Are Christians supposed to view ourselves... (Full Version)

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deliveredarling -> Are Christians supposed to view ourselves... (8/13/2008 7:00:13 PM)

As wretched, horrible beings?

I question this because I have heard several people refer to themselves in such degrading terms.

Didn't we leave that behind when we became new creatures in Christ?

He doesn't view us this way does He?



SonInMe1 -> RE: Are Christians supposed to view ourselves... (8/13/2008 8:57:36 PM)

Being humble.

I guess its truly meekness...humble to self, bold in Christ.

quote:

I question this because I have heard several people refer to themselves in such degrading terms.


Its called...honesty. Our standard is...Jesus Christ, the perfect man. We all fall short.

With all of this criticism, how do we have confidence? By putting it where it should be...in Christ, not of ourselves.

Through Christ all things are possible...not positive thinking...not self ability....in Christ.

We all are works in progress, running..and finishing...the race keeping our eyes on the prize and that's not heaven...its Jesus Christ, the love we have for Him and the love we have for others.



deliveredarling -> RE: Are Christians supposed to view ourselves... (8/13/2008 9:43:42 PM)

By no means am I suggesting that we are all that.

I do not see in scripture, where we are to view ourselves as worthless, wretched, good for nothing human beings.

I don't see where we are to constantly tell ourselves how awful we are.

I do see where He has changed us.

It's not about trying to be something we are not, but who He changed us into,
Does that make sense?

Not at all, do I mean that we are to "forget" that we are sinners, more as a reminder that He now views us as saints.



solarflare -> RE: Are Christians supposed to view ourselves... (8/13/2008 10:16:16 PM)

quote:

As wretched, horrible beings?


No.

"Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new one has come! All this from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men's sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation."
II Cor. 5: 17-19

If we sin, we acknowledge it and ask forgiveness. Repentance is the turning from sin.....going the opposite way if you will. We are no longer wretched, horrible beings and it is not correct to view yourself that way.

"Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me (you, me, all believers) free from the law of sin and death."
Romans 8:1



makarizo -> RE: Are Christians supposed to view ourselves... (8/13/2008 10:24:31 PM)

As a born again, active believer, I have come to hate sin, I detest it.

when I react in an 'inappropriate' way, or find myself somehow involved in gossip, or showing favoritism, or non pure opinions about something.

maybe just awareness of it, catching myself, maybe Holy Ghost conviction, when it happens, I am humbled, and run to Jesus to unload.

and am reminded of what I am apart from Christ. the potential is there, and I must stay tightly connected to the Vine.

there is nothing good about me apart from the work that Christ is doing in me.

rom 7



ladyichigo -> RE: Are Christians supposed to view ourselves... (8/13/2008 10:28:16 PM)

Just until recently, I viewed myself as "wretched, and worthless". I've been bought with the blood of Christ and had been made a new creation for years now, BUT I was still thinking with my old mind and seeing myself in the old image. I didn't realize how much guilt, how much junk I had been holding on to for all these years within that mindset. This view of myself made me feel like I was a burden to those around me, that I was worthless, and whatever I did was never going to amount to anything. I shared this with my husband one day, and he reminded me what I am in Christ. I am a new creation. I am no longer a slave to sin. And I thought about it for a moment, and I realized....Yes, I am. I am a new creation in Christ. I am God's adoptive child! I belong to His family. I am not a burden, but a blessing. I feel so free to be in Christ.

Another forum member posted one time, (I forgot who it was!!) on a different topic that, as a new creation, we should be using our new minds that the Lord gave us when we accepted Christ. A lot of Christians are still thinking with their old minds. Through Christ, we are no longer worthless and wretched. Through Christ we are His ambassadors (Jesus Christ REPRESENT!! wOOt!) and we are God's adoptive children. That is how we Christians should view ourselves. How else are we to go and spread His Word if we view ourselves as "wretched and worthless"? "Yeah, I'm God's child now, follower of Jesus Christ, but I'm wretched and worthless." What kind of testimony is that?

To view ourselves in that way and to tell ourselves how horrible we are doesn't glorify our God. I'm sure that would actually hurt Him very much that we see ourselves like that. As a parent I would definitely be very, deeply, hurt if my child said that about themselves. I wouldn't want them to be boastful and full of arrogance....no I don't think that's what viewing ourselves as God's ambassadors is about. Yes we are to be humble and meek as we are His servants, but not wretched, and not worthless.



