RE: Is B. Hussein O. the biggest threat to our country in history?
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RE: Is B. Hussein O. the biggest threat to our country ... - 8/8/2008 2:54:10 PM
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davemiller7
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I don't consider worrying about a socialist state overblown. If you're in favor of the redistribution of wealth, nationalized oil industry (ala Maxine Waters), universal healthcare, and the government with its fingers into nearly everything, then you shouldn't worry about a socialist state. Personally, I want our freedom from government control of our money and our lives.
America has not always had some components of socialism. You won't find anything socialist in the U.S. Constitution and Bill Of Rights. Socialism is something that has gradually worked its way into our government. It snowballed during the 1930s and has continued at varying rates to the present day.
Socialism doesn't work, nor does its big brother, communism. Notice that most of Europe has begun to drift away from socialism. Communism didn't fare well in the USSR. It split up. However, Putin and some of his cronies still cling to the hope of bringing back the glory days.
Obama's lukewarm support for domestic drilling is a new development. He noticed which way the people were leaning and decided he had better go along with it (somewhat). Just more of his flip-flopping on issues, depending on the winds of public opinion.
-Dave
quote:
ORIGINAL: huangshan
quote:
ORIGINAL: davemiller7
But what scares me the most is his saying that America needs to change. From what little he has actually done and what little information he has come out with, I think that, with the help of Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reed, he would like to move America into a socialist state. He favors universal healthcare, higher taxes and redistribution of wealth, unlimited immigration, and no domestic drilling for oil or natural gas.
I'm not sure what you mean by socialist state, as America has almost always had some components of socialism. He's taken fire from the left because of the relative non-universality of his health care plan, his "higher taxes" are largely a response to what could be considered extremely irresponsible tax cuts under Bush...
...while I personally support unlimited immigration, Barack Obama does not, and a simple glance at his website would dispel this notion, as well as the untrue assertion that he offers no support for domestic drilling.
I think that rhetoric about a "socialist state" is terribly overblown, particularly in this day and age, and considering the history that we have witnessed.
_____________________________
-Dave
The Prayer of Protection
The light of God surrounds me,
The love of God enfolds me,
The power of God protects me,
The presence of God watches over me.
Wherever I am, God is.
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RE: Is B. Hussein O. the biggest threat to our country ... - 8/8/2008 2:57:30 PM
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Leon_Figg3
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quote:
ORIGINAL: huangshan
quote:
ORIGINAL: Leon_Figg3
2. He is a product of the Chicago/ Illinois political machine.
While I dispute almost everything else you said as well, this reminded me of an article I read a while back about how he wasn't particularly tainted by the Chicago political machine as he spent very little time being involved with it, and his victories had little to do with its influence. He didn't have to make any backroom deals as far as anyone can tell (if I recall the content of the article correctly).
I suppose from this, you could spin it as him being lucky rather than experienced, or (as I see it) he is lucky and a good politician, capable of seizing opportunities in meaningful and effective ways.
I was thinking about my reference to Chicago/ Illinois political machine after I posted it.
Some of the conclusion I have come to, on this account, comes from political experts that have sited the fact that much of Obama's quick rise through the ranks of the party could partly be explained by his charisma and and partly because of the interest he managed to capture of key members the political party in Illinois as well as else where.
I also come to this conclusion based on the involvement my grandfather and his brothers and friends have had with Chicago politics. My mother often liked to boast that she could name at least five families who have had involvement in Chicago politics, as well as shady characters on both sides of the law, that go back generations.
In Chicago, more often than not, it is not what you know that gets you ahead, but who you know, and who you are related to.
I do not mean to infer that Obama necessarily made backroom deals with anyone. I tend to think more that he kew the right people, and those people have seen to it that he has a squeeky clean record. I quess I am inferring that once Obama gets to where these people want him to be, that is when they will call in favors and remind him how he got to where he is. (You scratch my back, I'll scrath yours or vice versa)
_____________________________
To whom much is given, much is expected. Luke 12:48
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RE: Is B. Hussein O. the biggest threat to our country ... - 8/8/2008 3:06:07 PM
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huangshan
Posts: 766
Joined: 8/6/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: davemiller7
I don't consider worrying about a socialist state overblown. If you're in favor of the redistribution of wealth, nationalized oil industry (ala Maxine Waters), universal healthcare, and the government with its fingers into nearly everything, then you shouldn't worry about a socialist state. Personally, I want our freedom from government control of our money and our lives.
