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RE: Calvinism/Arminianism - One Stop Thread - 9/5/2008 4:59:40 AM
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kelman
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quote:
ORIGINAL: FreeGrace
quote:
ORIGINAL: kelman
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ORIGINAL: FreeGrace
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Besides, where do you get God "delegated" anything? Was Adam doing a job that God didn't want to do?
Regarding the first question: this might surprise you, kelman, but I got it from the Bible. Gen 1:27,28.
"And God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female he created them. And God blessed them; and God said to them, Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it; and RULE OVER the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky, and over every living thing that moves on the earth."
You don't get your opinion from the Bible....you get THAT from your theology. Where does it say anywhere in that verse that God DELEGATED His authority to Adam?...it doesn't. Which btw, in case you've forgotten, is your original question.
My comment about "getting" from the Bible was NOT my opinion. When God said "and RULE OVER fish/birds, every living thing" that means delegation of authority. Maybe you just aren't aware of what words mean, kelman. No, FG, that remains simply your personal opinion that God delegated His authority to Adam; and, an opinion NOT based on Scripture.
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Your ego's too inflated, FG. Just because you don't understand a question doesn't make it an absurd one. Is that not the meaning of "delegate"?...not doing a job you are ultimately accountable for? Besides, as usual, these questions of your's are pointless.
To one who cannot grasp a question, I would expect they would consider it pointless. Probably, even asking a question to one who cannot grasp it is pointless as well. Hey, why make yourself crazy? If none here rises to the level of your super intelligence, why present us with such "difficult" questions?...one's we are simply unable to "grasp"?
So, I agree it is pointless of you to waste all that brilliance of yours asking questions of those not capable of "grasping" them. Now, for the bitter truth, most of your questions ARE pointless or, at least, become so.
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Your confusion stems from the fact you cannot grasp that your choice must indeed be certain because God has certain foreknowledge of it. You misunderstand me. I completely grasp that my choices are certain because God what I choose God already knows. But, your confusion is thinking that His foreknowledge of my choices causes my choices. That is one of the blatant errors of calvinism.
Nope, no "misunderstanding" whatsoever I know exactly what you believe. The fact is that by your OWN example you have proved the accuracy of RT theology. Because the only CERTAIN way that man would fall into that hole would be to push him into that hole.
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My point is that your knowledge (or maybe someone who grasps this example) doesn't in any way cause the man to fall into the hole. Of course, knowledge doesn't "cause" the event; but, having certain knowledge MEANS that the event MUST BE preordained.
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ORIGINAL: kelman
And according to FG, only atheists are fools.....just disregard that part where God says "no, not one"....guess God just made another mistake.
God never makes mistakes, in spite of your weird sarcasm. The mistakes are made by calvinists who fail to understand that Paul was quoting 2 OT passages regarding fools. Nah, it's not "weird" sarcasm just pointing out what is essentially your flawed theology. Bet you never bother to check out what God actually means by "fools" or "foolish"? Had you, you would know that those OT verses do NOT mean atheists.
_____________________________
“beware lest you lose the substance by grasping at the shadow”
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RE: Calvinism/Arminianism - One Stop Thread - 9/5/2008 5:03:19 AM
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kelman
Posts: 4013
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quote:
ORIGINAL: FreeGrace
quote:
ORIGINAL: kelman
We see in Rom 3:22 “Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: “ those who believe, that is, those who have faith, are saved by or because of the faith of Christ which in turn is evidence by the good works which includes the faith seen in the life of the one who was saved. That’s a faith which earns no wage. That's my point, kelman. Our faith earns no wage. To quote you: pay attention. The faith is that OF Jesus Christ - not yours. Since you've totally failed to "grasp" what I said, to help you out I bolded the scripture and the conclusion.
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“What must we do, that we may work the works of God? “This is the work of God, that you believe on him whom he has sent” (John 6:29)" Clearly, we observe that believing is a work. Besides, where is grace when salvation depends upon your belief in YOUR faith?
Your error is found in your words, "when salvation depends upon your belief in your faith". Salvation always depends upon God, who chose to give eternal life to those who believe. But that's a concept that calvinists cannot accept or understand. No, salvation is always depended upon your faith. If you do not first believe, then there will be no salvation for you. Salvation is a "shared" event with some of the glory going to Christ and some going to you for your great faith.
