maturity (Full Version)

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P31W -> maturity (8/13/2008 2:26:11 PM)

Ok so as to not go off on a rabbit trail in another thead.

What is "Christian maturity" and can one be mature in one area of their Christian walk and a babe in another?



mvic -> RE: maturity (8/13/2008 2:39:54 PM)

At the risk of de-railing this thread before it starts: how do you distinguish Christian maturity from Christian bigotry.

I've known many "mature" Christians who in reality are only interested in having everyone follow their dogmas.



WesP -> RE: maturity (8/13/2008 2:48:34 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mvic

At the risk of de-railing this thread before it starts: how do you distinguish Christian maturity from Christian bigotry.

I've known many "mature" Christians who in reality are only interested in having everyone follow their dogmas.


A mature Christian only demands adherence to salvic doctrine, but even that is presented in love. As for a list of what is salvic, that would be another thread in itself.

Regarding the OP, there are certainly Christians who have matured more in some areas than others. We all grow in our walks at different rates from each other as well. Always seek knowledge from more mature Christians in the area you need knowledge of, and always teach less mature Christians from the knowledge base in which you are more versed.



Hayseed -> RE: maturity (8/13/2008 2:57:53 PM)

Well, since this thread popped up after I posted this, I'll copy and paste it here (thanks P31, we're doing some great reasoning here):


Many times I wouldn't say that I'm "more mature" than those that are "offended" by things. In many cases they're actually more mature than me and should act it. Many people choose ignorance and immaturity because it gives them power without the responsibility and accountability.

Bottom line: They need to be called on the carpet by being confronted with the truth and held accountable to it.



solarflare -> RE: maturity (8/13/2008 3:06:41 PM)

quote:

I've known many "mature" Christians who in reality are only interested in having everyone follow their dogmas.


Well that does not really answer the question, now does it?


Eph. 4: As a prisoner for the Lord, then, I urge you to live a life worthy of the calling you have received. Be completely humble and gentle; be patient, bearing with one another in love........

Keep reading to the end of v. 16 - that, is a very good description of one who is growing in the Lord, or, becoming more mature. It is not how much people know that reflects maturity, but rather how much like Christ they are and, in accordance with Scripture, are grounded in God's Word, which is also to be grounded in Christ. We cannot grow in our Christianity apart from Christ.

Stick to what God's word says. Anything else, is only an opinion and God's word is very clear on what a mature Christian is and calling out other people is not an indication.



WesP -> RE: maturity (8/13/2008 3:27:31 PM)

quote:

God's word is very clear on what a mature Christian is and calling out other people is not an indication.


Allowing a Christian to espouse false doctrine is not an indication either.



solarflare -> RE: maturity (8/13/2008 3:34:02 PM)

quote:

Allowing a Christian to espouse false doctrine is not an indication either.


[sm=aside.gif]


quote:

A mature Christian only demands adherence to salvic doctrine, but even that is presented in love.



car2ner -> RE: maturity (8/13/2008 3:44:46 PM)

quote:

What is "Christian maturity" and can one be mature in one area of their Christian walk and a babe in another?


Two of my favorite pastors have said that they would scrap old sermons of theirs. One is in his 30's the other in his late 50's. Both have said this within a year of each other. We are constantly growing and redefining our internal image of God and His will for us.

And since we can be smarter and more skilled in some areas than others, then why not our understanding of all things spiritual?

One hallmark of maturity in the natural sense is the giving up of self-centeredness. This is a good starting point.



WesP -> RE: maturity (8/13/2008 3:47:23 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: solarflare

quote:

Allowing a Christian to espouse false doctrine is not an indication either.


[sm=aside.gif]


quote:

A mature Christian only demands adherence to salvic doctrine, but even that is presented in love.



Do you see some contradiction, solarflare? If you are under the impression that I was being sarcastic or mean, you are mistaken. I was simply making a point. You admonish and correct in love, but you do not ignore. Sorry if you thought I was being rude.



Hayseed -> RE: maturity (8/13/2008 3:50:42 PM)

There would be a huge revival of maturity if all "Christians" would simply read what scripture actually says for themselves.

Since God provided us with it, I don't think He'll overlook our laziness in reading it.

People that have been sitting in churches for years are still "immature" and ignorant because they don't read for themselves and just take what other people say about it as "gospel truth."



Lapidoth -> RE: maturity (8/13/2008 3:54:52 PM)

Boy, can this be a "hot one." LOL.

Ephesians 4:13
Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and the
knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man,
unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

When a Hebrew child is born (in Bible days) he is
circumcised according to the Scriptures the 8th day.

From then on his life is given to study of God's Word.
When he reaches manhood (12 or 13) he is bar-mitzvah.

From then he begins to make choices. But he presents
his choices to the "minions" of the "house" (family).
Usually 10. They give him the pros and cons of his
decisions. So, he still has guidance in his life.

Once he becomes 30 years old. He then makes the
decisions on his own. And...........he becomes one of
the minions of the family advising the younger ones.

It's no accident that to service in the Tabernacle and
later the Temple that there were ages set for service.
And it wasn't just an age, but a development.

Today, we may grow older, but many don't mature.

Are we at that "full stature of Christ?"



solarflare -> RE: maturity (8/13/2008 3:58:14 PM)

I agree that you must admonish, but let's at least get the basement in before we correct what comes after! Thanks!

