|
Users viewing this topic:
none
|
|
Login  | |
|
RE: Victoria' secret? - 8/9/2008 4:20:42 PM
|
|
|
earthless
Posts: 6198
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where pigeons are wearing sweaters....
Status: online
|
Joel Osteen: ""I don't remember her saying that, Victoria saying it like that. She said something to the effect of that — maybe something to that effect, but I don't think she said it like that...Victoria said, you know, basically, 'I can't clean that up. Could you please clean it up for me?'"
I guess this guy doesn't like giving real answers. Just like when he was on Larry King Live and asked if Jesus is Lord, if He is the only way for salvation".. his response? 87 'I don't know..."
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Victoria' secret? - 8/10/2008 12:42:00 AM
|
|
|
SonInMe1
Posts: 3396
Joined: 4/16/2005
From: my mom by God
Status: offline
|
I doubt the facts will ever come out. It seems someone is lieing. Each side is completely opposite.
The race card has been played.
The suffering incured is...hemmoroids....lack of sleep...and supposedly a resulting decline in faith.
To me, it sounds like a celebrity abuse. This attendant knew who she was dealing with...like many here, she seemed not to agree with Osteen's popularity....and I think over imagined the entire scenerio.
I could be wrong, I don't really know
No one but them ever will know for sure.
....and I ain't no fan of Osteen.
_____________________________
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Victoria' secret? - 8/10/2008 1:45:56 AM
|
|
|
Rufas2000
Posts: 1311
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
The race card has been played.
And that I don't approve of and I don't think that happened. Unless there is absolute proof I myself will keep the race stuff out of it.
Reading the links I posted has made me more inclined to believe that Victoria Osteen behaved badly that day and the type of bad behavior makes me believe that this is her personality and not a one time deal (I mean, a spill? really, get a life woman, take your napkins which were given to you, clean the spill and send the airline a nasty gram).
Of course I could be wrong. I hope I am because rich people lording it over others really bugs me. Especially when said rich person is rich due to the efforts of his or her spouse (or parents or whomever). But at least I admit that its my opinion. Many people have dismissed the airline attendant's story but there's no proof of that either. Other passengers have verified that Mrs. Osteen behaved badly and beligerantly.
Even if everything is true (honestly, I don't believe there was an intentional assault but some unintentional jostling may have happened) this is an excessive & frivilous lawsuit. But thats obvious.
I'm sorry, its just one of my pet peeves. I think I got my anger out, I feel better now.  I hope she learned from this experience, whatever her role was in it.
BTW: I don't dislike Joel Osteen, he seems like a nice guy. I don't like his emphasis on positive thoughts when what we need is a good kick in the butt. With all due respect to Victoria, while she does some worthy charity work (at least according to wikipedia) she has very little impact on the public or religious discourse and therefore its not possible or fair to have an opinion on her theology. If she "goes solo" like Paula White did (ministry wise, not divorce wise) then that will change and she should be judged on her own theological merits.
< Message edited by Rufas2000 -- 8/10/2008 1:52:24 AM >
_____________________________
Be my friend!
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Victoria' secret? - 8/13/2008 7:58:23 PM
|
|
|
GodsMusic
Posts: 172
Joined: 4/3/2006
Status: online
|
Someone please tell me:
How can you have your "Best Life Now!" if you have to clean up spills?
Isn't that what Peasants are for???
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Victoria' secret? - 8/14/2008 2:18:11 AM
|
|
|
aslouie
Posts: 644
Joined: 5/15/2005
From: Los Angeles, CA.
Status: offline
|
I just got word via Yahoo News that there's at least 3 first-class passengers who supports Victoria Osteen's claims that she's not at fault over this scuffle. I'll try to locate/paste the link, if someone hasn't done so already...
_____________________________
With fame I became more and more stupid, which of course is a very common phenomenon.
--Albert Einstein
That's hot.
--Paris Hilton
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Victoria' secret? - 8/14/2008 6:09:23 AM
|
|
|
_jjp_
Posts: 483
Joined: 10/25/2007
Status: offline
|
Well it appears that the other passengers and a pilot saw no assault AND the accuser has filed such a lawsuit, which failed, before.
Here
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Victoria' secret? - 8/14/2008 8:12:09 AM
|
|
|
SonInMe1
Posts: 3396
Joined: 4/16/2005
From: my mom by God
Status: offline
|
So the stewardess has done this before...hmmmm....and it seems that rich people are now the greatest target of prejudice...by some of the reactions here.
