared not touch him nor permit anyone else to because it was God's place to do so.
Jesus also made a statement along those lines to unlearned revilers, "Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us." (see Luke 9) To revile one that is supporting the Kingdom is to revile Jesus, another place I'd be careful to avoid.
Warren is not “God’s [anointed]”. His teachings twist Scripture to fit his man-centered doctrines. This makes him a false teacher, which makes him against Christ.
PDL is another gospel:
Gal 1:8-10
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
10 FOR DO I NOW PERSUADE MEN, OR GOD? OR DO I SEEK TO PLEASE MEN? FOR IF I YET PLEASED MEN, I SHOULD NOT BE THE SERVANT OF CHRIST.
PDL twists Scripture:
2 Pet 3:14-16
14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.
15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
16 AS ALSO IN ALL HIS EPISTLES, SPEAKING IN THEM OF THESE THINGS; IN WHICH ARE SOME THINGS HARD TO BE UNDERSTOOD, WHICH THEY THAT ARE UNLEARNED AND UNSTABLE WREST, AS THEY DO ALSO THE OTHER SCRIPTURES, UNTO THEIR OWN DESTRUCTION.
Again, one only needs focus on the emphasis of PDL on personality and pop-psychology to see that the teachings are carnal and not Scriptural.
_____________________________
<><Topher
"I am a companion of all them that fear thee, and of them that keep thy precepts." Psalm 119:63
and..
"For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come." Heb 13:14 = "notmycity"
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RE: PDL Model Creates False Converts - 10/23/2008 11:27:32 AM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 6429
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quote:
ORIGINAL: notmycity
Warren is not “God’s [anointed]”. His teachings twist Scripture to fit his man-centered doctrines. This makes him a false teacher, which makes him against Christ.
NMC, according to Bible scholars that I respect, you are completely wrong. And every example you have thus far given appears to be twisted reviling of what he has written.
And I'd wouldn't want to be in your place reviling someone doing God's work.
I don't even have to speculate that Rick Warren has reached far more people for the Kingdom than you ever have or ever will. (That's the source of a lot of hate leveled at Warren by some people - not meaning to say you are, but many do.)
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RE: PDL Model Creates False Converts - 10/23/2008 11:51:29 AM
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notmycity
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
NMC, according to Bible scholars that I respect, you are completely wrong....
Question: Does Scripture ever speak of “Bible scholars”? If so, please show me where.
I’ll take some time off-topic to see if you can show me.
Thank you.
_____________________________
<><Topher
"I am a companion of all them that fear thee, and of them that keep thy precepts." Psalm 119:63
and..
"For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come." Heb 13:14 = "notmycity"
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RE: PDL Model Creates False Converts - 10/23/2008 11:55:19 AM
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1love1God1way
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quote:
ORIGINAL: notmycity
quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
NMC, according to Bible scholars that I respect, you are completely wrong....
Question: Does Scripture ever speak of “Bible scholars”? If so, please show me where.
I’ll take some time off-topic to see if you can show me.
Thank you.
But we should listen to how YOU interpret Scripture?
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love.ben
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RE: PDL Model Creates False Converts - 10/23/2008 12:02:26 PM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 6429
Joined: 4/11/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: notmycity
quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
NMC, according to Bible scholars that I respect, you are completely wrong....
Question: Does Scripture ever speak of “Bible scholars”? If so, please show me where.
I’ll take some time off-topic to see if you can show me.
Thank you.
Revile me all you want, but it only exposes what you are.
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
-2 Timothy 2:15
That sir is what a Bible scholar is. Want another? Here's one from Paul:
I am verily a man which am a Jew, born in Tarsus, a city in Cilicia, yet brought up in this city at the feet of Gamaliel, and taught according to the perfect manner of the law of the fathers, and was zealous toward God, as ye all are this day.
-Acts 22:3
That is another example of what a Bible scholar is.
You revile Bible study, Rick Warren, and me all you want, sir, but I'm not an ignorant fool nor a reprobate. I am a blood-bought, redeemed, Holy Spirit indwelled joint-heir with God the Son, Jesus Christ.
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RE: PDL Model Creates False Converts - 10/23/2008 12:05:55 PM
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JimboFletch
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Another Bible scholar from scripture that God used for the Kingdom:
Then stood there up one in the council, a Pharisee, named Gamaliel, a doctor of the law, had in reputation among all the people, and commanded to put the apostles forth a little space...