Whereas, Scripture teaches that the Holy Spirit regenerates where and when He please; and, one will only see the effects of His work - faith.
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Which is precisely what it is when you claim that saving faith is autonomous. Where have I claimed that nonsense? Can you show me any posts? I have NEVER said that saving faith is "autonomous". You keep claiming you understand my posts, but this statement demonstrates that you don't You've been saying precisely that for years. Your faith is self-controlled, it came from yourself and God didn't give it to you.
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It’s very simple, FG. As Scripture declares, God gives saving faith. It is His gift to the one He will save. But Scripture also declares that faith is a fruit of the Spirit which means it can grow. Not everyone has equal amounts of fruit, but fruit they WILL have, contrary to your view. How does any of this deal with Jesus chiding His disciples and praising others regarding their faith or lack thereof? Your response ignores the issue completely. Don't you ever tire of your silly games? My answer, from Scripture, answers your question precisely.
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You claim Scripture declares God gives saving faith, yet you produce NO verse with that clearly stated. Sorry, but the "big lie" tactic doesn't work on this thread.
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If faith is a gift from God, Jesus HAD NO RIGHT to either chide or praise anyone for the faith they express. That is my point. Can you actually address that? Yep, I can and I actually did.
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Rom 12:3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.
This verse is directed to believers and has no relevance to unbelievers being given saving faith. Nice try, but no dice. Try paying attention...even a little...otherwise why bother to post? I used this verse to point out that Scripture teaches God gives different amounts of faith to believers. Which, btw, precisely answers your question.
_____________________________
“beware lest you lose the substance by grasping at the shadow”
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RE: Calvinism/Arminianism - One Stop Thread - 9/5/2008 5:32:53 AM
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kelman
Posts: 4013
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quote:
ORIGINAL: FreeGrace
I just heard something on Sean Hannity's radio program today that reminded me of what happens on this thread a lot. 
"Ed" called in to show support for OBama. Sean asked him to list 3 criteria that makes OBama eligible to be president. He couldn't answer and give even 1, and then he accused Sean of "changing the subject" and using that as a "tactic".
Kind of reminded me of the responses I've been getting from certain ones to my questions when they don't have answers.
You may not realize it; but, looks like you're just doing a little "projecting" here.
_____________________________
“beware lest you lose the substance by grasping at the shadow”
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RE: Calvinism/Arminianism - One Stop Thread - 9/5/2008 5:35:11 AM
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kelman
Posts: 4013
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quote:
ORIGINAL: shemaromans
umcbee,
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ORIGINAL: umcbee
So.......you need to ask yourself this : is the redemption and salvation of man more important to God , or is teaching the angels about His wisdom (which they surely know much about already) more important to God ?
I asked myself and realized that you left out an option.
The most important thing is that God be glorified. Period. And God has a plan to ensure that comes to pass. All of creation will glorify Him.
Salvation for man is part of that plan. Showing (or reminding) the rulers and authorities in the heavenlies that He is God is part of that plan. To unite all things in Him is part of that plan.
The reason for God's grace is so that He can be glorified. It's about Him, not us. We're merely the blessed recipients of grace--which we don't deserve--according to His will, that His purpose be manifested: God being glorified.
Whatever the "heavenlies" entail, can you just imagine the glory and mercy of God being demonstrated to them? They must see this earth and its miserable people in rebellion against God; yet, God does not strike them dead for their iniquity. Instead, He places the iniquity of some upon Himself and actually dies for them!
I can just picture the "heavenlies" thinking WOW God's even greater than we knew!
_____________________________
“beware lest you lose the substance by grasping at the shadow”
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RE: Calvinism/Arminianism - One Stop Thread - 9/5/2008 7:25:28 AM
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rwe2156
Posts: 2473
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quote:
ORIGINAL: willfs
You don't have to work for Zogby to know that certain factors make it much
more likely for a person to come to Christ - christian parents, christian friends, church experiences....etc...
Certain factors?
Surprising coming from a Calvinist - if you are a Calvinist.
Ever wonder why one of the elite elect would ever need "convincing"?
If grace is irresistible and the call is effectual, why did Paul feel he needed
to be "all things to all men in order to save a few"?
If its all been predetermined, why did Paul reason with the Jews?
But if part of coming to Christ involves a personal decision to repent
as your own theologians say.........
......then you have your explanation.