I was in chat in Mars Hill yesterday and I made the statement that Mrs. Osteen was the victim of racism and was accused of racism and ya know what happened? Someone put me on ignore.
Hatred toward the successful I believe is the new racism in america. This lawsuit to me, proves it. Some of the reactions to the lawsuit in this thread proves it. Listen to many minority leaders..and they prove it.
Listen to any liberal and they provge it too.
I said it years ago and stories like this just prove what I said...liberalism is the bastion of prejudice today...class envy...white hatred and scapegoating...and the abuse of minorities through welfare to keep them dependant and needy.
True evil.
_____________________________
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Victoria' secret? - 8/14/2008 8:14:30 AM
|
|
|
stamper_ben
Posts: 10959
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Lone Star State
Status: offline
|
quote:
indeed, if Victoria Osteen is innocent, then how she plays this out afterwards will BE the evidence of whom they follow...
They'll probably write a book about it that will be another best seller and make millions more off it....
_____________________________
We will be known as His by the love we show one another.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Victoria' secret? - 8/14/2008 8:17:46 AM
|
|
|
SonInMe1
Posts: 3396
Joined: 4/16/2005
From: my mom by God
Status: offline
|
quote:
They'll probably write a book about it that will be another best seller and make millions more off it....
I hope so and even though I am no fan of their doctrine...I think I'll buy that book.
_____________________________
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Victoria' secret? - 8/14/2008 1:31:54 PM
|
|
|
Rufas2000
Posts: 1311
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
Hatred toward the successful I believe is the new racism in america.
Yeah because rich people are being taken away on boats to be slaves in far away lands ... oh wait.
Because rich people are not allowed to sit in front of the bus, oh wait ...
Because rich people aren't allowed to play in the same leagues as other people, oh wait ...
See what I'm getting at? Its insulting to actual victims of prejudice to claim that a few people resenting the rich and a lawsuit equals the evils of discrimination. Victoria Osteen even got a fair trial (and was better equipped to handle it due to her money) and it looks like she'll win. If she loses then perhaps some classism (not racism) snuck in.
I do not think a single white person would have switched places with a black person in the 1960s. I do not think a single poor or middle class person would not want to switch places with a rich person. That you labeled it as "class envy" shows you agree. I don't think any white people were feeling any "race envy" back then.
Rich people can do things that those with less money can only dream about. Sure there is a small group of people who resent it and occasionally an inconvenience arises that would not be a problem for a poor person (like frivolous lawsuits) but overall its a pretty nice life. If it were not, wouldn't most rich people be giving their money away? Kinda hard for a black person to get rid of his or her blackness.
If you plan to argue that you weren't saying one was as bad as the other I would ask why you chose that word. Racism is a hot button word and that is why you may have chosen to use it. So a comparison to the fruits of racism is totally appropriate.
BTW: One of my biggest pet peeves with liberals is their throwing around of hot button words like fascism, gulag, dictatorship and racist (as in every Republican is racist). I think we can express our viewpoints without the hot button words that distort reality.
< Message edited by Rufas2000 -- 8/14/2008 1:54:00 PM >
_____________________________
Be my friend!
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Victoria' secret? - 8/14/2008 2:26:08 PM
|
|
|
Rufas2000
Posts: 1311
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
yeah, she should have beem like Jesus, willing to wash someone's feet...
I guess that goes for all of us.
_____________________________
Be my friend!
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Victoria' secret? - 8/14/2008 2:43:17 PM
|
|
|
earthless
Posts: 6198
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where pigeons are wearing sweaters....
Status: online
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Rufas2000
quote:
yeah, she should have beem like Jesus, willing to wash someone's feet...
I guess that goes for all of us.
Yes, and I will keep that in mind next I am sitting in coach.
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Victoria' secret? - 8/14/2008 2:56:20 PM
|
|
|
buckifn
Posts: 1775
Joined: 5/23/2006
Status: offline
|
I think you would be kneeling on the floor if you were washing someone's feet...but maybe she was wearing white pants and the dirt would show?
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Victoria' secret? - 8/14/2008 7:36:32 PM
|
|
|
SonInMe1
Posts: 3396
Joined: 4/16/2005
From: my mom by God
Status: offline
|
quote:
Yeah because rich people are being taken away on boats to be slaves in far away lands ... oh wait.