...But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God.
-Acts 5:34& 38
While you continue reviling me and Rick Warren and those that are scholars of Holy Scripture, please note what THAT Bible scholar warned revilers of the servants of Jesus.
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RE: PDL Model Creates False Converts - 10/23/2008 1:36:26 PM
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notmycity
Posts: 1165
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Please consider Paul’s approach here:
1 Tim 1:18-20
18 This charge I commit unto thee, son Timothy, according to the prophecies which went before on thee, that thou by them mightest war a good warfare;
19 Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck:
20 Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.
Believers are also instructed here:
Eph 5:6-11
6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
7 Be not ye therefore partakers with them.
8 For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:
9 (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth;)
10 Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord.
11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.
Here are some more vain words via PDL: "God is always more interested in why we do something than in what we do".
More blasphemy via PDL.
God already knows the two sources of “why” we do things. He says so in His Word:
Gal 5:16-25
16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
_____________________________
<><Topher
"I am a companion of all them that fear thee, and of them that keep thy precepts." Psalm 119:63
and..
"For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come." Heb 13:14 = "notmycity"
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RE: PDL Model Creates False Converts - 10/23/2008 1:57:13 PM
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GodsMusic
Posts: 237
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
Didn't Jesus get off to a good start too?
Didn't Paul get off to a good start too?
How silly can we get without proving a thing?
quote:
How reckess we can post, just to prove our point.
Lest we forget, Christ is Savior, Lord and King.
< Message edited by GodsMusic -- 10/23/2008 2:06:07 PM >
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RE: PDL is a GREAT tool for educating Novice Christians! - 10/23/2008 2:32:29 PM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 6429
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GodsMusic, let's have your viewpoints on PDL, if you have any.
Or is your specialty popping in and making insults without substance or relevance and, then, running off to see what happens. That's very juvenile, very sophomoric.
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RE: PDL is a GREAT tool for educating Novice Christians! - 10/23/2008 2:45:27 PM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 6429
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: notmycity
Here are some more vain words via PDL: "God is always more interested in why we do something than in what we do".
More blasphemy via PDL.
God already knows the two sources of “why” we do things. He says so in His Word:
NMC, are you trying to say that the "why" believers do ministry in sharing the Gospel, visiting the sick and in prison, taking care of widows and orphans, and helping the elderly is the same "why" as the lost that are involved with Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like?
If you really believe that, we may need to talk about the basics of what it means to be born again...
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RE: PDL is a GREAT tool for educating Novice Christians! - 10/23/2008 2:47:48 PM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 6429
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:
ORIGINAL: notmycity
quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
NMC, according to Bible scholars that I respect, you are completely wrong....
Question: Does Scripture ever speak of “Bible scholars”? If so, please show me where.
I’ll take some time off-topic to see if you can show me.
Thank you.
Revile me all you want, but it only exposes what you are.
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
-2 Timothy 2:15
That sir is what a Bible scholar is. Want another? Here's one from Paul:
I am verily a man which am a Jew, born in Tarsus, a city in Cilicia, yet brought up in this city at the feet of Gamaliel, and taught according to the perfect manner of the law of the fathers, and was zealous toward God, as ye all are this day.
-Acts 22:3
That is another example of what a Bible scholar is.
You revile Bible study, Rick Warren, and me all you want, sir, but I'm not an ignorant fool nor a reprobate. I am a blood-bought, redeemed, Holy Spirit indwelled joint-heir with God the Son, Jesus Christ.
NMC, I provided scripture and you ignored it. Is that your way of saying, "AMEN"?
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RE: PDL is a GREAT tool for educating Novice Christians! - 10/23/2008 2:48:56 PM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 6429
Joined: 4/11/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
Another Bible scholar from scripture that God used for the Kingdom:
Then stood there up one in the council, a Pharisee, named Gamaliel, a doctor of the law, had in reputation among all the people, and commanded to put the apostles forth a little space...
...But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God.
-Acts 5:34& 38
While you continue reviling me and Rick Warren and those that are scholars of Holy Scripture, please note what THAT Bible scholar warned revilers of the servants of Jesus.
Comment, question, did I strike a chord?
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