America has not always had some components of socialism. You won't find anything socialist in the U.S. Constitution and Bill Of Rights. Socialism is something that has gradually worked its way into our government. It snowballed during the 1930s and has continued at varying rates to the present day.
Socialism doesn't work, nor does its big brother, communism. Notice that most of Europe has begun to drift away from socialism. Communism didn't fare well in the USSR. It split up. However, Putin and some of his cronies still cling to the hope of bringing back the glory days.
Sure, I don't consider government to be an inherently bad thing. It's a social tool that can be used for good or ill. I think there are situations of obvious excess and/or misuse, as well as situations where society might really benefit from the government being a little more involved.
I'm not sure in what ways you mean that Europe is drifting away from socialism. Some citations may be needed on that one. I'm also aware that there has never been a communist state in history, only governments run by so-called communist parties. Communism is an unreachable, utopian idea of a government-less society.
The USSR was an authoritarian (and sometimes totalitarian) super-socialist state. They ar a fine example of unreasonable and harmful excess of government. They were not a communist state (though the communist party ran the show, and this has caused no end of confusion for laymen).
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RE: Is B. Hussein O. the biggest threat to our country ... - 8/8/2008 4:09:44 PM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cow451
quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
The biggest threat; no.
And if he becomes president we will survive; i mean if we survived Carter why not survive Obama.
Thanks
RC
The US has also survived the last eight years.
And is better off for it.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Is B. Hussein O. the biggest threat to our country ... - 8/8/2008 4:31:35 PM
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todd_t
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quote:
In Chicago, more often than not, it is not what you know that gets you ahead, but who you know, and who you are related to.
Chicago? I can't think of anyplace where this maxim doesn't apply.
_____________________________
In Memoriam: 1st Sgt. Obediah Kolath, US Army, Died in Iraq War (1973-2005)
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RE: Is B. Hussein O. the biggest threat to our country ... - 8/8/2008 5:22:23 PM
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Leon_Figg3
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True
I stand corrected
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To whom much is given, much is expected. Luke 12:48
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RE: Is B. Hussein O. the biggest threat to our country ... - 8/8/2008 11:29:27 PM
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blessedinnyc
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
And is better off for it.
Thanks
RC
Under Carter, the deficit didn't grow $4 Trillion, inflation decreased, and the US increased its energy efficiency per $ GDP by 20%.
It must have been a difficult four years, but us folks who weren't under consideration by the BLS back then are grateful for Carter. I think the country would be better off today (though admittedly not better off in 1984) if Carter had won the 1980 election.
I think the history books will be much kinder to Carter than Bush (if Carter is even mentioned as a 1-term president), but we will have to wait another 40-50 years to see.
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RE: Is B. Hussein O. the biggest threat to our country ... - 8/9/2008 1:04:09 PM
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RichLP
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I find this thread's opening post rather humorous.
To start with the title. The original poster intentionally wrote Barack Obama's name with the abbreviations of "Barack" and "Obama" and only spelled out "Hussein" in a clear attempt to remind others here of Saddam Hussein. This is nothing new; a man did so in a campaign event for John McCain not long ago, and McCain himself condemned that man's actions.
Then right here on Crosswalk, a lot of Christian people who on Sundays worship the God of the Bible, the book which says that "There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus" buy into this slanderous, ill-conceived, mean-spirited nonsense in complete ignorance of the meanings of the words "Barack" and "Hussein," which respectively mean "good" and "blessing" and BOTH OF WHICH APPEAR IN THE OLD TESTAMENT.
Biggest threat to our history. As shrill as this claim is, it's outmatched by its sheer stupidity.
< Message edited by RichLP -- 8/9/2008 1:11:20 PM >
_____________________________
"We have removed an ally of Al Qaeda" - G.W. Bush lies to America and to the world, 5/1/2003
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RE: Is B. Hussein O. the biggest threat to our country ... - 8/9/2008 1:13:09 PM
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Leon_Figg3
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We are talking about the man and his political beliefs not his name.
In Eastern culture a man's/ woman's name may mean something, but in Western culture it usually doesn't mean all that much, unless that man/woman is able to live up to his name. Most of the time people, in both cultures, do not.