Because rich people are not allowed to sit in front of the bus, oh wait ...
Because rich people aren't allowed to play in the same leagues as other people, oh wait ...
When has this happend in the last 40 years? I am talking about today...not 50 years ago. Its no wonder the rich are now the evil in this world when past events still create such hatreds.
quote:
Rich people can do things that those with less money can only dream about.
Its much more than covetness. Its scapegoating the rich for our problems today. Its saying the rich are the reason why there are poor people ( An actual arguement here agreed to by more than a few posters ). Its excessive punitive taxation on the rich only because the majority in this country feel its perfectly fine to steal from the rich and give to the poor.
Its the support in this thread and anti-rich sentiments, for the stewardess before the facts came out.
Its in the discussions of how much a pastor should make.
Its in every discussion about liberalism vs conservatism.....villifying the rich saying money is evil..and then saying money is the answer to poverty.
How many missions go to...Beverly Hills??
quote:
If you plan to argue that you weren't saying one was as bad as the other
I....did not make the comparison between past racisms and the new racism....you did. I will say though its probably not the best definition or use of the word. I do think the level of hatred toward the rich, the prejudice toward the rich has reached the levels of hatred toward minorities in our nation's past.
quote:
This hurts the stewardess' claims that Mrs. Osteen assaulted her (which I always have said were likely false) but it doesn't do much damage to my theory that she behaved badly that day.
So the stewardess is portrayed as a liar and has demonstrated this kind of behavior before but...you still believe she was right.....???
How come?
_____________________________
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Victoria' secret? - 8/14/2008 9:14:20 PM
|
|
|
Rufas2000
Posts: 1311
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
When has this happend in the last 40 years? I am talking about today...not 50 years ago. Its no wonder the rich are now the evil in this world when past events still create such hatreds.
It hasn't but you said that hatred of the rich is the new racism. So I have to assume the comparison to the old racism. I wouldn't have had a problem with a statement like the rich are the new scapegoat, like blacks were in America until the 1960s (and later in some ways) or Jews in Europe for centuries.
quote:
Its scapegoating the rich for our problems today.
The rich are the reason we have many of the good things we have today. I know that.
quote:
Its saying the rich are the reason why there are poor people ( An actual arguement here agreed to by more than a few posters ).
Only in the philosophical sense of the terms don't have a meaning without each other.
quote:
Its the support in this thread and anti-rich sentiments, for the stewardess before the facts came out.
I never thought the stewardess was telling the truth. I did believe that something happened due to Ms. Osteen acting arrogantly. I didn't think the stewardess created the whole thing. And judging from the witnesses testimony Mrs. Osteen wasn't particularly nice. Even her husband didn't deny that she was raising a stink abouit a stain. But I've already admitted I probably overestimated her level of bad behavior.
quote:
So the stewardess is portrayed as a liar and has demonstrated this kind of behavior before but...you still believe she was right.....???
How come?
I never believed the stewardess was "right". I said several times that the lawsuit was bogus. I just didn't think she made the whole story up. I still don't but again, I overrated the amount of truth in her story.
quote:
Its in the discussions of how much a pastor should make.
Only relevant when the pastor in question is begging for money, saying that the ministry is in dire need or when their theology is based on telling people that giving to their ministry is God's will. If a church is solvent and can pay their pastor a high salary then so be it. A workman is worth his wages.
quote:
Its in every discussion about liberalism vs conservatism.....villifying the rich saying money is evil..and then saying money is the answer to poverty.
Good point.
quote:
Its excessive punitive taxation on the rich only because the majority in this country feel its perfectly fine to steal from the rich and give to the poor.
If it is a majority its only a slight one judging from the relatively even split between Democrats & Republicans in this country. Its at a fever pitch now due to the struggling economy. When (not if, when as its cyclical) the economy improves some of this ill feeling will dissipate. But you are right that a (un)healthy dose of economic liberalism may threaten the economy's otherwise inevitable recovery. Well, I assume you believe that anyway and if you do I agree.
quote:
I will say though its probably not the best definition or use of the word. I do think the level of hatred toward the rich, the prejudice toward the rich has reached the levels of hatred toward minorities in our nation's past.
That was my point. Racism was very hurtful to the victims. I agree that the level of hatred of the rich is even in some circles but I don't think its as widespread as the racism in our past (or where would "new" racism come from if not a reference to "old" racism) and it certainly is not as hurtful to the victims of "antirichism". Most of our government officials if not all are upper class as are many of the opinion makers and agenda setters. Some (like the race pimps and the Soros' of the world) try to do the anti rich stuff but when push comes to shove they aren't going to let their own social class get pounded too much.