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In fact, there are even remote communities where someone has never
come to Christ and, unless a missionary finds the place, they never will, simply
because they don't have certain factors that other communities have.
That's why a true missionary has a burning desire for people to be saved - he
believes that salvation has come to ALL men. He believes ALL = ALL!
But for a determinist, why isn't the Great Commission reduced to an act of obedience?
Why would a determinist have a burning desire to see men saved if every man
who will ever be saved has already been chosen? Yes, there is satisfaction in
knowing you were the delivery man, but did God really need your "help"?
quote:
Why would God allow this? Why did he give me (and most of my other
Christian friends) parents who are believers and a christian community and he
didn't do so for some guy in a remote tribe of Africa. If he sent the babies of
those tribes christian parents and a christian community then that tribe would
see many come to Christ.
It isn't because he loves you more than a baby in Nairobi, friend.
We all started out like this spiritually - don't let living conditions cloud your perception.
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But think about your answers to prayers. From out point of view, everything
seems to be based on mere coincidence and human free choice.
No, from my point of view it was all based on mere coincidence and human decisions.
First, for a determinist, there can be no such thing as an answered prayer.
Second, if you believe determinst theology, it sure IS coincidence: a chance coincidence
of your desire with God's predetermined plan. Your prayer changed nothing, your
prayer "availeth little" if God never changes his contemporaneous plans.
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I just so happen to be given exactly what I was needed by, what seemed to be,
a freak accident. Did God reach down and plant the job? Did an angel threaten the
personel director of my job to hire me or else?
Great, but for Calvinism it couldn't be a response to a prayer if it was a predetermined plan.
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Its the same with salvation. God's not leaving it up to certain factors for who will
come to Christ. It looks that way from our point of view but its not totally true.
God sets the conditions, man must respond.
You spoke demographically before about more people in a certain town coming to Christ.
Do you know why prosperity is the biggest hindrance to the gospel?
Why would money and materialism be such a deterrent?
Why is it so hard for the rich to be saved?
You think most of the rich are non elect? If so, why would God choose not to choose the rich?
Everything God does is rational and purposeful. There is no rationale or purpose
in declaring the rich have a harder time getting to heaven if men have no part
to play in their salvation.
Think about it. What does Romans 2:8 say?
_____________________________
The Truth is between the tensions. The "contradictions"only reflect our lack of understanding.
So we choose sides. God help us.
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RE: Calvinism/Arminianism - One Stop Thread - 9/5/2008 7:33:39 AM
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Mannamuncher
Posts: 2965
Joined: 4/13/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: KingJamesBond
SovereignIsHe,
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Oh yes, WAY MORE ELITIST than those who believe they washed themselves enough for God to call upon them and reward them for their self righteousness...
It sure would be neat to see some people boasting much more about their total weakness and inability instead of their able minds and their power of good thoughts.
I feel like some of the people teaching Christian doctrine these days have been taking online courses of the same stuff the Beatles went through with Maharishi Mahesh Yogi. 
I think a large dose of good ole tormenting "thorn in the flesh" from a messenger of Satan might be just the right medicine to humble proud hearts and minds.
Of course this only works on the weak.
Satan could not possibly affect all the powerful intellects with their strong willed minds 
Take care,
KJB
I have no problem confessing my weakness-
I'm dust, dung, scum, last, undeserving, etc.
HIS power is made perfect in weakness.
Evidently, some have attained it already.
The hodge-podge world of easy-believism
incorporates concepts from other belief systems.
WOF...speak it and it will be thus-
Prosperity in all avenues w/o struggling-
Image of God...aka mini-gods-
Pharisee-like self-righteousness...
Not much publican-like breast-beating, huh ?
_____________________________
Effectus non excedit virtutem suae causae [the effect cannot exceed the power of its cause]
Grace may be free, but it may not be chosen...
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RE: Calvinism/Arminianism - One Stop Thread - 9/5/2008 7:52:06 AM
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Mannamuncher
Posts: 2965
Joined: 4/13/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rwe2156
quote:
How so? Appears to me that the calvinist is WAY MORE ELITIST with
their thinking that God chose them for no good reason!
Yeah, Free!
Wouldn't you be if you were one of God's selected elect?
Here's a plan: Choose some and to hell with the rest.
Get rid of the scum and keep the best.
And let previlege go to the head of prideful, sinful man.