Focusing -> RE: Are Christians supposed to view ourselves... (8/13/2008 10:46:15 PM)

No, I don't believe God sees us as wretched or horrible. I believe he sees us as clay ... and He is the Potter. Yes, we are going to mess us, become forms that are "not quite right" and all He needs to do is work on us a little more to get us the way He wants us to be. He is shaping us to be used for His purposes.

And yes, we are Ambassadors of Christ! We represent Him to the world. How awesome is that? What a wonderful responsibility He has given us, and He is right there to give us all the tools and backup we need. [:D]



deliveredarling -> RE: Are Christians supposed to view ourselves... (8/14/2008 6:29:38 AM)

quote:

ow else are we to go and spread His Word if we view ourselves as "wretched and worthless"? "Yeah, I'm God's child now, follower of Jesus Christ, but I'm wretched and worthless." What kind of testimony is that?

To view ourselves in that way and to tell ourselves how horrible we are doesn't glorify our God. I'm sure that would actually hurt Him very much that we see ourselves like that.


I thought the same thing.

Yet, I hear people on thi forum say that we are not speaking the truth if we view ourselves in this way.

It's almost as if it's a false humility to go around berating ourselves, even after we have been washed clean.

I have to wonder how glorifying it is to God, if are constantly reminding ourselves of our badness. Not that we forget that our hearts are deceitful, but more focusing on how He has saved us from ourselves.



Walker311 -> RE: Are Christians supposed to view ourselves... (8/14/2008 7:01:01 AM)

We have such great value to God that He sent His son to die for us.

However, I am still a mess! To some extent, I must view myself like this or I will raise myself higher than I am and not see the need of a savior.

There must be balance and honesty regardless of what state we find ourselves in.

If I believe that I am being good and start patting myself on the back, it usually doesn't take long to realize how pitiful I am.



deliveredarling -> RE: Are Christians supposed to view ourselves... (8/14/2008 7:06:07 AM)

quote:


If I believe that I am being good and start patting myself on the back, it usually doesn't take long to realize how pitiful I am.


I'm not thinking about us patting ourselves on the back or being prideful.

Allowing ourselves to look at ourselves and each other through Christ' eyes.

Seeing ourselves as His creation having been washed by His blood when we choose Him and turned from the world.



makarizo -> RE: Are Christians supposed to view ourselves... (8/14/2008 7:32:10 AM)

Rom 7:21 I find then the principle that evil is present in me, the one who wants to do good.

This acknowledgment is important.

In Christ - that is what I am now.... a child of God, a citizen of the kingdom, more than a conqueror, forgiven and cleansed...... that is my identity.
and it starts with the acknowledgment that there is nothing good in me, I need Christ.

so am I supposed to view myself as a wretched being......... only if it is true.



SonInMe1 -> RE: Are Christians supposed to view ourselves... (8/14/2008 7:45:47 AM)

It is a delicate and difficult balance between confidence and humility...esspecially for us, the ones with ego problms...too much ego that is.

To consider myself in great need of our Savior is a huge step up for me. That is....for me. When I get too much....I don't know how to say it other than...praising me....that is when I fall. When I think other people are just idiots...its when I mess up.

No, for me to think I am anything but in great need of Jesus would be foolishness for me. To think I can accomplish...anything....and I mean anything...outside of Christ and what He does for me....is a terrible conciet.

I am not saying we should walk around going woah is me. I am not saying we should walk around with dour faces or being depressed.

I am saying our confidence is in God, not in ourselves...in any....any...circumstance.



Covaan_Meshuga -> RE: Are Christians supposed to view ourselves... (8/14/2008 7:58:40 AM)

quote:

Amazing grace, How sweet the sound That saved a wretch like me . . . .


quote:

Alas and did my Savior bleed, And did my Sovereign die; Would He devote that sacred head For such a worm as I? At the cross . . . .


Well, I was certainly a wretched worm, but in spite of me He gave His life. I remember a preacher telling a group of young people, "You're nothing. You think you are special, but you're nothing." I really struggled with that being said to a group of young persons who already think they are less than nothing, many of whom think they are not "worthy enough" for G-d.

I also have a BIG struggle with religions that try to make little gods of us, telling us we can command G-d, and He has to respond according to our wishes -- Big Genie in the Sky, Big Sugar Daddy in the Clouds.

Somehow, we have to recognize that the truth is somewhere in between these. We deserve nothing because we are nothing, yet He has supplied all believers with His grace, with His mercy, with His kingdom, with His salvation. Sure, we remain nothing in ourselves, but His gifts, His mercy shines out, and when G-d looks at us, He sees us through what His Son has given us.

Some years ago, the stores were selling clear plastic boxes of all sizes as gift boxes. They were cheap, but when looking at them, one could easily imagine what one might drop inside to give to another. I still have some of those.