Also, I suggest you reread the full context of the passage you quoted, because I seriously doubt it applies to what you seem to think it applies to. It applies to the spiritual Kingdom of God, not physical life on Earth.
I may aggree with you that maybe the word "threat" in the title should be changed. It just may be too great of an exaggeration of what his political philosophy may mean to America. Then too, it just may make some people feel a bit too uncomfortable, about the dangers may that may very likely be faced by this country if he wins and has an opportunity to carry through with his plans, and programs.
Trouble is, if the word was changed it would neither make sense, nor be truthful, in any sense of the title's meaning.
< Message edited by Leon_Figg3 -- 8/9/2008 1:34:58 PM >
_____________________________
To whom much is given, much is expected. Luke 12:48
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RE: Is B. Hussein O. the biggest threat to our country ... - 8/9/2008 1:23:50 PM
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tafkam
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I would love for some of our Obama supporters on these forums to step forward and explain how ANY of Mr. Obama's stances line up with the word of God and what we are commanded to be as Christians.
I'm also curious why you would so wholeheartedly support someone for President who is so reluctant to find something even remotely positive to say about the nation he wishes to lead.
Of course I think we'll be waiting a while for that to occur....
_____________________________
"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.' - Ronald Reagan
Tafkam
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RE: Is B. Hussein O. the biggest threat to our country ... - 8/9/2008 3:15:27 PM
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HighPlainsDrifter
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quote:
It must have been a difficult four years, but us folks who weren't under consideration by the BLS back then are grateful for Carter. I think the country would be better off today (though admittedly not better off in 1984) if Carter had won the 1980 election.
I disagree, but then I'm not a Chicago-school economist.
_____________________________
Molon Labe
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RE: Is B. Hussein O. the biggest threat to our country ... - 8/9/2008 3:33:35 PM
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TaoPoohBear
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tafkam
I would love for some of our Obama supporters on these forums to step forward and explain how ANY of Mr. Obama's stances line up with the word of God and what we are commanded to be as Christians.
The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States. - The United States Constitution
Also, if you'll read this (which I doubt!) - http://www.barackobama.com/issues/
you might find a "few" Christian values.
quote:
I'm also curious why you would so wholeheartedly support someone for President who is so reluctant to find something even remotely positive to say about the nation he wishes to lead.
Of course I think we'll be waiting a while for that to occur....
Ah yes, the Bush mantra - "just wait & see....." 
To be followed by "wait a minute, that's not what we're waiting for!"
Well, you could go to the web-site I just gave you.
Ot this article -
quote:
Obama's 60-second ad, narrated by the candidate, is largely biographical, with gentle folk guitar music in the background.
"I was raised by a single mom and my grandparents," Obama tells viewers. "We didn't have much money, but they taught me values straight from the Kansas heartland where they grew up. Accountability and self-reliance. Love of country."
Those values, he says, inspired him to work his way through college, "pass up Wall Street jobs and go to Chicago instead, helping neighborhoods devastated when steel plants closed."
As for issues, the spot mentions Obama's support for "welfare to work," tax cuts for working families and "healthcare for wounded troops."
The ad comes after months of efforts by Republicans to raise doubts about Obama's patriotism.
Among other things, they have questioned why he sometimes did not wear a flag pin on his lapel.
Obama ad stresses values and patriotism
But you probably won't believe any of it because -
He won't wear a flag lapel pin or sign a loyalty oath or.......
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RE: Is B. Hussein O. the biggest threat to our country ... - 8/9/2008 5:31:36 PM
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tafkam
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Um, Christians don't have the market cornered on being good people or having values....what I'm referring to is Barack's wholehearted endorsement of blatantly anti-Christian issues such as gay rights and abortion on demand, not to mention attending a church that basically spews hate and biogtry for the last 20 plus years...
_____________________________
"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.' - Ronald Reagan
Tafkam
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RE: Is B. Hussein O. the biggest threat to our country ... - 8/9/2008 5:41:14 PM
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wing2000
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quote:
The US has also survived the last eight years.
...we still have a few months left.
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RE: Is B. Hussein O. the biggest threat to our country ... - 8/9/2008 5:44:36 PM
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blessedinnyc
Posts: 1963
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quote:
ORIGINAL: HighPlainsDrifter
quote:
It must have been a difficult four years, but us folks who weren't under consideration by the BLS back then are grateful for Carter. I think the country would be better off today (though admittedly not better off in 1984) if Carter had won the 1980 election.