Yeah, that's a plan!
NOT!!
God chose you...are you elect ?
Why the complaining then ?
Why are you angry at God for choosing you ?
Or is it b/c He didn't choose everyone ?
Do you even know why you are angry ?
You have the sequence of events wrong anyway...
ALL were condemned and hellbound, and justly so.
For God's purpose and according to God's perfect will-
He ONLY chose some ...not based on their performance.
No one here pretends to understand why...
Although you insisit on telling us WHY God can't.
Because you and your crowd don't like it !!!
_____________________________
Effectus non excedit virtutem suae causae [the effect cannot exceed the power of its cause]
Grace may be free, but it may not be chosen...
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RE: Calvinism/Arminianism - One Stop Thread - 9/5/2008 8:00:27 AM
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rwe2156
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quote:
FREEGRACE: We know enough from Scripture that God HAS made clear to everyone His existence, including His power, nature, and attributes, from Romans 1.
Don't forget Romans 2:5-8
5But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart,
you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God's wrath,
when his righteous judgment will be revealed.
6God "will give to each person according to what he has done."
7To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor
and immortality, he will give eternal life.
8But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and
follow evil, there will be wrath and anger.
In Acts 14 we see the universality of the gospel, a reference to God's general revelation,
and a command to voluntarily repent:
15"We are bringing you good news, telling you to turn from these worthless
things to the living God, who made heaven and earth and sea and everything in them."
and
"they spoke so effectively that a great number of Jews and Gentiles believed" (v. 1)
"How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!" (Rom 10:15)
-- YES, "From one man he made every nation of men, that they should inhabit the
whole earth; and he determined the times set for them and the exact places where
they should live. God did this so that men would seek him and perhaps reach out
for him and find him, though he is not far from each one of us." (Acts 17:26-27)
--YES, "Therefore since we are God's offspring, we should not think that the divine
being is like gold or silver or stone—an image made by man's design and skill."
--YES, "In the past God overlooked such ignorance,
but now he commands all people everywhere to repent." (Acts 17:29-30)
16In the past, he let all nations go their own way.
--YES, " I have spread out My hands all day long to a rebellious people,
Who walk in the way which is not good, following their own thoughts, (Isa 65:2)
17Yet he has not left himself without testimony: He has shown kindness
by giving you rain from heaven and crops in their seasons; he provides you with plenty of
food and fills your hearts with joy."
--YES, "For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—
have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made,
so that men are without excuse." (Rom 1:18)
"The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth
and does not live in temples built by hands. And he is not served by human hands,
as if he needed anything, because he himself gives all men life and breath and everything else.
(Acts 17:24-25)
_____________________________
The Truth is between the tensions. The "contradictions"only reflect our lack of understanding.
So we choose sides. God help us.
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RE: Calvinism/Arminianism - One Stop Thread - 9/5/2008 8:01:24 AM
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Mannamuncher
Posts: 2965
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rwe2156
quote:
ORIGINAL: Mannamuncher
Even though your welfare theology implies it.
Hasn't free will theology been ordained by God, Manna?
Deal with it.
WOW, sounds kinda RCCish...LOL
If you can literally "save the world", then why
don't you and the other FWers simply go do it !?
Get to work man ! Get out there and do it !
Make it happen ! Build the Kingdom !
Tell people what you did - how you decided to believe.
Impart to them your Romans 1 mentality, throw it a
healthy dose of the corn-man, and VOILA'---salvation !
Just make them belive, pray and fast and demand it !!!
Get all that holy umbrage flowing in your veins !!!
When things get slow...remember this verse:
Acts 2:47 (King James Version)
47Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.
_____________________________
Effectus non excedit virtutem suae causae [the effect cannot exceed the power of its cause]
Grace may be free, but it may not be chosen...
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RE: Calvinism/Arminianism - One Stop Thread - 9/5/2008 8:22:30 AM
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KingJamesBond
Posts: 1781
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Mannamuncher,
We have people posting things like;
quote:
Why would a determinist have a burning desire to see men saved if every man
who will ever be saved has already been chosen? Yes, there is satisfaction in
knowing you were the delivery man, but did God really need your "help"?
There is the essence of their POV. It is always in themselves. They seem to suppose that God wants to save everybody equally but He certainly cant do it without the help of sinful man. So the sinful kid in Nairobi is actually dependent on the human efforts of missionaries to keep him out of eternal punishment.