I could take one of those little boxes and put ribbons and doodads on it, and it would look nice sitting on some shelf or desk, but even with the bangles and bows, it would still only be worth about $1. We are a lot like those boxes. We dress ourselves up and make ourselves presentable, but we aren't worth all that much.

But take one of those little boxes, drop some pretty, colorful tinsel cuttings in it, and add a gift. Shake it up, dress it up, and give it away. Suddenly, the box becomes a thing of value -- because of what's inside.

For believers, it's what's inside that gives us all the value we have.



deliveredarling -> RE: Are Christians supposed to view ourselves... (8/14/2008 8:00:11 AM)

quote:

It is a delicate and difficult balance between confidence and humility...esspecially for us, the ones with ego problms...too much ego that is.


I agree with this.

I guess what I'm getting at is not focusing on who we were but who Christ has made us to be.

quote:

Rom 7:21 I find then the principle that evil is present in me, the one who wants to do good.

This acknowledgment is important.


Yes, we have to know we need a Saviour before we will accept a Savior.

Wouldn't then the steps begin with a recognition of what we are, repentance and finally acceptance of Christ?

Must we continue to acknowledge what we were as if we are still that dead person? It just seems to me that berating one's self after having been washed is like a lack of faith--that we don't believe that Christ made us new creatures when we were born again.



URForgiven -> RE: Are Christians supposed to view ourselves... (8/14/2008 8:50:32 AM)

We were all worms before Christ made us into butterflies, and a worm is all we would ever be, in and of ourselves. But, we are washed clean by Jesus Christ...

1 Corinthians 6:11
"And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God."

What we once were, we are no more. We are a new creation in Christ...

2 Corinthians 5:17
"Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come!"

This does not mean we will not sometimes act like the worm we were, but that will never change the reality of how God sees us in His Son. Because God has made us perfect in His sight, not by anything we have done, but by what Jesus Christ has done...

Hebrews 10:14
"because by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy."

Good news indeed. [:D]

Peace



deliveredarling -> RE: Are Christians supposed to view ourselves... (8/14/2008 9:22:31 AM)

Thank you URF. You nailed my thoughts exactly!



Liveloved -> RE: Are Christians supposed to view ourselves... (8/14/2008 9:30:33 AM)

quote:

Must we continue to acknowledge what we were as if we are still that dead person? It just seems to me that berating one's self after having been washed is like a lack of faith--that we don't believe that Christ made us new creatures when we were born again.


Covaan said it very well. It is not a lamenting or berating of ourselves that is needful. It is seeing ourselves rightly (Romans 12:3, Phil 2:3-4,2Cor 10:12-13) and being truthful about who we are. And it is ONLY as we do this that we see our need for Jesus.

As I fellowship with Him, I see Jesus but He also shows me 'me'. I can be discouraged and depressed about my lack, my falling short, or my sin that He continues to reveal to me. OR I can say 'thank You, praise You, Jesus, for being my ALL and accomplishing in me, with me and for me ALL that You have promised!' Therein lies the difference. Seeing Him and seeing me leads to worship, great thankfulness and wonderful fellowship with the Beloved.

This is what walking in the light is all about. The light exposes. If we don't see Jesus and ourselves rightly, we are not in the light. [:)]


And BTW, dead people don't do what I've just described in my post. Dead people stay in darkness because they won't be truthful about who they really are. (John 3:19-21)



deliveredarling -> RE: Are Christians supposed to view ourselves... (8/14/2008 9:44:56 AM)

quote:


This is what walking in the light is all about. The light exposes. If we don't see Jesus and ourselves rightly, we are not in the light.


I'm sorry but I don't get this.

Jesus no longer sees us they way we see us. We are still sinners, yet He died fir that sin, to remember it no more.

We make mistakes and the HS convicts us. As we grow in Him, He is molding us, not holding our faults against us.

The light exposes the darkness, yes, His love for us is the light that He shines on us, despite our fallen, human nature.



growingseed -> RE: Are Christians supposed to view ourselves... (8/14/2008 10:33:48 AM)

There is a difference between looking at ourselves through the Lords mirror of truth, and a self portrait.



deliveredarling -> RE: Are Christians supposed to view ourselves... (8/14/2008 11:11:44 AM)

quote:

There is a difference between looking at ourselves through the Lords mirror of truth, and a self portrait.


Will you expand on this thought please?[:)]



rcjames -> RE: Are Christians supposed to view ourselves... (8/14/2008 12:02:12 PM)

Well the Bible says that without Christ we are;

(Isa 64:6) But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

But with Christ we are;

(1Pe 2:9) But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

So make of that what you will.