Also, racism is prejudice against a person for a very specific reason. Its a loaded word due to our nation's past (and the past of every other nation). But to say that "antirichism" is the growing form of prejudice in this country, that's a topic worthy of serious discussion and consideration.
quote:
Personally I think the accuser should have to pay court cost and the Olsteen's legal fees and then maybe these phony suits would stop.
I agree mostly. But there should be a process by which a lawsuit is considered frivolous. Losing a lawsuit should not be the only criteria. Also, there should be a cap. I don't think they should be liable in full if the Osteen's elect to hire a million dollar lawyer. I would hope we all agree that the ability to sue people who have truly wronged us without fear of bankrupcy should be retained. But that's details, you are absolutely right about the need to stop the frivolous lawsuits and the overfiling for the smallest offenses.
_____________________________
Be my friend!
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Victoria' secret? - 8/15/2008 10:19:19 AM
|
|
|
Dubya
Posts: 1019
Joined: 10/25/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: huskarine
Matthew 5:39
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=47&chapter=5&verse=39&version=31&context=verse
are you a preacher??? if you are, how you don't know this confounds me...
my personal view is that the Osteen's SHOULD be the first and most willing to love as Christ's representatives, they could and are able to do this by giving her money in public after the fact, and inviting her to their church...the point is love...
garbage shines compared to truth and love...
Matthew 5:39 is not intended to indicate that Christians are to be door-mats allowing others to abuse them. While we may (and should) be willing to suffer innocently for the cause of Christ, we have a responsibility as Christian citizens to stand up for law and order and justice. This is the reason, I believe, that Paul refused to be quietly let out of jail and sent out of town in Acts 16:35.
Victoria Osteen was falsely accused – she was slandered. This was her “slap in the face”. Matthew 5:39 tells us we should not retaliate when we are wronged. It does NOT say that Victoria Osteen should not defend herself in court. A better interpretation is that Victoria Osteen should not retaliate against her accuser by suing her for slander. So far, I haven’t heard of any plans for that to happen.
As far as giving this gold-digger any money is absolutely absurd and NOT supported Biblically in any way. It seems to me that this woman wants a free ride. If you want to go around quoting scripture, how about 2 Thess 3:10, “For even when we were with you, we used to give you this command: “If anyone is not willing to work, neither should he eat.””
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Victoria' secret? - 8/15/2008 10:27:06 AM
|
|
|
huskarine
Posts: 444
Joined: 7/31/2008
From: Wheaton, IL
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Dubya
quote:
ORIGINAL: huskarine
Matthew 5:39
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=47&chapter=5&verse=39&version=31&context=verse
are you a preacher??? if you are, how you don't know this confounds me...
my personal view is that the Osteen's SHOULD be the first and most willing to love as Christ's representatives, they could and are able to do this by giving her money in public after the fact, and inviting her to their church...the point is love...
garbage shines compared to truth and love...
Matthew 5:39 is not intended to indicate that Christians are to be door-mats allowing others to abuse them. While we may (and should) be willing to suffer innocently for the cause of Christ, we have a responsibility as Christian citizens to stand up for law and order and justice. This is the reason, I believe, that Paul refused to be quietly let out of jail and sent out of town in Acts 16:35.
Victoria Osteen was falsely accused – she was slandered. This was her “slap in the face”. Matthew 5:39 tells us we should not retaliate when we are wronged. It does NOT say that Victoria Osteen should not defend herself in court. A better interpretation is that Victoria Osteen should not retaliate against her accuser by suing her for slander. So far, I haven’t heard of any plans for that to happen.
As far as giving this gold-digger any money is absolutely absurd and NOT supported Biblically in any way. It seems to me that this woman wants a free ride. If you want to go around quoting scripture, how about 2 Thess 3:10, “For even when we were with you, we used to give you this command: “If anyone is not willing to work, neither should he eat.””
agreed, but i did mention all of this should be done after the fact...
no, we Christians are not doormats, and it probably would set a very bad precedent of the Osteens just giving money to any who offend them...i say just invite her to church...true wealth is there anyway... agree with you there too...
either way though, there needs to be a showing of love somewhere, and that falls on the Osteens...
let i | | |
Forum Tools
Printable Version