Free-willers cant even begin to suppose that God moves people in the ministry of the gospel, and moves people towards obedience of the gospel as well.
That would be far too much for God to do without human assistance.
willfs posted this in repsonse to FreeGrace and his never ending insistance that Romans 3 does not apply to Cornelius;
quote:
Isaiah 53:6
We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to his own way; and the LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all.
willfs if you are reading this....the text in the Bible where it says people have turned their own way and gone astray cannot be applied to Cornelius.
When you see text like;
1As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, 2in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. 3All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our sinful nature and following its desires and thoughts.
That would not apply to Cornelius and certain other people either.
Some were following their Godly thoughts and intellect.
Not everybody is depraved you know.
On a more serious note;
3What if some did not have faith?
Will their lack of faith nullify God's faithfulness?
4Not at all!
Take care,
KJB
_____________________________
Thank God we don't get as much Government as we pay for! -Will Rogers
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RE: Calvinism/Arminianism - One Stop Thread - 9/5/2008 8:34:45 AM
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FreeGrace
Posts: 8251
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quote:
ORIGINAL: KingJamesBond
FreeGrace;
quote:
Your "conclusion" is in error, since what one believes or rejects has zero to do with understanding and accepting or rejecting the claim.
You come up with the strangest comments.
Since you managed to "lose" the context of my comment, any comment taken out of context can look strange. Why did you not include your comment to my response?
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In fact, Rom 1:20 says that His existence, power, nature and attributes are clearly seen so that no one has any excuse for not recognizing and honoring God as God, and being thankful. And we see in the life of Cornelius a Gentile unbeliever who DID recognize God, reverenced Him and was thankful, evident by his many prayers. The result of Cornelius recognizing and pursuing (seeking) God was that God answered his prayers, sent an angel with more evidence, which he believed, and ultimately, Peter, with the gospel.
If what you say is fact, everybody that does what Cornelius did should be expecting angels too.
Why would you conclude "everybody"? Does everybody come to faith just like Paul? On the road to Damascus, in a very bright light, with voices booming?
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Why do you apply every part of that to all people except the angel part? [/quoe]
The ONLY point, KJ, is that God gave Cornelius more evidence of Truth. It comes in many packages. Do you feel left out that God didn't send you an angel?
quote:
Sort of selective dont you think?
Given your "selective elective" theology, that's quite a question.
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RE: Calvinism/Arminianism - One Stop Thread - 9/5/2008 8:38:52 AM
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FreeGrace
Posts: 8251
Joined: 12/30/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: rwe2156
quote:
How so? Appears to me that the calvinist is WAY MORE ELITIST with
their thinking that God chose them for no good reason!
Yeah, Free!
Wouldn't you be if you were one of God's selected elect?
Here's a plan: Choose some and to hell with the rest.
Get rid of the scum and keep the best.
And let previlege go to the head of prideful, sinful man.
Yeah, that's a plan!NOT!!
Oh yes, WAY MORE ELITIST than those who believe they washed themselves enough for God to call upon them and reward them for their self righteousness...
Oh yes, one more example of the calvinists purposely mischaracterizing the FW pov. You know better than to stoop to this low comment that has NO relationship with FW pov. There is NO ONE in the FW camp who thinks they "wahed themselves enough for God to call upon them". That is pure nonsense and you know it. Why do you stoop to dishonest comments? Why are you trying to demean and discredit a theology by such comments?
Shame on you.
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RE: Calvinism/Arminianism - One Stop Thread - 9/5/2008 8:42:26 AM
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FreeGrace
Posts: 8251
Joined: 12/30/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: kelman
quote:
ORIGINAL: FreeGrace
My comment about "getting" from the Bible was NOT my opinion. When God said "and RULE OVER fish/birds, every living thing" that means delegation of authority. Maybe you just aren't aware of what words mean, kelman. No, FG, that remains simply your personal opinion that God delegated His authority to Adam; and, an opinion NOT based on Scripture.
OK, kelman, if "rule over" doesn't mean "delegation of authority" to you, that's fine with me.