I disagree, but then I'm not a Chicago-school economist.
Could you explain why you think so?
Under Reagan's deficit-generating policies, the national debt roughly doubled in four years between 1980 and 1984. We stopped increasing energy efficiency and started increasing consumer spending. In 1980, the national savings rate was well over 10%; by 1990, it had decreased to 5%. During this time, we also went from being a lender nation to being a debtor nation.
From a pure numbers standpoint, Reagan doesn't look much different from that family down the street that had to get a subprime loan to buy their house- and most of us now realize where this ends up.
In 1980, had we elected a fiscal conservative, the US might have been better off today than if we had elected a fiscal liberal. However, we elected neither in 1980; we elected a borrow-and-spend neoconservative. The same thing happened in 2000. In both cases, these borrow-and-spenders did much more damage to our nation's balance sheet than either a typical liberal or conservative would have.
The only reason Reagan gets the credit he did for the 80s was that the US government, consumers, and corporations took out their credit cards and borrowed their way out of a recession. If he were able to leave our debt the way he found it to get us out of recession, that would be something special, but he didn't. Finally, his successor, Bush I, was forced to raise taxes because of concerns over the massive deficits we were ringing up.
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RE: Is B. Hussein O. the biggest threat to our country ... - 8/10/2008 3:04:28 AM
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TaoPoohBear
Posts: 554
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tafkam
Um, Christians don't have the market cornered on being good people or having values....what I'm referring to is Barack's wholehearted endorsement of blatantly anti-Christian issues such as gay rights and abortion on demand, not to mention attending a church that basically spews hate and biogtry for the last 20 plus years...
Let's see - hate & bigotry, abortion & gay rights.
Why don't you ask Randall Terry & Fred Phelps and get back to me.
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RE: Is B. Hussein O. the biggest threat to our country ... - 8/10/2008 4:34:08 AM
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saved9201
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quote:
ORIGINAL: RichLP
Biggest threat to our history. As shrill as this claim is, it's outmatched by its sheer stupidity.
Agree 100%. Obama is just another politician running for president. Just a little less experienced than others, but other than that, just another democrat. However in this election, like none other, the right has chosen to create this villian, this enemy. Not just an opponent. Possibly because they know McCain isn't a guy who garners a lot of enthusiam with the conservative base, they must create the scenario that we are at war with an enemy far greater than any we have encountered (as one poster wrote) since the Axis powers of WWII. A villian that good hard-working Patriotic Christian American white people have a duty to defeat, and the only way to defeat him is to vote for John McCain. The only way to save our great nation from takeover by anti-white, anti-Christian, anti-American, Muslim terrorist extremists and gangsta rappers who support this guy is NOT to stay home, NOT to vote third party, but to vote for John McCain. He's the only one who can save us. If you don't vote for McCain, YOU yourself will have shown you're not a patriotic Christian American.
Get the picture?
How have they done it? First, start with the widespread panic caused by Obama's church. Lots of churches are like that. I attended a service by the current pastor of the church, Otis Moss III. Lots of churches in the black community - baptist, methodist, COGIC, preach the same kind of message. I don't agree with it, of course, but it's true. I'm sure lots of white churches (I hate to use that term, but let's be realistic here) have had a pastor preach a message scolding America for it's stand or lack of on issues. They just do it with a little less fervor as Wright. But with Obama's church, it's different. This man MUST now believe everything taught there. Well not everything, cause since some of you say he's not a Christian, he only believes the anti-white folks, anti-American rhetoric preached by Rev. Wright.
Then theres the flagpin. And his wife's saying she's never been proud of this country before. Pictures of him without his hand over his heart during the singing of the anthem. Then the recent commercial that had the ominous tone that he was somehow claiming to be the Messiah, a subtle reference to the way the Anti-Christ would arrive.
Now people are making a big deal about a rapper writing a song about him. Further villainizing him. The excuse is, "well, we don't know him, so these radical associations bring into question his character." Fine, so why dosen't anyone dig that deep into the associations of any of the other candidates that you "don't know"? Why is this guy so different?
Don't make me state the obvious.