Thanks
RC



deliveredarling -> RE: Are Christians supposed to view ourselves... (8/14/2008 12:27:24 PM)

am I mistaken in thinking that my word's are lining up with scripture and they aren't?



growingseed -> RE: Are Christians supposed to view ourselves... (8/14/2008 1:39:11 PM)

The Lord's mirror reflects really what we are in being ourselves in the flesh. The more you get closer to righteousness the more you realize how much of the old nature is truly in control. To change from old to new as Jesus teaches is a growing process. A seed will grow and as it grows it will change it's form into its new transformation. A child will grow from being dependent, to independent. While looking in the mirror of truth you will not be able to argue the fact that we need to change from who we are to who he is.

The self portrait is the one who says he can see and yet is blind to the truth.



URForgiven -> RE: Are Christians supposed to view ourselves... (8/14/2008 2:24:32 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Liveloved

As I fellowship with Him, I see Jesus but He also shows me 'me'. I can be discouraged and depressed about my lack, my falling short, or my sin that He continues to reveal to me. OR I can say 'thank You, praise You, Jesus, for being my ALL and accomplishing in me, with me and for me ALL that You have promised!' Therein lies the difference. Seeing Him and seeing me leads to worship, great thankfulness and wonderful fellowship with the Beloved.


Yes LL, Jesus does show you "you". But the you He shows you is the you He sees. And the you He sees is perfect and righteous and sanctified and justified etc. He wants you to see the beautiful butterfly He has already made you, so that you will be what He sees and not what you see.

Christians are those who have already been made aware of their wretchedness, it is our new nature that we need to be made aware of. It is the enemy who keeps us focused on the old man. Jesus does not show us our sins, as you have fought so hard to explain in another thread, he covers them.

The Holy Spirit convicts the unsaved of their sin. And their sin is the sin of unbelief...

John 16:8-9
"And when He comes, He will convict and convince the world and bring demonstration to it about sin and about righteousness (uprightness of heart and right standing with God) and about judgment: About sin, because they do not believe in Me [trust in, rely on, and adhere to Me]"

The sin of the world is unbelief.

quote:

This is what walking in the light is all about. The light exposes. [:)]


I know this is near and dear to you, so I tread lightly here. Christians are those who have come into the light. Walking in the light is not something that we, as Christians, do or do not do. We are always in the light. Walking in the light is our life, it is our reality. And it is our constant and eternal reality. It is so because Jesus Christ IS the light, and we are in Christ.

John 8:12
Then Jesus again spoke to them, saying, "I am the Light of the world; he who follows Me will not walk in the darkness, but will have the Light of life."

What Jesus shows us about ourselves, as we grow ever closer in our relationship with Him, is all we already have in Him. He exhorts us to be who we now are as Children of God. He encourages us to grasp all that He has given us in Himself. He pleads with us to rest in Him, and to allow Him to be what only He can be, in our lives, so that we can be all that He created us to be.

Jesus never brings up our sins. Why? Because He no longer sees them. Our sins have been removed...as far as the east is from the west. This is so because of the work of Christ, and not because of anything we do or do not do. Did God see our sins? Absolutely. And He placed every single one of them on Jesus Christ, and Christ became sin...for us. Because of Christs perfect sacrifice, there is no longer any other sacrifice we can perform for our sins. Nor is there any need for it.

We are not saved by the death of Christ, we are saved by His life...

Romans 5:10
"For if, when we were God's enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life!"

Salvation is the receiving of life, and the life that saves is in Christ. Through our acceptance of Christ we receive what His forgiveness alone could not do, we receive the restoration of that life which had been lost in Adam. The Spirit of God, once again in man, so that we can now be what we were created to be...the visible image of the invisible God.

And that, is what causes us to praise Him, and worship Him, with great thankfulness and eternal gratitude.

Peace



pstrdebi -> RE: Are Christians supposed to view ourselves... (8/14/2008 2:43:14 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: deliveredarling

As wretched, horrible beings?

I question this because I have heard several people refer to themselves in such degrading terms.

Didn't we leave that behind when we became new creatures in Christ?

He doesn't view us this way does He?


NO!!! Absolutely not!

I don't have my Bible next to me (a GASP erupts from the audience!!!) However, we are made in the image of God Almighty!... and He is NOT wretched, is He. We are His righteousness! We are the salt of the earth... we are heirs to the throne of grace... we are... we are... we are!

I could go on and on about what God calls us... and not once does He tell us we are wretched and horrible.

[:)]



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