The emphasis is on becoming like Jesus - which is what Scripture teaches;
as per my Ephesians quote. I just found that starting to talk about 'calling people out' was getting off topic of the subject of spiritual maturity.......there is an awful lot of 'calling out' going on and there should be more 'applying it within', I include myself in that.

In fact, having already posted this, I see that Lapidoth posted in here and
his last sentence, "Are we at that 'full stature of Christ?" is what Ephesians is describing and what I am writing about.



rcjames -> RE: maturity (8/13/2008 4:11:11 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: P31W

Ok so as to not go off on a rabbit trail in another thead.

What is "Christian maturity" and can one be mature in one area of their Christian walk and a babe in another?


I think Scripture speaks to this here;

(Eph 4:11) And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

(Eph 4:12) For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

(Eph 4:13) Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

(Eph 4:14) That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

(Eph 4:15) But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

and here;

(Rom 12:1) I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

(Rom 12:2) And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
And here;

(Gal 5:22) But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

(Gal 5:23) Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

And here;

(Php 3:13) Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,

(Php 3:14) I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

(Php 3:15) Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.

When thesae Scriptures are fulfilled in our lives; we are mature.

Thanks
RC



Hayseed -> RE: maturity (8/13/2008 4:16:05 PM)

Hmmm... I'm not sure I'm following you solarflare.

Are you saying that because none of us are perfect that we should just not deal with the truth?

Obviously, I know that's not what you mean. But, I don't get what your post is saying.

IMO: There's been too little "calling out" in the Church of the people who really need to be "called out."



solarflare -> RE: maturity (8/13/2008 4:21:08 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hayseed

Hmmm... I'm not sure I'm following you solarflare.

Are you saying that because none of us are perfect that we should just not deal with the truth?

Obviously, I know that's not what you mean. But, I don't get what your post is saying.

IMO: There's been too little "calling out" in the Church of the people who really need to be "called out."



No, you are not following me. I am saying that calling out people is not a sign of spiritual maturity. It needs to be done....but that is not spiritual maturity. And since the OP asked about spiritual maturity....Scripture answers us on that question very well....Ephesians. Thanks

As per what RC just posted about this post



LCannon -> RE: maturity (8/13/2008 4:31:00 PM)

'Maturity' is not a destination rather is a going pursuit as though we've arrived 'at maturity.' "Maturity is the willingness to bear uncertainty and to carry within one's self unanswered questions." --Elisabeth Elliot--



Liveloved -> RE: maturity (8/13/2008 4:42:52 PM)

Maturity is not about what you know but Who you know. We can study God's word and be biblical scholars and yet be immature Christians or not a Christian at all.

Maturity comes from feeding on Jesus, taking Him in to yourself and letting Him live out His life in you. His word performs His work within. It is a daily dying so that His life is manifested.



Hayseed -> RE: maturity (8/13/2008 4:46:22 PM)

Read the scriptures RC posted above.

Let me ask this: Do you believe that God still has prophets and apostles called? Or is "Pastor" the highest authority today?

I think a lot of what I'm gonna say is going to be determined on where folks stand on this point.



solarflare -> RE: maturity (8/13/2008 4:50:14 PM)

Is there a problem staying on topic? That is what I intend to do.

There are plenty of other threads for discussing other things and if I care to read and or post, I know where to find them.

Thanks



solarflare -> RE: maturity (8/13/2008 4:52:39 PM)

quote:

'Maturity' is not a destination rather is a going pursuit as though we've arrived 'at maturity.' "Maturity is the willingness to bear uncertainty and to carry within one's self unanswered questions." --Elisabeth Elliot--


Well, I think maturity is a destination...if you follow after Jesus as He is the destination and our example...I don't agree with this quote...please don't take it personal, I just don't find this makes too much sense when compared with what Scriptures says is maturity.



Liveloved -> RE: maturity (8/13/2008 4:58:44 PM)

quote:

Read the scriptures RC posted above.

Let me ask this: Do you believe that God still has prophets and apostles called? Or is "Pastor" the highest authority today?

I think a lot of what I'm gonna say is going to be determined on where folks stand on this point.


Hayseed, Who are you asking this question of?



URForgiven -> RE: maturity (8/13/2008 6:18:30 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: P31W

Ok so as to not go off on a rabbit trail in another thead.

What is "Christian maturity" and can one be mature in one area of their Christian walk and a babe in another?


The spiritually mature are mature because they have learned to present themselves to Christ, for Him to work His will in their lives.

Most think that as we mature spiritually we become bigger and stronger, but the truth is the opposite of that. We mature by becoming less and less. As we learn to turn over more areas of our lives to Him, it is He who becomes greater in us.

Peace



solarflare -> RE: maturity (8/13/2008 7:48:07 PM)

quote:

The spiritually mature are mature because they have learned to present themselves to Christ, for Him to work His will in their lives.



"I am the Vine...you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing." John 15

Different people have said it different ways........we mature in Christ.



Hayseed -> RE: maturity (8/13/2008 11:16:32 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Liveloved

quote:

Read the scriptures RC posted above.

Let me ask this: Do you believe that God still has prophets and apostles called? Or is "Pastor" the highest authority today?

I think a lot of what I'm gonna say is going to be determined on where folks stand on this point.


Hayseed, Who are you asking this question of?


Anybody here. I'm trying to get a frame of reference of where people are coming from.

Trust me, it's not "off topic."[;)]

RC's on to something here and he's brought an extremely pertinent scripture to us.



solarflare -> RE: maturity (8/13/2008 11:28:17 PM)

Eph. 4:11.



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