- Julius
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RE: Is B. Hussein O. the biggest threat to our country ... - 8/10/2008 5:06:49 AM
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huangshan
Posts: 766
Joined: 8/6/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tafkam
I'm also curious why you would so wholeheartedly support someone for President who is so reluctant to find something even remotely positive to say about the nation he wishes to lead.
Um, going through his biography and saying that his story is only possible in America is pretty standard boilerplate for Obama.
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RE: Is B. Hussein O. the biggest threat to our country ... - 8/10/2008 5:31:33 AM
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scutus
Posts: 356
Joined: 10/30/2006
From: Sydney, Australia
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tafkam
Um, Christians don't have the market cornered on being good people or having values....what I'm referring to is Barack's wholehearted endorsement of blatantly anti-Christian issues such as gay rights and abortion on demand, not to mention attending a church that basically spews hate and biogtry for the last 20 plus years...
Now lets be fair, the church can't have been spewing hate for everyday of the 20 years.
_____________________________
Suo enim quisque studio maxime ducitur.
—Cicero, De Finibus, 5.5
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RE: Is B. Hussein O. the biggest threat to our country ... - 8/10/2008 9:19:34 AM
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Dubya
Posts: 1019
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From: Texas
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quote:
ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc
quote:
ORIGINAL: HighPlainsDrifter
quote:
It must have been a difficult four years, but us folks who weren't under consideration by the BLS back then are grateful for Carter. I think the country would be better off today (though admittedly not better off in 1984) if Carter had won the 1980 election.
I disagree, but then I'm not a Chicago-school economist.
Could you explain why you think so?
Under Reagan's deficit-generating policies, the national debt roughly doubled in four years between 1980 and 1984. We stopped increasing energy efficiency and started increasing consumer spending. In 1980, the national savings rate was well over 10%; by 1990, it had decreased to 5%. During this time, we also went from being a lender nation to being a debtor nation.
From a pure numbers standpoint, Reagan doesn't look much different from that family down the street that had to get a subprime loan to buy their house- and most of us now realize where this ends up.
In 1980, had we elected a fiscal conservative, the US might have been better off today than if we had elected a fiscal liberal. However, we elected neither in 1980; we elected a borrow-and-spend neoconservative. The same thing happened in 2000. In both cases, these borrow-and-spenders did much more damage to our nation's balance sheet than either a typical liberal or conservative would have.
The only reason Reagan gets the credit he did for the 80s was that the US government, consumers, and corporations took out their credit cards and borrowed their way out of a recession. If he were able to leave our debt the way he found it to get us out of recession, that would be something special, but he didn't. Finally, his successor, Bush I, was forced to raise taxes because of concerns over the massive deficits we were ringing up.
Let's take a look at some statistics. Economic Research and Data
If you take a close look at the graph in figure 1 it shows that the percentage savings rate in 1980 as about 9 - 10%... NOT well over 10% as you claim. Also not that in the first couple of years of Reagan's administration the savings rate did rise above 10%. The interesting thing to note is the sharp decline between 1991 through 2000. Let's see... who was president from 1993 - 2000? Oh yeah, I remember.
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RE: Is B. Hussein O. the biggest threat to our country ... - 8/10/2008 11:38:26 AM
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tafkam
Posts: 2067
Joined: 9/23/2005
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quote:
hate & bigotry, abortion & gay rights.
I guess those aren't enough for you, hmmm?
quote:
saying that his story is only possible in America is pretty standard boilerplate for Obama.
I disagree....America isn't the only nation where you can write fiction (which much of Obama's "story" is...
quote:
Now lets be fair, the church can't have been spewing hate for everyday of the 20 years.
Now let's be fair, I didn't use the word "everyday"....
Nice to see my point proven so quickly AND thoroughly...Christians cannot Scripturally defend the man....
_____________________________
"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.' - Ronald Reagan
Tafkam
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RE: Is B. Hussein O. the biggest threat to our country ... - 8/10/2008 12:29:39 PM
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huangshan
Posts: 766
Joined: 8/6/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tafkam
quote:
saying that his story is only possible in America is pretty standard boilerplate for Obama.
I disagree....America isn't the only nation where you can write fiction (which much of Obama's "story" is...
What do you disagree with?
If he's telling his story, embellished or otherwise, he's paying tribute to America by saying that it's only possible in America.
If he's saying that it's only possible in America, and you disagree, he's still giving tribute to America.
So, worst case scenario, he's lying about how great America is, but he's still talking about how great it is.
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