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RE: Calvinism/Arminianism - One Stop Thread - 9/5/2008 9:47:37 AM
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Mannamuncher
Posts: 2965
Joined: 4/13/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: KingJamesBond
willfs posted this in repsonse to FreeGrace and his never ending insistance that Romans 3 does not apply to Cornelius;
quote:
Isaiah 53:6
We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to his own way; and the LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all.
willfs if you are reading this....the text in the Bible where it says people have turned their own way and gone astray cannot be applied to Cornelius.
When you see text like;
1As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, 2in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. 3All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our sinful nature and following its desires and thoughts.
That would not apply to Cornelius and certain other people either.
Some were following their Godly thoughts and intellect.
Not everybody is depraved you know.
On a more serious note;
3What if some did not have faith?
Will their lack of faith nullify God's faithfulness?
4Not at all!
Take care,
KJB
And a few verses down in Romans 3
Romans 3:5-8 (New American Standard Bible)
5But if our unrighteousness demonstrates the righteousness of God, what shall we say? The God who inflicts wrath is not unrighteous, is He? I am speaking in human terms.)
6May it never be! For otherwise, how will God judge the world?
7But if through my lie the truth of God abounded to His glory, why am I also still being judged as a sinner?
8And why not say (as we are slanderously reported and as some claim that we say), "Let us do evil that good may come"? Their condemnation is just.
WOW, that must offend the FW crowd, eh ?
God's glory takes PRECEDENCE over all !!!
Condemnation without salvation is totally just.
_____________________________
Effectus non excedit virtutem suae causae [the effect cannot exceed the power of its cause]
Grace may be free, but it may not be chosen...
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RE: Calvinism/Arminianism - One Stop Thread - 9/5/2008 10:16:20 AM
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FreeGrace
Posts: 8251
Joined: 12/30/2005
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kelman,
Can you, in light of calvinistic theology which claims that Christ didn't die for the non-elect, explain WHY Jesus promised salvation for the non-elect in John 8:24?
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RE: Calvinism/Arminianism - One Stop Thread - 9/5/2008 10:42:39 AM
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rwe2156
Posts: 2473
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Mannamuncher
quote:
ORIGINAL: rwe2156
quote:
ORIGINAL: Mannamuncher
Even though your welfare theology implies it.
Hasn't free will theology been ordained by God, Manna?
Deal with it.
WOW, sounds kinda RCCish...LOL
What, you think no Catholics can believe?
I am not Catholic.
quote:
Tell people what you did - how you decided to believe.
Tell me what sin you did - how you decided to sin.
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Impart to them your Romans 1 mentality, throw it a
healthy dose of the corn-man, and VOILA'---salvation !
Tell is to Paul.
How did he reason with them on Mars Hill?
Why reason at all?
Why did some believe because of the effectiveness of
his speaking in Acts 14:1?
The essence of gospel presentation is this:
"We too are only men, human like you. We are bringing you
good news, telling you to turn from these worthless things to
the living God, who made heaven and earth and sea and
everything in them."
I responded to selected parts of your post.
The rest was a complete waste of keystrokes.
The Bible is VERY clear that wicked men can repent.
< Message edited by rwe2156 -- 9/5/2008 10:55:36 AM >
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The Truth is between the tensions. The "contradictions"only reflect our lack of understanding.
So we choose sides. God help us.
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RE: Calvinism/Arminianism - One Stop Thread - 9/5/2008 10:50:42 AM
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rwe2156
Posts: 2473
Status: offline
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Does anyone know why Adam was ashamed of his sin?
I have yet to get a reformed answer.
_____________________________
The Truth is between the tensions. The "contradictions"only reflect our lack of understanding.
So we choose sides. God help us.
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RE: Calvinism/Arminianism - One Stop Thread - 9/5/2008 11:16:07 AM
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rwe2156
Posts: 2473
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
Oh yes, WAY MORE ELITIST than those who believe they washed themselves enough for God to call upon them and reward them for their self righteousness...
Oh, come, come now.
Who will feel more elite, the one who claims if of God?
There is much arrogance and dogmatism on this thread
from the Calvinist crowd - a product of pride.
How many times have you seen one us challenge the
salvation of one who disagrees? Or tell a one they don't
believe God if they disagree with us?
< Message edited by rwe2156 -- 9/5/2008 11:28:11 AM >
_____________________________
The Truth is between the tensions. The "contradictions"only reflect our lack of understanding.
So we choose sides. God help us.
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RE: Calvinism/Arminianism - One Stop Thread - 9/5/2008 11:27:04 AM
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